back to article Microsoft wins landmark Irish data slurp warrant case against the US

Microsoft has won a landmark legal action against the US government over protecting the privacy of non-US citizens on non-US servers. The appeals court decision invalidates a key legal tool the US government uses to apply extraterritorially. The software company voluntarily put itself in contempt of court by challenging Uncle …

Page:

  1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

    Common sense prevailed?

    *Dies in surprise & shock*

    1. kain preacher Silver badge

      Re: Common sense prevailed?

      Common sense naw. Follow the money. If they don't rule for MS this will certain sector of the US economy , Sure you might not like them but this would of screwed over apple,google,Face book and just about every tech company that wants to do business in Europe.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Common sense prevailed?

        Fuck me, has an IQ regression beam hit the earth.

        "Sure you might not like them but this would HAVE screwed over apple".

        Fucking hell fire, If a CHILD did that on a SAT test, they would be dumped in the remedial English class.

        As an English speaking adult, no doubt who received a free 11 year education, you should know fucking better.

        /Rant over and yes, it gets right on my fucking man tits.

        1. kain preacher Silver badge

          Re: Common sense prevailed?

          So I'm dyslexic with a tumor on that part of the brain that affects how I see grammar.Go fuck your self

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Common sense prevailed? @Kain Preacher

            Bullshit.

            Claiming what you claim is an insult on genuinely dyslexic folks and those with brain tumours.

            What you did was purely down to stupidity.

            1. m0rt Silver badge

              Re: Common sense prevailed?

              Focus, people.

              Microsoft have, ahem, scored a victory for privacy.

              Surely we should focus on ripping that one to shreds?

            2. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

              Re: Common sense prevailed? @Kain Preacher

              Now now, girls.

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Common sense prevailed?

          I see your rant and raise you a pedantic critique of your own text, because Muphry's law requires it.

          "Fuck me, has an IQ regression beam hit the earth."

          That sentence appears to be a question and, whether it is rhetorical or not, requires a question mark at the end. I would even accept an interrobang if you were feeling creative.

          "Fucking hell fire, If a CHILD did that on a SAT test, they would be dumped in the remedial English class."

          Capitalised first character of "if" after a comma, which should likely be a full stop.

          Arguably the "a" before SAT should be "an", depending on whether you consider it to be pronounced the same way as the word sat or letter by letter "es ay te".

          "As an English speaking adult, no doubt who received a free 11 year education, you should know fucking better."

          Given that "no doubt" is really a clause added purely to the strengthen the intensity of the sentence, I would suggest that it should appear after the "who".

          Otherwise your criticism of the OP is sound.

          6/10 see me.

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Common sense prevailed?

            "purely to the strengthen the intensity"

            <sniggers behind hand>

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Common sense prevailed?

            Whilst I will happily admit I make grammatical errors, transposing "have" and "of" is not strictly a error in grammar. It is purely a lack of intelligence. Just like people who say "axe him if that's right" as opposed to "ask".

            Put it this way, candidate A and candidate B are absolutely matched for a job vacancy, one candidate, however, does not know the difference between "have" and "of". Which one would YOU give the job to.

            1. Pomgolian
              Holmes

              Re: Common sense prevailed?

              Grammar.

              It's the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.

            2. Phil W

              Re: Common sense prevailed?

              "Put it this way, candidate A and candidate B are absolutely matched for a job vacancy, one candidate, however, does not know the difference between "have" and "of". Which one would YOU give the job to."

              The one that didn't feel the need to point out someone else's single misuse of those two words in a tirade of expletives, when the conversation in question didn't call for it and didn't necessitate perfect syntax. More specifically, not you!

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Common sense prevailed?

                Forums and comment sections are tend to be written as we speak. It isn't a formal letter to a customer but a conversation. Get over it.

                Especially as many people on the internet don't have English as their first language we've all learnt to get on and just look at what's written, what the context is and what people are likely saying. Moaning about grammar doesn't make you look smart it just makes you look grumpy.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Common sense prevailed?

          Interesting rant that goes after the person but attempts to avoid the substance of the comment, probably because it was spot on.

          If the DoJ would have won this, it would have created precedent that data is not safe anywhere in the world if held by a US company.

          The brutal irony is that one Microsoft service would have been outright in breach of EU privacy laws even though it pretended to be in the EU, but I guess now Privacy Shield has been agreed we can go back to ignoring the reality in favour of what is a political fix.

          In principle, it depends on what your needs are how you read this verdict (and the Privacy Shield thing). If you're looking for avoiding liability risk, you're now again golden. However, if you DO need proper privacy, be aware that a precedent does not make a law..

          But, fear not, I found another Microsoft service that is still very much in breach. Flagrantly so, actually, and it has been for quite a few years, and they got rather cagey when I started asking questions. So I'll ask them again, but this time formally, with a copy to the relevant Data Protection offices. Just because I like being a pest when it comes to rights, and they're worth it..

          1. William 3 Bronze badge

            Re: Common sense prevailed?

            I'm selling handbags.

            Too bad.

            Seems like everyone already has one.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Common sense prevailed?

              >I'm selling handbags.

              >Too bad.

              >Seems like everyone already has one.

              Maybe you could branch out into dummies? Been a few spat out recently and you wouldn't want to suck on a used one (fnaar!)

      2. Big-nosed Pengie

        Re: Common sense prevailed?

        "ommon sense naw. Follow the money. If they don't rule for MS this will certain sector of the US economy , Sure you might not like them but this would of screwed over apple,google,Face book and just about every tech company that wants to do business in Europe."

        Could we have an English translation, please?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Common sense prevailed?

      Hit it, Weird Al!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    this ain't over yet

    not by a long chalk.

    Uncle Sam does not like to be told 'keep the feck off the data in the Emerald Isle'.

    This ruling may apply to the whole of the EU so that includes us for the time being.

    What's the betting that the new PM lets the US spooks have every bit of data stored on the UK as soon as we apply for article 50.

    Did no one mention this during the referendum campaign?

    I wonder why not eh?

    What price BREXIT eh? Looking like it is gonna be expensive, very expensive.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: this ain't over yet

      I wonder what a landwar in Ireland looks like.....

      1. Timpatco

        Re: this ain't over yet

        Ignoramus - you must be a yank.

      2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. Geoffrey W Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: I wonder what a landwar in Ireland looks like.....

          RE: "mountains of leprechaun shit."

          And fucking* green, every fucking where.

          * Don't forget to use the F word as much as possible when making offensive Irish stereotypes. The Irish swear a lot. "What a lovely fucking day it is, to be sure, to be sure."

      3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: this ain't over yet

        I wonder what a landwar in Ireland looks like.....

        Hmm... downvotes.

        Not sure whether by Brits who want to invade again - this time for good, Yanks who remember Vietnam, US Irish who don't want to drown their ancestors'' island in Agent Orange, Yanks who know nothing, Brits pining for the Empire on which the Sun Never Sets, Scots getting a sour feeling when somebody mentions an invasion, or just P.U.T.I.N. downvoting everthing to give everyone a hard time?

        1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

          Re: this ain't over yet

          Or just people who disagree with whatever the hell it is you're saying. Stop questioning down votes. Its just asking to be down voted some more. And stop trolling. That's just asking for down votes too. Wouldn't catch me trolling, no sirree, nuh uh, no way..

        2. dajames Silver badge

          Re: this ain't over yet

          "I wonder what a landwar in Ireland looks like....."

          Hmm... downvotes.

          Perhaps because there have been land wars in Ireland, most people know what they looked like, and we (for various more and less exclusive values of "we") are still living with the after-effects, over 300 years later.

          Those who will not learn history are doomed to step in it, and all that.

          ... Agent Orange ...

          ... would, in this case, be a Protestant Unionist spy.

          1. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

            Re: this ain't over yet

            Glad to see I'm not the only commentard from the occupied six counties.

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: this ain't over yet

              "Glad to see I'm not the only commentard from the occupied six counties."

              It's as well to remember that if there hadn't been partition the consequence would undoubtedly have been a war of secession. I've often wondered whether that might have been the more stable long-term outcome but it would certainly have been bloody. I don't know enough about modern Irish history (as far as I'm concerned modern is anything later than, say, Early Iron Age) to work out whether this would have replaced the Irish civil war or whether it would have resulted in a 3-way war as it would have been in a similar time-frame.

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: this ain't over yet

          "Not sure whether by Brits who want to invade again"

          One of those downvotes was from someone who spent many years there during the IRA/UVF campaigns and has seen the consequences at close quarters. That's "seen" as in having helped dig up the occasional murder victim or help identify very badly burned remains (Google La Mon for details).

          Some of us know very well what a land war is like in Ireland. It's not the land that gets hurt.

      4. aregross
        Facepalm

        Re: this ain't over yet

        "I wonder what a landwar in Ireland looks like....."

        It'll be fine, as long as you don't mistake leprechauns for Pokemon

    2. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: this ain't over yet

      The new PM is not going to let the US have every bit of data taken from UK citizens.

      There simply isn't the bandwidth between us or computing power in the world to do anything with it.

    3. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Re: this ain't over yet

      You're right. It ain't over by a long shot. There's the Supreme Court and if they rule in favor MS, then Congress will amend the law... and the fight will start all over again. Everyone else in the world is just cannon fodder for the TLA's and FLA's at this point.

    4. Ledswinger Silver badge

      Re: this ain't over yet

      Did no one mention this during the referendum campaign?

      Err, because Brexit doesn't make a blind bit of difference, perchance?

      GCHQ and the UK Home Secretary <insert name of vacuous arts graduate here> gave no heed to international data protection before Brexit, and they won't afterwards. It therefore follows that if there's some unforeseen reversion event and we don't invoke article 50, the UK government will still use either straightforward lies, deception, or whatever get out clauses allow them to continue to channel all data passing through the UK to the NSA.

      To believe that the federalist super-statists of Brussels have you best interests at heart is to rather ignore the misery those same people are joyously inflicting on southern europe in the name of the same goal of consolidation to a single euro-sludge mega nation.

    5. DougS Silver badge

      It is not only over, it was always over

      Had they been / if they are ruled against after all the appeals are exhausted, or congress stupidly passes a law to "fix" this situation, all Microsoft needs to do is create an Irish subsidiary to own the datacenters and be responsible for the data. That subsidiary would have a contract with Microsoft USA that allows Microsoft USA access to the data for their business purposes.

      Heck, they could even go so far as to IPO that subsidiary in Ireland so Microsoft itself doesn't own any part of it. How could the US enforce its laws on an Irish company? What's next, try to enforce their laws on Irish pubs? The Irish company could just toss the subpoenas in the trash because the US would have no way to enforce them unless they want to stage a military invasion of Ireland.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It is not only over, it was always over

        @DougS

        "Had they been / if they are ruled against after all the appeals are exhausted, or congress stupidly passes a law to "fix" this situation, all Microsoft needs to do is create an Irish subsidiary to own the datacenters and be responsible for the data. That subsidiary would have a contract with Microsoft USA that allows Microsoft USA access to the data for their business purposes."

        It already is owned by a Microsoft subsidiary. That's what opening an office in another country means; setting up a local company there and registering it. You can't just go to another country, buy an office building and start doing business unregistered with the local government.

        The US has a habit of using threatened penalties on a business trading in the US to force compliance by a subsidiary in another country. That would have been supremely distasteful had they been allowed to do this in this case.

        However the same practise has been very successful in imposing a range of (recently relaxed) economic sanctions against Iran. The line was if you want to bank in the US, you'd better not be trading with Iran, or be trading with someone else who is trading with Iran. Most banks throughout the world weighed up the profit of trading with Iran vs the guaranteed enormous loss if caught out by the US, and decided to not trade with Iran. Including pretty much all of the Middle Eastern banks.

      2. ITS Retired
        Flame

        Re: It is not only over, it was always over

        "The Irish company could just toss the subpoenas in the trash because the US would have no way to enforce them unless they want to stage a military invasion of Ireland."

        Don't be giving our government any ideas. We're gearing up to install a female war monger.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: this ain't over yet

      The ruling has nothing to do with BREXIT. Or even Brexit. It restricts the scope of the Stored Communications Act to US territories, and rules that it cannot be used outside US territories.

      I'm so sorry you lost but it is time to act your age and get over it.

  3. Leeroy Bronze badge

    Well done

    Microsoft just got a gold star from me ! Talk about sticking it to the man !

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well done

      But alas even though the judge is American and most of Microsoft management/legal team is American most people on here will once again blast 300+ million people because of our government of the 1%ers for the 1%ers with the peons having to pick between two different only in rhetoric 1%er clubs.

      1. lucki bstard

        Re: Well done

        Well A/C, you can always emigrate. Leave the land where your government oppresses you and head somewhere new. I believe that was the idea some 300+ years ago..

        1. ecofeco Silver badge

          Re: Well done

          "Well A/C, you can always emigrate. Leave the land where your government oppresses you and head somewhere new. I believe that was the idea some 300+ years ago."

          I would in a heartbeat if I had the money.

        2. DougS Silver badge

          "You can always emigrate"

          Care to provide some alternatives for places to live where the government does NOT oppress you? Between Canada, UK, Australia and New Zealand there's plenty of oppression to be had. The rest of the EU is no better. China's even worse. Russia is more "free" in the sense of more anarchy, but it is only free from oppression until you piss off one of Putin's favorites and then you simply disappear. The Middle East is even worse. I suppose a lot of Africa is free if you're in the right place and have enough money to afford a personal army to keep you safe.

      2. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Well done

        most people on here will once again blast 300+ million people because of our government of the 1%ers for the 1%ers with the peons having to pick between two different only in rhetoric 1%er clubs.

        Who keeps electing them? Tooth fairies? Good candidates run but they really never the votes because gay lover commienism!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Well done

          >never the votes because gay lover commienism!

          Sadly the worst mistake in our history was not letting those states leave the union and form yet another 3rd world paradise south of us exporting little but perhaps tobacco, cotton and unskilled economic refugees.

  4. Mage Silver badge
    Big Brother

    Well, this is good.

    Finally the USA realises the people outside the borders are not aliens, but foreigners, humans, with their own Governments and laws, even when the USA doesn't like them.

    It's not like the USA is at war with Austria, Sweden, Ireland or Switzerland, all I think neutral countries in different ways.

    Theresa May & Amber Rudd can make their own arrangements with CIA and FBI in a couple of years time.

    1. asdf Silver badge

      Re: Well, this is good.

      >Theresa May & Amber Rudd can make their own arrangements with CIA and FBI in a couple of years time.

      You mean MI5 and MI6 will tell May how it will be as the 5 eyes continue business as usual.

    2. Preston Munchensonton

      Re: Well, this is good.

      Finally the USA realises the people outside the borders are not aliens, but foreigners, humans, with their own Governments and laws, even when the USA doesn't like them.

      Not to be pendantic, but the United States of America might realize this, but there no chance in hell that the full force of the US government recognizes anything other than how they want it, when they want it. They still have a lot of coercive power available to get their way and it will cost MS and others a lot more in legal fees to rein that it.

  5. Anonymous Vulture
    Go

    Things I never thought I would say....

    Hurrah for Microsoft!

    That being said, if the United States Government really wants that data they will get it. Ideally that will be through a formal request to the Irish Government where it will wind its way through the various courts. More likely it will be a formal request to GCHQ to obtain said data and then share it back under some sort of Five Eyes agreement.

    Then of course if the data is to be used in a criminal prosecution someone has to take the time to fabricate and obfuscate how the data was actually obtained but that is just a minor detail if the desire is great.

    1. Wommit

      Re: Things I never thought I would say....

      "That being said, if the United States Government really wants that data they will get it. Ideally that will be through a formal request to the Irish Government where it will wind its way through the various courts."

      The US government has always had this option, it simply tried to avoid using it because it would have had to produce evidence suitable for the Irish courts to grant a warrant. That level of evidence probably hasn't existed now, or previously.

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019