back to article 'Apple ate my music!' Streaming jukebox wipes 122GB – including muso's original tracks

Apple Music users are being warned after one fella says the streaming service deleted more than 100GB of files from his computer. Studio director James Pinkstone said Apple's subscription-based service stripped approximately 122GB worth of music, including his own original compositions, from his machine seemingly without …

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Oh how my friends laugh at me for still buying music CDs...

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Oh how my friends laugh at me for not using iTunes...

Wait, no they don't. They just look on enviously because they haven't figured out how not to yet...

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Windows

CDs, how modern.

Oh how my friends laugh at me for still buying BVDs

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Re: CDs, how modern.

Oh how my friends laugh at me for still buying BVDs

Well they would, wouldn't they? Like I do.

Crinkly crackley, bendy warpy scratchy junk, And dragging a small rock through a scratch in a slice of liquorice and fluff amalgam.....WTF are you thinking?

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Facepalm

You're saving it wrong

Thought your private files were safe? Think Different, iSuckers.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: You're saving it wrong

There are no "private files".

How could such a delusionary construction emerge in your mind? No pudding for you! And the reeducation room. Now!

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My inlaws kids noticed a had a cabinet full of square carton sleeves containing black plastic circular discs with a hole in the middle. I thin they are still trying to find out what it is I'm guarding so zealously.

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Re: CDs, how modern.

BVD?

- Bovine Virus Diarrhoea

- Bureau van Dijk

- a brand of men's underwear

Google isn't the answer!

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Rol

Re: CDs, how modern.

Black Vinyl Disks?

As opposed to the craze of picture vinyl that erased itself long before you could memorise the lyrics.

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Re: CDs, how modern.

They laugh at your for buying BVDs? *googles* (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BVD)

I don't think I want to be anywhere near your friends without at least a clothes peg on my nose.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: CDs, how modern.

Heechee prayer fans!

Yeah, Heechees didn't upload to the cloud. And there is a reason for that!

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Re: CDs, how modern.

quote//..Crinkly crackley, bendy warpy scratchy junk, And dragging a small rock through a scratch in a slice of liquorice and fluff amalgam..//quote

But - still there! Still mine! With the album art (remember album art? double-gatefold?) that it came with when I bought it! - And still playing... And, should I not want it anymore, with some re-sale value.

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Re: CDs, how modern.

no music is ever yours

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A: he is not a real musician

I propose to the audience and jury that no real musician would use iTunes.

The other data point is that he didn't have any backups, also proving that he's not a real musician.

He's probably a hipster with a room full of shiny iDevices and garageband doing dance music chop-up remixes.

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

First of all, he DID have a backup, according to the article.

And so what if your music ends up in their cloud - it lets you download it again. Or did I miss something relevant here?

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

Yes, you missed at least four things here (having read the original blog and then checked to see if The Reg had picked it up):

- You can only download it again while you have internet access (obvious but still important)

- The system can conflate different versions of the same song, replacing one with another

- Apple doesn't support WAV files, so the original material has now been compressed

- If you take up the 3 month free subscription to Apple Music and then cancel it, all your music is gone forever, apparently.

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

Yes, from a report elsewhere it seems it deleted his WAVs, and then only made MP3s available. This included his own original tracks - so without the backup he would have lost the high quality version permanently.

It's also possible (the report I saw was unclear) that Apple would then offer those original tracks to other people for download, without his permission or knowledge.

And some of the music he had was unusual, rare special versions of particular tracks which got deleted and replaced with generic versions.

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

Fine. I'm not a real musician, using iTunes and Garageband as I do. It's gospel according to Timo.

Here's the thing: because so much of my collection are songs I recorded and some are tracks I pulled off of cassettes, I was wary of Match and Apple Music. I also understand that the matching is textual, so album or art changes or versions may be substituted, because Apple is constrained by its license from the record company, who may be successors to the original releasing label. They, the record company, certainly don't give a flying about alternate takes or the other things that collectors and deep fans treasure.

Here's my common sense conclusion: these products were not designed with my edge case in mind — and rightfully so.

And reading the original blog, call me lucky. But, as Timo notes, don't call me a musician. Timo knows all.

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

I wonder if flagging all your music files as read-only would prevent any deletions from occurring.

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

I've noticed Apple's weird relationship with album art. It keeps changing. I don't know why, because when I ripped the CDs it created a folder on my PC full of the stuff. Some was wrong, but I didn't really care, so long as it was obvious what it was. But there must be some process by which it randomly goes off and gets some more, as it's now maybe 8 years since I started using iTunes - and some of my albums are on their third covers on the iPad. The music app for which has become steadily more unuseable every time they update it. I think my next tablet is going to be a Lenovo Yoga for half the price.

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

Yes. Also, and this is critical, never *ever* maintain your Music Library in the Default location in your Home folder.

If you move it to a secondary drive (or volume - partitions works perfectly) and change the settings in iTunes preferences to have it copy songs, but NOT organize the library, it doesn't move the files in any way, shape or form.

Unfortunate guy did not have the correct settings in the preferences - a common thing - and the effin' program ate his files.

NEVER leave your music in the default location however, as it stops the 'space-saving' measure in its tracks. I've used iTunes from the start - actually prior to it as I ran Casady and Greene's Sound Jam (which Apple bought and reworked into iTunes) on OS 8.1 and in 17 years haven't lost a single file to anything but my own stupidity.

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Coat

Re: A: he is not a real musician

But there must be some process by which it randomly goes off and gets some more,

It's the iTunes equivalent of your car's glove compartment, where any cassette, from Paul Anka to Megadeth, turns into a Best of Queen compilation.

The one with the WM504 in the pocket

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

> And so what if your music ends up in their cloud

I think you'll find it isn't, you know. That's what the whole story is about.

If it was still in their cloud he wouldn't have a problem.

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

This "Real Musician" uses iTunes...It's just a tool, and it's useful for tagging a lot of files quickly. It is definitely not used for things like managing digital assets as this guy was apparently doing, though. I haven't let any CloudSync near my MP3/FLAC/Whatever library of pre-recorded tracks since my olde .MP3 rip of "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" was swapped by the Fruit Company for another version that was not nearly as good as the one from "Rumor and Sigh". I had to re-rip the whole album and then turned off anything that looked like or rhymed with "Let Apple Manage your Music".

Bitching about what some other player uses to produce his work makes you sound like a tool. Tell us about your tube pre-amp now...

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Re: A: he is not a real musician

"Or did I miss something relevant here?"

It also re-encodes it to Apple format, rendering it unusable in any other software.

Embrace, extend, assimilate into the ecosystem.

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122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

It happened over Christmas and even now I'm still in the process of re-ripping all my CD's and re-fixing all the meta-data etc because with that volume of files the OneDrive Recycle Bin is useless.

Plus the fact that I had moved my Android-SDK folder from OneDrive to Dropbox before I noticed what had happened to my media files and the idiotic, fixed reverse-timeline nature of that Recycle Bin made trying to recover anything that had been deleted before the 10's of 000's of files in that SDK folder absolutely impractical. i.e. impossible

I investigated the issue quite thoroughly and established that the issue was with some interaction between the Windows 10 OneDrive client and the OneDrive cloud service responses to Windows 10 in general.

I disabled the OneDrive client on Windows 10 and installed a 3rd party OneDrive sync client, configured for one-way sync only (cloud to device). That 3rd party client reported problems syncing some files.

I checked those files in the OneDrive web interface and they were fine. They downloaded from the web interface just fine. I checked them on my other sync'ed devices and they were fine.

So i then re-enabled the Windows 10 OneDrive client and sure enough... those specific files were then DELETED in the OneDrive cloud and all my other sync'ed devices then did as they were told and went ahead and deleted them too.

It's astonishing that this issue has not received wider coverage.

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Re: 122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

OneDrive is so not-fit-for-purpose that I think it only exists to demonstrate how well sorted DropBox is.

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Re: 122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

Get used to it. Microsoft's long game is to force us all back to the mainframe/dumb terminal time share subscription model.

Azure, Sharepoint, OneDrive, 365, Appstore. You're seeing it right now.

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Re: 122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

...which is ironic as not so long ago it was Microsoft that was forcing us away from that.

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Re: 122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

Wrutten by .Net munkeys possibly so codekewl that they dropped out of uni as the material was too abstract, now hidden inside the bowel of the Redmond beast and lorded over by the marketing barons of interconnectedness and cloud sharing. Yes, GiBs will be lost.

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Re: 122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

3rd party OneDrive sync client

Onedrive in 8.1 was nigh on perfect but MS seemed to have fucked over their Onedrive in 10, to the point where I daren't allow the OS to sync because I don't trust it. Just curious what 3rd party app you use.

Also, Itunes has been deleting files of peoples PCs forever (plugging in an ipod where music has been mistakenly deleted would delete those songs from the itunes library).

First thing I always do is untick autosync in the options, then you control what goes where.

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Devil

Re: 122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

"It's astonishing that this issue has not received wider coverage."

It has- check out all the 'Windows 10 is rubbish' articles.

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Re: 122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

"fixed reverse-timeline nature of that Recycle Bin"

Is this some OneDrive-specific version of the Recycle bin?

Because the normal one in Windows acts like any other folder and can be sorted by any old attribute. Just change the view mode to 'Details' and click on the column you'd like to sort by.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

122GB ? Pah. Windows 10 OneDrive client ate over 200GB of my files!

Yes, but you deliberately put them in The Cloud. Things put in the cloud will get lost when it rains.

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Mushroom

Streamed from Apple

What if you aren't in range of a signal? I know a lot of times I am not.

We need a "Former Apple Fanboy" icon.

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Re: Streamed from Apple

What if you aren't in range of a signal?

What, you mean there are places where we might not be able to track you in real time? That doesn't fit our business model so it can't happen. </sarcasm>

In this day and age everyone assumes that you will have connectivity 24/7 so nobody considers what happens when you are "out of range" or when the service is down.

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Holmes

Really?

"Even in my most Orwellian paranoia I never could have dreamed that the content holders, like Apple, would also reach into your computer and take away what you already owned," the musician said.

Guess he never heard about the Kindles that had content remote erased by Amazon, then. El Reg covered it here.

All the big companies have the same attitude, really, whether it's Apple, MS, Amazon, etc. They truly feel that "All your device are belong to us."

We all have two choices. We can either go along with the manufacturers and stay connected like good, little sheep. Or DISCONNECT your devices from the Internet and/or carefully control what access your devices have (and what data the manufacturers can slurp/delete from them). Take your choice.

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Re: Really?

I noticed you were downvoted. Seems the flacks are paying more attention to El Reg these days.

Have an upvote from me. I'd give you a thousand if I could.

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Devil

Re: Really?

I only connect my Kindle & Kobo via USB, Only in emergency using WiFi / 3G and only if it's all backed up on two different computers via USB first.

I backup on 2 x standalone HDDs, and copies on laptop, workstation and my server, also private SFTP to my hosting.

I don't use any library/management program that doesn't work by importing a copy, and thereafter never touching the original file.

Netflix only doesn't delete DVDs, and Apple CDs because they are inaccessible.

I don't trust any of these "corporates". Cloud is only subscription hosting that someone else controls. The much vaunted "sync" on most services is liable to screw up your data, or metadata (such as categories etc) and often if you cancel, change account or delete account data anything you didn't buy is deleted and the "backup" cloud when you re-instate your account only has the stuff they sold your (if it has anything!).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Really?

"All the big companies have the same attitude, really, whether it's Apple, MS, Amazon, etc"

You correctly missed Google, unless you know different and can show where they deleted a users private file?

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Re: Really?

Google tends to avoid deleting stuff. They just index it for advertisers for eternity.

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Re: Really?

This is why I print my El Reg out and read it in the woods

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Really? This is why I print my El Reg out and read it in the woods

And it's dual use when you wipe afterwards.

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Roo
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Windows

Re: Really?

"Or DISCONNECT your devices from the Internet and/or carefully control what access your devices have (and what data the manufacturers can slurp/delete from them)."

Vendors appear to be going out of their way to make sure that running offline is either impossible or ridiculously awkward. Immutable backups are the only way to be sure right now.

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Re: Really?

@Mage

That sounds like a pretty comprehensive backup strategy. However, I wouldn't mind betting that there is no way of backing up the firmware. So if Amazon decide to silently upgrade your Kindle when you connect to a network you might find that even though you still have the books backed up to a file, you are no longer allowed to read them on your device and you've got no way of going back to when you were allowed to.

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Re: Really?

Yup. Got a few unknown to anyone but me gmail accounts that I use as online storage for my digital art. I figure it will outlast my very life.

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Devil

Re: Really?

gmail accounts that I use as online storage for my digital art. I figure it will outlast my very life.

Just out of interest.... Did you read the google license? The one that says that they now have a perpetual right to your work, they can use it as they wish and sell copies of it to who they wish and can make and sell derivitave works without giving you a cent?

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Old old news

Many years (decades?) ago I installed iTunes on a windoze system to record podcasts. Which it did quite happily for a while. I would then periodically move them somewhere more convenient to play back via my squeezebox setup. After a little while iTunes threw a hissy fit and decided that if I was nt playing the podcasts back (through iTunes) I clearly didn't need them so it stopped recording them. So I deleted it and have never used it since. I have an optimistic friend who has installed iTunes 3 or 4 times and purged it each time after it made a mess by re-arranging his music collection in undesired ways.

Onedrive I deleted soon after installing Win10. Along with most of the "modern" apps and the windoze store. Mind, I gather you can no longer do that on Win10 Pro so I'm wondering if it will rise zombie-like from the cat-fluff in the bottom of my PC.

Backups? Thats what NASs and suchlike are for.

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Re: Old old news

I stopped using iTunes when an update to it disabled my network interface.

It actually did it more than once. The first time I thought the interface being disabled was probably some random glitch that coincidentally happened when iTunes was updated. I fixed it and carried on... but then it happened again when iTunes next updated.

And just to add insult to injury, having enabled it again before uninstalling iTunes - it happened again when I carried out that uninstallation.

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bep

Re: Old old news

Yeah, unsubscribing you to podcasts because you haven't listened to them for a while is one the most insanely frustrating things about iTunes. Apple can't seem to cope with the idea that every week isn't the same as every other week. Some of us go on holidays, for example, and like to listen to podcasts on the beach. Obviously this does not compute in Appleland, where every one loves their jobs (see what I did there?) so much they would never dream of going on holiday.

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