back to article Queen's Speech: Snoopers' Charter RETURNS amid 'modernisation' push

The first session of the new Parliament was opened by the Queen today and, as expected, a renewed push for a Snoopers' Charter was high on the agenda. Her Majesty said: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion and protect people by tackling extremism. New legislation will modernise the law on …

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Well...

We knew it was coming but it doesn't make it any easier to take. I can only hope that some crazy amount of sanity somehow prevails in parliament when it is voted for and it gets rejected.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well...

The Tories hold a majority. Bend over and open your wallet, peasant. The bankers need more bonuses.

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Re: Well...

They hold a majority of 12, so if the rest of Parliament vote No, it isn't that far out to think 12 Tory MP's with a conscience could vote no as well.

Who am I kidding. It's hard enough to find 1 Tory MP with a conscience, let alone 12.

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Re: Well...

It's only a majority of 15. Easily defeatable. Don't renew your passport just yet.

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Re: Well...

Labour held a far larger majority and they couldn't push this shit through when they tried.

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Unhappy

Re: Well...

Labour held a far larger majority and they couldn't push this shit through when they tried.

*cough* RIPA

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well...

Indeed it's been trying to get through the house since the turn of the millennia.

Was it IMP back then or was that the new new name?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well...

That was in 2000 before 9/11. It's almost like Tony knew what was coming.

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Re: Well...

In this particular respect David Davis is a Tory with some conscience around Civil liberties. There are a few others as well.

Infact there were 10 Tory MP's who voted against the last time, 20 odd labour and the whole of the SNP.

Plus the lords have kicked it into touch on numerous occasions inspite of a large Tory majority.

There's plenty of fight in the dog yet....

We need to write to our MP's saying we will track and remember how they voted on this issue when the next election comes round.

Donate money and time to Liberty, Privacy International, Big Brother Watch and any political party who comes out against it. Then tell your MP about that too.

It can be fought if we are passionate and articulate enough.

As techies we need to educate (but not lecture or hector) the rest of our society on why this is such a bad idea, something we do badly currently - because we know it so instinctively that we dont provide good examples to that the general public care about.

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Re: Well...

"Donate money and time to Liberty, Privacy International, Big Brother Watch and any political party who comes out against it. Then tell your MP about that too."

Quick, before they are labelled as 'extremist philosophies likely to inspire terrorism.'

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Re: Well...

It's also likely to contravene EU legislation (data protection, civil rights, single market, etc.) which may be why there's also going to be a referendum on that. "We're British! We've never had civil rights and don't intend to start having them now!"

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Re: Well...

They hold a majority of 12, so if the rest of Parliament vote No, it isn't that far out to think 12 Tory MP's with a conscience could vote no as well.

That's the government majority but, as the Ulster unionists will generally vote with the government (there will be sweetener of course), and Sinn Fein MPs don't take their seats, the working majority is actually quite a bit more. At least when it comes to regressive measures.

Now, if they were to try and introduce any progressive legislation then that majority will look a lot thinner.

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Re: Well...

It's a manifesto commitment, which means it can be forced through Lords ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Convention )

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Re: Well...

Come on, Labour will only quibble over the fact it doesn't go nearly far enough.

And the Lords will harrumph and then back down because of some piece of nonsense called the Salisbury Convention that they will not block a manifesto commitment no matter how dangerous or insane it is.

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Re: Well...

there are more then 1 Tory MP with a conscience! dont give up! help us fight!

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Re: Well...

a majority of 12 most likely the bill will fail! don't bend over and open your wallet! fight or are you a sheep?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well...

Don't forget the Bankers now pay 70% less tax to UK, than they did in 2012..(big thanks Dave, we are all in it together rolling in cash!!!).

Even though their profit's have recovered to pre-crash levels.

That will really punish them for fucking us all over!!!!!.

mmm, I wonder who is making up that Tax shortfall?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well...

At least we have an ally on the Tory benches in David Davis, hopefully he can get enough opposition together to smack it down.

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Re: Well...

"It's hard enough to find 1 Tory MP with a conscience"

My MP voted against the govt a number of times in the last parliament. And he'll be getting his ear bent about this.

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Re: Well...

As techies we need to educate (but not lecture or hector) the rest of our society on why this is such a bad idea, something we do badly currently - because we know it so instinctively that we dont provide good examples to that the general public care about.

Oh, you'd like to think that wouldn't you? However, I had an interesting conversation just after the start of the Snowden revelations with a Gen Y who shall remain nameless. They were and are your stereotypical Facebook centric Twitterati. When I tried to explain just how much data is being captured and stored forever and the level of invasiveness involved their answer was, and remained, that they didn't have anything to hide (a bold statement indeed) and didn't care. Unfortunately there is that level of stupidity indoctrination present in the masses that I can honestly believe the "think of the children" approach coupled with a laissez faire attitude would get a majority public support. There are those that are fully ignorant of entities like the Stazi, have no concept of the Orwellian nightmare we approach, or simply couldn't give less of a shit provided everyone gets their selfie at bar X update.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well...

'Hard enough to find 1 Tory MP with a concience'

To be fair David Davis has been pretty good, i think. At least with the privacy stuff.

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Facepalm

@Mark 65 -- Re: Well...

However, I had an interesting conversation just after the start of the Snowden revelations with a Gen Y who shall remain nameless. They were and are your stereotypical Facebook centric Twitterati.

Hell, Mark...name him or her (or them). IMHO, public ridicule on their oh-so-precious "social meeja" is quite likely the only lever that will get them off of top dead center and activate what passes for synapses in these people.

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Anonymous Coward

Time to leave

Enacting Big Brother, supporting tax evasion, killing the NHS, privatising vital governmental services (no conflicts of interest, honest), trying to exit the EU (for all its ills, the EU is about the only thing keeping the Labtory duopoly in check)....certainly looking like time to leave the UK and move to an actual democracy.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Time to leave

Go on then. I'm fed up of all these "I'm off" whingers, but yet they're still here. If it's that bad, go.

I'll be writing to my MP, who I've met when he was going door-to-door prior to elections, and does seem to have a conscience. Doubt it'll do any good, but at least it's doing something positive.

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Re: Time to leave

...an actual democracy.

Sounds good. Where is it?

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Re: Time to leave

Serious question! Is there anyone keeping a list of awesome places to live? Like ones where the government isn't on a brisk dive towards Orwellian disaster?

I have vague hopes that if they manage to drag us out of Europe the EU might offer some kind of asylum scheme to those of us who find more value in belonging to the EU than in belonging to England...

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TRT
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Re: Time to leave

Coming soon to a street near you... a demo.

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Re: Time to leave

Iceland. New Zealand. Canada.

All seem like reasonable candidates.

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Re: Time to leave

Iceland sure, Two of the 'Five Eyes'? No thanks.

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Re: Time to leave

Will you Labour supporters stop claiming the Tories are trying to kill the NHS?

They've been in power for about 40 years since the NHS was founded. If they intend to kill the NHS, they're taking their time about it.

The only health minister to ever privatise an NHS hospital was Andy Burnham ( Labour ). Well done that man, except when he started lying about it.

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Re: Time to leave

The Pirate Party is the most popular group of politicians in Iceland right now.

The beer is ruinously expensive though.

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Re: Time to leave

Stephen Harper in Canada is a bit Bliar/Camoron. good country though.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Time to leave

Doubt it'll do any good, but at least it's doing something positive.

And while you're at it, the garden path could do with sweeping.

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Re: Time to leave

dont leave! fight for your freedoms! also there are no actual democracys left in this world!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Time to leave

"Will you Labour supporters stop claiming the Tories are trying to kill the NHS?"

I am not a Labour supporter. Labour will also murder the the NHS because they are in the thrall of the same paymasters. Labour and Tory are the same. Hence "Labtory".

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Re: Time to leave

Canada would spy on you - but the government doesn't have any computers so they can't

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Re: Time to leave

...an actual democracy.

Sounds good. Where is it?

Well... it's not in States. That's for damn sure... I was hoping you guys were hiding it.

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Re: Time to leave

No Bernard, Canada is not a suitable candidate for you to escape a tyrannical gov of your own.

We are in bed with the US and our liberties are being taken away at a faster rate then ever before.

We pretty much live in a conservative, police state where the gov pushes anti terror bills like the US Patriot act, police officers are allowed to shoot people in the streets with no consequences, etc, etc, etc.

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Facepalm

Re: Time to leave

> Enacting Big Brother, supporting tax evasion,

Yah no, your worldview is at loggerheads with itself.

UNLEFTIFY YOURSELF!!

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Re: Time to leave

If they intend to kill the NHS, they're taking their time about it.

They were taking their time, all pretence has long since passed. Not for nothing but every time they've been in government previously they've all but completely choked off enough funding so it can't run effectively - ostensibly so people would demand some "new" (see: old/bad) system to replace it and they can sell the bits off it to their mates at massive discounts on the true value. Not that I'd ever suggest the Tories are corrupt like they work for FIFA or something but they have a pretty substantial track record of doing this with taxpayer owned assets.

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Re: Time to leave

*crosses off Canada and New Zealand*

*studies list*

*Googles winter clothing....*

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Re: Time to leave

I hear Venezuela is a socialist paradise.

They may have ran out of toilet roll a couple of years ago because of their price controls, but hey! It's socialism.

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Re: Time to leave

Really?

About anything interesting?

The turkeys just voted for Christmas, and you think they care enough to demonstrate?

The Conservatives have total control [almost] of the press via their owners (TRTGAS) (Too Rich To Give A Shit), control of the few who insist on contrary points of view will come via "extremist views".

The labour party is about to be de-funded, opposing views from charitable and social organisations has been neutered by the "gagging" law...union strikes are about to be ended by insisting on an over-40% vote (although we have a gov elected by either 24% or 34%, deciding on your viewpoint)

An interesting 5 years is coming....although whether we have any future elections is another debating point!

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Re: Time to leave

If you think New Zealand is clean, you haven't been following things much.

The NHS stuff that Cameron's trying to bang through here was tried under the tory-equivalent National party in the 1990s. When public hopsitals end up siccing debt collectors on people because of mandatory charges when they're ill, your public health system is in a bad state.

Apart from that, look at http://www.laudafinem.com/ and http://e2nz.org/ - kiwiland has more problems than the UK does and a wilfully clueless population who prefer to believe "none of that stuff can happen here"

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@AC -- Re: Time to leave

[...] certainly looking like time to leave the UK and move to an actual democracy.

Please share with the class the name of such a place when (if) you find it....

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sigh

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, and eternal surveillance and control is the price of ... err, hold on, freedom? They keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

But it's only for terrorists and paedophiles, so good, honest, upstanding folks like us have nothing to worry about. I'm actually surprised they haven't arrested them all already, given that they obviously know who they are, i.e. not us. Obviously.

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Stop

Re: sigh

When they say "freedom", they mean their freedom of action.

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Big Brother

that's a nice hat

She got to keep her hat and head since Brits can't be arsed to overthrow the monarchy.

Now your beloved ruler gets made to regurgitate phrases such as "social cohesion" and "tackling extremism" as David "I'm a real human" Cameron fondles your collective privates.

Feels bad Clegg :/

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Re: that's a nice hat

You don't get the blame the Queen for the nightmare we keep electing (the colour of tie changes but that's about all).

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