back to article Dell opens Oracle exit route for SAP data shops

Dell has turned its Oracle database migration suite into an exit out of Larry Ellison’s empire. Dell’s SharePlex Oracle-to-Oracle replication suite has been updated so that SAP customers can now jump from the Big Red One to the ERP giant’s Hana in-memory database. You can also use the Dell suite to move to EnterpriseDB …

That sounds like a recipe for disaster. I'll be sticking to the tools SAP provide. If it necessitates a hardware upgrade just for the purposes of exporting the Oracle data, it'll still be worth it.

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Anonymous Coward

Out of the Pot and into the Frying Pan!

Lots of inaccuracies in the article and many serious questions! But definitely a click-bait article to grab attention. Dell desperately needs good news these days.

"the fact that SAP on Oracle won’t be supported after 2025" is in fact, not a fact, but complete fiction!

First, Oracle Database is the #1 database and roughly 4/5 SAP customers run Oracle DB, so clearly theres a reason why. https://www.oracle.com/corporate/pressrelease/sap-certifies-dbim-072315.html

2nd, SAP's Platform Solutions President, Steven Lucas, back in 2014 clearly stated "SAP will never only support HANA … We will support other platforms. We will support IBM DB2, we will support Oracle and we will support SQL Server as well. We’ll continue to support those platforms” Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLpjK6h0Os4

3rd. SAP has been making significant investments in supporting Oracle and Oracle products from Oracle DB, to Exadata and SuperCluster, supporting the latest technologies and making many improvements over the last few years. Clearly SAP isn't abandoning Oracle. http://www.oracle.com/us/solutions/sap/sap-database/index.html

And I just love this statement: "“The customer does not want to be locked into a single technology.”

Oracle Database is the *only* Database that runs across *any* major OS and *any* major hw platform unlike most other Database'Engineered Systems supported with SAP.

As clearly noted in article: "SAP’s S4/HANA – the next version of its core enterprise suite – won’t run on other vendors’ relational databases, it’ll just use SAP’s in-memory HANA."

So folks, here you go, complete-LOCK-IN!! Once you're on HANA, you’ve just moved 100% to a lock-in proprietary Database thats only supported with SUSE Linux (some support for RHEL) and only on *certified* x86 vendors (this is where Dell comes in). And oh yes, IBM just introed support with Power but again, very specific configurations.

And finally, do you seriously want to migrate to an unproven, immature HANA Database platform that currently has some very serious security flaws?

http://www.zdnet.com/article/severe-sap-hana-vulnerabilities-allow-hackers-to-take-full-control/

https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-797/SAP.html

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Out of the Pot and into the Frying Pan!

Let us guess...

You work for Oracle Sales don't you?

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Gold badge

Re: Out of the Pot and into the Frying Pan!

"Oracle Database is the #1 database and roughly 4/5 SAP customers run Oracle DB, so clearly theres a reason why"

Plenty of reasons why. Lies. Damn lies. Threats. Bribes. Historical "that's how it was always done". Consultants who only know Oracle. Kickbacks to incentivize getting Oracle in the door. You name it! Lots of reasons!

Of course, once Oracle is the DB in play, the company's genitals are in Oracle's vice and all Oracle will ever do is squeeze.

Oracle: every time you think there can't be a company worse than Microsoft, Oracle proves you wrong.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Out of the Pot and into the Frying Pan!

Not an Oracle shill at all.</sarcasm>

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PostgreSQL noted as vial alternative for Oracle

In a recent article on TheRegister about Microsoft promoting it's SQLServer database as a replacement for Oracle solutions, I mentioned that PostgreSQL, via commercial EnterpriseDB might be a better alternative because PostgreSQL has proven unequivocally to be as powerful, reliable and secure for s Oracle implementations, even more so than for SQLServer, the PL/SQL language has strong synergy and similarities to to Oracle SQL syntax , and EnterpriseDB had developed an efficient,very cost effective and comprehensive 'migration toolset' that significantly reduced the pain and process of porting, as compared to the extremely lengthy, costly and difficult migration of moving to SQLServer.

Several Microsoft loyalists on the forum immediately went beserk, denouncing PostgreSQL as toy database (with no supportable, factual evidence) simply because the application is Free/Open Source (FOSS), but now Dell is providing full support to PostgreSQL as Oracle alternative as evidence of such value.

So much for the ideological idiocy of Microsoft supporters.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: PostgreSQL noted as vial alternative for Oracle

Just compare:

1) LOBs support

2) Partitioning

3) Unstructured data support (i..e Text)

4) PL/SQL features and available packages

5) High Availability (i.e RAC)

6) Security (i.e. Vault)

7) Very large database support

Sure, if your database is just a "data dump" with simple tables Postgres will do. For anything else, there's still a big difference between Oracle and Postgres. Even in price - that's true...

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Gold badge

Re: PostgreSQL noted as vial alternative for Oracle

If the application (I.E. SAP) runs on Postgres, what do I care if it isn't like for like feature parity with Oracle? Postgres has some features Oracle doesn't too.

It's the application that matters, not putting your genitals in Oracle's vice.

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Re: PostgreSQL noted as vial alternative for Oracle

Have you used postgres?

1. http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/largeobjects.html

2. Admitedly not as nice but very flexible. I set up dynamic partitioning fairly easily. http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/ddl-partitioning.html

3. http://www.enterprisedb.com/nosql-for-enterprise

4. OK no packages. Fair enough but there are other things you can do like plpython etc.

5. No multi master yet but almost anything else

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/static/high-availability.html

6. It's all good but I havnt played here to much so I can't comment.

7. Pwta bytes not enough? Amy database that big will need tuning.

http://postgresql.nabble.com/How-large-can-a-PostgreSQL-database-get-td5752401.html

http://glinden.blogspot.com.au/2008/05/yahoo-builds-two-petabyte-postgresql.html?m=1

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ECC vs S/4 HANA

If you want new functionality and move towards a true real time SAP system then you only have one option that is HANA. Some may say lock it, but it is not just a database, it includes a whole lot of analytical tool, GIS solutions, yes potentially a lock in but what matters more, the application functionality or the database.

If you stay on ECC then in 2025 there will be not more maintainance. You either move to another ERP vendor or migrate to HANA.

Sorry Mr Oracle Sales guy. You are wrong. Your biggest VAR is abandoning you.

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Anonymous Coward

Maybe also the right time to migrate away from SAP as well?

The worst tool I have to use at work are all SAP based. Most companies should migrate away from that expensive lock-in SAP is as much as they need to migrate away from Oracle.

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Dell....an option for SAP.

Now this gets hilarious.

A) Can you migrate from Postgres SQL to Oracle. I mean Dell will certify migration from Oracle->Postgres.

Are they willing to certify Postgres->Oracle.

If not , its a BS option.

B) Lets assume you are thinking long term. Hello. Heard about the HANA lock-in.

Yeah get real. Its SAP thats talking lock-in.

Oracle runs on multiple OS, Multiple hardware.

So first get back on A & B, then we chatter

Such a biased article...all chrome and shine

No substance.

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Anonymous Coward

The greatest argument mentioned: Customers want to avoid vendor lock in. So why move to HANA - that's the biggest vendor lock-in you could imagine. This so much controversial, i think they have not really thought this through.

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Anonymous Coward

DB not important

With SAP the underlying database really is not that important.

SAP does not use any native Database optimizations, heck it even manages it's own Locks.

It's just a container for the data, that is how they can currently support multiple databases within a single code stack, Performance wise they are all much of a muchness, About the only differences are around data services/Clustering/Scale-out.

A CFO does not give a frig about the underlying DB, he/she just wants a functioning ERP system.

Yes HANA only works on Linux (either in x86 or Power flavor). Again Linux is good enough.

Why would SAP want to keep maintaining expensive support for multiple databases and operating system.

I know there is a lot of SAP hate on here, but I can't think of another ERP stack that has such good integration and functionality.

Each component might not be best of breed any more, but they work together with minimum effort.

In 21 years of SAP implementations, I've only seen a couple of failures and they were all down to crap project management/Massive scope creep/cutting corners and not enough effort being put in by the project on the usability. But as with any system. If you know what you are doing a complex screen is not complex.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: DB not important

You need to go read the SAP documentation. A key part of their strategy is to push down logic into the Hana database - rather like Oracle did with PL/SQL about 20 years ago.

I thought that the industry had pretty much decided that putting too much logic into the database was a bad idea, but is seems SAP wants to give it another try.

Of course, the fact that putting the logic ties you into the Hana database and makes it nigh on impossible to switch to another vendor's database has nothing to do with SAP's strategy.

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Want to know more ?

Interesting discussions and comments.

For the ones interested in more on the subject we have a webminar coming up that might give more details and clarify how we see solving for the challenges associated with evolving and heterogeneous database infrastructures.

https://software.dell.com/event/introducing-zeroimpact-replication-from-oracle-to-sap-hana-or-teradata8111688

also have look to http://software.dell.com/shareplex

Most of you are user of TOAD ... Shareplex is in the same family.

Luigi Lenguito

Head of Solutions - Dell Software

@LuigiAtDell

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Anonymous Coward

Haha

Obviously both oracle and ibm are busy certifying their respective in memory databases for s4/Hana as we speak....

Then migrating to postgres? We need SAP support here...?! Both Sybase and SAPdb would be better options!

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