Want to keep Windows 10 secure? This is how much Microsoft will charge you
Updated Hint: It will keep going up
OSes
3 Apr 2024 | 106
Microsoft won't back down from Windows 10 nagware 'trick'
Microsoft is hurt and disappointed that people would think it was trying to “trick” them with a confusing Windows 10 upgrade dialog that scheduled an upgrade without users explicitly agreeing to do so. Redmond recently created a new Windows 10 nagware reminder that presented a dialog asking you to install the OS. But if users …
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Thursday 26th May 2016 06:59 GMT robidy
Re: My opinion on this?
Ralph, you post doesn't do the link justice.
You should clarify that the link is to a remarkably helpful tool that will stop the nagware, prevent inadvertent deployment of Windows 10 by desktop users, recover lost disk space and hopefully prevent mobile users busting their data limits downloading a large Windows 10 installer.
It has a helpful command line interface for use in enterprise environments which is vital for smooth and effective deployment.
It will also clear up gigabytes of disk space lost when GWX installs, some people have claimed it's freed up over 10GB!
PS. I have no connection with the author.
PPS. User beware - take the usual precautions before deploying any application...test it!
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Thursday 26th May 2016 13:53 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: My opinion on this?
"It will also clear up gigabytes of disk space lost when GWX installs, some people have claimed it's freed up over 10GB!"
Does this restore the gigabytes of bandwidth wasted on downloading this shite without your permission and refund you any fees incurred for inadvertantly going over your download limit?
Bunch of utterly f*****g shameless weasels.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 11:03 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: My opinion on this?
The meaning of the policy setting will NOT change. The meaning of the policy setting has never changed. Dismissing a dialogue has always initiated an unwanted complete system "upgrade." Trustedtruthyness is our ally. Microsoft has always been at war with our
victimscustomers. DisableOSUpgrade=1 has always meant "don't upgrade beyond Windows™ X®." Move along...
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Thursday 26th May 2016 15:05 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: My opinion on this?
Hmm, this is nothing more than a tool to automate the creation/destruction of 2 registry keys.
Surrounded (as typical for GRC) with a great deal of fanfare, like its some major achievement.
He moans about the file size being 56k, well, here you go, in 244 bytes.
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx]
"DisableGwx"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001
Because all the program does is create or delete those 2 keys.
That's it.. And this is new information how exactly?
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Friday 27th May 2016 09:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: My opinion on this?
Check out here:
GRC has no "security researchers". It's practically a one-man operation, and Gibson is just a loud-mouthed twit with no security experience. He's been widely denounced by actual security experts. Just see the controversy around his Windows XP SOCK_RAW and WMF bug/Windows backdoor claims. And his most popular work, the "SpinRite" app, is just a load of snake-oil he's managed to con a decent number of people into paying for...
The old grcsucks.com is gone, but there are still several sites dedicated to exposing his fraud, mistakes and lies over the years:
http://attrition.org/errata/charlatan/steve_gibson/
http://radsoft.net/news/roundups/grc/
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Friday 27th May 2016 13:11 GMT Not That Andrew
Re: My opinion on this?
You are right, he's basically a wannabe McAffee and like McAffee occasionally amusing, but not to be taken seriously or trusted with anything potentially dangerous.
Rather use something like GWX Control Panel, IMO any of the others are much more effective than Gibson's attempt to jump on the anti Windows 10 bandwagon.
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Friday 27th May 2016 12:24 GMT Danny 14
Re: My opinion on this?
If this app installed malware I bet the malware would be better than the windows 10 installed otherwise.
As for spinrite, I used it once at a customers premises. 80gb hard drive, clicking away. Would eventually boot into windows given a few hours. spinrite managed to at least mark huge chunks as "bad" so that the drive wouldn't go near the clicking portions so the drive could be booted and data copied off (at the time neither ghost nor PING would clone the disk so it was last ditch). apart from that ive had little experience with it but wondered how it actually worked as I thought the drive firmware would stop you messing with raw data.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 18:11 GMT RayStantz
Re: My opinion on this?
Awwww Microsofts feelings are hurt.... I DOUBT IT!!!
It doesn't take a genius or even someone with a degrees in social behavior or even Engineering to point out how right out horrible an idea this is to FORCE people to download Windows 10, this is NOTHING to do with if its a good program or not, it has all to do with people and their right to choose as well as the damage this has done by ignorantly having the program install without even the knowledge of the owner of the computer even being aware of it if they happen to not be around the computer at the time it installs.
The damage it has done to some computers, the loss of personal information and money its caused not to mention how it interrupted people at work for a long period of time and more not even mentioning the stress shows how this is by no means something "good" Microsoft was doing for their customers, it was them forcing their will on people as they saw fit, something that is as close to digital rape as one can get in my opinion and to add to the insult they act like they know better then we do, for months they asked people if they want to upgrade to windows 10, harassing them with this like its an ad and people were fully aware of the choice to upgrade or not and so at this point the people who didn't were all saying NO!!! So how is this justified??? HOW!!! You have no way to opt out unless you turn off the updates MAYBE and/or go to some other outside application like i did to stop it from being forced on my system!!
So Microsoft is "hurt" BULL, its a simple case of them not caring and forcing others but in this case its caused damage and in my opinion, they are liable, class action sounds good about now!
Also, i hear a lot of good things about Apple!
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Thursday 26th May 2016 18:58 GMT Mark 85
Re: My opinion on this?
Awwww Microsofts feelings are hurt.... I DOUBT IT!!!
Sure they are, just like the advertisers' feeling are hurt that we use adblockers, or the malware writers' feelings are hurt because we won't respond to their attempts, or Microsoft Techs' feelings are hurt because we won't allow them to get rid of all the viruses on our computers.
Oh wait.. Hurt=Bottom Line... Tough.. hurt all you want, you bastards.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 06:44 GMT Ralph B
Re: so
> Thus failing Microsofts own 'Windows Certification' then?
[quote]
The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK.
[/quote]
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Thursday 26th May 2016 12:16 GMT Charles Pearmain
Re: so Desperation
Well, their marketing geniuses talked them into screwing everyone's desktops up with a GUI designed to drive phones. Then MS were surprised to discover that pretty much everyone hated the phones so much that they're now pulling out of the market.
I'd say yes, they must be getting even more bloody desperate than after the Windows 8 debacle.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 15:13 GMT mstreet
Re: so Desperation
I think it was more a case of everyone hating Microsoft than their phones. The anti-windows phone movement has had me baffled from the start. I had a Win 8 phone (Lumia 1050) for 2 years, and it was frankly, the best phone OS I've used. The easiest to read, best reception, best integration with the corporate email system etc.The only real problem I had with it, was that it seemed engineered to fall out of the users hand. A colleague with a Nokia 750 pretty much echos the same impressions.
This is coming from someone who has entirely purged all their computers of Windows in the last year and a half, and who has become as bad as an ex-smoker in telling people how insidious Microsoft has become. But I'll give credit were it is due, and I think MS made a good phone OS. If not for the ineptness of their marketing department, they wouldn't have had to scrap the project.
The only conclusion I can come up with in regard to the negativity, is that most people who like to bash the device, have never actually used one, and are talking out of their asses.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 17:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: so Desperation
I think it was more a case of everyone hating Microsoft than their phones.
You're seeing the exact kind of stupid shit that MS pulls when it feels the need to, and you're wondering why people avoided it on their phones? People have been putting up with MS's crap for years. Dislike of MS is ingrained into most everyone now and it's something MS have brought onto themselves.
Their Windows phone could have been a *fantastic* OS for all most people know. But no-one cares, when it's MS behind it. (and rightfully so)
Imagine how well an phone "Made by Oracle" would have gone. About the same probably.
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Friday 27th May 2016 14:43 GMT Alan_Peery
Re: so Desperation
I had a Windows phone, a fancy Lumia that was handed out to one lucky attendee at a Microsoft one day conference on Azure and other technologies.
* I couldn't adjust the font size small enough in any of the apps. I prefer to read emails more than 30 words or so at a time.
* Inflexible home screen layout compared to Android.
* No ability to replace the keyboard functionality
* Many of the apps I wanted were not available, and no corresponding work-alike available.
*** Stitcher for podcasts
*** Zinio for magazine reading
*** Pocket for offline web page reading
*** IMDB for movie lookup
*** App for renting the city bikes available in London aka "Boris bikes"
*** Weather Pro -- a weather app that breaks the next five days by 4 hour forecasts, very good for planning outdoor activities
*** App for accessing the detailed Ordnance Survey maps for planning UK hikes
*** Strava app for tracking bike rides
*** App like FB Reader for reading public domain (out of copyright) books in .mobi and .epub formats
* Commercial and market leading apps weren't as good as either the iOS or Android versions
*** Kindle page formatting options not as flexible
*** Google Photo style backup didn't seem to include a "photo album" feature up on the website viewer
*** Skype was just weak overall
*** Web browser lacked the "save image to file" function
*** Map tool lacked verbal directions, ability to plan trips via public transport or bike
As it's been a while since I used the Lumia, I might have forgotten a few things or the story might have improved. My feelings at the time were that anyone who was satisfied with the Lumia phones simply didn't know what was possible.
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Saturday 28th May 2016 13:07 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: so Desperation
Even if it's an enjoyable phone OS, it's still Microsoft. Look at the very thing we're talking about here in this thread -- changing the little red X from "close dialog" into "upgrade my OS against my wishes". It's bad enough that garbage like that happens on PCs, but do we need it happening on our phones too? Maybe it didn't happen while you had your Windows phone, but what's to stop them? I'm sure many people said "Oh, Microsoft would never FORCE people to upgrade against their wishes or use trickery to make it happen", yet here we are. They want EVERYONE on 10, and that would eventually include those phones.
Nah, I'll stick with Android until the Ubuntu phone is polished and ready for the masses.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 16:56 GMT JLV
Re: so Desperation
Agree with you, but it doesn't make that much sense.
MS is a company with deep coffers and a serious likeability and hipness deficiency. It has a fair bit of strengths (at least to some people, if not our enlightened commentards).
Death-marching everyone to Win 10 achieves what, exactly? They still need to support Win 7 and 8.x until those 2 have reached end of support. Sure, there are some operating gains from supporting say 90% of users on Win10 and 10% on 7/8. As opposed to say 50/50. Your support staff can be on new technologies rather than legacy cruft. Easier troubleshooting? (we know telemetry isn't used to listen to what customers prefer).
But is it that much of a gain? At the cost of getting reviled day in, day out by a majority of IT influencers (argh, wish I could think of a better word here). And getting panned in general news coverage? Heck in 2 months, they can sell you what they're giving away for free now 8-/...
It's not like Win Phone is going anywhere that it still justifies the clever Win 8.x screw-desktop-users-to-promote-touch strategy. That horse has bolted.
What exactly is the point here? Is there so much value in the telemetry? I understand Google's hunger for your data - they've built a successful business on it. But MS isn't as ad-focused. And Win 10 usage telemetry is hardly going to be very useful to sell you toothpaste or cars, is it?
Why so much perseverance at what seems to be a self-defeating exercise that is steadily driving down public perception? What is the rational reason for it? Or is it just misplaced hubris and stubbornness?
WTF is for MS, not the OP's post.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 19:05 GMT Mark 85
Re: so Desperation
But MS isn't as ad-focused. And Win 10 usage telemetry is hardly going to be very useful to sell you toothpaste or cars, is it?
I think that needs to be suffixed with a "yet". It does seem to be coming with the Software (or OS) as a Service model. "Pay us or get ads". I'm hearing from users that they do get ads. Not many yet, but they pop up on the desktop and in some apps.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 21:38 GMT Someone Else
@JLV -- Re: so Desperation
What exactly is the point here? Is there so much value in the telemetry? I understand Google's hunger for your data - they've built a successful business on it. But MS isn't as ad-focused. And Win 10 usage telemetry is hardly going to be very useful to sell you toothpaste or cars, is it?
Why do you assume that Micros~1 is going to sell that telemetry data to advertisers?
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Sunday 29th May 2016 23:28 GMT Sir_Hops_A_Lot
Re: so Desperation
The reason is probably the reason that got Balmer fired: the App Gap.
Google, Amazon and Apple have been slaughtering MS in the Apps market and their push into the phone market was too little, too late. So MS turned to the captive Windows user base to garner a piece of the pie...frantically and ineptly.
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Friday 27th May 2016 12:31 GMT Danny 14
Re: so
We have a couple of windows 10 laptops, they came with windows 10 on them and our 8.1 image didn't like the laptop.
Rest of the network is 7, laptops use 8.1 purely for the fact you can add WIFI from the ctrl-alt-del screen (and thus VPN in from CTRL-ALT-DEL) rather than getting a user to cache their logon first before going home and adding their WIFI.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 12:17 GMT Jason Bloomberg
Re: so
> Thus failing Microsofts own 'Windows Certification' then?
He's right, you know.
[quote]
The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK.
[/quote]
I am not sure he is, even though I would class it as a dubious move.
This is not the normal nagware to install Windows 10 but appears to be the notification that it will be installed.
There is no "Cancel" button, only a link to change the installation date or abort the installation.
Closing the form is accepting things 'as they are'.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 14:26 GMT Dan 55
Re: so
If you further read the UI guidelines...
When assigning order, assume that users display dialog boxes for their intended purpose; so, for example, users display choice dialogs to make choices, not to review and click Cancel.
Use Cancel or Close for negative commit buttons instead of specific responses to the main instruction. Quite often users realize that they don't want to perform a task once they see a dialog box. If Cancel or Close were relabeled to specific responses, users would have to carefully read all the commit buttons to determine how to cancel.
Provide a Cancel button to let users explicitly abandon changes. Dialog boxes need a clear exit point. Don't depend on users finding the Close button on the title bar.
Etc... etc...
Since when does a dialog that opens and immediately changes data (itself a pretty dubious practice), accept that change on hitting close or cancel? At the very most it should pop up a modal dialog and ask if you are sure you want to leave without saving changes.
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Thursday 26th May 2016 16:49 GMT Mpeler
Re: so
Good points. Two things come to mind:
Being Micro$oft means never having to say you're sorry.
and, with regard to the window close = OK,
"Heads, we win; Tails, you lose"...
If Microsucks (and Mucked-up-media/Adobe) actually adhered to good coding practices, there'd never be a need for "Patch Tuesdays"...
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Saturday 28th May 2016 13:07 GMT MrHinsh
Re: so
And clicking the X does exactly what a cancel or close button would do on every other dialog box. It cancels or stops the current operation.
Since the current operation is "giving the option to re-schedule the update" then it does indeed cancel/stop that operation. If the purpose of this window was to install the update then cancel would stop/dismiss the update and it would not happen.
This is completely consistent with the existing user experience of all dialog boxes in Windows.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
