back to article Come in Internet Explorers, your time is up. Or not. Up to you

A huge chunk of Microsoft users will today be cut off from the computing giant’s security lifeline, for January 12 is the day when Redmond will stop releasing security fixes for a swathe of legacy versions of Internet Explorer. Extended support has finished for IE8, 9 and 10 on Windows 7 SP1. Only the following are still …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Plenty of time.

    I am proud to say the 7000 employee organisation I work for pushed out the IE11 upgrade to our desktops yesterday, the 11th of January.

    I love ITIL Change Processes!

    1. MyffyW Silver badge

      Re: Plenty of time.

      To be honest @AC you're ahead of the FTSE 100 that I work at who are still mulling whether they should get off IE9.

      Not so much ITIL getting in the way as plain old corporate lethargy, and nothing short of writing "UPGRADE" across the bathroom mirrors in scarlet lippy seems to get through.

  2. adnim
    Meh

    If

    Microsoft had produced standards compliant browsers from the get go, instead of trying and succeeding in many cases of forcing devs into a proprietary corner....

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: If

      FWIW

      At the time of launch Internet Explorer 6's interpretation of the box model did comply with the standard. It's just that the standard was subsequently changed. IE 6 also gave the world the XMLHttpResponse hook that we all now use to update pages without a complete refresh.

      No, Microsoft's biggest mistake was in tying IE into the OS. This meant that what should have been fairly simple browser updates became OS updates. Hence, the oddity of IE 9 being kept around for Vista even thought its immediate successor, IE 10, is for the chop.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: If

        What tying? FWIW, the "oddity" you mention is the only case where it was necessary to upgrade the OS in order to get the latest IE and the fact that Microsoft's HTML support is part of the OS has never prevented third parties from offering alternative browsers with their own rendering engines.

        Oh, and it is hard to talk about Microsoft's "mistakes" in this area when their strategy of turning the browser into a platform succeeded so well that it knocked every other browser vendor out of the market for several years.

        They may be evil but give them credit where it's due -- they are (or were) good at being evil.

        1. ben_myers

          Re: The Tying of IE to the OS

          Microsoft embedded IE deeply into the Windows XP operating system, rather than sandboxing it, in response to the US DOJ and EU anti-trust actions against Microsoft for not giving the Netscape, Opera and any other browsers a fair chance to compete. Microsoft was thus able to say with a straight metaphoric face to technology-phobic judges and regulators that its browser was truly a part of the operating system, as it became.

          Microsoft further peed in all of our soup (popular Slavic metaphor) by taking Sun's Java, integrating it into IE, BUT co-opting Java by changing it to suit its own megalomaniacal desires for world domination.

          We all paid for this foolish mistake, because it made XP far more vulnerable to outside intrusions than otherwise.

          Microsoft peed in our soup some more by force-feeding the Microsoft IE development way down the throats of gullible corporate web developers. I'm sure that along the way, there were some close talks with deaf-dumb-and-blind technology-wise corporate bigwigs, taking a page from IBM's FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) book. Y'know you can't go wrong with IBM (back in the dark ages) or Microsoft. So now major financial, airline and other large institutions are totally screwed, left with legacy code that will never ever run with Edge or IE 11 in a thousand years.

          What tangled webs Microsoft weaves, ensnaring us all, as well as itself. Then they complain that nobody is moving quickly enough to the bright and shiny Edge.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The Tying of IE to the OS

            The only reason MS "Java" was a threat to Sun was because it was so much better.

            The only reason you're using Java at all is because the improvements MS made in run speed and capability forced Sun to try to keep up.

            And, as we can see now, the mistake MS made with IE5 and Win95 was being 20-30 years too early in the integrated model now popularised by Android and IOS.

      2. Mark Simon

        Re: If

        “IE 6 also gave the world the XMLHttpResponse hook …’

        Not entirely true. XMLHttpResponse was implemented as an ActiveX object, and you had to sort your way through 4 different versions to properly get one working. All other browsers implemented it directly in the browser, and it was only IE7 – unbelievably long after IE6 – which followed suit, which made IE the last browser to do so.

        True what you say about the mistake of tying the browser to the OS. It meant, for example, that the only up-to-date (at the time) browser not available to Windows XP was IE, and Microsoft were telling every one that this is because XP didn’t have the technology required to make newer version work, even though everyone else succeeded.

  3. tiggity Silver badge

    ongoing fixes

    "Microsoft has begun offering Custom Support Agreements to major organisations ... The deals mean those paying Microsoft get tailored security patches and fixes."

    Not really tailored is it.

    Surely, this actually means:

    MS is still fixing nasty security bugs for officially retired software, however you only get them if you pay up.

    Are you sure the C preceding Support Agreements should not instead be Cosa Nostra, as very much pay up or no protection.

    1. adnim

      Re: ongoing fixes

      Not quite, MS have realised that their attempt to make the Internet proprietary in the early years has resulted in many businesses being tied to non standards compliant versions of IE. On the whole for most of these businesses it is cheaper to pay MS for support rather than recode for standards compliance. MS are simply taking the piss advantage of the situation.

      Most corporates are non ethical companies where the client is the product, MS are no different. They may have failed in turning the Internet into an extension of Microsoft. And they probably did not plan or foresaw this situation... But one can bet they are rubbing their hands together now as the Windows OS and IE become less and less relevant.

  4. tony2heads

    Stuck with old IE?

    Just pick another browser! There are plenty to choose from:

    Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari, Vivaldi.

    Some even have decent ad-blockers.

    1. Titus Aduxass
      FAIL

      Re: Stuck with old IE?

      Of course! Just install another browser, why *didn't* we think of that? I mean what could possibly go wrong?

      The fact that many of our line-of-business legacy applications then cease to work is neither here nor there.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Titus Aduxass

          Re: Stuck with old IE?

          "And for how many years have you known about that situation and done nothing to mitigate it?"

          Seems like forever my old chum. And no matter how many times we've pointed out the need for comprehensive rewrites the money's never been there.

          People assume it's just fixing a few lines of javascript and bit of CSS...

          1. Fatman
            Joke

            Re: Stuck with old IE?

            <quote>And no matter how many times we've pointed out the need for comprehensive rewrites the money's never been there because keeping the Executive Bonus Pool completely funded is a higher priority of the C-suite executives</quote>

            There FTFY!!!!

        2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: Stuck with old IE?

          And for how many years have you known about that situation and done nothing to mitigate it?

          No reason to be smug. Yes, there are loads of "legacy" apps essentially written for Active X that should never have seen the light of day. While you might find sys admins on this list who have to manage such systems, you're unlikely to find the golf-playing fuckwits who took the decision to buy or commission such sites so many years ago. Most also didn't come with the source code so reimplementing them is more or less impossible. And actually running them in a special VM is probably the best solution until alternatives come around.

          But there are also more legitimate cases. For example, US export restrictions on encryption meant that many countries (including US allies like South Korea) couldn't get a browser with more than 128-bit encryption without using a browser plugin. The American government actively restricting strong encryption. Now, who'd have thunk it?

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

            1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

              Re: Stuck with old IE?

              I don't see anything here asking for continued support. I do see one or two people trying to explain why that is an issue. Specifically, they are trying to explain it to the holier than thou fuckwits who reckon that because you took a sysadmin's job that involved MS kit you are also taking on moral responsibility for the state of that kit.

              For most of the techy population, turning round and getting another job isn't the easy option that some would like to believe.

            2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: Stuck with old IE?

              " Anyone who decides not to do so is just putting off the inevitable."

              This is true but it's unlikely to be anyone prepared to listen to a sysadmin let alone working as one.

              1. BongoJoe

                Re: Stuck with old IE?

                I see my comment "what if the code was written by someone else?" was downvoted. Without explanation as to why.

                I have a client who is in the travel business. They deal with a lot of suppliers, i.e. people who supply things like airlines, railways and the like who are abroad.

                They have to use these people because quite simply the state airline/railway/whatever runs the monopoly in that country. And one of these suppliers has their only interface via an ActiveX plug in which can only work on IE6.

                My client doesn't have access to the code but they have requested many a time for an alternative but the foreign state run supplier isn't going to give an alternative any year soon for whatever reason they have that they're not sharing with my client. So my client is stuck with having to use IE6 because of this.

                This is where the holier-than-thou attitude of people who say "you have had time to fix it" annoys me. My client has had zero time to fix it because they have had zero chance of replacing code written by someone else for someone else in another part of the globe.

                And I ask again; why was my comment "What if the code were written by someone else?" downvoted?

        3. BongoJoe

          Re: Stuck with old IE?

          What if the code has been written by someone else?

    2. steamnut

      Re: Stuck with old IE?

      But what about those websites that, for some reason, insist on IE browsers? XP users are stuck. Some IE-only sites do seem to be fooled by IE mode in Firefox. Some websites still reject Linux clients.

      I though the whole idea of browsers was that there would be a universal acceptance regardless of platform or supplier?

  5. a_mu

    microsoft being popular

    Were our own worst enemies.

    IE has been so none standard, but popular that we have all written lots of get arounds for its problems.

    But those get arounds just don't work on standard complaint browsers.

    But were lazy, under time pressure, and only coded for the most likely browser.

    now we all have code that only runs in versions of IE ,

    and no money to change code base / big risk.

    As for using other browsers,

    well , I don't know about your company, but the big ones I see fix the code set, don't allow people to update software or run what they want to, so users can't change.

    greatest thought I heard from a manager was "why can't we 'JUST' run the version of IE we want inside a new version of IE", sort of virtual mode ! !!!!

  6. kaiserb_uk
    FAIL

    I wouldn't mind but...

    190 machines needed the update, pushed it out via WSUS, and 70-odd have failed with a 9C47 error (easy enough to fix, just download and reinstall KB2729044, it'll say it's already installed but then IE11 will magically work). Super. head/desk

  7. Howard Hanek
    Mushroom

    Other Benefits

    Hopefully, this could possibly spell the total collapse of the North Korean military machine......

    1. iMap

      Re: Other Benefits

      Didn't know IE affected DPRK linux, learn something new every day..

      Surely not a western OS in NK?

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: Other Benefits

        They use a version of Linux that's locked down to hell by the government. Red Star OS I think, not all that sure if it's still in development (probably isn't).

        But the government probably use Windows, it's just they don't pay for it.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "regular updates as a vital part of basic internet security"

    correction: "a vital part of basic MS surveillence"

  9. Chris King

    Enterprise Mode

    If you're stuck with IE8-era apps (especially ones with ActiveX controls that won't run on more recent versions of IE) and you need to move to IE11, Enterprise Mode might be worth a look.

    (Sorry, this isn't available on the "Home" versions of Windows, but Pro/Enterprise/Ultimate versions all have it)

  10. NotWorkAdmin

    RMDMO user (Royal Mail Despatch Manager Online)

    Interestingly, when run in Microsoft Edge, RMDMO complains I should use Internet Explorer, and not Google Chrome 42.x.

  11. captain veg Silver badge

    Rejoice! Rejoice!

    Where I work is an outpost of an American company. They (the Merkins) keep telling us that using out-of-support software is a no-no for "compliance" reasons, by which I think they are talking about Sarbanes-Oxley. I am assuming, therefore, that all the old and deeply broken versions of IE are now verboten in the organisation, and will happily fail to give them any consideration whatsoever from now on.

    Happy days ahead!

    -A.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Rejoice! Rejoice!

      I suspect you'll find that some out-of-support software is more verboten than other… Then again larger companies that know they have a problem that can't be solved with IE 11 enterprise mode are probably more than willing to pony up for extra support as it's probably a lot cheaper than getting the stuff rewritten.

    2. a_yank_lurker

      Re: Rejoice! Rejoice!

      Depending on your industry Sarbenes-Oxley may be a minor annoyance.

  12. GarethJ
    Trollface

    But....

    But, I thought that IE6 was the browser to beat all browsers and you would not need another, well that's what MS told us at the time.

  13. s. pam Silver badge
    Boffin

    I'd say the bookies should make a mint

    Holding book on which banks get pwned first for still running IE6 and IE7 although I know a UK bank with instances of IE5 still in place!

  14. Charlie Clark Silver badge
    FAIL

    What kind of survey?

    1000 users? Worse than useless. Not sure why you even bothered quoting the source. Haven't you got your own? What are the numbers for your own visitors? Or, visiting US government websites? Or from Akamai's data?

    1. captain veg Silver badge

      Re: What kind of survey?

      A thousand is plenty, provided that the sampling is not skewed. The article states that it was a survey, not data culled from web logs.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_interval

      -A.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: What kind of survey?

        There is not the slightest possibility that the sampling is not skewed. For starters, it is skewed in favour of those with nothing better to do with their time than answer a survey, unless they paid for the data in which case it is skewed towards those for whom that level of payment is higher than their normal hourly rate and towards those who don't know what "hourly rate" means.

        This line of argument, of course, applies to all surveys. Doesn't mean it ain't true.

  15. Sporkinum

    Enterprise mode.

    They just rolled out IE11 wither enterprise mode here, and we still have legacy stuff that won't run. The other day I was able to get something to work in Chrome that wouldn't work in IE11, but did wourk in IE 9.

  16. nilfs2
    Trollface

    IE is good for just one task...

    ...downloading another browser

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A huge chunk of Microsoft users will today be cut off from the computing giant’s security lifeline

    I wonder how many of those won't even notice it.

  18. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
    Linux

    Grandpa ..... what is Internet Explorer?

  19. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

    "“Unfortunately, it appears that the majority of internet users still don’t recognise regular updates as a vital part of basic internet security,” he said."

    This is for two reasons:

    1) Newer != Better

    2) Microsoft has compromised trust in the Windows Update system by mightily abusing it to push spyware, nagware and even an entire operating system on us unwanted. If we use automatic updates then Microsoft has succeeded in costing us money and stolen our privacy against our will.

    Windows Update is not a trusted update source. I completely understand people taking their time to update, or simply choosing not to altogether.

    And the trust, once broken...can it ever be rebuilt?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IE5.5

    Had to rollback from IE6 to IE5.5, because a lot of websites (particularly MS websites) are disabled if you use IE6.

  21. Mark 85

    IE11.... Meh

    There are sites (including a chunk of MS's) where copy/paste won't work in the forums. This has been brought their attention many times, by many people and the answer is always the same: NOP*. Those of us that need that access are now running alternative browsers... Firefox or Chrome. Some are just sticking with IE10 and keeping their fingers crossed.

    I suspect that given MS's attitude towards problems (and the Win10 nagware and all their underhandedness with that) that they really don't give a crap. Makes me wonder if they have a plan to monetize some version of Linux or....????

    *NOP -- Not Our Problem

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