back to article Tech firms reel from Leave's Brexit win

Tech firms are reeling at British voters’ decision to leave the single European market. Firms are rattled as Gartner has forecast that Britain’s tech buyers will now stop spending in 2016 and 2017, turning earlier growth numbers negative. Also of concern, hiring of EU workers, uncertainty over VAT levels and possible new …

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Really?

Give it a month or two, the markets will settle down, sterling will strengthen again, people will exit gold, Europeans will reinvest in our economy and it'll be business as usual. I can't think of a single time that Gartner has been remotely right about anything, so I'm not inclined to start believing them now. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Postponing an order with a large FX exposure right now is thoroughly prudent. Cancelling all foreign expenditure for the next two years would be just plain stupid. Still, there is a high degree of stupidity to be had, mostly in the consulting industry.

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Re: Really?

Do us a favour... Come back and revisit this post in a couple of years.....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Really?

...and you too. If you're still viable.

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Linux

Re: Really?

I agree that all of these hysterics are just nonsense. While the current market corrections are due to a general level of conservatism and risk adversity, that same conservatism will push everyone away from doing anything too stupid. The people with the money want the status quo maintained as much as possible. This will not be an "ugly divorce". The elites don't want it to impact their pocketbook.

The fear mongering is just people pushing their personal agenda.

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Alien

"where this leaves us in Britain"

Leaving, mostly, and taking our skills with us.

Auf wiedersehen, pets.

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Re: Really?

"This will not be an "ugly divorce". The elites don't want it to impact their pocketbook."

I hope you are right, but I am not entirely sure about that. The fear is that if the UK gets to good a deal in leaving (in beneficial trade deals for instance) it will encourage other EU countries to seek an exit too. Already a majority of the Dutch wants a referendum on a Nexit, with 48% wanting out, 42% in, the rest undecided.

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Re: "where this leaves us in Britain"

Take ball, go home, complain that you're no longer part of the game, wonder why nobody else gives a toss.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Really?

I think you are under the mistaken belief that politicians are actually in charge - their paymasters in Big Business will ensure that no-one does anything stupid to prevent them from making money.

It is in the best interests of all to ensure that nothing interrupts the flow of money between the EU and the UK.

It is true that the UK's exit from the EU will be seen as an encouragement though, as even some Germans are a little envious that we made our escape.

If the EU wanted us to stay so badly, then they should have given Mr Chamberlain - sorry, Mr Cameron - a better deal when negotiating.

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Re: Really?

Why do you think Big Business would give a shit about the UK?

If you subscribe to that view of business, then logically, they'll simply leave and let the UK go to hell. No skin off their nose.

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Holmes

Re: Really?

I remember reading in 1992 that the UK was "doomed! doomed I say!" for not getting the Euro. The UK was to go down in flames within 2-3 years. It was all over the press at the time.

So no, the earth will still spin and the UK will do fine without Europe, the UK is not great because of the EU, it is great because the people in it is great, it is their hard work that make the UK possible, not some self serving bureaucratic monster in Brussels.

Freedom has a cost and it is always scary at first, but surely pays lots of big dividends, a life of servitude is a life where you can not decide what's best for you.

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Re: Really?

Spot on! we live in 2016 not 1980, does Spain want to lose the UK as a customer for their produce? does Italy? This is just an example though it is the same with the rest of the EU.

I'm sure that the EU will implode sooner or later (it happens to any entity that tries to plan the economy) and when that happens there will be a new agreement to go back to some form of the old common market, which the EU should have always been and nothing else.

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Re: Really?

I agree with not believing everything Gartner writes and predicts but believing that the opposite is the truth I would find equally silly. The dice is cast, and now as fast forward as possible.

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Re: Really?

"Cameron - a better deal when negotiating." Why would the EU give the UK a better deal than for other EU countries. Imagine they gave France a better deal than the UK has, wow, what a noise that would create in the UK. Cameron probably got a bit more than he was able to sell in the UK.

Are you spoiled prats living in the past.

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That giant sucking sound...

... is the sound of all the talent & capital leaving the UK to work in places with markets that actually matter.

If you think any large business cares about an isolated market of 55 million, you would be sadly mistaken. It's fun to be delusional, then reality bites.

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Re: Really?

The EU doesn't give a rat's arse about Spain. Germany on the other hand......

If you look at how much DE sells here and compare that to the opposite direction, they really would be cutting off their nose to spite their face by getting into a trade spat.

As the EU commission's answer to German industry saying "Jump" is invariably "Yessir, how high?", the outcome here is a foregone conclusion.

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Re: Really?

Spot on. What you're seeing right now is the speculators filling their boots. This is courtesy of the FUD from the remain camp supplying enough by way of market nervousness to make market manipulation easy.

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Re: That giant sucking sound...

No, the world's fifth largest (national) economy, not at all worth targeting!

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Re: That giant sucking sound...

No, the world's fifth largest (national) economy, not at all worth getting out of bed for.

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Re: That giant sucking sound...

Only the world's fifth largest (national) economy, not at all worth getting out of bed for.

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Re: Really?

Elites pushing their personal agenda is how we got into this mess and they're still there nicely set up to enrich themselves at our expense. I rarely agree with politician but Cameron was right about"Boris does what's good for Boris"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Really?

Imagine? And Greece didn't get a better deal to stay?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: That giant sucking sound...

So if this is purely about being in Europe then why did they choose to base themselves in England instead of other parts of Europe at the time when we were in the EU? There's more to that choice than merely being in Europe. America isn't in Europe, China isn't in Europe, Japan isn't in Europe, etc. They all trade with Europe. We will too.

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Re: That giant sucking sound...

"There's more to that choice than merely being in Europe. America isn't in Europe, China isn't in Europe, Japan isn't in Europe, etc. "

Well, if you are looking to establish yourself in the large EU market, you aren't very likely to choose the UK now, are you?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: That giant sucking sound...

Err ... sixth now, and dropping ...

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Re: Really?

"I remember reading in 1992 that the UK was "doomed! doomed I say!" for not getting the Euro."

Well if you do, it's a false memory.

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Re: Really?

We will probably end up back in Europe with a "Trade Deal" lots of restrictions and no power to tell them to bugger off. If we had waited a couple of years we would have probably ended up with the same result except we would have been up front rather than in the boot.

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Re: Really?

Jump! How high? Gee, I was about to say the same thing about the UK with respect to the US.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Really?

>>"The elites don't want it to impact their pocketbook."

True, but they don't care if it impacts your pocket book. At a minimum the short term uncertainty will reduce GDP slightly and as you say it won't come out of the "elites" pockets.

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" with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

I think this says it all. Big business doesn't give a damn about the UK , all its worried about is no more cheap foreign labour. It might actually have to hire brits on decent wages and give them training instead of trawling the EU for anyone suitable. Quelle Horreur!

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Meh

Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

I'm not sure that 'cheap' is the point for R&D. More 'competent'.

I wouldn't be surprised that some of these companies just close doors and relocate, or reduce the office to a mere 'presence'.

And for cheap hires, I'd say the reason to relocate to the EU is even stronger...

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

Its not cheap EU imports we need to worry about its Indian imports. The only time I've been made redundant in the IT industry was due to outsourcing to India, not the EU.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

One of the BREXIT campaigners, Employment Minister Priti Patel, said that leaving the EU would mean being able to recruit more people from the Indian subcontinent.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/brexit-promises-massive-boost-to-india-uk-relations-minister-priti-patel/story-UaYX6DMnHxUW2QipS537cK.html

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

And there was I thinking the Brexit was about trying to reduce immigration (even temporary). At least I'm sure I heard that somewhere recently.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

It appears from the Hindustan newspaper article that Priti Patel wishes to reduce EU immigrants - but increase those from the Indian subcontinent.

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Facepalm

Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

Oh special, I can see Disney and SCE on speed dial.

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

>And there was I thinking the Brexit was about trying to reduce immigration.

Now that you mention it, that may have been a lie.

Who'd have expected that, eh?

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Anonymous Coward

Alfresco Software, Britain’s most successful open-source technology firm

Who?

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

That's what this is about.

Big business love a servile and desperate underclass who will work for slavery wages, no matter the long term social cost to the host country.

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Holmes

Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

"Priti Patel" does not get it, does he?

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

Priti is a woman's name...

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

and from the same publication a different view. Plus more good news for our London centric economy. May I suggest you keep wearing those rose tinted spectacles.

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

What 'brits'? Do you seriously think ANY big business wouldn't much rather a native English speaker rather than having to train people in a language foreign to them?

The actual reality is that, in some verticals like agriculture, no 'locals' want the jobs at the wages businesses can afford to pay. And in other verticals (like healthcare), there simply aren't enough people to fill the vacancies.

And, before you say, 'just raise the wages' - are you prepared to actually pay 3x or 4x what you do now for basic things?

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

Yes, because tech companies are famous for paying 'slavery wages'. Sigh.

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

"And, before you say, 'just raise the wages' - are you prepared to actually pay 3x or 4x what you do now for basic things?"

Well, it happens. I, like many on here, have worked as a contractor through an agency. That agency charges the company a damn sight more for my time, than they do for my fully employed colleague.

Look at the Nation Health Service. How many nurses are agency staff? Those agencies charge a lot more than a normal wage.

So yes, companies and institutions will, do and can pay over the top wages.

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Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

Health service?

what a great example of a vibrant healthy business....

due in no small part to being _constrained_ to operate with a significant proportion of their frontline staff being contractors.

If they were in the private sector (checks watch) they would ALL have gone bust years ago.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

John Sanders: ""Priti Patel" does not get it, does he?"

Fibbles: "Priti is a woman's name..."

Isn't it rather silly for him to have a woman's name then?

Joking aside... I couldn't have told you it was Patel until someone mentioned it above, but I do distinctly remember a pro-Brexiter of South Asian ancestry (in her case, Indian) who seemed to think that getting rid of all the EU immigrants would let us bring in more from the Commonwealth countries.

Of course. That's *exactly* what's going to happen. That's *exactly* the reason people wanted rid of all those EU immigrants. As soon as Britain is out of the EU they're going to say "Hurrah! Let's bring in more of our chums from the Indian subcontinent. We don't like people from Eastern Europe, and we don't like those darker-skinned swarms from Syria that Mr Farage warned us about, but we really do want lots of people from India. That sort of thing's very popular with us Little Englanders!"

Yep. That's *exactly* what was driving the anti-immigrant dynamic of the Brexit campaign.

Live by the anti-immigration sword, die by the anti-immigration sword. Hypocritical, self-interested *and* stupid. That's quite a feat.

Then again, maybe she isn't so stupid and she's hoping that once the EU is out of the picture, she and the rest of the right wing of the Tory party due to take over from Cameron will be able to do what they want once they're in power.

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Re: what a great example of a vibrant healthy business....

The NHS isn't a business, it doesn't generate any revenue. No matter how efficient you make it it won't turn a profit.....

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Re: ckm5 Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

"....The actual reality is that, in some verticals like agriculture, no 'locals' want the jobs at the wages businesses can afford to pay...." I had a friend who ran a small landscaping business in the Thames Valley up until the mid-90s. At that point, she could not afford to pay someone the hourly rate they wanted to mow a lawn and still meet the price-point being offered by large national companies. The locals effectively priced themselves out of the labour market. So she closed the business and went into IT. Five years ago she had another look, thinking that the influx of cheaper immigrants might have brought costs down to where it was competitive again, but she soon found that even the immigrants wanted too high an hourly wage.

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Devops

I heard a rumour that there was an EU regulation that all IT staff would have to be retrained to use Devops. Thank goodness thats not going to happen now.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Devops

Never mind all that. Tell us about Manic Miner...

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