back to article Microsoft offers to PAY YOU to trade in your old computer for a Windows 10 device

Microsoft has, for a limited period only, offered to pay up to £100 to convince UK consumers to part with their old computers in exchange for a Windows 10 device. If a customer is willing to shell out at least £499 on a PC running Redmond's latest operating system, then the company said it would stump up £100 to encourage …

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Now you know how much your privacy is worth

The OS with embedded spyware is free, and they can afford to give you this much on top. That money comes from somewhere.

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FAIL

Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

The OS with embedded spyware is free

Nope. As elsewhere, the first hit is free. After the first year, you'll be required to stump up a subscription fee.

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

What nonsense are you peddling? There is no monthly subscription fee.

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

...Yet.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

You can probably run an Xbox One or Playstation 4 without paying a monthly fee, but you'll get a much cut-down experience.

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Facepalm

Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

Terry Myerson, Microsoft's Executive Vice President of Operating Systems, said "Windows 10 changes the rules of the game and redefines the relationship between us and our customers". In his blog, Myerson goes on to say "with Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time. We’ll deliver new features when they’re ready, not waiting for the next major release. We think of Windows as a Service".

And you expect these "new features" will be free to the user? That your base W10 install from today will keep running the latest and greatest software if you don't install these features? Features you'll have to pay for because, you know, they've cost money to develop and deploy; features you haven't paid for through your W7 or W8 license? That you can disable the telemetry hoohah without your system karking sooner or later, unless you pay for the option? The shareholders want a steady and predictable flow of money into Microsoft's coffers, so MS has to get money out of you not just once, but periodically. Maybe the consumer Windows stuff will be last to change to this model, but everything else is changing, or has changed.

You're free to suffer the redefined relationship between Microsoft and their customers victims. Mine ended twenty years ago, and good riddance.

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

Sadly, I must agree. Since Windows 10 computers must accept updates, a subscription fee for Windows cannot be eliminated as a possibility somewhere down the road.

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Holmes

Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

Whether or not the OS core requires a direct debit to function, its apps do... and you want your WinX computer to do something... don't you?...

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

"subscription fee for Windows cannot be eliminated as a possibility somewhere down the road"

Neither can Linux. You're making assumptions based on faulty data. One where Microsoft sees consumer desktop OS sales as part of it's revenue stream. It doesn't and it's debatable if it really ever has - and if it chooses to going forwards there is competition out there for people who don't want it.

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FAIL

Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

Neither can Linux.

Linux is licensed so that it can not be non-free. Simple as that.

There are distros that require a support fee; Red Hat is one. Fair enough; support costs money, and if you don't care for support, then use another one. Also, don't confuse a distro with 'Linux'

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Trollface

Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

a subscription fee for Windows cannot be eliminated as a possibility somewhere down the road

I think Nightcall on repeat is best as the new Windows Theme Song.

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

@ Stoneshop

No, nope. The price for an upgrade copy of Windows 10 is $0.00 USD. This is for a PERPETUAL license. A year from now they will raise the upgrade's price to probably something like $89.00 USD. Neither price, the 0.00 nor the 89.00 is a subscription price. They are one time prices on a perpetual license, not for a subscription. So, it's just a matter of timing: earlier adopters simply pay less for their perpetual license than people who decide to upgrade a year from now.

Where does Microsoft make its money here? Well, there's a price for Windows 10 on all new systems right now already, hidden in the price of the new computer; there are secondary purchases, e.g. when someone buys a license to Office, or a subscription to Office 365; there are all manner of other software Microsoft sells that runs on Windows, premium services and so on.

The deal on Windows 10 right now sets up a large eco-system of computers and devices running Windows 10, which in turn provides plenty of opportunities for Microsoft (and other companies).

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

There is also "advertising" which has been mentioned on these august pages but not discussed much. I read of several people finding that the "games" packaged in Win10 have ads. Want to get rid of the ads, pay a monthly bribe...err.. stipend.

People can scream all they want about Win10, etc. being "free!!!!" but ain't no such thing as a free lunch... TANSTAFL. They are a corporation with dollar signs for eyes and they will extract their pound of cash one way or the other. The problem is, they haven't told how they will extract that. The insight is in 3rd party SaS which boils down to ads, subscription, or a combination of those.

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

And Centos and several others are Red Hat without Red Hat branding and support

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Holmes

Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

@Tidysweep

The price for an upgrade copy of Windows 10 is $0.00 USD. This is for a PERPETUAL license.

Where "perpetual" means "until we drop support for it, a couple of years from now". Sure, you can still use it forever after that. On a non-networked machine, with its RJ45 jack and USB sockets epoxied shut.

But I didn't contest that. There will be add-ons and improvements not covered by your current W10 license, and at some point these add-ons will turn out to be required to run most of your software. Stuff you need to license separately. Stuff you may need to pay for, or pay to unlock all capabilities. Stuff that's add-driven unless you pay. And Microsoft won't be claiming your firstborn in payment for these add-ons, just a reasonable fee. Per add-on, AND per year. You'll be suffering the death by a thousand cuts.

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

As long as I had basic PSN Store Access + Game Updates, which usually tended to be free anyway. Then thats more then enough for me. I don't do online BS Gaming sans Gran Turismo, but that's just for the single player events. I don't know how S0NY plan on addressing that for GT7, but if just being able to play that like I have & had with GT6 & GT5. Then S0NY can graciously shove it where the Sun don't shine.

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Re: Now you know how much your privacy is worth

It sure does change the relationship between M$ and it's customers. M$ has taken on the role of the proctologists and the customer is bent over waiting to get probed each and every time they use a windows 10 computer or they interact with anyone else using a windows 10 computer. They quite simply are desperate to get enough numbers out there to try a fend off a block on their windows 10 botnet.

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Anonymous Coward

If you really - really have to run Windows 10

Why not install it on your Macbook?

I love the pictire of happy MS Campers. They must be cheering as their first customer of the day goes into the store.

Perhaps their euphoria will be short lived as said punter asks...

"can you direct me to the Apple Store please?"

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Happy

Re: If you really - really have to run Windows 10

> I love the picture of happy MS Campers.

They are about to get Mac books for a bargain price!

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Windows

Re: If you really - really have to run Windows 10

That picture of paid-for spasming, "dancing" youthful beerbellys makes me rage for no particular reason and I have fantasies of going all Taxi Driver on these people's arse. I want to see the pink mist!

Must be my age showing. Or maybe my habitude of being tortured by Microsoft while they laugh at me through addies.

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Re: If you really - really have to run Windows 10

> Must be my age showing.

"age" --> "sanity".

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Re: If you really - really have to run Windows 10

@AC

This should have been this week's photo in the caption contest!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/16/win_6tb_western_digital_black_hard_drive/

Don't get me wrong, a young woman doing yoga is nice to look at...

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Re: If you really - really have to run Windows 10

Every time I think about watching commercials while watching a show of any kind, Something like these kinds of commercials put me right out the cultural mainstream. Again.

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Re: If you really - really have to run Windows 10

Most frequent request of Window's Store patrons:

"Where's the restroom?"

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Re: If you really - really have to run Windows 10

The operating system isn't called 'Window' and neither are its owners. So you don't get a 'Window's Store'.

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"Normal signs of use" image

So it is normal to break off that stupid "Windows key" from the keyboard? Good to have that officially. Mine is the keyboard with free space between the control and alt keys.

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: "Normal signs of use" image

"Windows key"

Unicomp, Purveyors of Damn Fine Keyboards, offers alternatives for their products.

(icon, because their keyboards can handle that)

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Re: "Normal signs of use" image

Thanks. Looking at their web page, I pretty much see the picture of the keyboard I am using now (and have been for more than a decade). Another maker (Key Tronic), though.

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Paris Hilton

Re: "Normal signs of use" image

What about the "eni key" ?

(Press any key to continue).....

(Paris, still looking for the automatic cupholder on her PC)

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Anonymous Coward

Wow

They really, really really want to encourage people aboard the Titanic, don't they?

Actually, though, there's a bit of shrewdness there as well. When someone retires a laptop in favour of a new one, it is usually available to a knowledgeable relative or friend who can revitalise it with Linux. Taking out that option must help at least a little bit.

And of course, most traded-in laptops will have their hard drives intact - free data for slurping, no dodgy telemetry updates required.

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Re: Wow

"Actually, though, there's a bit of shrewdness there as well. When someone retires a laptop in favour of a new one, it is usually available to a knowledgeable relative or friend who can revitalise it with Linux. Taking out that option must help at least a little bit."

Indeed - and the higher price for Apple gear is also a shrewd move: It's not because they value Apple gear higher (although I realise Kelly probably said that with tongue firmly in cheek), it's because they're offering a little more to try and get Apple-types to jump ship.

"And of course, most traded-in laptops will have their hard drives intact - free data for slurping, no dodgy telemetry updates required."

I was going to say that! :)

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Re: Wow

"They really, really really want to encourage people aboard the Titanic, don't they?"

No, no that desperate; yet:

"The Trade-in devices you are sending in must be fully operational, undamaged and up to six years old..."

So effectively they are still targeting Win7/8 users. So looks like no takers for my 386-based WfWg laptop...(not it's not connected to the internet because my router doesn't support 10baseT :) )

Neither will they take an almost useless netbook:

" Laptops and ChromeBooks must have a minimum 11.3” display."

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Re: Wow

Oops! That should of been 10Base2 (BNC connected coaxial cable) and not 10BaseT (twisted pair)

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: Wow

"it's because they're offering a little more to try and get Apple-types to jump ship."

ahhahhahahahaha-hhaa-ha-ha-hohohooohoohhoo-no-no-stobbit-stobbit-no-hahaha

[takes deep breath and composes himself]

They expect me to jump back onto the rotten stinking edifice that I am so happy to have jumped off years ago...?! For a mere $300?!

hahahahahaha-haaahhhaaahahoohooohhhoohohahahah-enough-no-argghh-i-cant-take-it-etc

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Anonymous Coward

@Roland6 - Re: Wow

So effectively they are still targeting Win7/8 users.

Oh yes, I think so. It isn't just about increasing Win10 numbers. They really must cut significantly into the Win7 and 8.1 numbers in order to get anything like a reasonable userbase for Windows 10.

So in that context, they won't be coaxing you to scrap your 386.

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Paris Hilton

Re: Wow

You do know that you can get an adaptor for the BNC to connect it to Cat 5?

(Never get rid of anything that still works - and how many WFW viruses are there out there?)

I think Paris is trying to boot CPM.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Wow

"... SHOULD HAAAAAAAVVVVVVEEEEEE!!!!!..."

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Re: Wow

"it's because they're offering a little more to try and get Apple-types to jump ship."

It's because you can sell Macbooks - for money.

Even the bottom end Macbook air sells for $500 refurb, you would be mad to hand over a MBP for $300

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Linux

Re: Wow

"it is usually available to a knowledgeable relative or friend who can revitalise it with Linux."

"It is usually available to a knowledgeable relative or friend who can make it work properly with linux - like it should have done in the first place."

There - fixed it for you.

At least, that's been my usual experience with ms v linux.

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Joke

Re: Wow

Well, killing apple users with laughter and derision will at least remove you from the market place and skew the stats a bit.

Desperate mesures, as they say.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Wow

As long as UEFI hasn't been set so it can ONLY run Windoze.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/windows-10-to-make-the-secure-boot-alt-os-lock-out-a-reality/

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MS are idiots

Microsoft seem to be increasingly clueless as time goes on, there isn't much that engenders bad feeling more that a policy of giving the biggest rebates to the people with the most money. Microsoft...alienating it's customers one dumb idea at a time.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: MS are idiots

Much as I hate M$ they are not idiots. They have worked out that the vast majority of humans are idiots and are incapable for seeing more than 1 month into the future. They are simply cashing in on stupidity. I aim to make a killing next year converting Win 10 machines to Linux when the demands for payment switches on.

Thank you M$ you little geniuses you. xx

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Re: MS are idiots

AC said "I aim to make a killing next year converting Win 10 machines to Linux when the demands for payment switches on."

After Windows 10 trashed my dual-boot laptop I've got two concerns about buying any hardware that's had Windows 10 on it (with a view to installing Linux) :

1. I gather that not all manufacturers are allowing access to disable the UEFI settings and are forcing the computer to allow only secure boot from a pre-defined OS specified in a database embedded in the firmware, which may make installing another OS problematic.

2. Windows 10 messes with the firmware making the bootup process look for C:\Windows\something.exe (this latest bit of MS nastiness was talked about on El Reg a few weeks ago). Since installing Linux Mint to the aforementioned laptop, bootup fails and hangs after a few seconds (there is no drive C: ) so I need to do a soft reboot (Ctrl, Alt, Del) to get it to boot into Linux.

Do you think these problems are surmountable? They look like a strategy to force hardware to be Microsoft Windows only. i.e. deliberately aimed at blocking (or making it difficult) to install Linux on ex-Windows 10 hardware. Thoughts?

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Re: MS are idiots

Aaargs... I am afraid I cannot offer help here (aside from the obvious "Do not buy machines that are locked down by BIOS or other means."). Let me just say that I suffer from "shitty BIOS" right now: power up sometimes works, but mostly only starts the fans. I have to power down and up again to get the fucker booting. Power-off works mostly, when not, I have to cut mains. The BIOS is a nightmarish labyrinth of (for me) undocumented options. I wish it had an option "just be a stupid old-style BIOS". (O/S is Debian, machine is a Fujitsu Celsius W520).

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Re: MS are idiots

@andy non

There are specialist programs which I have used to wipe the CMOS part of the BIOS to remove virus fragments or MSFT code.

See http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: MS are idiots

@Andy Non

Buy new machine from John Lewis (clearance special if possible), attempt upgrade from W10 to Linux - if unsuccessful, return, rinse, and repeat...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: MS are idiots

Just consulted my crystal ball and M$ will be fighting several court cases in the near future. Their behaviour is criminal, hacking machines which don't belong to you is illegal. Forcing people to upgrade against their will is illegal. Forcing new terms and conditions on people who you gave no choice to reject them is illegal. If you think VW is in shit street, wait until the M$ cases start. Buy plenty of pop corn.

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Re: MS are idiots

@Andy Non

I recently upgraded a laptop from W7 to W10 to test some things(*), and the upgrade didn't even touch the bootloader, grub still fires up as usual.

(*) the laptop is only used with linux, but I needed to check if a certain toolchain would still work on W10 for a customer.

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Big Brother

Re: MS are idiots

"If you think VW is in shit street, wait until the M$ cases start"

You seem to be forgetting that M$ has enjoyed exemption from law ever since 1999 when it became the special software dissemination branch of the U$ government in exchange for United States v. Microsoft Corp. going away.

Nothing substantial will be done to curtail U$ strategic interests. There'll just be yet another flurry of conspicuous but ultimately inconsequential noises from Europe.

Watch.

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