back to article Larry Ellison today said really nice things about rival Amazon's cloud

Oracle’s founder and CTO Larry Ellison took to the stage for his second OpenWorld keynote today, and spent the bulk of his presentation pointing out flaws in his chief cloud rival Amazon. Amazon Web Services (AWS) has three database products running on its cloud (Redshift, Aurora and DynamoDB), and in terms of features they …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Could get interesting

    Yeah, sure, ok, they were late to the cloud. But they are here now and this battle could get interesting. I still marvel at the number of threads and throughput of Oracle/Sun hardware and in the cloud people don't really care what hardware their apps are running on. Hate to say it, but Oracle might do some damage in the cloud market and pull market share from not only AWS, but everybody else as well. Time will tell, but Oracle has a shot here and the other major cloud players need to pay attention lest they get stung a bit.

    1. Erik4872

      Re: Could get interesting

      Agreed! People think of Oracle as one of these crusty software giants like CA, Symantec, BMC, etc. that are just extracting license fees year after year from companies that are hopelessly locked into their 20 year old products. I think Oracle is definitely one of those, but they have the money to burn on developing new things also.

      I guarantee the main goal of bulking up the Oracle cloud is not so companies can run x86 IaaS stuff, but to host all of Oracle's software remotely. Adobe did this with Creative Cloud to guarantee permanent lock in and subscription revenue because they know there's no alternatives in the industry. Microsoft is doing this with Office 365 - they're making it an incredibly bad deal to buy perpetual Office licenses now. I think Oracle's plan is to make it so expensive and cumbersome to buy, license and run Oracle software on premises that companies have no choice but to buy into the cloud.

      1. ratfox Silver badge

        Re: Could get interesting

        The question is, will people want to use Oracle's software, no matter how good it is? They don't seem to have that many happy customers.

        1. dinsdale54

          Re: Could get interesting

          This is kind of self answering. People use Oracle's software despite Oracle's behaviour, not because of it. The software is good enough that Oracle can treat its customers like that.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Could get interesting

            >People use Oracle's software despite Oracle's behaviour, not because of it

            Lock in is a bigger factor... and either way a company where most customers would leave if they could is still a dead man walking.

    2. Lusty Silver badge

      Re: Could get interesting

      "Oracle might do some damage in the cloud"

      Doubtful. Oracle don't understand cloud. At all. AWS is winning not because they have a better database, but because they have a better platform. People can rewrite applications and services using the full breadth of AWS services and the same goes for Azure and soon Google as well. Oracle will need to create a "serverless" compute platform, PaaS services, and the various types of database PaaS if they are to compete.

      Oh, and he forgot to mention Amazon also offer Oracle PaaS on a true pay as you go model in their cloud for people who are locked in to that technology already. The other AWS database services are actually compatible with other databases anyway so there's very little lock-in there. But he'd know that, as a "database expert".

      1. aazmi615@gmail.com

        Re: Could get interesting

        Well put.

        Larry conveniently ignored the real power center for AWS: the PLATFORM.

        Ironic that Larry talks about being years ahead when he is still locked into the obsolete product thinking of the 20th century.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Could get interesting

        Oracle will need to create a "serverless" compute platform, PaaS services, and the various types of database PaaS if they are to compete.

        Thats all there today.

        "serverless"? - Bare metal, dedicated, shared, Linux, Windows, big data oriented.

        "PaaS services" - Maybe 20? DB's, middleware, messaging, BI

        Various types of DB? - Oracle, MySQL, Hadoop, NOSQL.

        It is a fast changing landscape but try and keep up, most of that's been out for 12-18 months.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Could get interesting

          "API Platform (Coming Soon)"

          Yup. All there today. Yup. Who needs API management in their modern apps anyway? Oh, everyone you say?

    3. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Could get interesting

      "you are locked in, baby"

      Pot, meet Kettle...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Could get interesting

        @TheVogon; I don't think "Pot, meet Kettle..." even *begins* to describe the bare-faced chutzpah of Ellison trying to throw that accusation at his rivals. (#) This is the guy whose business model essentially *is*- and has long been- to get his victims^w customers locked in to the Oracle infrastructure and then held to ransom for every penny they can get out of them.

        (#) “Build an app on Redshift and you will be running it forever on Amazon – you are locked in, baby,” he said. “So if Amazon raises its prices you better get out your checkbook.”

  2. EveryTime Silver badge

    Oracle might have a shot, but the head of a company (sorry to those Hurding Catz, you aren't in charge) doesn't spend an hour talking about a competitor they have beaten.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yeah, the dude can be a d bag and he probably knows that. There is at least one good point though and that is the incumbents have built their infrastructure on old shit and in order to improve the infrastructure, they have to upgrade it, while, like, running. This is more than hard at scale. So, those that are jumping in now can do so with platforms that are one or more iterations of Moore's Law later. Faster, smaller, lower wattage and overall better economics. The SPARC M7 chip can scale up to 512 cores, 4,096 threads and 8 terabytes (TB) of memory. How many Xeons does it take to get 4,096 threads? I would never buy a SPARC box, but I'd let my cloud provider run them to their hearts content. I just want good price/performance with security and I'm probably not the only one that looks at cloud that way. If Oracle can really deliver that, more power to them. Or, more SPARC to them....

      1. Fenton

        Slow threads

        The trouble is you load up a sparc chip with 4000 odd threads and each thread will be as slow as hell.

        Fine for very light weight threads but not heavy lifting.

        Give me lots of x86 servers any day.

      2. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

        You don't even think about upgrading components in a data center. You either rip & replace or build an entirely new DC. Far too many interdependencies and potential mismatches to even consider it. That's why the cloud players design their own hardware to begin with.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "You don't even think about upgrading components in a data center. You either rip & replace or build an entirely new DC. Far too many interdependencies and potential mismatches to even consider it. That's why the cloud players design their own hardware to begin with."

          You would expect several hardware updates / refresh cycles during the life of most datacentres.

  3. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

    Ellison slamming proprietary software... Good one, Larry!

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Ellison stating that people shopping at a competitor need to get their chequebook out ... Good one, Larry!

    2. Michael Strorm

      Better still... Ellison slamming vendor lock-in... ?!!

  4. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

    Build an app on RedshiftOracle and you will be running it forever on AmazonOracle – you are locked in, baby,” [Larry] said. “So if AmazonOracle raises its prices you better get out your checkbook.”

    FTFY

    1. Hans 1 Silver badge

      Don't repeat Ellison's bullshit, even if you change a word or three ... the fact is, if you go cloud and use open source frameworks and db's (e.g. NOT .NET, not Oracle nor SQL SERVER), you are good to go, no lock-in.

      Then again, if you are using open source, why would you want to go cloud in the first place ? If you have to, go open source ... shit, whatever you do, if time to migrate comes, go open source.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        " (e.g. NOT .NET, not Oracle nor SQL SERVER"

        Open Source is no less a lock in once you have written to target a specific DB and framework...Microsoft SQL / .Net tends to be cheaper in terms of TCO.

  5. smartypants

    I am glad Oracle want to be an AWS competitor...

    ...and it's that way around unfortunately (for Oracle).

    Whatever the merits of Oracle DB technology (and I have no experience of it), what makes AWS interesting is the breadth of services it offers.

    And as for DB technology, well there are plenty of other options running on AWS - Mongo, Dynamo DB etc...

    So if Oracle are going to try to compete with AWS and undercut their prices, well that's great news and will keep up the price pressure on AWS and its rivals.

    This Larry person does seem a bit of a nob though.

    1. Arctic fox
      Headmaster

      @smartypants "This Larry person does seem a bit of a nob though....."

      He may very well think that he is a bit of a nob (as in a cut above the rest of us mere mortals) whilst we think that he is a bit of a knob.

  6. dalek

    "Build an app on Oracle and you will be running it forever on Oracle – you are locked in, baby"

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oracle Database

    From what I've seen, the databases used by Oracle apps in Oracle's cloud are actually MySQL rather than Oracle DB.

    1. dave 81

      Re: Oracle Database

      Oracle own MySQL don't they?

      1. gv

        Re: Oracle Database

        [quote]Oracle own MySQL don't they?[/quote]

        Yes, they do, but the performance of MySQL compared to the performance of Oracle DB is an entirely different kettle of worms.

  8. Mike Shepherd
    Meh

    If you needed proof...

    This man is proof that all the money in the world can't fix ugly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If you needed proof...

      You're on an IT site, I doubt many of us were employed from casting photos.

      In fact many of my users say I should get more into telephone support, or "at least knock".

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If you needed proof...

      Looks perfectly okay to me. Were you expecting Brad Pitt or something?

      Most people here think Ellison's a bell end, but that's nothing to do with his appearance.

      FWIW, remember when Johnny Depp and his soon-to-be-estranged wife got in a spat with that Australian politician Barnaby Joyce? At one point, Depp- already starting to come across as an entitled, spoilt film star and less sympathetic than he had been in the past- accused Joyce of looking "inbred with a tomato".

      Well, so what? Coming from pretty-boy Depp, who is- or was- better looking than most people, this ironically comes across as a lot cheaper than it would from some random, average-looking nobody.

      I think Joyce missed the opportunity to turn Depp's own words against him and hit him where it hurts- his desire to be seen as a Serious Actor. His response should simply have been, "Yes, it's true, I'm an ugly bastard. I think it's quite clear to everyone that I didn't get where I am today on the basis of my looks, unlike Mr Depp."

  9. MrKrotos

    I don't know their tech at all and will never try it (other than community mysql), but one thing that always scares me away is Company A flaming Company B at Company A's keynote. All that time trying to put Company B down when you could tell us about all the fantastic features of YOUR product.....

    What? you don't have much to say? Thought so......

    1. F Seiler

      I have only worked for a year with an oracle db and generally are not a db guy (more image processing, physics simulation, hardware control etc), but what i gathered back then was oracle can be a beast in db performance. Features ... errr, dunno but in my eyes they are all about being fast at relational queries.

      A) how do you brag about that other than comparing to how others do on that very same field

      B) i can see them actually doing extremely well in /that/ field also in the cloud, but hypy things like big data seems to be about unstructured data.

      dunno why; the things i would guess the most valuable for business intelligence, where probably the money lies, /should/ be structured to have value. IOW, if oracle manages to offer relevant help at BI also with "AI" (tho i still shudder at the thought of "pretrained" AI models to use in BI) they should be set up good to help others make money (in contrast to sink money into hype).

      Disclaimer of course i'm no expert on any of this, just seeing +/- from the sidelines what some few companies in one very specific field (medtech) are interested in/struggle with, apart from the -inherent to that field- "how do we remain or even get compliant to the gazillon and ever changing regulations".

  10. CAPS LOCK Silver badge

    Hahaha, the Streisand effect at work...

    "Don't look at that other company's product, it is all the rubbish, don't look, don't look"

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It is oft said that Oracle hostages, not customers.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      So they are based in Stockholm?

  12. TVU Silver badge

    "Larry Ellison today said really nice things about rival Amazon's cloud"...before suing them as part of a pointless litigation case.

    ^ Now that is more like typical Oracle behaviour these days *sigh*

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