back to article No escape: Microsoft injects 'Get Windows 10' nagware into biz PCs

Microsoft's relentless campaign to push Windows 10 onto every PC on the planet knows no bounds: now business desktops will be nagged to upgrade. When Redmond started quietly installing Windows 10 on computers via Windows Update, it was aimed at getting home users off Windows 7 and 8. If you were using Windows Pro or Enterprise …

Gold badge

I am not a fucking product.

Dear Microsoft, if you treat me like nothing more than a product to be "monetized" don't expect me to pay for any of your shit, ever again. Nor will I be using your free stuff. My privacy isn't for sale, nor is that of my customers, employees, friends, family cats, fish, lizard or the bloody air molecules we breathe.

Yes, yes, I know...I'm to small for you to give a rat's ass about my paltry few tens of thousands in yearly software purchases. But I do wonder just how many customers you can treat like products before you're right screwed.

Hope you have a ruinous 2016,

--Trevor

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

Enjoy a pint on me since I can't upvote you a few trillion times in agreement.

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

A follow-on thought from an out-of-thread discussion: I think the Microsoft/customer relationship can be compared to the abusive spouse/victim relationship. Specifically, there are many kinds of abuse that don't result in physical trauma but which are nonetheless very real.

Today, a victim of spousal abuse can walk out of the house, never to return, and there is (in civilized nations) an entire social infrastructure in place to help them. They can find the help required to start over, rebuild their lives, deal with debt or legal issues and so much more.

In a lot of ways I feel there are parallels here. The difference is that the vendor/customer abuse cycle is more where spousal abuse was in the 1950s. The infrastructure doesn't exist to help anyone - from consumers to SMBs to enterprises - walk away from an abusive vendor.

We all know that it isn't as simple as just decided not to use a vendor's software/hardware anymore. With Microsoft's "Get Windows 10" and the "Google Stop Moving My Fucking Buttons" nature of SaaS, we've also entered a period in IT where many can't even choose to delay purchases or changed while they try to figure out an exit strategy.

Just like with abusive spouses, there are those who won't recognize they are in an abusive relationship. There are also those who recognize the abusive relationship, but rationalize staying anyways. What there isn't is several decades of social, political and economic infrastructure to help us cope with having made bad decisions and gotten stuck with abusive partner in the first place.

How the hell did we (collectively) let it get this bad? And what - if anything - can we do about it?

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Whilst I agree with you, who will you use instead?

Thanks to UEFI it's very difficult to boot linux these days, and those thousands of "just curious" users providing a tonne of information about their hardware with every install must be having an impact on the compatibility of modern hardware.

If your organisation has upgraded to surface pro etc then I guess your a bit screwed anyway.

Then again linux does work well with older hardware so if your all running the same x-brand laptop from 3 years ago then could be worthwhile, save for any unique business applications.

The way the big corporates see the world now is that there is 2 operating systems for PCs (microsoft or mac) and the hardware you buy determines which one you use. Then there are 3 mobile operating systems with no great difference between the privacy aspects of any of them (that is: you have none)

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

Agree 1000% I stopped being a Microsoft promoter some years ago.. Having made a great career implementing their products this cash grab has lost me.. So I will run Windows 7, and Exchange 2010 locally, I don't need the "new" features.. Nothing compelling in Windows 8, 8.1, 10 and go back to my roots tinkering with Unix..

May 2016 be their annus horribilis

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

@Trevor - i like your analogy to an abusive spouse. I have been advising people informally not to install W10 and to research other options. None have installed W10 and some are considering what to migrate to and its not Winbloat.

One scenario I think will happen is when a company misses payroll because W10 does not play nice with the payroll package. US law mandates all back and liquidated damages are owed to each employee if a company misses a payroll. Now if this can be traced by to Slurp and W10 this could make for an interesting lawsuit with the possibility of punitive damages. Slurp will dodge many, settle some, but could lose a couple key ones which could be very costly. Are there any adults running Slurp?

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How is UEFI making linux difficult to boot? The go to distribution for new people (Ubuntu) and by proxy Mint both have UEFI certificates and boot without having to do anything at all. And if you are not in the deb camp and want rpms then fedora is UEFI compatible as well.

Finally if you want to roll your own you can turn off secureboot in your bios. And if you are considering rolling your own or running one of the other distros then changing a setting in bios should be child's play.

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Anonymous Coward

Then again linux does work well with older hardware so if your all running the same x-brand laptop from 3 years ago then could be worthwhile, save for any unique business applications.

Around here, the march of the penguin seems unstoppable.

24 months ago we had an engineering department of 8 people. Two of those used Linux, one dual booting (mostly a Linux user), the other, yours truly, running almost exclusively Linux.

18 months ago, much the same numbers, but now one had decided to ditch Windows on his machine and move to Linux. Others were running Linux in VMs.

In the last 12 months:

- our engineering manager has gone from running pure Windows 8.1, to dual-booting with Ubuntu, to booting out Windows altogether.

- we've brought on two more people, who are pretty much full-time Linux users

- one of our engineers had a laptop (running Windows 7) fail whilst on-site. Long story short, in a hurry he bought a HP Envy, which came pre-loaded with Windows 10. Once back from site, he gave the machine an exorcism and now runs pure Ubuntu.

So the count was 6 Windows users, two Linux users, it's now more like 3 Windows users, 10 Linux users. I've threatened to move to BSD just to differentiate myself (although I run Gentoo instead of Ubuntu, so maybe different enough).

Outside of engineering, the idea of running Windows in a VM (using a copy-on-write image) with Linux as the host has been discussed and genuinely considered as a tempting option.

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There are support systems available...Macs if you have cash and Linux if you don't. Although Apple's walled garden has been sort of abusive from the start: You definitely aren't the "top" in the relatiionship; but some people like that sort of thing and -to use a kinder analogy- Apple's curated service is worth the money for many.

In a way, Microsoft are doing us a favour...they are clearly demonstrating unfitness for purpose for the responsibility of running an operating system. With the ever increasing use of cloudiness and dependence on other people's computers the clear "it's time to bail out before you get irrevocably entrenched" signal couldn't have come at a better time.

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when Secure Boot can't be turned off

@Kye Macdonald

"Finally if you want to roll your own you can turn off secureboot in your bios."

That ability is optional:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/windows-10-to-make-the-secure-boot-alt-os-lock-out-a-reality/

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Coat

@ Bubba Von Braun - Re: I am not a fucking product.

May 2016 be their annus horribilis

They are already horrible anuses! (That is the correct translation, innit?)

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I tried to switch to Linux mint. Booting the live CD left me with no mouse or keyboard (which was eventually solved by using a different USB port), they had no drivers for my Nvidia 970 leaving me with software rendering and after installing with the intention of Dual Booting, I got no boot menu on restart offering me to go into Linux. I spent a couple of hours of Google trying to solve these problems before giving up. There was plenty of advice about editing config files, terminal commands and many other things I didn't want the hassle of. Microsoft can suck it, but Linux is far from the easy experience some people make it out to be.

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Happy

UEFI boot in Linux is hard?

You need kernel 3.3 - does not even need grub, anymore! Why not just go FreeBSD or PCBSD (FreeBSD for the Desktop) 10.2?

>The way the big corporates see the world now is that there is 2 operating systems for PCs (microsoft or mac) and the hardware you buy determines which one you use.

Traditional, non-IT, big corps, yes, IT businesses know there is Linux, heck, they don't touch Windows with a barge-pole.

>Then there are 3 mobile operating systems with no great difference between the privacy aspects of any of them (that is: you have none)

Soooooo true.

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@Shufflemoomin - The "poke and hope" approach can and does go wrong sometimes. Sometimes it's the network driver that fails which means that -if you don't have another device to look things up on the internet with- you can have problems. These days when pretty well everyone has a phone it's not usually insurmountable; but those of us who have checkmated themselves in the past have a bit more of a cautious approach to these things.

Suggestions:

1) Backup so you can get back to the starting line in case things go wrong

2) Give your target OS a spin in a VM first. Not definitive because the VM piggybacks on the host OS's drivers; but can show up problems and is good practice (and practise) anyway. You want to know how your basic security works (antivirus, firewall etc.) works and be able to install it quickly before showing your new final install to the internet in any event. You can also use the VM to test the various applications you intend to use; test which OS flavour suits you and generally get over the 'blowing shit up' stage with no harm done.

3) If it's windows you're moving from, fire up something like SIW (https://www.gtopala.com/) and check the physical devices your machine has; the availability of drivers; and have them all downloaded locally and ready to go. Video, sound, network (and pointing devices if you're using anything non-standard) as a minimum. Touchpad too, if it's a laptop.

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Anonymous Coward

@shufflemoomin

That's an interesting data point.

So far I & my colleagues have have a very easy time with Linux (Mint/Ubuntu) installs including the guy who has a fancy gaming laptop.

But it just goes to show that there is still hardware with poor driver support in Linux.

There is another side to this coin, which is that YMMV also applies (to a lesser extent) to Windows drivers, especially the lack of support for older hardware in newer versions of Windows - availability of signed drivers in 64-bit Windows from W8 onwards is a particular issue (yes there is an arcane way to make Windows accept unsigned drivers, but it fulfils the criterion of "loads of time wasted Googling for solutions").

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

> Hope you have a ruinous 2016,

Don't worry, they will, once some big enough corporation burns it's paws and sues. Or maybe a hilarious class-action. Perhaps 2016 will finally be the year of you know what on the desktop.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I am not a fucking product.

Well said Trev,

Microsoft wants to be Google yet still charge you Apple prices. We're not that stupid Microsoft, fuckety-bye and welcome 'nix.

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@ Shufflemoomin

"they had no drivers for my Nvidia 970 leaving me with software rendering "

Sorry don't have too much time to go into this at the moment this but there are Linux Nvidia drivers available for the 970 - http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/77844/en-us

What is likely to be the problem is that (I'm not a Mint user) the driver needs to be added after install via probably an additional repository ( certainly that's what I've done with OpenSUSE but I've not needed to install on a system with a Nvidia card for quite a time). I note you've also had problems with NVidia on W10

In general, I'd also suggest trying a few live-CDs just to see which you prefer.

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UEFI

Your post explains how UEFI is making Linux hard, you need to pick a distro with a certificate and can't just roll up with your own OS, so a potentially unlimited choice has been restricted to two and their derivatives. Linux becomes a project only possible because of corporations with deep pockets (more so than it already is).

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

Ouch!! the impact of this on small business sector...

Send an invoice with screen dump/ log file to MS for every crash/ BSOD!

Fucking Leaches!

Upvote applied

.

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Facepalm

Re: @shufflemoomin

"There is another side to this coin, which is that YMMV also applies (to a lesser extent) to Windows drivers"

Guess what happens if using Windows 7 you realize it might be a good idea to switch your SATA controller from ye olde IDE legacy mode you used for convenience at install time to AHCI mode for the sake of your new SSD that kinda needs that sort of thing (for TRIM), but you "forget" to enable the msahci service with regedit in advance. If you want real fun though, do the same under the XP you're dual booting with (yes it's possible), where you have no native support for AHCI and no way to install any drivers because the relevant PCI device is not showing up until you actually activate AHCI in the BIOS, by which time you can't actually boot anymore...

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

Your right lets not buy Windows we shall use.................Nope nothing comes to mind.

"What about Linux" - its free but nothing supports it not even its own community half the time. Its just abandon ware on a grand scale. Its great if you want to be messing around with the OS all the time, but id much rather be blowing stuff up on Just Cause 3.

What about Mac OSX - I'm sure fisher price do a cheaper product with more use.

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

Well they pick their targets. What are the chances of any small business winning this one against MS' legal juggernaut?

What are the licensing implications for this by the way?

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Linux

Lord, here comes the FUD!

We'll say goodbye to poor ol' Tux

If again the drives are silent

in any still alive

(typed from a machine with functional UEFI and functional Linux installed and booted with no trouble whatsoever).

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

@Trevor_Pott well said that man!

I was your sixty-ninth upvote - now I feel like I'm in a carry-on film

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

Trevor...first off, I kind of agree with the sentiment.

But isn't this just sympomatic of how people over the last few yeas have sleep-walked into the 'acceptable' idea that they have no right to privacy?

WIth Google, Facebook et al all turning people into a commodity, it was unfortunately only a matter of time before MS decided to do the same.

Sad times.

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"if you are not in the deb camp and want rpms then fedora is UEFI compatible as well."

It's a very long time since I used Fedora but AFAICR I found it to be release often, break often. Maybe a derivative of RH, say Centos or Scientific Linux, would be better; I'm sure they're UEFI compatible.

But as a stepping stone it might also be worth looking at one of the Ubuntu derivatives such as Zorin that set out to provide a user interface as close to W7 as possible.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I am not a fucking product.

but that's because you're not even a blimp on their radar, and so might be all the readers of the Register and those countless (but ultimately, blimpey MS-haters, including myself. And the rest, those milions, are yes, a product and as a business they'd be fools not to exploit this "opportunity" - any opportunity in fact. That's what business is about, I hear. You won't push a liner off its course with a cayak, sorry. And even if you self-destroy, (sirens wailing) I doubt very much you carry enough in your hold to make even a scratch in the MS hull. Let them be on their course (steaming cheerfully towards an iceberg, perhaps?), and spend your life on something more productive.

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"Give your target OS a spin in a VM "

I consider it better to check out a Live install ISO first (or as well), especially if you depend on wifi, as some wifi cards don't operate out of the box, and some need firmware that the distro ISO doesn't contain.

It also should give your the opportunity to test for any other nasty surprises due to uncooperative hardware (sound, card readers etc).

VM's are trendy an all, but if you intend to install, better to test on bare metal.

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Windows 10 gives the motherboard manufacturer the option to remove the option to turn off Secure Boot manually in the BIOS.

So you may get/have a Windows 10 machine and find you cannot install a non-UEFI certified Linux distro.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901262/microsoft-tightens-windows-10s-secure-boot-screws-where-does-that-leave-linux.html

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Re: @ Shufflemoomin

It's been a while, but I believe you are correct, chemist: mint will require post-installation nvidia driver addition.

But that's also true of Windows.

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

Ouch!! the impact of this on small business sector...

Actually, this change may also impact big business...

I've seen company's with large laptop populations and mobile users ie. people who are rarely in the office, but are more frequently in the offices of clients, hotels or working from home, having the laptops configured to directly use WUP, which given all the talk about public/private/hybrid cloud over the years makes sense.

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Linux

Re: I am not a () product... And what - if anything - can we do about it?

Answer is easily said. Take your business elsewhere!

Agreed, actually doing it may not be quite so simple. Going Apple is fairly straightforward, but will probably put your costs up somewhat. Going Linux is still seen by some as difficult, though in fact it really is not.

The real challenge lies in building up the courage to take the decision in the first place. Once done, you will find that the switch process is much less frightening than you had feared, and you will wonder why on earth you did not leave MS behind years ago. And with Linux, so will your Accountant.

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@ Shufflemoomin

My previous experiences with Linux were similar to yours. Until.

Until a friend strong-armed me into trying Peppermint Linux and it installed without any serious issues -- even the wireless adapter. Put it on another computer too and no real problems there either.

Linux still isn't for everyone and some of the apps I've used just don't compare with Windows'.

But if Microsoft's bullying isn't mitigated by it's products' ease of use (and Win10 seems to combine lack of intuitiveness with bullying) Linux may be a viable alternative to Mac. Of course the latter are just as awful as MS -- e.g. crippling USB and Bluetooth on iPhones and forcing one to use the vile iTunes.

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Gimp

Re: I am not a fucking product.

"but id much rather be blowing stuff up on Just Cause 3."

Cause Windows is a toy OS.

Where's the whiny manchild icon?

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@ a_yank_lurker

"US law mandates all back and liquidated damages are owed to each employee if a company misses a payroll. Now if this can be traced by to Slurp and W10 this could make for an interesting lawsuit with the possibility of punitive damages."

One problem. Read the terms-of-service you agree to when you install:

----

10. Binding Arbitration and Class Action Waiver if You Live in (or if a Business Your Principal Place of Business is in) the United States.

We hope we never have a dispute, but if we do, you and we agree to try for 60 days to resolve it informally. If we can’t, you and we agree to binding individual arbitration before the American Arbitration Association (“AAA”) under the Federal Arbitration Act (“FAA”), and not to sue in court in front of a judge or jury. Instead, a neutral arbitrator will decide and the arbitrator’s decision will be final except for a limited right of appeal under the FAA. Class action lawsuits, class-wide arbitrations, private attorney-general actions, and any other proceeding where someone acts in a representative capacity aren’t allowed. Nor is combining individual proceedings without the consent of all parties. “We,” “our,” and “us” includes Microsoft, the device manufacturer, and software installer.

a. Disputes covered-everything except IP. The term “dispute” is as broad as it can be. It includes any claim or controversy between you and the manufacturer or installer, or you and Microsoft, concerning the software, its price, or this agreement, under any legal theory including contract, warranty, tort, statute, or regulation, except disputes relating to the enforcement or validity of your, your licensors’, our, or our licensors’ intellectual property rights.

b. Mail a Notice of Dispute first. If you have a dispute and our customer service representatives can’t resolve it, send a Notice of Dispute by U.S. Mail to the manufacturer or installer, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT. If your dispute is with Microsoft, mail it to Microsoft Corporation, ATTN: LCA ARBITRATION, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052-6399. Tell us your name, address, how to contact you, what the problem is, and what you want. A form is available at (aka.ms/disputeform). We’ll do the same if we have a dispute with you. After 60 days, you or we may start an arbitration if the dispute is unresolved.

c. Small claims court option. Instead of mailing a Notice of Dispute, and if you meet the court’s requirements, you may sue us in small claims court in your county of residence (or if a business your principal place of business) or our principal place of business-King County, Washington USA if your dispute is with Microsoft. We hope you’ll mail a Notice of Dispute and give us 60 days to try to work it out, but you don’t have to before going to small claims court.

d. Arbitration procedure. The AAA will conduct any arbitration under its Commercial Arbitration Rules (or if you are an individual and use the software for personal or household use, or if the value of the dispute is $75,000 USD or less whether or not you are an individual or how you use the software, its Consumer Arbitration Rules). For more information, see (aka.ms/adr) or call 1-800-778-7879. To start an arbitration, submit the form available at (aka.ms/arbitration) to the AAA; mail a copy to the manufacturer or installer (or to Microsoft if your dispute is with Microsoft). In a dispute involving $25,000 USD or less, any hearing will be telephonic unless the arbitrator finds good cause to hold an in-person hearing instead. Any in-person hearing will take place in your county of residence (of if a business your principal place of business) or our principal place of business-King County, Washington if your dispute is with Microsoft. You choose. The arbitrator may award the same damages to you individually as a court could. The arbitrator may award declaratory or injunctive relief only to you individually to satisfy your individual claim.

e. Arbitration fees and payments.

(i) Disputes involving $75,000 USD or less. The manufacturer or installer (or Microsoft if your dispute is with Microsoft) will promptly reimburse your filing fees and pay the AAA’s and arbitrator’s fees and expenses. If you reject our last written settlement offer made before the arbitrator was appointed, your dispute goes all the way to an arbitrator’s decision (called an “award”), and the arbitrator awards you more than this last written offer, the manufacturer or installer (or Microsoft if your dispute is with Microsoft) will: (1) pay the greater of the award or $1,000 USD; (2) pay your reasonable attorney’s fees, if any; and (3) reimburse any expenses (including expert witness fees and costs) that your attorney reasonably accrues for investigating, preparing, and pursuing your claim in arbitration. The arbitrator will determine the amounts unless you and we agree on them.

(ii) Disputes involving more than $75,000 USD. The AAA rules will govern payment of filing fees and the AAA’s and arbitrator’s fees and expenses.

(iii) Disputes involving any amount. If you start an arbitration we won’t seek our AAA or arbitrator’s fees and expenses, or your filing fees we reimbursed, unless the arbitrator finds the arbitration frivolous or brought for an improper purpose. If we start an arbitration we will pay all filing, AAA, and arbitrator’s fees and expenses. We won’t seek our attorney’s fees or expenses from you in any arbitration. Fees and expenses are not counted in determining how much a dispute involves.

f. Must file within one year. You and we must file in small claims court or arbitration any claim or dispute (except intellectual property disputes - see Section 10.a.) within one year from when it first could be filed. Otherwise, it’s permanently barred.

g. Severability. If the class action waiver is found to be illegal or unenforceable as to all or some parts of a dispute, those parts won’t be arbitrated but will proceed in court, with the rest proceeding in arbitration. If any other provision of Section 10 is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that provision will be severed but the rest of Section 10 still applies.

h. Conflict with AAA rules. This agreement governs if it conflicts with the AAA’s Commercial Arbitration Rules or Consumer Arbitration Rules.

i. Microsoft as party or third-party beneficiary. If Microsoft is the device manufacturer or if you acquired the software from a retailer, Microsoft is a party to this agreement. Otherwise, Microsoft is not a party but is a third-party beneficiary of your agreement with the manufacturer or installer to resolve disputes through informal negotiation and arbitration.

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Joke

Re: @ Bubba Von Braun - I am not a fucking product.

'Ugly Duckling' surely? No wait, that's Anas horribilis...

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Re: @ a_yank_lurker

Courts regularly throw out unreasonable clauses, and many of those are arbitrary and unreasonable.

MS may think it has its ass covered, but Legal World may not be agree. Ultimately any suit would probably be dragged up to the Supreme Court anyway.

Meanwhile MS is racking up bad publicity and losing customers. So if goes in that direction - and I hope it does - MS loses either way.

It's a shitty, stupid company. It hasn't matured in thirty years, so we can only hope it crashes and burns soon - although preferably after the R&D people are split off, because that's the only interesting part.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @shufflemoomin

If you want real fun though, do the same under the XP you're dual booting with (yes it's possible), where you have no native support for AHCI and no way to install any drivers because the relevant PCI device is not showing up until you actually activate AHCI in the BIOS, by which time you can't actually boot anymore...

It's actually quite easy to get XP running AHCI. But it's a bit convoluted, if that isn't a contradiction. With the correct Intel or AMD AHCI driver you install to the correct IDE controller, reboot, switch (back) to AHCI in the BIOS, and it works.

otoh, back when I used to use RAID - about a decade ago - I added the 3 RAID driver components and edited the 2 or 3 setup text files and burned a new XP disc, which then installed the RAID drivers at the beginning of setup. I've no doubt you can do this with AHCI too (though maybe you'd still have to begin in IDE mode. However, on my AMD system, these days it appears to be the same driver as for RAID, e.g. X:\AMD\RAID\Driver\WinXP\x64\ahcix64.*). I haven't made an AHCI XP disc because it's more trouble than it's worth if you almost never actually boot XP.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @ Shufflemoomin

mint will require post-installation nvidia driver addition.

That's the 2nd or 3rd post-installation install I do in Mint KDE. 1st one is WiFi - via Github, which is initially accessible with the connection repeatedly dropping. For the nvidia driver I fire up Software Manager. It's easy but a problem for newbs.

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Re: I am not a fucking product.

Microsoft is basically trying to punch you in the bollocks (or jiggly things if you're a lady) and saying you must conform. Wait. Isn't that tone of all their advertising. Windows 10 must be on your device. Your child will be using Windows. So you must use Windows.

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"Thanks to UEFI it's very difficult to boot linux these days,"

Er, no it isn't

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Anonymous Coward

"Microsoft can suck it, but Linux is far from the easy experience some people make it out to be."

All I can say is two years ago I built a PC for my (retired and computer-illiterate) parents a PC based on Intel's Z87 platform. Under Linux Mint 16, It really was a case of insert install media, poke next until complete, reboot, and everything just worked without any poking needed [drivers for the IGP, Realtek LAN & audio were all just found and worked] ... Parents haven't had any issues whilst running it, either ... *shrugs*

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Same here, on two wildly differing PCs. It Just Works!!!

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Silver badge

Re: Abusive spouse.

Its an extended family of abused people. The support people are abused too and have to pay a fortune for a certificate which they can take to you to help you self abuse further. And then you get people who tell you to keep your mouth shut because who else can you go to for help abusing yourself and so you even feel guilty of trying to break the abuse cycle.

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Re: remove the option to turn off Secure Boot manually in the BIOS

If this becomes a significant problem I expect some clever people will just hack the BIOS.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: when Secure Boot can't be turned off

This should surprise no one. Does anyone know of any motherboard manufactures who still build a BIOS only motherboard?

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Re: building up the courage to take the decision

As others have said - find a live boot distro that works OK with your hardware, install it on your HDD, then get Windows running in a VM. Now you can migrate at your leisure. For the more cautious among you, use a clean HDD to do this, so you can just put the Windows one back if it doesn't work out or it takes more than one weekend to get everything sorted.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I am not a fucking product.

Perhaps 2016 will finally be the year of you know what on the desktop.

DOS/360?

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Silver badge

> Apple's curated service is worth the money for many

.. and can be turned off easily. Which I do...

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