back to article Microsoft: This Windows 10 build has 'NO significant known issues'

Microsoft has released its bestest new build of Windows 10 as part of its Windows Insider preview programme, with general manager Gabe Aul boldly stating: “we don’t have any significant known issues for this build.” Since the company has promised to release Windows 10 on July 29, you would expect it to be pretty much sorted at …

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  1. Squander Two

    Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

    Does that mean you can no longer find an app by typing its name?

    1. frymaster

      Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

      This is almost certainly an extra thing for touch users and NOT the removal of search-by-typing

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

        £almost certainly an extra thing for touch users and NOT the removal of search-by-typing£

        You could be right.

        How much £ would you like to bet on it?

      2. Preston Munchensonton
        Coat

        Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

        This is almost certainly an extra thing for touch users and NOT the removal of search-by-typing

        Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves, shall we? MS still has several weeks with which to find and eliminate useful features for desktop users.

    2. Bob Vistakin
      Facepalm

      Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

      Microsoft - your new windows sounds great, and I'd love to help you with this latest beta due July 29th. When it begins, where do I file bug reports?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

        Why would you bother? Report a significant bug and MS will just say it's not a bug at all and is 'working as intended'. They haven't changed their head-in-the-sand tactics you know.

    3. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

      "Microsoft is still tweaking the Start menu and in this build you can tap or click a letter to get an alphabet menu, so you can jump to apps beginning with a specific letter. It does not quite work, though: I tapped P in search of Paint, but it does not come up, since Paint is under Windows Accessories. I should have tapped W."

      Rubbish - on Windows 10 build 10158, tap the Windows key, hit P, Paint is first app listed....Tested OK on 3 different installs of 10158...

      1. joed

        Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

        "Microsoft is still tweaking the Start menu..."

        so when everyone asked to bring it back they are tweaking it. We've heard this before.

        Same ole 8.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

        You need to use an upper-case P. If you don't you'll get this:

        Pictures

        Privacy Settings

        Play key sounds as I type

        Power and Sleep Settings

        Web

        Pirate Bay (Yes it really is at the top of the list! No I have never visited the pirate bay, this is simply the top web search for the letter p)

        pinterest

        paypal

        putlocker

        ....

        Paint is not there at all. Useless.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Facepalm

          Re: Jumping to an app starting with a specific letter.

          Duh!

          That's because the binary is named MSPAINT.EXE, so try looking under 'M'.

  2. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    "For the 1st time this is a build of Windows 10 with which you might be able to get your work done"

    No, it's still uploading your keystrokes.

    1. dogged

      Re: "this is a build of Windows 10 with which you might be able to get your work done"

      you'd still be able to, you just absolutely shouldn't.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

    Oh wait. It is.

    Microsoft, that IS a significant known issue.

    It's 2015 and people can't use your tool to reliably copy their files. FFS.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

      It's 2015 ......

      ....but most of the code was written on tablets of stone in hieroglyphics. You can just imagine some snooty chief code scribe announcing that "256 hieroglyphs should be enough for anyone".

    2. Chas

      Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

      I wouldn't use Microsoft's tool for all the tea in Whitehall, although I have heard that there are certain ladies around Portsmouth Docks who will willingly use your tool for suitable remuneration :D

      =:~)

      1. elDog Silver badge

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        Oh, dear me. I read that as "Microsoft Stool". Maybe acceptable on the docks.

        And please don't forget that you can always fall back to their 8.3 name for your stupidly long filenames. If you have long paths, don't forget SUBST or whatever that POSIX command was.

        I predict that people will stop storing information in those old containers called "files" and just make the full pathname contain everything needed.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

          elDog proposed: "I predict that people will stop storing information in those old containers called 'files' and just make the full pathname contain everything needed."

          Hmmm...

          C:\Passwords\BankAccount\WobblyFrog555\Password\redherring.txt

          Brilliant!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

            C:\Passwords\BankAccount\WobblyFrog555\Password\redherring.txt

            Sadly I've seen exactly that method used in my freelance work...

        2. hplasm Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

          "Microsoft Stool"

          Is that the internal codename for Win 10, like "Longhorn" etc?

          I like it!

      2. MrDamage
        Coat

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        I wouldn't use a microsoft tool either, as I know the ladies prefer a bighard tool.

        *badoomtish*

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

      It's a feature. It was completely rewritten in Vista, 7, 8, and 10 to do that.

    4. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

      The limit is not Explorer's. It is Win32's. It was promised (back in 1991 or thenabouts) that 260 characters would be enough for any file. This was over three lines of typing in a command prompt back then and the designers clearly asked themselves what would be a stupidly long name and then doubled it.

      (There is an API work-around and so Microsoft could have written Explorer to be able to handle longer names. This would let you quietly create files that your other programs couldn't handle properly, perhaps causing a buffer overrun or a truncation-related security flaw, depending on quite how they couldn't handle it properly. Microsoft presumably thought that the ability to dig yourself deeper into trouble wasn't a great feature. I'm inclined to agree.)

      Of course, some people like to put all the meta-data for a file into the parent's (and n-fold grandparent's) directory name. This is typically a crap idea because you lose it the moment you move the file somewhere else, but people do it anyway. Such people can quite easily blow the 260-character limit. The view of an operating system designer is that these people are twats and they can sod off.

      I would note in passing that *any* fixed limit will eventually upset some "test suite" and that having no limit at all will eventually produce an eco-system where twats store file contents in the filename and the files themselves are empty -- just because they can.

      Unix has similar hard limits, but they are generally larger and less documented. The consequences are that (firstly) Windows gets the schtick and (more importantly) the equivalent failure in Unix-land depends on what application you are using. That's not actually better.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        They are documented and there are functions like (f)pathconf which will tell you the current limits.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        PATH_MAX is pretty well documented, and indeed, the length of filenames isn't even limited to this (on a sane OS).

        http://insanecoding.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/pathmax-simply-isnt.html

      3. Preston Munchensonton

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        The limit is not Explorer's. It is Win32's.

        Spot on correct. Note that the underlying filesystems aren't a bottleneck, with file/folder names of 255 characters and complete path names of up to 32760. The culprit is the MAX_PATH define in Win32, stuck forever at 260 characters since nearly forever.

        It's also important to note that programs not dependent on Win32 calls (like Robocopy or FAR Manager) will happily handle the much longer file paths.

      4. Ian 7
        Joke

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        "having no limit at all will eventually produce an eco-system where twats store file contents in the filename and the files themselves are empty"

        Almost the definition of a RESTful request :-)

      5. ProgrammerForHire

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        "The limit is not Explorer's. It is Win32's."

        No it's not . The limit is 32767 characters IF you use the Unicode version of the API and IF you prefix the path with "\\?\" , part of the UNC scheme. Unicode is Microsoft's version of UTF16 and present since Windows 2000 in Win32 . That was 16 years ago.

        The MAX_PATH limit is only for apps stil using ASCII and for Windows Explorer. I guess Microsoft hoped that retards , uhm, programmers , will switch to Unicode in their apps and then the will upgrade Explorer as well, but it still hasn't happened.

        The limit in Explorer is kept for COMPATIBILITY.

        NTFS as a file system doesn't have such a limit. It's also case discriminant if requested.

        Also, anyone programmed on Linux ? Never encountered the PATH_MAX limit ?

        1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

          I suggest you read the documentation. The limit most certainly *is* Win32's and the "\\?\" prefixing is documented as a way to skip Win32's validation and pass the filename blindly to the lower level. It sounds like you've failed to distinguish between the Win32 personality and the NT OS layer. MAX_PATH continues to apply to the Unicode APIs if you don't use the prefix and I don't think I've ever met and end-user who did.

          1. ProgrammerForHire

            Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

            You are somewhat right.. MAX_PATH is enforced by functions but only if you want them to.

            The reason for all this is compatibility with FAT fs I think. Once they give that up it should be easy to just make that the default behaviour

    5. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

      "Microsoft, that IS a significant known issue."

      No, no it isn't. That path length is substantially more than required to give a seperate folder to every atom in the universe...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Elephant in the room...

        "Microsoft, that IS a significant known issue."

        Better this way -

        "Microsoft IS a significant known issue."

      2. keithpeter
        Windows

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        @TheVogon

        Good point, but I think you should pull the figure down by a fairly large factor to reflect the fact that most of us would find a path like

        C:\nvonsoiN/457fkdLvh/NVLSNGHHkbrb/FLLOPba.txt

        a bit hard to recognise. I suspect working out which combinations of 256 characters that are significant to humans might be a hard problem though, and langage dependent.

        1. alexmcm

          Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

          Yeah worked for a company that insisted their code tree had 1 letter names, so when we were trying to find a source file you had to go looking for

          c:\Source\A\F\X\B\Y\H\Z\Q\U\L\O\P\G\R\L\My Code.cpp

          I spent more time looking for the file than working on it.

      3. hplasm Silver badge
        Angel

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        "That path length is substantially more than required to give a seperate folder to every atom in the universe..."

        What!? Just one...? Not very far thinking, that.

        edit:- What!? Just one universe...? Not very far thinking, that either!.

      4. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        "...give a seperate folder to every atom in the universe..."

        By the time one has organized a large organization and structured the projects and structured the folders and subfolders within the project and start pasting in files with real world filenames, BAM! Too long.

        It's annoying.

        One trick is to have short-cuts back-up the tree structure. Deep down in the tips of the branches, a short-cut back up to near the top of the project folder, e.g. ...Project\Shorty\...

        It's a trick that works fairly well.

    6. lansalot

      Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

      Oh we get caught with that all the time.. and it gets better.

      File server - folder shared out half way down the tree, users pour files into it.

      System can't then back the files up, as it's starting at the top. User: "hey, restore my file please!".....

    7. Kobus Botes
      Devil

      Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

      Does Outlook still have the endearing feature that you cannot attach a file to a message if the filename is longer than (ISTR) 110 characters? This was in all versions up to the last one before Office 2003 - I have not had much exposure to Outlook/Exchange since then.

      It took me quite a while to work out why users were unable to attach certain documents. Experimentation and numerous tries eventually revealed the limit (the company I worked at then had a file structure of the order Mapped Drive:\LongClientName\LongEventName\Year\Some\More\Long\Identifiers\LongFileName.xxx, some of which had to be truncated to fit within the 256 character limit.

      My workaround was to ask them to copy the file to their local My Documents folder, attach and send and then to delete the file afterwards (this obviously led to a number of other problems, chief of which was people that moved rather than copied files and then deleting same, or a plethora of other combinations of exciting things that one can do to files (like moving entire directories and dropping it in some unsuspecting directory halfway through the procedure, when they realised that they were doing something wrong and then let go of the left mouse button)).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Unhappy

        Re: Hallelujah - File Explorer's file path limit is not 256 any more !

        God! I've done that, and I'm a techie.

  4. Erik4872

    Still too tablet and phone-centric

    I've been working with Windows 10 since the start of the preview program, and it's come a long way. One thing that really does bother me is the rapid shifts in user interface from one build to the next. Every single build, it seems they try to introduce more and more phone-like qualities. We desktop users really want the ability to control user themes, for example. Phone users are stuck with whatever Android skin their carrier chooses to implement, or iOS, and it's a take it or leave it prospect. Desktop and laptop PC users are a little different -- most still expect some level of control over the UI, and a lot of that was taken away in the later builds of Windows 10.

    The good thing is that the OS under the hood really seems to be shaping up. I just don't understand why Microsoft doesn't seem to want to support themes, especially since they are expecting a bunch of Windows 7 users to come over to Windows 10. Why not make the transition easy? What if someone actually likes the flat Windows 8 UI? Oh yes, I forgot -- marketing and brand identity.

  5. adnim Silver badge

    Cortana popped up a dialogue box...

    explaining that the microphone “was not designed for Cortana”

    Shouldn't Cortana, having come after the invention of the microphone, be designed for microphones?

    1. Ian Emery Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Cortana popped up a dialogue box...

      The microphone has rounded edges, so M$ didnt want to annoy Apple.

      Joke Alert, as some people are very German (also a joke alert!!)

    2. Blane Bramble

      Re: Cortana popped up a dialogue box...

      I think it translates as "your microphone does not have the required NSA invisible intercept facility/hardware lock override".

      1. Preston Munchensonton

        Re: Cortana popped up a dialogue box...

        I think it translates as "your microphone does not have the required NSA invisible intercept facility/hardware lock override".

        While likely true, that doesn't directly answer whether Cortana should be designed for microphones instead of the other way around.

  6. captain veg

    Calc

    Does 10 - 8.1 equal 1 in this version?

    -A.

    1. captain veg

      Re: Calc

      For the benefit of the phantom downvoters, in Windows for Workgroups (before you were born), which had version number 3.11, the Calculator applet insisted that 3.11 minus 3.1 was zero. We thought it was funny at the time.

      -A.

  7. Banksy
    Paris Hilton

    Noob question

    Do you have to have the search function visible on the taskbar all the time or can you remove it, say to the start menu? It looks a bit 'messy' for my OCD tendancies and I like my icons as far left as possible.

    Paris, because she's one of only two icons with a question mark.

    1. nkuk

      Re: Noob question

      Its just the usual case of MS trying to tie all their services together and force them down our throats, but you can get rid of it.

    2. Jordan Davenport

      Re: Noob question

      I worried about that too, but at least with previous builds I've tried, you could disable that and the virtual desktop through the properties or by right-clicking.

  8. Dave Horn

    Search for Paint...

    Press Windows key, type "p", and Paint is the first entry in the list. The way it's been since Windows 7.

    If you've got to go to town on Windows 10 (and I don't blame you), why not mention the half-baked Continuum feature; the fact that nothing actually works quite right; that settings are STILL spread across about six different apps / programs; the lack of Intel display drivers; Cortana being cranky; the half-finished theming etc etc etc.

    1. Test Man

      Re: Search for Paint...

      "Press Windows key, type "p", and Paint is the first entry in the list. The way it's been since Windows 7."

      No, it's been that way since Vista.

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