back to article Anti-gay Indiana starts backtracking on hated law after tech pressure

The governor of Indiana is quietly backtracking on a law that threatens to legalize discrimination against gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people – after growing pressure from tech companies. Business portal Angie's List, which is based in the state, has halted its expansion after the law was passed last week. Its CEO …

Politics. politics....and duplicity

The cast of characters criticizing this is interesting. If these companies really wish to boycott Indiana they would route their freight around Indiana and pay the extra cost. Many of them got tax breaks which in many cases they will incur liability if they leave. Angies list is currently asking for an $18,000,000.00 grant that will be made up by straights and gays. NCAA really hammered Penn State over the Sanduskey affair. In all the gay lawsuits against businesses, it appears only those of the Christian faith have been sued. Wonder how Moslem caterers would deal with finger food with pork or baked goods with lard? But, Christians have survived lions and Roman centurions and they will survive this. This couldn't possibly connected to Pence's interest in a Presidential bid and the need for a special law for him to run for both offices in 2016.

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

Don't you know: there are no Muslimn gay, nor Japanese gays, nor Chinese gays. I know this because my Muslim, JP, CN friends assure me it is the case.

There are gays in Africa but in most African countries they are targets for state sponsored murder, kinda like pogroms against the Jews in eastern Europe in the past.

The "West" has faced the fact of homosexuality and the rights of homosexuals. We've mostly changed our laws and attitudes to respect homosexuality. We still have some troglodytes, sadly.

I suggest we kill the troglodytes.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

"We've mostly changed our laws and attitudes to respect homosexuality"

The laws may have changed but this article is proof that attitude has not changed. You cannot change attitude quite so easilly with a pen.

"We still have some troglodytes, sadly."

So if I understand your logic the Muslims, Japanese and Chinese are all troglodytes and that they should all be killed ?

I don't think that most your so called Troglodytes actually want to kill homosexuals but it appears as though you want to kill the troglodytes. Now, where does that put you on the pyramid of evolution, understanding and acceptance. ?

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Boffin

Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

If we accept that there is a genetic basis for homosexuality, then homophobic religeous groups should actually welcome gay marriage because it must inevitably lead to a reduced occurrence of the genes responsible for homosexuality, since gay couples tend not to produce offspring, whereas gay individuals, forced by conventions of society into different-sex marriage, may nevertheless produce offspring.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: normal people that don't want to tolerate others sexual perversions

1) in what way do you have to "tolerate" what other people get up to in their own beds?

2) I hope you've only ever had sex in an attempt to create children. You do it for pleasure? Pervert.

3) Normal? Where I come from it's normal to respect other people, whatever their sexual orientation.

4) "At least "Troglodytes" can breed." Unfortunately they tend to breed more troglodytes. Evolution anyone?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: normal people that don't want to tolerate others sexual perversions

Dilemma : What should be done about the homosexual troglodytes ?

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

"Don't you know: there are no Muslim gay, nor Japanese gays, nor Chinese gays. I know this because my Muslim, JP, CN friends assure me it is the case."

May I suggest you widen your circle of friends or read something like 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes' by Mohammed Hanif. Wonderfully subversive story of homosexuality and much else in Pakistan.

Yes, the west (well east of Indiana) are ahead but not that far ahead. The Thatcher Government's Section 28 was only repealed in 2003. Many of its strong supporters are still very active in the current (well until May 7) government.

Anybody my age should understand the cultural issues on LGBT in those societies. But have hope that the rapid transformation we have seen in the last half century can be repeated elsewhere, And not be too superior about it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

Yep nobody is persecuted in the US like white Christian males huh? Tebow proved that eh?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

"If we accept that there is a genetic basis for homosexuality..."

So we should nominate all poofs for the Darwin Awards you mean?

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Facepalm

Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

"I suggest we kill the troglodytes."

Do me a favour, don't be on my side. Ever.

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

Well said. It's depressing to see El Reg stirring up hate and bigotry. All the law does is to stop gay activists using the courts to torment ordinary people going about their daily lives. The lying claims of "hate" and "bigotry" from those visibly salivating at the thought of blood make sickening reading. Shame on you all.

Still ... once you've established all the legal precedents, a future right wing government will use them all gratefully against you. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

Live and let live.

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Thumb Down

Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

That article is too weak to mean anything.

Consenting adults is just that, consenting.

P.

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Devil

Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

I suggest we kill the troglodytes. . . .

Well, since it is illegal to kill (people) I suggest that we start using the laws and power of the state to force these troglodytes to become like the rest of us. One way that can be accomplished is to use the laws to force people respect the rights of the LGBT and not be able to discriminate against them even if ones religious belief say it is wrong. Religious right are find as long as they don't interfere with modern lifestyles.

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

Hi Stuart 22, I was wondering what to read next. Sounds interesting, thank you

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

E 2: Have an up vote. People seem to have missed your sarcasm, despite it being massively obvious.

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Happy

@Roger Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

Roger,

El Reg 'stirring up hatred and bigotry', I seem to have missed that bit of the article.

Feel free to clarify my omission (and I am not being sarcastic).

Regards,

J

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

Homosexuality has been on Earth since mankind began. Leviticus ch.18, vs. 22-30 deals specifically with the practice. The whole chapter is about sexual practices. According to Biblical accounts, the promise God made in Leviticus about engaging in those practices were fulfilled in Sodom and Gomorrah. However, due to pressure from the gay lobby, preaching against homosexuality is seldom practiced and indeed many churches are allowing gay ministers. According to the Freudian psychology and the later Kinsey report I studied, homosexuals are anything but gay. They are usually miserable. They have went from the closet to openly gay to forced acceptance and are on the verge of forced participation. The executives of these companies demonstrate this by using their economic power. The business definition was to prevent an attorney from saying the law only applied to a person. It is now illegal to teach gay conversion therapy. My old abnormal psychology books are now illegal because they called homosexuality a mental disease. Ironically, under Indiana law a person with mental deficiencies is a protected class. Earlier, Indiana had enacted a law against same sex marriages. It was struck down by the federal courts. RFRA only protects against government action. Due to other states experiences with gay marriages, Indiana enacted a law to protect business owners in a lawsuit and give courts guidance. If a business refuses services, they can still be sued under the law and must demonstrate proof the request for services was injurious to their religious beliefs. Gov. Pence signed the law in private with three anti-gay activists. There is an HIV outbreak in Southern counties of Indiana. It is being blamed on drug users. Gov. Pence declared a medical emergency in that area. That means causes must be defined. HIV studies makes the gay community nervous. There is an acknowledgement of a gay agenda and growing resentment as basic institutions are attacked. Churches are the most basic moral institutions and therefore the most subject to attack. Those that serve God will survive and prosper. Those that serve mammon will fail as they should. Corporations should think twice before making economic threats about who could be the larger offended population. God might provide superior technical knowledge in computing and health fields that would make the knowledge and products of the companies protesting the law obsolete. By law those benefits would have to be made available to the whole population. The gays would probably abandon their current defenders in droves. The Indiana law protest is just another ratcheting up process. Many of those same companies are supporting a bill to reduce wages on government projects. Their protests are more about corporate greed than lifestyles.

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

Observe the paragraph structure: troglodytes refers to the "West".

Oh, I get it, you're twisting my words.

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

Thanks for seeing the sarcasm.

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

And the Presbyterian Church just made a point of doing exactly that, proving that not all religions are "homophobic". By the way, for the uneducated folks out there, the Presbyterian Church is considered Christian.

Even that word homophobic is baloney because other Christians don't "fear" homos, they just don't like being told what they can do much. It's more like the LGBT people are all theophobics. By the way, they have plenty of derogatory words that describe us "breeders".

However, as much as there may be mutual dislike, there are many individual churches (even Catholic) that have welcomed gays for years. But you'll NEVER read about that here because it does not result in thousands of clicks when you report the real story.

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Re: Politics. politics....and duplicity

There are gay people in Japan, and the gay rights movement is beginning to get some traction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-32130599

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Boffin

So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/03/27/19-states-that-have-religious-freedom-laws-like-indianas-that-no-one-is-boycotting/

So why the hoopla now? In 1993 Bill Clinton signed the Federal Law that the State laws are based on.

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

Maybe the others have "religious freedom laws" that serve to guarantee religious freedom, and not "religious freedom laws" that serve to discriminate against minorities and using religion as an excuse.

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Holmes

Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

Religious freedom != religious beliefs

Conflating the two is duplicitous. (Ahem to that!)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

Not true, Dunlapse.

Did Barack Obama vote for Religious Freedom Restoration Act with 'very same' wording as Indiana's?

The Big Lie The Media Tells About Indiana’s New ‘Religious Freedom’ Law

The Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act – An Analysis of Its Controversy

Anyway, if Native Americans get to use peyote, everybody should be able to use marijuana, LSD, mushrooms, cocaine, heroin, etc. Until I can ingest the drugs I want when I want, fuck the petty religious discrimination bills.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

I need "substances" to offer to Based Snoop Godd and Willie H. Nelson. Indiana has completely prohibited such "substances". Only the "gay rape" can "save" the "souls" of our state's "Christian" shop managers. Therefore the Anti-Tim Cook Act of Indiana is a travesty that must be "eliminated".

You feel me?

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

@gnasher it turns out they all offer the same protections. The controversy is not what they want you to think it is.

"four federal courts of appeals and the Obama Justice Department have all taken the position that RFRA can be used as a defense in private suits involving the enforcement of laws that substantially burden free exercise of religion"

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/416160/indiana-protecting-discrimination-josh-blackman

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Boffin

Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government@the coward

First off Native Americans have a very special legal status based on over two hundred years of various treaties. The fact that you don't know that means you have a very limited knowledge of American History.

Secondly the article clearly states the law is based on the one that Bill Clinton signed in 1993, not an exact copy. Different authors are going to use different language based on their backgrounds or perhaps court rulings in their state. Since the Federal law was passed in 1993 I am sure there are a lot of court cases to look at.

As far as your comment "Dunlapse". Really? I haven't heard that one since fourth grade.

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

Clinton also signed the odious DoMA into law - which was gutted by the Supreme Court on its first visit, as the Indiana law will be.

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

So I tried to answer that exact question in the story: why now and what is the big difference?

The difference is three things:

1. Changes made to the federal law that increase the chance of discrimination (gone into in some depth in the article)

2. The Supreme Court decisions on same-sex marriage that have been the spark to much of this legislation

3. The things said and the arguments put forward during the passage of this law - which, admittedly very little of which have been included (although some were in the last story). These arguments point to the fact that despite the wording of the law not looking that bad, the clear intent has been to give legal defense to people who wish to discriminate against others (in this case, gay people). While this is not as tangible as words passed as law, it is the reality and people are reacting very strongly to it.

On some levels this saga is the epitome of the human experience and here-and-now. People know what it is and what it means. And so it can only be captured by capturing people's feelings and reactions. If you look purely in terms of the content of laws passed, then it looks like nothing very much.

But then the same could be said for just about every major political event in history - at least those that haven't involved violence.

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government@the coward

That is the least USA can do for the Native americans .. the word "NATIVE" says it all.. it was their land that was taken forcibly from them by the eurpean sea farers.. HUGE land with HUGE riches and now they are given a insignificant part of it as their "reservation'..(btw reservation is a term used for wild animal/endangered species conservation). Well the argument that "was it correct" is not important here. Just a point to keep in mind. Stop bringing them in the equation. They are not bothering anyone and are still busy licking their woulds centuries later.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

> Religious freedom != religious beliefs

Worse - the article implies that this law says a business can have religious beliefs, which, if that is the case, conflates corporates as human constructs with the humanity that devised it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

Clinton signed DOMA also. What's funny is many in the US actually think Bill NAFTA Clinton governed as a progressive liberal. Whats different as far as the politicians are concerned is %60 of America now support gay marriage.

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

The Supreme Court just did something similar with Hobby Lobby.

Hobby Lobby is an organisation which can with-hold contraception on medical insurance from its employees, due to its religious beliefs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/22/the-ongoing-hobby-lobby-battle-who-else-can-get-an-exemption/

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

Thank you for pointing out the elephant in the room (the elephant is the symbol of the Republican party, not known in the last forty years for being on the side of "truth, justice, and the American Way" to quote the Superman legend). Republicans have been eroding the rights and privileges of our country by terrifying low-information voters, granting corporations rights that supersede those of the citizenry, and giving credence to the Golden Rule - that is, those with the most gold make the rules.

I'll believe that a corporation is a person when it can be drafted or imprisoned. I have never seen a corporation praying in a church, synagogue or a mosque, or being baptized, circumcised. They do not get to have religions.

The Republicans are twisting the religious freedom part of our Constitution to mean everyone must be compelled to respect fundamentalist Christianity by law, but no other religions or beliefs are valid enough to be respected.

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

> I'll believe that a corporation is a person when it can be drafted or imprisoned. I have never seen a corporation praying in a church, synagogue or a mosque, or being baptized, circumcised. They do not get to have religions.

Well said.

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Devil

I'll believe that a corporation is a person when it can be drafted or imprisoned.

How about executed?

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=1810

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2002/02oct-nov/oct-nov02corp1.html

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporations-us/

https://www.adbusters.org/blogs/corpo.html

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

Sherrie, you're obviously one of the "Gruber Democrat's". You know, the ones so stupid they have to be lied to to so that laws that will really benefit them (really !) can get passed without knowing what's really in them.

No politicians are on the side of "truth, justice, and the American Way", despite what they say, so open your eyes for a change.

Apple happily sells to States like Connecticut that have more restrictive laws than Indiana on this matter, without complaint. And the Governorship is held by whic party (go on, have a guess). This is just another dog-whistle beatup. Apple also happily sells in Saudi Arabia, very "gay friendly" are they not ? So Tim Cook can take his hypocrisy and shove it where he likes.

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Silver badge

Re: Sherrie, you're obviously one of the "Gruber Democrat's"

Hey, AC. Hiding your name while insulting other people is pathetic.

You have a user name, use it or fuck off.

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WTF?

@AC: Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

AC,

wuss....

J

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

>They do not get to have religions.

They do sadly when your country is partially founded by religious crazies the UK and the rest of Europe kicked out. (The other big early faction is also still found in the GOP (bipartisan actually) the questionable ethics get rich quick crowd).

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government

So read the other laws, even the one in Illinois that Obama helped put in place.

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Re: So what about the other nineteen states and the U.S. Government @Sherrie Ludwig

Read some history and comprehend it. The REPUBLICANS are the party that promoted racial equality back in the 60's. It was the Southern Democrats that were the party of the KKK.

The Republicans are not twisting anything, especially the Constitution. It is in fact the shouty LGBT minority that has hijacked justice in this case by vilifying Christianity everywhere without cause or similar criticism from the media.

You and your people are Theophobes and Bigots yourself. NOBODY has ever tried to twist the laws and Constituition of this country as much as the Liar in Chief and his group of Democrat Flunkies. The fact that they would try to overthrow the division between Church and State does not surprise me. You people want an Atheocracy.

It was under his watch that the Supeme Court decided that a corporation had the same Federal rights as a person.

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Welcome, Indiana, to the 19th century.

There's another state swirling further down the bowl than Arizona? Arizona, you may recall, is the home of Sheriff Joe "Bustin' Illegals" Arpaio, former U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater, State Senators who say, on camera and in seriousness, that the world is only 6000 years old, and other shining intellectual lights, yet the previous governor had the sense to realize that bigotry does. not. pay. and vetoed the bill (granted, this was done after an embarrassing preamble about how every time someone can not refuse service to denizens of LGBT Nation, religious freedom dies). Indiana could not even do this?

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Re: Barry Goldwater

Senator Goldwater was very vocal in both his condemnation of the Religious Right (repeatedly warning against their attempt to take over the Republican Party) and his support for gay rights.

http://bluenc.com/content/barry-goldwater-religious-right-and-gay-rights

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Re: Barry Goldwater

Evan Mecham on the other hand. Arizona is the land of bat shit crazy politicians. Every year they have at least one bill that makes national news and makes the whole state look like ass hats.

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Re: Barry Goldwater

True. He is alleged to have said about LGBT people in the military "I don't care if they are straight as long as they can shoot straight". However, he his held up as a beacon of Conservatism(TM), and many of his followers oppose LGBT equality, which is why I listed him. Perhaps I should have given that more thought.

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A very clever piece of social engineering by these corporations

If you want to piss all over the democratic process, take direct control of legislative and governmental processes, and turn your democracy into plutocracy:

1. Wait until a government passes a law or regulation that pisses off the tolerance crowd.

2. Threaten sanctions against said government unless it falls into line with the demands of said tolerance crowd.

3. Smear anyone who calls out this attempted political takeover as racist/sexist/misogynist/homophobe/xenophobe/[insert PC buzzword of choice]/etc.

4. Enjoy the political precedent you've set in the popular consciousness that big corporations are the good guys and should be allowed, nay encouraged, to meddle in political processes.

5. ???

6. PROFIT!

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Re: A very clever piece of social engineering by these corporations

You mean like in the south in the 1960s?

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