back to article London's Met Police has missed the Windows XP escape deadline

London’s Metropolitan Police has missed its deadline to dump Windows XP, with tens of thousands of copper still running the risky OS. The force, on the front line against terrorist threats and criminals in the capital city, is running Windows XP on around 27,000 PCs. At last count, in May 2015, the Met had a total of 35,640 …

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  1. djstardust Silver badge

    Government investment in the Police

    Is non-existent.

    We had an "open doors" day trip round our local plod station and it is archaic.

    CCTV on video tapes of such poor quality you can't even see anything, tiny 4:3 computer monitors you can't even buy on eBay any more and a building literally untouched since it was built in the sixties and falling apart.

    Seems this country needs to change it's spending priorities or nothing will change soon.

    1. Stuart 22

      Re: Government investment in the Police

      "CCTV on video tapes of such poor quality you can't even see anything, tiny 4:3 computer monitors you can't even buy on eBay any more and a building literally untouched since it was built in the sixties and falling apart."

      Well if there is a terrrorist connection then money is no object. The biggest BMW X5 you can get - oh and really snazzy machine guns and lovely camouflage clothing (bit obvious in the average London street). As for what we spend on security services - it is astronomical - go check out the earth station they built just north of Bude which would have cost more than putting a Beagle on Mars.

      But security of all the information they gather - well XP is just the magnet any self-respecting hacker would be ashamed not to penetrate. They have created the most delicious honey pot in the computing universe.

      Its unbelievable that they must have been buying perfectly good Win7 kit for years and downgrading it to XP knowing this would happen.

      1. Tony S

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        "go check out the earth station they built just north of Bude "

        You're mistaken; there's nothing there.

        Seriously; according to the authorities, there is nothing there and never has been.

        It doesn't matter what you think you see, you are definitely incorrect.

        If you give them the location, they will tell you that it is just a patch of open ground above the beach; nothing to see, please move along.

        1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          @Tony s

          RE: "You're mistaken; there's nothing there {Earth station Bude}"

          You're going on a list for showing interest in it, and a very special list for showing cynicism.

          1. Captain DaFt

            Re: Government investment in the Police

            And you're going on a list for talking about the lists...

            Damn! Now I am too!

            1. Mark 85 Silver badge
              Big Brother

              Re: Government investment in the Police

              Then we're all going on a list for reading about this....

    2. Ian 7
      Trollface

      Re: Government investment in the Police

      Haven't we got an extra £350million a week sloshing around somewhere now...? Ahem.

      1. Ragarath
        Coat

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        Haven't we got an extra £350million a week sloshing around somewhere now...? Ahem.

        No yet, we have to leave first, see icon.

        1. Trainee grumpy old ****

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          >> Haven't we got an extra £350million a week sloshing around somewhere now...? Ahem.

          > No yet, we have to leave first, see icon.

          And hasn't it already been promised to the NHS?

      2. Primus Secundus Tertius Silver badge

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        Not yet.

        We voted out but we are not yet actually out.

        We will probably need that £350m per week to fight all the vexatious lawsuits brought by frustrated Remainers.

        1. Hans 1 Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          Good luck with that ... look at the state of the NHS, The Police force ... compare with France or, $deity forbid, Germany ... and you will understand ... those £350m per week will be for further tax breaks for our rich friends, you would not want to make the poor poorer, would you, hey ?

          No, it is NOT meant to be funny ... call me when you're back from Wonderland, will ya ?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        Haven't we got an extra £350million a week sloshing around somewhere now...?

        Sorry no; that's been promised to the NHS.

        1. ps2os2

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          Now the Brits are BREXIT you should have plenty of quid. Are you going to hold the pols to their promises?

      4. Stevie Silver badge

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        Well spotted Ian 7.

        We really need a leopard icon.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        "Haven't we got an extra £350million a week sloshing around somewhere now...?"

        No, because that figure was pure bullshit shamelessly used by the leave campaign to trick the voting population. What they didn't tell anyone is that a lot of that money already comes back to the UK in the form of numerous subsidies and grants and other forms of funding.

        Therefore once out of the EU, gov.uk will have to use the majority of that 350mil to fill many budget holes opened up by cuts in EU funding. Especially to the scientific community in the UK which currently gets LOTS of funding from the EU.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        No that money is going to the NHS, Boris and Gove said so!

        Thing is there is money around but it's in different pots. It's a problem to be seen in many government departments, money available for one thing but not another and they can't be transferred across.

        1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

          350m

          No that money is going to the NHS, Boris and Gove said so!

          None of the polly tishuns ever even considered paying some of the national debt off :(

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Government investment in the Police

      Well they could start by stopping fiddling the taxman by giving the Top Brass "blue light" cars. That would give a couple of quid back.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        But not the biggest waste of money in policing, that has to be the number of forces in the UK (over 40!) all with their own, cars, uniforms, IT, HR, high paid chief constables + deputies, etc Total utter waste. Then they complain about "cuts" to front line policing. Plenty of saving to be had.

        1. boltar Silver badge

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          "But not the biggest waste of money in policing, that has to be the number of forces in the UK (over 40!) all with their own, cars, uniforms, IT, HR, high paid chief constables + deputies, etc Total utter waste."

          Not really. Even if there was a national police force like in france (though to confuse things they have the gendarmerie too), there would still be regional divisions with a regional controller. The only difference would be the names and a few quid saved on bulk buying of uniforms. I quite like the fact than in england and wales we have seperate forces, because if there's corruption in one it generally doesn't taint any of the others.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Government investment in the Police

            regional would still be cheaper than what we have now.

            Just down here in SW there's, Devon & Cornwall, Avon and Somerset and Dorset forces. So that's according to

            https://www.police-information.co.uk/policepay.htm over £750k just in BASIC pay to the chief and deputy constables in those 3 forces. Replace with one regional chief + deputy and pay them a little bit more, ad that's just 3 forces out of 40 odd

        2. Adam 52 Silver badge

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          "...all with their own, cars, uniforms, IT, HR"

          Just to correct this bit, a large number of forces have joint arrangements - Hants and Thames Valley share cars and IT, as do the Midlands forces, for example.

          ...and some of those forces are privately funded, so we don't really care about those (CNC, the various Ports police and Universities)

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Mushroom

      Re: Government investment in the Police

      "Seems this country needs to change it's spending priorities or nothing will change soon"

      To right, stop spending so much on the Police and spend a hell of a lot more on crime prevention.

      Youth clubs are closing all over the place,

      Drug rehab is massively underfunded.

      Adult education services are being slashed,

      Social care is at breaking point.

      Still better to give them a X6 rather than keep 50 kids of the street for a year.

      1. boltar Silver badge

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        "To right, stop spending so much on the Police and spend a hell of a lot more on crime prevention.

        Youth clubs are closing all over the place,"

        I didn't have any youth clubs near me when I was a kid, but I didn't compensate by going around nicking cars or robbing people. I'm tired of this someone-else-is-to-blame mentality when dealing with youth crime. Some kids are just little shits. End of. Most grow out of it , other don't, but they'll be shits no matter what toys or activities you throw at them.

        "Drug rehab is massively underfunded."

        Good. Better the money is spent on people with non self inflicted problems instead. You want to take drugs? Well suffer the consequences whether that be prison or dead in an alley.

        "Adult education services are being slashed,"

        If people didn't piss about at school they wouldn't need education as adults. They've had one lot of free education paid for by the state, I see no reason why the state (read: taxpayers) should pay for a 2nd lot free for the bone idle. There are always books, assuming they can read.

        1. The First Dave

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          "I didn't have any youth clubs near me when I was a kid, but I didn't compensate by going around nicking cars or robbing people."

          I didn't either, and I _did_ ...

          1. boltar Silver badge

            Re: Government investment in the Police

            "I didn't either, and I _did_ ..."

            Then you were an anti social little tosser who needed a good kicking. Hopefully someone gave you one.

            1. The First Dave

              Re: Government investment in the Police

              Sorry, did i forget the humour flag?

          2. ps2os2

            Re: Government investment in the Police

            This sounds eerily like the US and Afghanistan back in the 1980's. Lot's of money for the "police" but not enough for the schools.

        2. John G Imrie Silver badge

          If people didn't piss about at school they wouldn't need education as adults.

          And if their jobs didn't get off shored they wouldn't need retraining either.

        3. VBF
          Thumb Up

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          At last - someone who tells it like it is!

          "Some kids are just little shits. End of."

          You forgot to add that some parents ought to take their responsibilities seriously too!

        4. Patrick R
          Holmes

          Re: Government investment in the Police

          " You want to take drugs? Well suffer the consequences whether that be prison or dead in an alley."

          People don't go in prison for taking drugs, most the time they go for things they've done because of taking drugs, you forgot those consequences in your phrase. Maybe those are the consequences you'd prefer not to see.

    5. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      XP upgrade

      Sam Tyler's going to fix it, of course Gene Hunt will bitch about the whole upgrade thing so Sam will do it while Gene's down at the pub on his smoke break.

    6. Nolveys Silver badge

      Re: Government investment in the Police

      Government investment in the Police Is non-existent.

      At least taxes and government debt in the UK are exceptionally low.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Government investment in the Police

      Former plod here - to record interviews we used cassette tapes... yep... cassette tapes.. that was back in 2008... I'm sure they still use them. You want to type up your arrest reports on computer? Nope, you hand write them. Their single sign on was the best... you could tell it was a cobbled together copy/paste function since as you were logging into CRIS or CRIMINT or whatever application you had to use, you could see the pop up screens for authentication being populated with username/password... I imagine NTLM wasn't available at the time. Maybe in a few years....

      1. Graham Dawson

        Re: Government investment in the Police

        There is actually a sound reason for using cassette tapes. They're robust, they're simple and they're reliable. Digital recording can still just magically disappear (the more general magical disappearing properties of evidence contrary to a case notwithstanding), whereas a tape is bloody difficult to wipe effectively.

        It's the same reason solicitors still tend to use fax machines for important legal documents, and why hansard is printed on vellum.

        1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

          fax machines

          It's the same reason solicitors still tend to use fax machines.

          dont get me started . Tradition , stubbornness amd an unwillingness to change is why people still use them. Particulalary in finance depts

          I still see people printing stuff out , then faxing it - when eFAX IS AVAILABLE!!

    8. MotionCompensation

      Re: Government investment in the Police

      For a moment I thought you were talking about the police in my country. A third world country in a deepening economic crisis.

  2. bcollie

    Shows officers are spending too much time with paperwork when they need a desktop for nearly every officer and back office worker.

  3. DailyLlama
    FAIL

    Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

    Best to go to 7

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

      Windows 7 only has 3.5 years of extended support left.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

        If you want timely and reliable patches, 10's the only version getting any attention and only the bleeding edge anniversary edition at that. MS never were terribly good at supporting anything except the very latest version of any given product. They are now officially not even doing that, since everything is now "rolling release" (or "beta as a service").

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

          And anyone who doesn't subscribe to that model are BAAStards?

          1. Simon Harris Silver badge

            Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

            "BAAStards"

            BaaS - Bugs as a Service?

        2. MAF
          Linux

          Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

          "MS never were terribly good at supporting anything except the very latest version of any given product."

          Sadly though, that also applies to hardware - hence some of the problems with legacy kit and win 10 Anniversary Edition (or A&E)... Not to mention drivers for associated peripherals such as printers & scanners. Before long the hardware bill can spiral more out of control than an ecstasy-fueled joy-rider :-(

          (Obligatory Linux icon ahead of massed cries to ditch MS )

        3. King Jack Silver badge
          Stop

          Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

          Windows 10 is spyware. Do you really want plod to give details of people, crimes, etc to M$? Remember every keystroke and search is logged and sent back home.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

        "Windows 7 only has 3.5 years of extended support left."

        better 'go Linux' instead, then. it will save money, allow local companies to support regional police departments, and NOT send a bunch of money to Micro-shaft.

        I'm sure cops are smart/savvy enough to switch over. The pain is limited by certain distros, like Mint with Cinnamon. And you probably won't need to buy 'all new hardware' either.

        (more money left over to keep cops on the street catching bad guys)

        1. soulrideruk Bronze badge

          Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

          I hear this all the time, left and right about magically saving money by switching to Linux, but no one ever explains how expensive it can be, or how hard it can be, to find replacements for professional software on Linux for a serious creative computer user, a company or public entity.

          https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=10679

          The thread above points out the very pertinent fact that there isn't the consumer demand for my 'high end kit' on Linux, so the chances of that ever being supported was slim to none. That was 3 years ago, and there is still no Linux driver for my hardware. I've had the hardware for 6 years now, and there is absolutely no reason to replace it.

          There is also no Linux DAW like Sonar, which I currently use, or even old Cubase, which I used to use. While there is no cost on Linux to replace the software, there is no single fully functional DAW on Linux, most audio studios are made up of a multitude of modular options. That's all well and dandy, but I like a single monolithic does it all interface, which is why I pay for one.

          Unity also is still in Alpha testing with it's editor, moving my games to an alpha editor is not really an option, but of course, over time this issue should be resolved when unity gets a proper Linux release.

          There are lots of reasons why moving to Linux can be very costly, especially when professional systems are involved. It's not always as easy as, an older relative who is a facebook user and can view it in any browser on any OS.

          A lot of specific and dedicated hardware and software was created windows only and it is not always easy to find a drop in Linux replacement, despite it getting much better.

          I do run Linux on a laptop, and looked seriously at swapping my main, but I cannot justify it yet from the Audio/Unity aspects, nor cutting easy access to my huge game collection, which only a small percentage is Linux compatible.

    2. Gray
      Devil

      Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

      1. XP works... and keeps on working. That's evil?

      2. MS has defeated Win7 security patch updates by destroying trust in the content.

      3. Untrusted security patching: 7 = XP. Welcome to the wilderness!

      4. Windows 8.1? What's that?

      5. Windows = HIV. Practice safe sex.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

        If by "keeps on working" you mean "lets man+dog gain unauthorised access" then yes, you're right.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 8.1 is NOT an upgrade...

      Best to go to 7

      The best thing would be to do what the French Gendarmes did which was to completely change to Linux everywhere in the country.

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