Uber wants UK gov intervention over TfL’s '5-minute wait' rule Uber has indicated that it would seek an intervention from the UK government if Transport for London was to force the controversial taxi/app company to introduce a "five minute wait" rule. The proposals for a forced delay time were suggested in September, as part of plans that would amount to a clampdown by the regional …
Maybe. How would you feel if they opened the immigration floodgates to people with your particular paid for skillset and thus totally fucked your income? Not saying I agree or don't agree, but people do tend to have an "it doesn't affect me negatively so who cares" attitude. First they came for the cab drivers?
@Mark 65 No, first they did not come for the taxi drivers. You are commenting on an article in post on site focused on a market that it in many ways has been outsourced to India. My guess is that being under cut is the name of the game for many of the readers on this site. Has adding more competition been terrible for UK IT? For some individuals the answer is definitely 'yes' but the UK economy probably does better because of the use of outsourced IT skills.
Has the economy benefited from by cheaper good from China or Bangladesh? Probably yes and again to the detriment of some individuals here. Are we better off as a result of farm mechanisation though many individuals were affected at the time? Definitely, yes. So why should London taxi cab drivers be immune from the winds of change?
Read the post again dude. I specifically said I didn't agree or disagree but noted that people seem to have a don't give a fuck attitude when it doesn't directly affect their income detrimentally. Incidentally, as you mention offshoring, they are also pretty bloody quick to whine about shit like that on here. That's the point I'm trying to make to the OP - instead of just labelling them communists they might want to consider how they'd react to their job being handed over to a cut price end-run around the visa system in a slack labour market as an equivalent action.
Actually most people only worry about the practical difficulties of outsourcing - language barrier, quality control, the back and forth of requirements refinement over long distances and between timezones.
The standard thinking here is if you want to survive, add value. And that's what we do :)
> Uber have a habit of bending (or ignoring) laws wherever they operate and then whinge mightily when they get slapped, demanding said laws are changed to favour them.
You're not wrong.
In this case, however, a new explicitly anti-Uber law is being proposed to enter the statute. That's pretty mean, and we have a right to expect more mature behaviour from our legislators.
There are loads of apps you can use to book private hire vehicles in London. Über is not unique, and it wasn't the first. With other apps, you get quoted a price for the journey, or in some cases, you get a selection of quotes from different hire companies that you can pick from. That's how private hire is supposed to be different to taxis. Über have this thing-that-is-not-a-meter to calculate the cost of the journey as it is in progress.
> "Frankly we were puzzled as to why TfL are introducing laws explicitly designed to damage our business model and make customers wait an artificially long time for their ride so that traditional taxis don't seem so God awful", Uber’s UK head of policy Andrew Byrne told MPs today.
There, FTFY.
"said the biggest impact Uber was having is traffic congestion"
Yeah, right. That's the only reason the black cabs don't like it, more congestion, absolutely nothing to do with taking business away.
[N.B. I am no fan of Uber as a company or the founders, however I think inventing rules just to try to force a company from operating rather than a rule because that company is doing something wrong is not reasonable. If they feel Uber is unsafe then address that, if they think that using a GPS is not effective as a means of route finding then address that but don't introduce a rule specifically to penalise a company due to lobbying by another company.]
Introducing a forced 5 minute delay will increase the average trip time (though by less than 5 minutes). To achieve the same number of trips per day will thus require _more_ cars. This will increase the congestion.
In theory the Uber mechanism should decrease wait time, and thus average trip time (when calculated from customer starting to want to make the trip) compared to other mechanisms. Thus there should be a decrease in the number of cars required for a given number of trips. However, having a more efficient system increases the demand. For example, if the service time drops below the time taken to walk to the destination then more will take the service.
> "Richard Massett, chairman of the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association, said the biggest impact Uber was having is traffic congestion."
Have there been any news stories about all this new congestion brought about by Uber?
Seems to me the real biggest impact is on the taxi cartel itself. (cue world's smallest violin...)
However, Richard Massett, chairman of the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association, said the biggest impact Uber was having is traffic congestion. He said in 2013 there were 50,000 private hire vehicles on the road, with that number now reaching 91,000
Do you remember the Black Cab drivers association spouting similar when the number of taxi badges was increased
There isn't any restriction on the number of taxi licences that can be issued. Anyone who passes the very difficult exam can get one, and you can't sell it or rent it out to anyone else. It takes longer to study for it and is more difficult to pass than a university degree, but the restriction is based on ability, not numbers.
"Ooh! Nice shirt."
"Yeah, I got it from Ye Olde Primarketh for a couple of Groats"
"A couple of Groats, you must be kidding. Weaver Bob is charging two Crowns and buttons are extra"
"What can I say, except, welcome to the modern world"
"You know, I think going about bare chested will soon be going out of fashion."
A Black Cab can be flagged down in the street and instantly engaged.
A private hire taxi must be prebooked. This historically meant a phone call and a wait, however technology has reduced this wait to virtually nothing, effectively a Uber car has similar privileges to a Black cab.
The 5 min rule is a way to redress this.
I have many fond memories of a night out in London whereby every black cab travelling past after about 7-9pm had the light off with nobody in them (except the driver). If they didn't think you looked too pissed, or you wouldn't cause any issues the light would quickly flick on and they'd pull over. You were then subjected to the "I'm headed back to Hounslow mate" test. If there were two or more blokes you were likely shit outta luck.
That's part of the plans which would amount to a clampdown, which is all in the second paragraph cunningly hidden behind the link labelled plans that would amount to a clampdown.
"The proposals include stricter controls on insurance and tighter controls on private hire bookings, such as forcing operators to provide booking confirmation details to the passenger at least five minutes prior to the journey."
Ironically, in London it might take 5 minutes to get an Uber because of the congestion of , y'know, cars!
If you have never used Uber you can sign up online, with a fake name, and throwaway debit card, and just watch the uber cars in your area.
I was recently on a trip and the Uber driver overshot my hotel by 4 miles (long roads etc..). I made a note in my feedback, and got a credit *immediately* for the difference which they recalculated back to my hotel.
If anyone reading here knows of *any* cab firm that can do that, we would all love to hear about it.
Uber isn't the problem; it is the historical govt over-regulation to protect a narrow financial interest, with artifical scarcity.
I don't like them flaunting the laws either, but taxis are a generally an *awful* experience.
P.
No I have to say I was all for cabs and disliking Ubers practices I still do think Uber needs some things sorted.
But my last two cab rides:
Overcharged on one, when reported basically got an ah well.
Got charged (metered) for a 3 mile journey £13.00
Might actually try Uber next time,
Never heard of them but will have a look. Live a bit in the sticks so don't use cabs much. Tried to avoid using uber for their business practices, and odd though it may sound have had some very nice encounters with black cab drivers when living round London. But the cabbies round here haven't done themselves any favours.
Thank you for being needlessly rude. I've no doubt that the link "cunningly concealed" in the second paragraph would have answered my question, but I have this quaint notion that an article should adequately explain the meaning of its headline within its own rubric, not require the reader to traipse off elsewhere to reach understanding. It might be called journalistic courtesy, if you will.
Now, you may argue (and I might myself, with respect to other articles on this very site) that there is an exemption to this convention where topics upon which the paper's baseline readership may be considered more knowledgeable than the lay-person are concerned. However, it seems to me that this particular nugget is more likely to be well-known by regular users of taxis and/or private cabs, which hasn't to date struck me as a precondition of Reg readership, though I don't doubt it intersects somewhat. Personally, I ride the bus or my bike because cabs of any species are a luxury to me.
Thanks to you and other commentards for doing the reporter's job for them, though. You are awfully good. :)
How would it be legally determined that the 5 minutes was properly observed? What's to stop Uber drivers and passengers from silently colluding to avoid that wait?
Oh yeah, sting operations. It's just like when female cops dress up like hookers and stand on the corner, and they'll want the same thing as well: To get in the car, fast.
Burn rubber, baby!
"How would it be legally determined..."
Oh FFS, Uber's big claim is they are a tech company, not a taxi company. You put a <wait 300> in the booking routine so that the driver isn't despatched for the pickup for five minutes. If a tech company can't implement a solution to confirm their legal compliance with the rules then what chance has anyone got.
You put a <wait 300> in the booking routine so that the driver isn't despatched for the pickup for five minutes.
Erm, I don't see how that would work.
As far as I am aware, the process is:
- You request an Uber in the app
- The request is sent to taxis which are not in use, which see where you are and where you are wanting to go
- The driver either confirms they will take the job or not
- You are notified that the driver is on it's way
To insert a 5 minute delay would probably mean they have to just delay the time when they are allowed to "start the meter" until 5 mins after they accepted the job. So, the taxi would turn up, you would get in, then have to wait another 3 minutes before they are allowed to set off. I'm sure that would help London's congestion problems, wouldn't it?!
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"However, Richard Massett, chairman of the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association, said the biggest impact Uber was having is traffic congestion. He said in 2013 there were 50,000 private hire vehicles on the road, with that number now reaching 91,000"
So, Uber accounts for 20,000, or a little less than half of the 41,000 increase in private hire vehicles, many of which do not work exclusively for Uber.
Arrrrrgh, there's just so much wrong with all of those statements.
Seems like the insurance and other regulations which uber don't want to apply to them as they aren't a taxi service are a much better target to pursue them on.
Historically the monopoly for black cabs exists because they have more rules (and therefore higher costs) to follow and many of those rules are deemed worth having (disabled access, safety regulations etc.)
This 5mins is just a misguided attempt to tilt the playing field back in the cabbies favour when they Should be arguing for a level playing field, same regulations and costs for all.
I may be entirely wrong here, but I always thought that your insurance company would not cover your car if you used it for private hire unless you'd specifically taken out a policy geared for such. Does Uber truly enforce this insurance requirement or can drivers get away with just having normal personal use insurance, in which case occupants would likely be uninsured in the event of an accident?
You can make a lot of cheese in "a few" years. Or, at minimum, a good sales pitch for some gullible idiots like Yahoo or Justin Timberlake...
Besides, self-driving cabs are likely to have a human at the where-the-wheel-used-to-be for a good while thereafter, what with labour protectionism, safety concerns and such. They just won't be paid as much.
"Hi! I'm Johnny Cab. Please say your destination, not that I give a monkey's since you already told SiriNowCortana before you got in. Do you mind if we stop at the charging-station for a pasty and some haemorrhoid cream?"
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