back to article Assange™ is 'upset' that he WON'T be prosecuted for rape, giggles lawyer

The Swedish director of public prosecutions, Marianne Ny, has announced that she will end the investigation into Julian Assange's alleged sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. According to an update on her official website, Ny has now "discontinued the investigation of Julian Assange with respect to suspected sexual …

WTF?

WTF?

"He will be very unhappy if the conclusion is that he is the winning party here, he doesn’t see it like that at all: he wants to clear his name."

Then why not go to Sweeden and clear your name?

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Re: WTF?

Isn't it because he's afraid of being extradited to the US if he goes to Sweden; hence the reason he's holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

Isn't it because he's afraid of being extradited to the US if he goes to Sweden

No, that ego-stroking myth has already been thoroughly discredited.

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Re: WTF?

Well. Because the USA has an extraction treaty with the UK. If he left the embassy, he would be arrested and rendered to the USA before he could get to Sweden.

I don't know what to think now. Is he an innocent man on trumped up charges, the victim of dirty tricks by the US government, or some mix of both?

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Re: WTF?

"Is he an innocent man on trumped up charges, the victim of dirty tricks by the US government, or some mix of both?"

Or even - it's ridiculous, I know! - guilty as fuck and has successfully eluded justice?

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Black Helicopters

Re: WTF?

@2Fat2Bald

I can't say I like the guy, but something has smelled fishy since the Swedish charges were levied.

So to answer your question, yes, a little of column A and a bit of column B.

Now the song "One way or another" by Blondie is running through my head.

Black Helicopters...

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WTF?

Re: WTF?

Yes - ISTR that the Swedish prosecutors originally concluded he should be free to go, but then changed their minds (specifically, a more junior prosecutor got overruled). Whether this is uncommon enough to be suspicious, I don't know - someone familiar with the prosecution process in Sweden would need to comment here.

Another question of this sort that I'd be interested to hear answered by the hypothetical Swedish commentard, is whether the vigour with which Assange is being pursued is typical of cases where a suspected sexual offender is outside Sweden, and wanted there for questioning/charging. (I remember at least one organisation supporting victims of sexual offences stated that they cynically welcomed the exceptional efforts in this case.)

While knowing the answers to the above doesn't tell us whether or not he actually did it, it would go a long way to figuring out if there are some deeply sketchy reasons for him being pursued.

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Re: WTF?

something has smelled fishy since the Swedish charges were levied

Only thing smelling fishy is Assange.

If the US wants him they'll ask the UK government not the Swedish one. The UK and US have one of the world's most comprehensive extradition treaties - it's asymmetrical (the bad way for Assange) but you can be assured it exists.

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Re: WTF?

NO - He has asked for and has not been given guarantees, if it was a myth then the he would have been provided with the guarantees.

The U.K. could have ended this years ago, by charging the Sweden for the Police presence out side the Embassy.

It seems to me that the women, named in court as Miss A has a legitimate issue with the way she was treated by Mr Assange but the authorities have shown no desire to properly investigate the matter and this has created two victims Miss A & Mr Assange.

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Re: WTF?

Really? By whom?

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Re: WTF?

william 10,

Your ignorance of UK law is total.

How would we charge Sweden for policing our laws? I suppose we could pass some fancy new law to do so. Although it wouldn't be worth the vellum it was written on in Sweden of course.

And there is no legal mechanism for a UK government to give a guarantee not to prosecute or extradite someone for an unspecified crime - of which no charge currently exists. It would have no validity with the courts. I know nothing about Swedish law, and what their government is allowed to do.

There is also no ministerial discretion in either the European Arrest Warrant, or the US extradition treaty. They are entirely a process for the courts to enforce, only our extradition treaties with everyone else allow for the Home Secretary to have the final word.

We did admittedly give letters of guarantee to certain IRA suspects, as part of the peace process. But that was not legal and therefore done in secret. And only came out as one seems to have been given out to someone in error. The Blair government managed to combine their usual lack of respect for due process and competence again... I don't know if the letters would stand up in court anyway, but of course political influence could be brought to bear on the police and prosecution services to stop any investigation from getting to court in the first place. It was also a rather unique situation, and frankly, Julian Assange just isn't that important.

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"Ego-stroking myth has been discredited"

Oh really? Discrediting it in your own mind doesn't count. The US hasn't said it wants him, but they don't have to say it until the moment he walks outside the door of the Ecuadorian Embassy and the moment they do the extradition treaty would take effect.

If the US really REALLY didn't want him, they could have provided his lawyer with a simple document stating that the US will not seek to prosecute him for anything related to Wikileaks. If I was the UK, spending six million pounds a year "guarding" him, I would have politely asked the US for this document if I thought there was a chance in hell the US has no intention of asking for his extradition.

I think at first Assange may have legitimately been worried not about extradition but rendition. If he just disappeared everyone would have assumed he was in hiding to avoid the Swedish charges. The US has "renditioned" for less than what he's been accused of.

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Re: WTF?

2F2B: I call BULLSHIT! Texas sized!

He had been in the UK under house arrest for how long? Dezember 2010 until he ran away in Feb 2012. So the Brits had over a year to catch and release him. Sorry, even Monty would have been able to plan and perfom that operation.

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Re: "Ego-stroking myth has been discredited"

We all know the worst thing that could happen for Assange is to go to Sweden and found not guilty, and not be extradited. He'd hate to feel that unimportant.

We do, of course, have a serious UK contempt of court/bail jumping issue to deal with first, and that is when he would be extradited if he actually is wanted by our American pals.

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Re: WTF?

>>"No, that ego-stroking myth has already been thoroughly discredited"

By the fact that the USA has never abducted the people it wants even from European countries? By the fact they wouldn't love to get their hands on him? By the fact that Sweden doesn't have an extradition treaty with the USA?

Because it has, they would and it does. Just saying.

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Re: WTF?

@I ain't Spartacus

There is a method for the CPS to inform a person they are not going to prosecute them, it is what is currently being used for that Bin Lorry case up in Scotland. They gave it to the guy so that he would answer the questions put to him by the inquiry without fear of prosecution from his answers.

Of course, the Bin guy has turned out to be a complete and utter bastard who shouldn't have been driving, knew he shouldn't have been driving and is basically tantamount to murder.

The whole thing of this case is just stupid, the Swedish have asked to interview him, the Embassy have kept rejecting their interview, time ran out and suddenly it's "ohhh, but I wanted to clear my name!". On the bright side, as long as he's stuck there, he can't go around raping other women (allegedly).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Ego-stroking myth has been discredited"

If the US really REALLY didn't want him, they could have provided his lawyer with a simple document stating that the US will not seek to prosecute him for anything related to Wikileaks

Don't be ridiculous. Since when does a government provide a document for non-prosecution? That would give the guy a free license to do whatever he wants.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

By the fact that the USA has never abducted the people it wants even from European countries? By the fact they wouldn't love to get their hands on him? By the fact that Sweden doesn't have an extradition treaty with the USA?

Not relevant. Rendition has always been done in the dark, the US cannot afford to do so publicly and the publicity surrounding Assange would make that a political hot potato, not so much for the US as for the country allowing this without proper process.

Secondly, the US has no interest in giving Assange extra martyrdom status. Personally, I think they way they have left Assange alone is a sign that someone over there is for once using their brains.

As for the extradition treaty, that is irrelevant. The UK has far better agreements and tighter collaboration with the US than Sweden. If it was going to happen, the UK is a far better place for it. Sweden simply has the generic agreements in place between most sovereign nations, it's only the UK that has a "special" relationship.

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Re: WTF?

The Swedes wanted to interview him in the embassy... that would have been a start. As it is, with charges being dropped now and possibly in the future, the embassy may say the reason for his asylum will evaporate. Which will lead to his bail problem...

I can believe he's unhappy... he'll have a tough time to play martyr card now.

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Re: WTF?

h4rm0ny, Article II. of the US−Sweden extradition treaty lists all of the offenses for which extradition can be granted. Which of these offenses would the US charge Assange with to allow his extradition from Sweden? (If an offense isn’t on that list, then he can’t be extradited to the US from Sweden because of it.)

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Black Helicopters

Re: WTF?

>>By the fact that the USA has never abducted the people it wants even from European countries?

In the words of the great Willy Wonka, 'Wrong sir! Wrong!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case

Black helo as one was probably used for him and for reminding you, one will probably be used for me..

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Re: WTF?

"Or even - it's ridiculous, I know! - guilty as fuck and has successfully eluded justice?"

This is why he's unhappy about not being able to have these trumped up charges put before a court.

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Re: WTF?

haha Or worse, guilty as fuck and locked up tight in an Ecuadorian Embassy where people keep wondering "How do we get rid of this asshole?"

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Re: WTF?

> Then why not go to Sweeden (SIC) and clear your name?

Who writes this garbage? The answer is completely obvious. And even if he was found guilty he would have spent less than 5 years in a comfortable Swedish jail.

Put your negative, bigoted grunts where they belong.

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Re: WTF?

This is why he's unhappy about not being able to have these trumped up charges put before a court.

Craigness,

You're quite right! He was so desperate to clear his name that he fled the country, went to every legal effort possible in the UK in order to avoid being sent back for his pre-charge interview, and then when that also failed broke bail and ran away again (as close to South America as he could manage). Incidentally costing his "friends" a few hundred grand that they'd put up to cover his bail.

Then he loudly shouted how he was eager to be interviewed in the Ecuadorian embassy, but amazingly, that hasn't happened either! Who would have thought it? Ecuador and/or he, managed to find various excuses as to why the interview couldn't happen until the statute of limitations kicked in.

Now were I an uncharitable chap, I would be mighty suspicious of this series of actions, that has led to him not having to face any of the charges he's apparently so eager to have his day in court about.

If you put an impossible condition on your willingness to do something, that suggests that you are in fact trying to avoid doing it. Being given a legal indemnity against unspecified future charges is impossible. QED...

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Re: WTF?

@AC

No, that ego-stroking myth has already been thoroughly discredited.

Exactly. I always ask Assange supporters the same simple question and they uniformly fail to provide an answer:

Please take a moment to explain why extradition to the US wasn't more of a risk in the UK than it is in Sweden?

The way I see it the risks were at best identical, and at worst manifestly more likely to be extradited from the UK to the US. And he was bumming about here for years before he fled the rape charges.

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Re: WTF?

@Harmony

And which of those things you list does not apply to the UK please?

Oh, I see, they all apply here too, in spades. Assange is not hiding from America, he is hiding from rape allegations and bail jumping.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

Incidentally costing his "friends" a few hundred grand that they'd put up to cover his bail.

I was originally under the impression it was £50k or so, but that was just from one person. You're right, it's more like £340k, from money put together by a lot of people. How's that for pissing in the face of friends?

Ugh.

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Re: WTF?

Assange is not hiding from America, he is hiding from rape allegations and bail jumping.

I don't know. As far as I can see he's more desperately hiding from obscurity...

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Thumb Up

Re: WTF?

Right, right, and right.

For example the Abu Omar case, where a Muslim cleric was abducted from the streets of Milan by CIA operatives.

The US Counterintelligence Analysis Report published under the auspices of the Department of Defense Intelligence Analysis Program (DIAP) which claims Assange is a terrorist supporter who has engaged in cyber-spying. Also, the US justice department's refusal to deny that it has closed the book on any prosecution for these 'offences' by Assange.

Finally https://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/us-sweden-extradition-treaty-14-ust-1845.pdf

Research all these, and then decide if assange is making this all up to boost his ego.

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Thumb Down

Re: "Ego-stroking myth has been discredited"

"The US hasn't said it wants him, but they don't have to say it until the moment he walks outside the door of the Ecuadorian Embassy and the moment they do the extradition treaty would take effect."

If the US REALLY wanted him extradited from the UK they had plenty of time to initiate proceedings while he was appealing the extradition from the UK to Sweden.

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Re: "Ego-stroking myth has been discredited"

they don't have to say it until the moment he walks outside the door of the Ecuadorian Embassy and the moment they do the extradition treaty would take effect

But there's no situation where any of this makes any difference to his legal issues with Sweden. He's guaranteed the US has decided what to do or not to do with with him now so even if Sweden says "nah fuckit" which is unlikely considering the victims would probably turn up at some high level court the next day - he's still royally screwed. If he had any sense at this point he'd be hoping the US wants him and to walk out the door. Sooner whatever sentence he gets starts the sooner he gets out. If he hangs around for another 10 years he's just going to start his sentencing later. I mean it's all completely nonsense anyway but he obviously is incapable of applying logic to his situation if he really believes what he's claiming.

The US has "renditioned" for less than what he's been accused of

The UK has sent special forces into buildings for less than he's accused of, nay, has done. To see he's being treated with the utmost respect and total kid gloves is a HUGE understatement.

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Re: WTF?

Really? As far as the US is concerned, the culprits were their own people selling secrets, many of whom have already been caught and prosecuted. Why care so much about who they sold them to? If not Assange, then it would be someone else. They have been dealing with insiders selling secrets since at least the early cold war days. In any case, if the US wished to kidnap him, then why didn't they do so sometime during the 2 years he was under "house arrest" living in the UK when it would have been dead simple to do so.

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Name clearing

Best way to clear your name would be to man up and go to Sweden to face the charges, instead of running away and hiding.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Name clearing

Not this gender bullshit again.. man up? why, because all women are cowards? or because penises shrink and fall off unless fed a constant diet of bravery?

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Re: Name clearing

I would expect that a man "man up" and that a woman "woman up". The exhortation need not be gender determined, nor involve gender roles. It refers to the difference between a "man" and a "boy": namely that adults are required to accept certain levels of responsibility, especially social responsibility, as a matter of course.

It has nothing to do with bravery. It has everything to do with meeting the obligations of adulthood. And yes, sometimes those obligations require sacrifice - even of one's own life - for the greater good.

"Adult up" would be a possible gender non-determinative, though most people seem to prefer "(wo)man up" when gender is unknown. In this case, gender is known, so Assange needs to man the fuck up.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Name clearing

I always assumed "man up" used 'man' as the shortened form of 'human' (say "human up" if you prefer!).

I also figured it was related to "are you a man or a mouse?"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Name clearing

I always figured that man up, woman up, human up, mouse up or "act like an adult" meant "do this thing that I want you to do, or I will arbitrarily decide that you are not a *real* man/woman/human/mouse/adult".

Don't you know that real scotsmen slap themselves in the face the moment they wake up in the morning?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Name clearing

"I would expect that a man "man up" and that a woman "woman up". The exhortation need not be gender determined, nor involve gender roles. It refers to the difference between a "man" and a "boy": namely that adults are required to accept certain levels of responsibility, especially social responsibility, as a matter of course."

- I accept that generally we are all required to accept certain levels of responsibility as members of a given society, but are you suggesting that the things that Assange stand accused of doing in Sweden, only a man should have to accept responsibility for, and a boy should not, as a matter of course? At which age do you think one has to man up and take responsibility for ones alleged sexual assaults?

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Coat

Re: "real scotsmen slap themselves in the face the moment they wake up in the morning"

I thought that was to dissipate the hangover.

Right, I'm out.

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Re: Name clearing

"Don't you know that real scotsmen slap themselves in the face the moment they wake up in the morning?"

Yes, but the truly remarkable thing is that a real scotsman manages to do it without using his hands - what those fine gentlemen keep under their kilts is more than just a rumour you know.

Speaking of which, I bet Assange feels a right bawbag for not keeping his own haggis* in his breeks now...

*A suitably well endowed man may be adjudged to be the proud owner of a haggis due to the inferred organ content, as in "Fuckin' hell Donald, bet tha's got its awn heart an' lungs!"

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man up

"I also figured it was related to "are you a man or a mouse?""

It's actually basketball court slang. Or was before it was co-opted for general use by street gangs and then used Fungus The Bogeyman style by ordinary people who "assumed" a meaning (without actually checking and without confirming the listener was using a compatible understanding of the phrase's meaning themselves).

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Re: Name clearing

Not this gender bullshit again.. man up? why, because all women are cowards? or because penises shrink and fall off unless fed a constant diet of bravery?

I was going to say "Bollocks", but instead shall settle for yelling "Ovaries" at you until you give the PC bullshit a rest.

All men know that women are braver then men. If men gave birth there would have been exactly two generations of humans and no more.

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Re: Name clearing

are you suggesting that the things that Assange stand accused of doing in Sweden, only a man should have to accept responsibility for, and a boy should not, as a matter of course?

When you are born, you are not responsible for your own actions. If a baby somehow managed to fire a gun and kill someone, you wouldn't say that baby should be locked up for murder.

As we grow up, we are steadily expected to accept more responsibility for our actions. This is not really a case of age, but of mental capability, understanding, and emotional maturity. It is also why there are different legal procedures for minors compared to adults, and why (AFAIK) it is possible for a minor to be prosecuted as an adult: If it can be shown that the person is capable of understanding what he did at the same level as an adult (in simplistic terms) then he should be treated as an adult.

So, yes, a "boy" who raped someone should not be treated the same as an "adult" who raped someone. They may well be locked up still, but they should be treated differently. Basically, they should be "locked up" to prevent them from being a danger to others, and to allow for rehabilitation. It should not be about punishment. IMHO as soon as they are no longer a danger to society, and it can be shown that they understand that what they did was wrong and will not do it again, they should be released (including if it can be shown that they have already reached this point by the end of the trial).

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Joke

generic comment form

Please mark with an X as applicable.

[ ] He's Innocent!

[ ] He's Guilty!

[ ] Who is he again?

[ ] I liked him in Sherlock

[ ] What sort of fruit is an Assange?

That's enuf...

P.

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Happy

Re: generic comment form

Is there an option for beer and a pork pie? My local pub has started selling enormous (and delicious) pork pies. They've always sold beer. I like beer and pork pies! Where's my option?

They also sell scotch eggs. The perverts!

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Joke

Re: generic comment form

"They also sell scotch eggs. The perverts!"

I used to think they were called 'scotched eggs' until someone pointed out that this would make them flat.

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"Samuelson added "He will be very unhappy if the conclusion is that he is the winning party here, he doesn’t see it like that at all: he wants to clear his name.""

Yeah, I too smell an odour of BS from that statement. You weren't "clearing your name" hiding out in a foreign embassy to duck extradition.

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Mushroom

"wants to clear his name"

Asshole(™) wants to clear his name under his own terms. Great idea, lets just wipe out 1,000 years of proven justice process and skip straight to the point were the defendant runs the trial. What could possibly go wrong.

Want to clear your name? GO TO COURT. Let due process prove you're innocent.

And before someone jumps in "he'll be extradited from Sweden", he stands more chance of being extradited from the UK (when they get hold of him). And he better pray Hillary follows Obama, otherwise Jeb Bush is going to issue an extradition warrant to Ecuador. And then where will he go...

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Anonymous Coward

He wants to attend court with God mode on. Sure, he can be found guilty. Just as long as he doesn't have to deal with the consequences.

"And then where will he go..."

Russia, a la Snowden, I presume

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