back to article Microsoft shifts Windows 7 and 8.1 fixes to 'rollup' bundles

Microsoft says it will simplify the update process for older versions of Windows by switching to once-a-month "rollup" bundles. Redmond says that all PCs running Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1, and servers running Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1, and Windows Server 2012 will begin getting the monthly updates. " …

Anonymous Coward

There are no Windows 7 installs. They've all been forcibly upgraded to 10.

(Even machines which haven't been powered on in over 3 years.)

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Anonymous Coward

Say Goodbye to Windows Heaven

(join us below)

Progress towards Windows Evileven

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I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

It it just me, or is this Microsoft doing something *genuinely useful* for their customers?

What's the catch? Sneaky Windows 10 upgrade that they'll 'forget was in there'? No technical description other than "It dun updatez ur cmpootaz LOL!!!!!1"?

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Gold badge

Re: I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

Nothing about this is useful. This is all so they can slip in shit like spyware and Win10 upgrade malware without you being able to avoid it.

Arrogant twatdangles, the lot of them!

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However...

It does mean I only have to ignore the "recommended" updates once rather than several times a month!

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Re: However...

Possibly not. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that they can change your settings or go around them. Keep in mind the date for last "free" Win 10 upgrade and be afraid.... At this point, I would put nothing past them.

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Re: I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

It saves on their bandwidth, because fresh Windows 7 machines tend to fall over while they catch up with all this lot on Windows Update, and because it's not a "Service Pack" they don't have to extend their extended support deadlines.

It's hardly a public service to their customers. It's a bandwidth-save on probably one of their highest-bandwidth services, using a technique that they've done for every OS they've ever released, at a time when Windows 10 is about to be become pay-only and the die-hards are making their system insecure because they won't touch Windows Updates because of Windows 10 at the moment.

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Windows

Re: I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

It's using for a moment the tired IT support shoes. Specially the lipstream to an image.

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Re: I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

Have an upvote for using the word 'Twatdangles'....

Well said Mr Pott.

Isn't this just 'Patch Tuesday' rolled into one update just so the more informed of us can decided what to apply and importantly what NOT to apply? Thought so.

All of my remaining Windows 7/Server 2008R2/Server 2012 are setup to NOT even run the windows updater service so they won't get patched. mind you, all of them are being retired in a few months.

{proudly posted from a Windows 10 free environment}

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Re: I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

If they were at all interested in doing something useful for everyone and save bandwidth they would put out Win 7 SP2 after the GWX nonsense has finished without GWX (because it's over) and without telemetry (because it's optional, supposedly).

What they're doing here sounds like every bundle will contain everything and be marked as recommended. Like GWX adverts being crowbarred into IE11 security updates.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

Nothing about this is useful. This is all so they can slip in shit like spyware and Win10 upgrade malware without you being able to avoid it.

Maybe it's another attempt to rig the statistics? Packing it all together may mean we get CVEs that contain 10, no wait, 20 vulnerabilities in one so that can claim later that their OS is "safer" based (10's too small, sorry).

Arrogant twatdangles, the lot of them!

Well, let's be realistic. You would be arrogant too if you had held on to a monopoly for decades that is basically based on abysmally bad code. I assume it's very hard to let go, must cause a lot of withdrawal symptoms.

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Re: I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

Its not being useful, its reducing the number and frequency of updates. Rather than getting them when they're ready they're being withheld and bundled up into a monthly release. Its Microsoft reducing their costs of supporting Win7 and 8.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I... Er... Um... Words fail me!

I have come to the conclusion that whatever MS do is wrong yet all you commenters cannot produce a better OS so just blindly slag them off, like MS V IOS, the the linux will save us all crowd (been hearing that for over 20 years now)

I would love to find / change OS, but as yet nothing better for the majority of my users has surfaced, only niche builds that fade withing a few updates

rant over, and WIN10 isnt as bad as Vista, try before you slag off for a change, else I'll just slag off every Linux distro without testing too.

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Will the rollup silently include KB3035583 and (unwanted) telemetry?

Has Micro-shaft discovered JUST HOW MANY OF US are NOT getting any updates (or deliberately NOT installing a certain handful of updates) because of their AGGRESSIVE GWX marketing tactics? And, the alleged SPYWARE being added to 7 and 8.x via Windows Update?

Not to mention the more RECENT discovery, having GWX 'up'grades to Win-10-nic AUTOMATICALLY SCHEDULED FOR US.

I take it that this will be THEIR way of STOPPING us from picking and choosing which updates we DO install.

Thanks, Micro-shaft. We really _NEEDED_ that...

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Re: Will the rollup silently include KB3035583 and (unwanted) telemetry?

Well we can always download the rollup, and then wait for reports on whether it screws us. Or try it first in a VM that can be easily rolled back.

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Re: Will the rollup silently include KB3035583 and (unwanted) telemetry?

At the same time, can we bill MS for doing all this (cough-cough) testing for them?

No!

Sorry, I'll pass.

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Holmes

Re: Will the rollup silently include KB3035583 and (unwanted) telemetry?

That is my thought exactly. Microsoft has been proven to never have been trustworthy - Time and time again.

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Uh-huh

>> Microsoft also says that for Windows 7 SP1, it will now begin distributing a single cumulative rollup update that contains all patches and updates for the OS up to April 2016. <<

Will that include all the spyw... oops, sorry, "Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry" and Windows 10 upgrade nag patches released since last year? If so, can they be removed easily?

I'm guessing not. Sounds like a ploy for a last (?) desperate attempt to get more people onto Windows 10 before the 'free' offer ends in a couple of months.

(Edit: I see Bob beat me to it.. lol..)

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Anonymous Coward

Yes, well...

...so I'm not the first to suppose all the ignominious shite will also be included. Which just leaves my other point: it doesn't take that long to download all updates on a clean install. It's getting the fucking list in the first place takes a bloody eon! I just do not see what is so hard about fixing that - unless it's so little talent at Microsoft these days.

Then again, I guess to judge by the user-experience plummet post-Windows 7...

(2am and I almost lulled myself into thinking this isn't simply the latest twist to the Telemetry/GWX story and actually was about slow updates! Doh!)

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Holmes

Re: Yes, well...

WTF do you smoke, Joel? Up until now is getting every one system to walk the full evolutive path since inception! And is quite a mess! And is quite risky, also! The exposure during this lapse is huge.

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Re: Yes, well...

Joel,

If its a new install KB3102810 still works for fresh installs (but it no longer works for restored Disk images)

There is a knack to it though.

On completing a fresh install of Windows 7 SP1.

Select Manual updates (Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them)

Deselect - Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates check box.

Check for updates, allow it to install the new version of Windows Update, this will close Windows Update and relaunch the Window, once the new Window 'checking for updates' relaunches, shutdown and restart the machine. Once rebooted Apply KB3102810 (you need to manually download this).

Once applied, check for updates again.

This should take not longer than 8 minutes on an SSD with fast internet connection 20Mbps+.

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This post has been deleted by its author

Microsoft is catching so much negative press over Windows 10 they decided to throw a bone.

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I had to do a system restore of my Windows 7 system last night. The restore itself went without a hitch, even leaving my Linux Mint partition alone. The only hitch was doing updates. Thanks to 2 update bugs I came across, one where I had to manually download an update from Microsoft to fix the issue, and the other where I had to uninstall Silverlight and re-install it, I have been over 24 hours just doing updates. So yes, I can see where this bundled update could be beneficial.

Unfortunately, the more updates I do, the less space I have left on that partition.

Hmm, wonder if Microsoft counts system restores as a new Windows 7 install?

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I am not amused.

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Anonymous Coward

It beats the 8+ hour wait for Windows Update to "search" for updates from a clean install.

I had that last week. WSUS Offline wound up doing the job faster.

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I'd much rather an 8+ hour wait than uninstallable spyware and Windows 10 malware!

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Anonymous Coward

The trick is to update the Windows Update client first manually.

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To solve the 8 hr initial scan issue, apply the following first and reboot:

1) Windows Update Client

2) KB3138612 - An update to the windows update client

and critically

3) KB3145739 - although it updates the graphics component, hidden in that little gem is a kernel update which allows the OS to take advantage of the windows update client updates

Reduced 8+ hrs to ~30-45 mins for a scan.

Still stupidly long, but saves me a day so it's a good starting point.

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This method doesn't work for restored images. Also, the original KB3102810 (rather than its update KB3138612) still works for a fresh install.

The reason I stick to the older one, is it works still, the only thing MS would be adding to its successor is more ways to prevent you restoring Windows 7 from an image, so that Windows 10 upgrades are a one way path (once the 30 days are up).

KB3102810 was released to solve the problem of slow updates, I'm not sure the newer versions of it have the same intentions.

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Anonymous Coward

ta for that tip I'll have to give it a go. A fresh install of Win7SP1 takes a total age checking for updates! I have tried kb3138612 but haven't tried it with 3145739.

And despite all the haters I would say this is a benefit to MS customers, it'll certainly save us time, not that we have to do many installs of fresh win7

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Dumb Q - A week ago, on my Win 7 Pro 64-bit, I installed first kb3138612 and then kb3145739 specifically to make downloading of updates faster.

Last night I stupidly UNinstalled kb3138612 because it was on a Stop Win 10 list.

Seeing your reminder here, I just REinstalled kb3138612.

But I am now worried that I have installed kb3138612 and kb3145739 in the wrong "order", with kb3145739 "first".

► Am I ok, or should I now UNinstall kb3145739 and then REinstall kb3145739 so that the two KBs are installed in the right "order"?

Sorry, and thanks.

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Time for a test, I think...

Might have to do a test install of Windows 7 Professional SP1 on a separate SSD I have inside my computer tower.

I'll install Windows, then run Steve Gibson's Never 10 and/or Josh Mayfield's GWX Control Panel (I think they pretty much do the same thing although I've noticed Never 10 needs to download and install a more recent Windows Update Agent before it can do it's job).

Then, I'll install the rollup package and see what happens. I'll also run Spybot's Anti-Beacon afterwards and see if it still disables telemetry if it has been installed.

It'll be something to fill in time one evening when there's nothing worth watching on telly

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Boffin

Re: Time for a test, I think...

@Carl D

...Josh Mayfield's GWX Control Panel...

I just downloaded the latest version and installed it on my work machine and found that MS Security Essentials now flags it for analysis. The message reads

"We found some files we would like to analyze. Send them to Microsoft to help us improve our anti-virus and malware measures".

The question now is: will they mark it as acceptable or PUP (potentially unwanted program)?

I did not send it, by the way.

Regarding slow Win7 updates, WSUSOffline is your answer. It takes substantially less time to use, especially if combined with WPKG.

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Re: Time for a test, I think...

Just missed the Edit deadline...

...Spybot's Anti-Beacon...

Thanks for that one - it is currently running and has already found a couple I missed. It will be interesting to see what it would do with Windows 10 installs where I already spent a lot of time going through all the settings to block unwanted telemetry and adverts.

(I KNEW there must be a reason why I read the comments sections! Apart from the witty, sharp and funny comments, of course).

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Re: Time for a test, I think...

You have a program GWX Control Panel that is actively preventing MS runnng 'their code'/preventing installing recommended updates (the updates which, are trying to force Windows 10 on you) from installing.

I said this before, I expected GWX Control panel to be marked by MS Security Essentials as Malware and be removed, it will probably happen sometime in July, which would see a 'nice uptick' (in their eyes) for MS, before the end of July.

MS want GWX Control Panel removed from Windows machines, make no mistake.

...and have the tools in place (MS security essentials), to remove it.

(Maybe GWX Control Panel should be nicknamed 'Swampy' given its good intentions against the forced rollout by a Multinational company)

PS. 'Swampy' was a person who protested against the building of the A30 in Devon the 1980s, by locking his arms through underground tunnels, to prevent the build from taking place,

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Just turn updates off.

No security fix is more important than having common sense and backups.

Seriously, which do you think is the bigger headache? An internet-facing machine without security updates, but an intelligent user at the controls.... or a microsoft-patcher-facing machine?

Sorry if you're supporting computers for other people. Though it's amazing that the best antivirus is a good adblocking setup.

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Anonymous Coward

You may be "intelligent" as much as you think, but some kind of flaws will hit you notwithstanding. If you believe only ads and a few other things are a threat, you may discover you're wrong the hard way, one day. Hope, for example, you never, never plug any device from relatives or friends into your system - and never open any file form outside before inspecting it fully. And believe me, no backups will save you from stolen data.

A lot of issues I've see can be traced to users who believe they are smarter than what they are actually. It just need a little mistake...

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WTF?

RTFA - Security Updates Not Included

You're still going to be out a ton of time fetching those. And since it's the non-security updates, you'll at least invlude the GWX patches and telemetry too.

"It's a trap."

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Maybe this will enable the community to create a patch iso

I'm looking forward to seeing a website that will allow you to download an ISO image of the bundled patches for Win7 that have been carefully vetted for weeding out telemetry and GWX nonsense.

That way, us 7 diehards could download the image for when we need to wipe our machines and reinstall. We could then install Win7 without the network connection, apply the ISO patches and then connect the machine (more or less) securely.

I would do it myself if I knew how.

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Re: Maybe this will enable the community to create a patch iso

"I would do it myself if I knew how."

The idea is nice, but it won't fly in real life. If you knew how, you could trust the result. Since you don't, do you really want to trust an ISO downloaded from a domain that you've never heard of before?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Maybe this will enable the community to create a patch iso

It's called "slipstreaming" and you'll find a lot of tutorials around how to do it - and you don't need a separate ISO for the patches, you get an ISO to install a "fully" patched Windows at once.

Just nobody can distribute (legally) ISOs of Windows or its patches but Microsoft. And I wouldn't trust anything from unknown people distributing them. GWX is a malware, but it's not the only one.

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Childcatcher

Er .. no. No thanks

Having spent the last year, it seems, carefully avoiding (and even uninstalling) telemetry-related and Windows 10-related updates, I'm not about to install this 'not a service pack, really' monster update and get them all back.

Likewise the future roll-up patches. I want to be able to select which ones I install, thanks.

Microsoft have been crippling machines for months : why trust that they're now offering a helping hand to be nice to us?

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Microsoft could solve these problems 'easily' by just taking out the telemetry and forced updates from Windows 10, then I think most people would be reasonably happy to upgrade to Win 10 and leave Win 7 and 8 behind.

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TRT
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No. They'd have to get rid of that dreadful UI as well.

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Re: "Microsoft could solve these problems 'easily'"

I'm sort of with you. I have a work laptop that runs windows 10 and it's fine. It's just a Windows PC. It does everything I want of it. The control panel/system settings split is a massive step backwards, but everything else - meh, it's fine.

I'm still never installing Win10 at home because I don't trust Microsoft to be responsible with the data they'll gather from it, or trust them not to break my machine with some future update that I'm not allowed to opt out of.

I don't control the work machine, so I don't care about the loss of control. That's someone else's department. I'm not prepared to tolerate it on a machine that I manage personally.

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Bronze badge

No. They'd have to get rid of that dreadful UI as well.

Exactly. So much of what *else* is wrong with MSW10 can be fixed, modified, blocked or circumvented, but even with all that the GUI will still be FUGLY. And there's no fixing that. Now, if I could run Cinnamon Desktop as the system shell, it could be fixed, but fat chance of that happening.

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Silver badge

Oh boy, yet more "Mystery Meat" Updates...

One problem I see with bundling patches like this (apart from forcing us to chow down on the obvious GWX and telemetry "shit sandwich") is that it will be FAR more difficult - if not impossible - to remove individual patches.

Sometimes, somebody has something installed on their machine that chokes on an update (usually something obscure, or Crystal Reports), and being able to pull that update for those individuals can get them working again reasonably quickly - at least until the update (or the offending app) is fixed. Rolling back an entire patch cluster could be a whole different matter.

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FAIL

"....to improve the reliability and quality of our updates."

SERIOUSLY NEEDED. Have Microcrap only just realised what the rest of the world already knew?

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Windows

I can has win7 updates wizzout telemetry?

No.

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