OK, they're not ROBOT BUTLERS, but Internet of Home 'Things' are getting smarter

Re: "Why anyone would ever want 22 different wash cycles or more is another matter."

Tried several programme settings on my new washing machine before deciding that number "1" was all that was needed for my wash load - usually once every couple of weeks.

However recently the "spin and empty" setting has become essential. In between washes the drum now has a visible filling of water after a few days - and the programme insists on taking 15 minutes to empty it even though there are no clothes to spin.

The machine is just coming to the end of its 12 month guarantee. With threats of £100 charge if an engineer can not see a fault it is a tricky one to report. Switching off the electricity at the isolator switch appeared to stop it happening - but more tests are needed to be conclusive. The machine itself has a only an automatic "hibernation" mode - and no mechanical "on/off" switch.

The joke is that a feature of the machine is an "anti-flood" mechanism that is supposed to prevent such catastrophes. In the past 40 years none of my washing machines have had that problem.

It reminds me of the notice on my desk in the office "Every solution breeds a new calamity".

Re: "Why anyone would ever want 22 different wash cycles or more is another matter."

I expect that a smart washing machine allows me to play dumb. Why should I waste time thinking about the duration of the rinse cycle if the machine should be able to figure it out without me? After all, it contains all those smart sensors and can make decisions based on the full engineering brainpower of the manufacturer.

I love our LG machine that allows me to fill a 19 kg drum with a few briefs and it'll figure out how much water and time it needs without me second guessing it. That's what I call progress!

Re: Smarter may not necessarily be better...

Would you like some fabric softener in your tea?

Re: All your pizzas are ours

Indeed, scenarios like this /will/ happen if the security is not properly sorted out /now/, including pre-planned support for later firmware/hardware updates for improving security. This is why I'm loath to buy much IoT kit currently, especially anything which needs a dedicated internet server to be usable.

My internet enabled weather station is my only IoT device and locked down by my router firewall from accessing anything but a single weather site on the internet.

Possible exploits for IoT devices may include:

* a central heating system which chills or cooks you, or deliberately wastes energy while you are out.

* a washing machine which is programmed to badly wash or dry your clothes, even ruin them.

* a tumble dryer which is programmed to waste energy, ruin your clothes, cause other damage or a fire.

* a cooking appliance which is programmed to ruin food, waste energy, cause other damage or a fire.

* an internal sensor(s) used or appliance programmes used to detect when the best time is to steal stuff from you or just spy on you for other nefarious reasons.

* an electronic lock(s) which is hacked to let thieves or other nefarious people inside.

* an appliance becomes unusable because your appliance wireless, IoT hub, router or broadband is broken, or had a hacked firmware update..

I'd need a seriously good reason to allow any device which uses UPnP or manually open internet ports, because that could easily become a massive security risk!

Re: All your pizzas are ours

You can literally bank on it happening.

Re: Cheaper power

Which lies have you heard about your 'free' smart meter?

'It will only cost an extra £20 on your bill.'

'Your bill will only go up by £20 per year.'

'It will only increase you bill by £20 for the fist year, £40 for the second and £60 for the third.'

The staged increases in electricity bills have already been approved to cover the cost and installation of smart meters. There is no requirement that bills should go back down afterwards. I am looking forward to MPs getting an e-mail like this:

I pwn your smart meter. I will let you have power between 12:00 and 13:00. If you want power for a whole month, send me a bitcoin.

Re: This is just stupid

Having invented the 'smart fridge' it seems some companies just won't give up on the blasted thing. I suppose having a camera so you can see what's inside is almost an admission that earlier iterations screwed up, because the idea of having to scan everything in and out of your fridge, and thus only ever buying things that had compatible bar codes or RFID tags was clearly bonkers.

At least with a camera you can buy what the hell you like, and not worry if it's incompatible with the fridge. But still, meh...

Re: This is just stupid

"Anyone able to afford such fridge would have enough brain cells to estimate when he's going to run out of beer."

Given enough beer he might have run out of brain cells.

Re: This is just stupid

Frankly, the idea of putting beer in the fridge disturbs me.

Re: This is just stupid

My new Bosch one (from John Lewis) saves a lot of water and power, has load of programmes (including /fast/ ones), lots of options, is piss easy to operate, quiet, tells you how long a programme will take before you start it, how long it has left to go and beeps when done; all for about £100 less that the LG one, let alone the other rip-offs listed!

The thing which really needs IoT is central heating and cooking kit, but with proper security and a physical heating on/off flip switch.

Most central heating controllers are still stuck in the pathetically archaic single zone model, including most commercial IoT ones, including Nest; mechanical radiator thermostat valves only partly improve on this and need a wasteful fixed bleed radiator to bleed pressure until the central heating water pump stops! We should already be able to easily buy affordable prioritised /each/ room-zoned variable temperature programming using automated radiator valves and radiator water flow sensors, with a smart central WiFi and BlueTooth 4 controller designed to dynamically and safely use any appropriate radiator(s) as a full pressure bleed until the central heating water pump stops.

Re: This is just stupid

"Anyone able to afford such fridge would have enough brain cells to estimate when he's going to run out of beer."

I am often surprised, neigh, agonizingly frustrated, at how many people who can afford things like this are incredibly, incredibly stupid outside of their area of expertise.

Money truly does cover up a multitude of sins.

Re: I don't get it…

" and you'll be there to remove it, so what's the point of the app…?"

It's a question of remembering in time to get it outside to dry in the garden. As a wash cycle takes 3 hours - then that is the morning gone. You need to get it out to dry for the whole afternoon especially in winter.

My current solution is a Hygiplas timer. Quick to set - and unlike mechanical timers it keeps bleeping every second after the end of the period until it is reset. The batteries last for years. However - you have to remember to set it - and you have to double-check that the multi-function button's "bleep" really was the countdown starting. The human is always the weak link.

Re: Count me out

BIG security risk. And it WILL be hacked.

Just ask that teenager who hacked a BMW for less than $20 of electronic parts.

Re: Plurality of Protocols

Which means that either you're locked into a given phone and OS or.... when the phone dies, you replace all the appliances.

Re: The big problem (and risk) is connectivity

Amen.

With the security issues we've seen so far, not to mention the potential privacy issues, and the risks that both of these bring, I don't see any incentive to bother with any of this internet of things guff.

As I keep saying, for me it's more of a potential internet of unwanted things: iOUT!

Re: The big problem (and risk) is connectivity

In my opinion, there needs to be two classes of IoT devices, master devices and slave devices. The slave devices provide information and RPC to the master device, which then weaves the information and RPC in to user interfaces and controllable actions.

The user would own both types of devices, the slave devices are cryptographically paired to the master device, and data only passes from slave devices to the master device. The master device can then provide that data to third party internet services based upon the single set of security permissions granted on the master device.

The current form of "smart home" devices are anything but. They are all "slave devices", which pump your data to a central server on the internet, which then makes the "smart" choices. This hides that your personal data (eg, heating information) is then available for the providing entity to mine or analyze how they see fit. Do Not Want.