back to article New Windows 10 will STAGGER to its feet, says Microsoft OS veep

At the Build shindig in San Francisco this week, Joe Belfiore – Microsoft's corporate veep for operating systems – talked The Register through the release of Windows 10: when it will arrive, how it will arrive, and why you should use it. Belfiore was keen to squash dates leaked by hardware manufacturers – AMD's chief suggested …

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  1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Telling words

    We need them to think that we’re trying to build a product that is for them

    Do they think we were born yesterday?

    They know full well what W7 users want. Thousands of forum posts since W8 was released has told them loud and clear.

    Will they listen? That is the question.

    The releases so far have (IMHO) been very mixed. More of a case of 'now you see it, now you don't'

  2. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

    “We’re going to take that thing that you like, we’re going to give you something that’s familiar, but just works better. It’s going to boot faster, it’s going to have better performance, you’re going to have a personal digital assistant there to answer any question for you at any time, you’re not going to have to relearn anything, and all of your apps are still going to run,” he says.

    Why indeed?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      For me the key words are we’re going to give you something that’s familiar, but just works better

      If that is the measure of when Windows 10 will be good enough to seriously tempt Windows 7 users to upgrade then, by the progress they've made so far, I believe it will be 6 months at least before it is ready.

      That means that it will likely be a Christmas push based on new machines, followed maybe by an upgrade push a few months later when the new OS has wowed the public.

      1. Kev99 Bronze badge

        Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

        Don't forget, you'll probably also need to double or triple your RAM and HD capacity just to load the bugger. Each version of Windows is always fatter than the previous.

        1. Siv

          Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

          Actually ever since Vista the horsepower required to run each successive Windows version has gone down! Mainly because they were moving from PC to Tablet as the device it would be running on so it had to be much lighter.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

            Actually ever since Vista the horsepower required to run each successive Windows version has gone down!

            I doubt I will be able to dust down an ancient XP box (circa 2001) and install Win 10 on it and expect any meaningful performance (by today's standards)...

            1. Bluto Nash

              Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

              Erm, I've got it running on an Atom based netbook, and except for the absolutely atrocious disk I/O (controller only handles 1.5Gb/s SATA) it's at least as "snappy" as the XP Home it originally came with. It's given the 'book a new lease on life and made it usable again.

          2. Charles Manning

            horsepower required to run each successive Windows version has gone down...

            ... mainly because nobody bothers to run it.

            1. h4rm0ny

              You can't turn Cortana off?

              Surely this must be possible. It would be insane not to be able to. I'll be back on Gentoo if that's the case. But I can't believe they would do something this stupid.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: You can't turn Cortana off?

                "I can't believe they would do something this stupid."

                have you looked at Microsoft's Track record recently.

                WIndows 8 = stupidity score 100% they are just trying for a higher percentage......!

                will have to get a copy of windows 10 from a country where Cortana is not available as i believe they are free of this rubbish and then change the language files or at least hope someone else does it ......

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @JustaKOS - Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

        IF the new OS has wowed the public...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @JustaKOS - Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

          Ah yes, IF would have been a better choice.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      HUUUUUMMMMMMM.

      No mention of more secure than Windows 7. which apart from not being windows 8 is what we really want.

      I PRAY that we can turn (Cortana) the "personal digital assistant there to answer any question for you at any time" OFF or remove it altogether. Dont want it Dont need it. If i need a question answering there is wikipedia or Google both will be far superior to the search done by the personal digital assistant using Bing.

    3. x 7 Silver badge

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      "and all of your apps are still going to run "

      I don't have "apps". I have programs........Are they going to run?

      1. Mikel

        Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

        If your favorite program is Microsoft Media Center then no, it is not going to run. They've killed it.

    4. Wade Burchette

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      From my testing, Windows 7 is miles ahead of Windows 10 still. Windows 7 respects my privacy; Win10 does not. This reason alone makes Windows 7 better. What I really really hate is how the search bar in the start menu searches Bing first and then your programs and files second. It should never ever search the web, ever. If I want to search the web I will use a web browser. I view this as a way to track you. And Cortana may be nice, but she won't work unless you surrender your privacy. I realize I cannot escape all this tracking but it doesn't mean I should give up. But there are more reasons why W7 is better.

      W7 has the option of full Aero; Win10 currently does not and it is beginning to look less hopeful that it will. W7 has a customizable start menu; Win10 has the Win10 way or the highway. W7 has an easy to find system restore. W7 has a full backup program; Win10 does not. W7 has a working F8 at boot. This is the second reason why W7 is miles superior to Win10. Whoever thought disabling the feature used to fix machines was a good idea needs to be smacked in the head every day.

      1. bean520

        Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

        "Windows 7 respects my privacy; Win10 does not."

        Put this into perspective, mate, you are running a developer preview with an EULA saying you basically MUST provide that data. Windows 7 is a finished product that doesn't need that kind of testing therefore gives you the option of turning feedback off.

    5. Trigonoceps occipitalis

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      "Bill, are you listening to me?"

      Of course "Bill" is the twee name I've given my computer, definitely not an MS server farm in Wisconsin (as if).

    6. Andy Livingstone

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      That verbiage is so similar to the drivel of politicians in the forthcoming election.

  3. frank ly Silver badge

    I'm too old for this

    I've been away from Windows for two years having moved from Windows 7 to Linux Mint. I tried the Windows 10 Technical Preview and it was like an alien world. I tried to mount/map my network storage devices and it saw them but I couldn't access them. I never had any problem like that with Win XP or Win 7 or with Linux. I managed to install Firefox and I tried to make a 'shortcut' but it asked me if I was sure I wanted to run it every time I clicked the shortcut icon. I gave up at that point.

    1. returnmyjedi

      Re: I'm too old for this

      Unfinished software in not-fully-functioning shocker. Film at eleven.

    2. BobChip
      Linux

      Re: I'm (NOT) too old for this

      No you're not - age gives you experience, perspective and judgement. Which is why you you followed the path you did.

      I abandoned MS when Vista came along. Ubuntu (V 8, maybe?) was better, but only just, and was quite hard work. Now, Mint 17 LTS is a joy to live with, and I shudder whenever I am asked to fix a windows machine - knowing that I have hours of slow pain ahead of me. I cannot conceive of ever going back to MS for an operating system.

      P.S. I am "retired", sort of, and 71

    3. BobChip
      Linux

      Re: I'm too old for this

      Interesting. I switched to Linux some six(?) years ago - pushed by Vista - and have stayed there. While Win 7 is frankly pretty good, a hard look at Win 8 and a brief glance at 10 have convinced me that I really am better off staying with Linux. For the rare occasion when I need to use old Win software, VirtualBox and an old copy of XP or 7 (internet access and updates turned OFF) do the job perfectly well. Mint 17 LTS wins hands down, and once you have experienced the incredibly slick Linux update procedure, compared to the grinding pain of Win updates with nags and reboots etc, well.....

  4. quarky

    Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

    "We are concerned with both, but the higher volume of people are the Windows 7 people, and the Windows 8 people are more likely to be tech enthusiasts and more adaptable."

    It is pretty sad that so many IT people don't seem to be tech enthusiasts these days. That isn't a dig that those who dislike Windows 8, or those on El Reg, but a reflection of the sad state of many IT people these days.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

      I can't speak for everyone, but I know I tried both the Win8 and Win10 betas and just decided it's not for me. The backend improvements are just too minor compared to the disappointment I feel about the new UI and apps.

      I still want a categorized start menu (even if I have to do it myself) and less useless chrome on the windows (translucency makes the problem much less noticeable, apps that waste space make it more so.) And their choice of UI colors make my eyes bleed. I assume MS will address some of the problems with slow and crashing apps though.

      1. Cliff

        Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

        I think my IT heritage is pretty strong, I could programming in assembler for the 6502 and x86 processors, borrowed a ZX80 before buying a ZX81, so I will put up with a lot of shit from my technology. I dislike Windows 8, or rather some of its more idiotic features.

        My current laptop has a nice i5 abacus that can do (thanks to a windowing environment) many things at the same time, but by default, some things launch in a Metro/Modern full screen modal popup, as if it was a dumb small screen device. I don't even take that from my phone any more, Samsung cured that with the Note series. Simple idea, I wanted to look at an email and spreadsheet whilst running a voice call on skype - not a controversial workflow - and the full screen app skype thing (full screen, 1000+ line 17" monitor, with maybe a handful of functionality and an acre of whitespace) means by default I have to rely on a second monitor. Ridiculous.

        I cannot wait for Win 10 hoping it cuts this misery of guessing which buttons you need for which programmes because the others make it look backwards. Ballmer had to go after that abomination.

        1. xenny

          Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

          I have a horrid feeling you'll never read this, but you can drag Metro apps down to take up say 1/3 of the screen, leaving the classic windows desktop taking up the other 2/3. No need for a second monitor at all

          1. Mephistro Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT. (@ xenny)

            "...you can drag Metro apps down to take up say 1/3 of the screen..."

            If it wants a third of my screen, TIFKAM will have to take it from my cold, dead hands. ;-)

            And I think the concept you are trying to express here is not 'tech enthusiasts' but 'tech hipsters'.

          2. jonathanb Silver badge

            Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

            Windows 2 introduced this amazing thing called overlapping windows where you could make the windows any size you want and put them anywhere on the screen. Do we really want to go back to the days of the original 1.0 release of Windows?

            1. Mikel

              Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

              Windows 1.0 was text based. And it, too had overlapping windows.

              1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

                > Windows 1.0 was text based. And it, too had overlapping windows.

                Wrong on both counts. Windows 1.0 was graphical. Though there was more text than graphics the text was not in the 80x25 grid of the text interfaces.

                """Windows 1.0 does not allow overlapping windows. Instead all windows are tiled. Only dialog boxes can appear over other windows."""

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0

              2. x 7 Silver badge

                Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

                DOS was text based

                Windows 1 was .......err.........Windows! (though very simplistic)

              3. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

                >Windows 1.0 was text based

                I think that is what would be called functional minimalism today... It would probably present a challenge to those who've grown up on 'txtspeak' and icon driven UI's...

            2. TCook1943

              Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

              Lets keep our fingers crossed that it does not turn out to be a repeat of Windows 1 where NOTHING worked.

              Given MS form since though we might as well whistle in the wind.

          3. td97402

            Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

            WHy does a calculator app have to take up 1/3 of the screen again? Microsoft really wanted us to buy into the Metro app thing with their half-baked release of Windows 8. Perhaps the Metro apps are great on a phone or small tablet but you missed the point of the original post. Many of us have reasonable complex workflows and the Metro environment just was not suited. Windows isn't Windows without Windows!

            Before you point out the Windows 10 allows Metro apps to run in Windows I must warn you I've got the preview running right here. Metro apps are overly large on screen because all the UI elements are double spaced for thumb friendliness (touch) even when I am not in tablet mode. The damn calculator app insists on taking up twice the space of the now MIA calculator program of Windows 7 and that is just one example.

            I would have been OK with a Metro emulator to allow me to run Metro apps on my desktop PC. I resent the complete makeover of the full Windows UI to cater to the tablet monkeys.

        2. Thomas Letherby

          Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

          You could always use Skype for desktop, if you want it on your desktop, instead of Skype for TIFKAM, which is for when you don't...

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

      The funny thing is you're forced to be a tech enthusiast if you want to do anything with Windows 8 like get a usable start menu. Woe betide you if you're not and you just want a computer that works the way they've worked since the early 80s (before if you include Xerox Parc). Do MS really know their customers?

      And upgrading from Windows 7 to some moving target work-in-progress sounds like more of the same. This sounds like it's just not ready and when it finally is it could look like anything. If anyone's got any sense they'll wait 11 months before considering upgrading, tech enthusiast or otherwise.

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

        If then, it will be never for me.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

      I found the original words "...the Windows 8 people are more likely to be tech enthusiasts and more adaptable" puzzling because my interpretation of the phrase is people who delight in the advance of technology.

      Windows 8 was certainly different, but an advance? Clearly not for most enthusiasts who gave it a go and panned it heavily.

      Your comment clarified it for me, I think. If you mean a "Tech Enthusiast" is someone who uncritically accepts the latest shiny stuff to come out, then yes - there's not many of them about here.

    4. Charles Manning

      Why I don't want to be their kind of "tech enthusiast"

      I am not a luddite. I have been developing software and embedded systems for over 30 years.

      I **like** software. I **like** new software when it enables new things to be accomplished.

      However sw is a TOOL. It must be useful. Just changing sw for the sake of change and for no good use is not exciting.

      Their type of "tech enthusiast" is the sort of person that gets a stiffy from knowing that ALT-CTRL-X does something on Win8.x that. They're the sort of people who do case mods and their script kiddy mates think they are technically awsome.

      For 90+% of people, PC software is a TOOL. It must function and must do it's job well.

      You can take away my hand screwdriver if you give me something that is functionally better and easy to learn (eg. a battery screwdriver). What MS have done is take away my screwdriver and replace it with hammer and told me to stop using screws and I must now nail everything together.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Arse'oles

    Just installed 10074 yesterday. Now with so much Control Panel gone (what a palaver trying to get the icons back on the desktop!) it reminded me more than anything else of the Motorola Phone app I used to occasionally use on the PC. Each build is steadily more like a great big phone interface. This has quite obviously been their strategy; the point of this extended Tech/Insider Preview - to gradually migrate we who resist it to this tablet/phone interface. They figured they could win this battle they began, by conditioning. That's what the Windows 10 Tech Preview has been: an attempt to recoup their losses using conditioning.

    And to the downvoters: I don't care any more what you think than Microsoft cares what I think.

    1. king of foo

      Re: Arse'oles

      I just want it to be fast.

      And small.

      And stable.

      And to run well on a wide range of hardware, from ancient to cutting edge.

      As an "enthusiast" that tries lots of different things I can recall using an operating system like that. It was called "puppy".

      I wonder - could El reg do a "special" on lightweight operating systems? Comparing them to the mainstream? Some people might get a shock.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Arse'oles

      "Just installed 10074 yesterday."

      Likewise. Part of the objective was to test installing FreeBSD as a double boot with a windows partition (that works). I also wanted to see if it would run the one Windows program I occasionally use that I can't run under Wine. The installer is sitting on a file server at 192.168.0.3. There's also a printer at 192.168.0.4. The Win10 box is at 192.168.1.64 with a netmask of 255.255.0.0 and it can't see anything on 192.168.0.x. And forget the incomplete software guff: if it's being released as a preview it should do better than that.

      And the interface? Rubbish! Everything is borderless which is fine if everything is full screen, less fine if you have overlapping windows. Scroll bars are very dark grey on black. Windows for Teletubbies was ugly enough, this is much worse. The overall impression is of viewing an unfurnished house. Downloading LibreOffice & Seamonkey started to give it a more lived in appearance but I doubt I'd be persuaded to move in there permanently..

    3. Steve 114

      Re: Arse'oles

      Likewise: then about 20 tweaks (only one in the registry) made it look comfortably like 7, with a less handy listing of installed programs. Works quite well on an old laptop with only 2Gb of memory. But even after the three 'Do not search...' enables, any local wording in the searchbar still gets web suggestions from dreaded Bing. Anyone know how to disable Bing access absolutely?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

    Even if it is free. Will stick on windows 7, pre metro. Really not sure why Microsoft are still even bothering with Xbox one and windows phone, they are total failures.

    1. Radelix

      Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

      Might as well dust off your XP box as well then, you know since it turns on and doesn't do that transparency magic in the UI.

      1. Planty Bronze badge

        Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

        Windows 10 loses aero too.. So its more like XP, just with loads of ways to sell you things baked in.

        How do you think Microsoft are going to "give" you a "free" upgrade... Expect it to be like Ubuntu horrible amazon search integration, but impossible to turn off...

        Also expect Microsoft to count installs but not subsequent uninstalls.

    2. td97402

      Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

      To be fair, XBone is doing OK. Now Windows Phone seems done.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

        Didn't you notice the absence of any Xbox one sales figures in Microsofts end of year earnings report. Much vagueness.... Sony on the other hand have SOLD 22.5m ps4s to consumers.

        I know one solitary Xbox one owner and he is looking to jump ship, as all his Xbox 360 mates jumped to ps4 this gen.

        Microsoft are in a really bad place, making really desperate decisions.

      2. Daniel B.

        Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

        The XBox One had a small surge during holiday season 2014 because MS made a steep discount around those dates. I think it has reverted to its regular price, so there's a good chance the surge is gone as well. But it's probably too little, too late: PS4 is way too ahead. The XBO isn't quite a failure, but it seems to have definitely lost this generation's console war. Honestly, MS should just close up that shop and let a more consumer and gamer-friendly console maker enter the market.

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