back to article Anonymous: Snap on that Guy Fawkes mask, we're marching against child sex abuse

Hacktivist group Anonymous is calling for a day of protest against paedophiles who take advantage of their wealth and power to abuse children. Operation Death Eaters aims to rally people in preparation for a series of street protests, scheduled for Friday, 13 February. The campaign – which references disturbing cases in the …

Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

Something nobody is really going to justify and say 'Actually I'm deeply pro-malaria'.

What good does marching against something everyone agrees is illegal already? Who are you sticking it to? Are you saying the police should 'do something'? They are doing something. The whole justice system is deeply geared up to punish paedophiles already. I doubt it could be made more critical of paedophilia TBH - statutory rape of a minor has terms akin to murder, so what iis the march for, exactly?

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Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

Think you will find this march is more about keeping the 'Westminster paedophile ring' (Pimlico house/Dolphin square?) investigation in the public eye so it cannot be swept under the carpet allegedly like many other investigation from around a similar time in history.

Not a general march against catching diseases from underage mosquito's or whatever.

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Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

>The whole justice system is deeply geared up to punish paedophiles already. I doubt it could be made more critical of paedophilia TBH - statutory rape of a minor has terms akin to murder, so what iis the march for, exactly?

The protesters take the view that the justice system has failed the victims of child abuse, especially historically. As we have seen with the Catholic Church, the structure of some organisations can offer individuals the opportunity to abuse children, and to have their colleagues ignore complaints or cover up their crimes. People working for churches, schools, children's homes and in entertainment have been convicted of child abuse, organisations that structurally aren't too different from police forces, the judiciary and politics.

Many of the survivors of abuse become troubled teenagers and young adults, and have issues with substances abuse, mental health and petite crime... this places them at a great disadvantage when making complaints or testifying against well-connected 'pillars of the community', should they even overcome their distrust of authority figures enough to even make a complaint in the first place.

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Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

> Are you saying the police should 'do something'? They are doing something.

Really? What do the names Rotherham and Rochdale mean to you in the context of recent news coverage?

>Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

No, it isn't. It would be more the equivalent of marching against people being paid to research malaria but who are just sitting about.

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Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

'The protesters take the view that the justice system has failed the victims of child abuse, especially historically' - absolutely, it has, and the fact we're seeing so many prosecutions recently means, well, that's actually being redressed with vigour and determination.

I abhor the enormous damage paedophiles have on their victims - sadly I've seen first-hand just how devastating that can be over DECADES. I am incredibly glad that we're no longer in the 70's and 80's and times when everything was hushed up - now with everything going public and people unable to hide behind their social standing, maybe just maybe it'll help people come forwards and catch paedophiles earlier, reduce the culture of secrecy in which they can thrive.

Just not sure what benefit a march in masks promoting Warner Bros IP is going to do to improve that? It's like the lamest possible version of vigilantism.

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Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

>Just not sure what benefit a march in masks promoting Warner Bros IP is going to do to improve that? It's like the lamest possible version of vigilantism.

I largely agree, Cliff. However, unlike past campaigns by national papers, it probably won't do any harm. After all, however lame the protest, they are only asking that a proper inquiry be conducted - so I'm inclined to give them benefit of the doubt this time.

You're right though - given the reasonableness of Anon's demands on this occasion, I don't see the need for the masks.

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Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

"No, it isn't. It would be more the equivalent of marching against people being paid to research malaria but who are just sitting about."

In one case it would appear the dossier on child sexual abuse was handed to someone (Leon Brittan, now deceased) who's now suspected of having been a member of the very ring which was performing child sexual abuse. Given the "someone" was Home Secretary at the time it's not overly surprising that evidence into the Elm Guest House scandal went missing "on an industrial scale" as Keith Vaz put it.

As with Saville, it's a lot easier to bring out the evidence now the culprit is dead and can't litigate people into silence, although I imagine the remaining living members will be doing their best to keep victims quiet.

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Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

"You're right though - given the reasonableness of Anon's demands on this occasion, I don't see the need for the masks."

I do: Many of the people involved in the abuse rings are both still alive and still in positions of power and influence.

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Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

They're not protesting pedophilia. They're protesting the corrupt system that lets rich and powerful pedophiles get away with it because they're rich and powerful. And frankly I can agree with them here. It's a real problem and the only people in a position to fix it currently are the ones who are causing it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

>They're protesting the corrupt system that lets rich and powerful pedophiles get away with it because they're rich and powerful.

As any student of history can tell you, the immaturity of one's sexual partners/victims was a demonstration of one's high status. Only the powerful could get away with doing what normal people would rightly find abhorrent.

See the Roman emperor Tiberius for starters [Not Suitable For Anywhere].

Private Eye reported on Jonathan King showing off young boys in the late Sixties... he wasn't prosecuted until 2001.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Isn't this the equivalent of marching against malaria?

It would be nice if Anonymous would use their hacking powers to discover the dark nets and other hangouts that pedophiles use and turn this information over to the police. Yes, everyone recognizes that pedophilia is illegal already. What we need is a way to track those beasts online and shut down the operations of those who use the internet to exploit children

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oh gawd, they're gonna start naming and shaming. and if they name the wrong people.... /o\

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Anonymous Coward

Like that officer that (didnt) shot Michael Brown

Ocourse anon ops are like little terror cells. Some are better at what they do than others

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>oh gawd, they're gonna start naming and shaming. and if they name the wrong people.... /o\

They don't seem to be doing a 'News of the World' and naming and shaming - or indeed indulging in any direct action. By their own words they are merely demanding that the Inquiry into Historic Child Abuse actually gets going, and isn't artificially limited in its scope as previous inquiries have been.

Whatever one thinks of their past actions, in this case they are behaving more responsibly than any Red Top newspaper.

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What could possibly go wrong?

Probably a good idea for all paediatricians, paedogogues, pedestrians, pedants, pedalo owners and podiatrists to leave the country for a few days around then.

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Re: What could possibly go wrong?

Chris Morris and Brass Eye did a much needed and superb job of lampooning the media hysteria surrounding paedophilia. However, whilst the red tops like the News of the World were inciting vigilantism by people who didn't know what a 'paediatrician' was, Anonymous are merely calling for inquiries into the abuse of power:

"We demand independent inquiries untainted by the corrupt, with full power to investigate. We demand an end to secrecy,"

Well, they can dream. The record of British public inquiries is a bit poor. The current one into historic child abuse has failed to get off the ground. Chilcot's inquiry into the Iraq War has taken six years so far. Anonymous's view of this is no different to the writers of Yes Minister:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FRVvjGL2C0

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Devil

Re: What could possibly go wrong?

Unfortunately, Anonymous are doing much more than that. They're talking about "collecting evidence". And they're intent on proving a vast conspiracy of child abusers that must, of necessity, span across law enforcement, politics, big business and big money.

The fact that they need to "prove" this conspiracy, to justify their own action, should scare the living shit out of - well, just about everyone with an internet connection. Because you know what happens when people set out to prove conspiracies? "Invisible evidence", that's what. "If we can't prove you're a paedo, that must mean someone is helping you cover up." It's not "innocent until proven guilty", it's not even "guilty until proven innocent", it's just "once accused you're guilty, end of story".

Anonymous has already done this. What do you think their standards of proof were then? What do you think they are now?

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Re: What could possibly go wrong?

"Chilcot's inquiry into the Iraq War has taken six years so far."

I wonder what would happen if the unredacted version leaked.

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Re: What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing, it wouldn;t show anything - the delay is simply because the guily flee even when none pursue

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Anonymous Coward

This is after they got rid of all terrorist websites and social media the other week then?

Phew, glad they're all gone now, thanks Anonymous!

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Smith & Jones said it best

Jones: "I don't agree with those child abusers! It's a disgrace! There ought to be a law against it!"

Smith: "There is."

Jones: "Oh. well..."

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Anonymous Coward

'Operation Death Eaters'

Wow, now there's a name for an operation. As well as the 'V' Guy Fawkes mask, are the protesters going to have the 'dark mark' tatooed on their forearms?

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Re: 'Operation Death Eaters'

I think a better name would be "Operation Paedo Finder General".

Did you not yourself admit to being a "Fiddler on the roof?" A KIDDY-FIDDLER!

By the power vested in me by hysterical tabloid newspaper readers, I decree you GUILTY OF PAEDOPHILIA!

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Black Helicopters

Re: 'Operation Death Eaters'

I think the idea, rather, is to compare the the alleged cabal of powerful "paedosadists" to Voldemort's secret followers. The analogy is vaguely fitting, I suppose, although I remain skeptical that such a conspiracy really exists.

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Mental

We will never know what was in Geoffrey Dickens dossier, but I suspect a civil servant would have looked at it then tossed it in the bin. Dickens was a total crackpot, and in a sane world would be ridiculed by Anonymous.

The following links are perhaps instructive; it is interesting that these aspects of Dickens are not mentioned in recent mainstream news stories, perhaps because they would undermine the 'paedospiracy' agenda:

http://swallowingthecamel.me/2011/07/29/the-prodigal-witch-xi-audrey-harper/

http://www.saff.ukhq.co.uk/dickens.htm

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mental

Maybe the Dickens stuff was mental - we can't tell cause it is not anywhere to be found...

It doesn't detract that the #opDeathEaters information that is appearing on Twitter is horrific and the perpetrators of those child crimes need to be brought to justice in a court of law with a jury.

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Re: Mental

"Dickens was a total crackpot, and in a sane world would be ridiculed by Anonymous."

Perhaps, but...

1: there seems to be substance to some of the claims, else newspaper editors with copies wouldn't have been given D-notices and had their copies removed

2: The fact that the dossier has been "disappeared" means it's hard to examine either way.

Outlandish claims should be allowed to lay open in order to be discredited, not made to disappear..

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Anonymous Coward

Why

Would you join this event wearing a mask.

Nothing to hide about. Are you going to end up on a police file with "protested peacefully about investigations into criminal wrongdoing" writ below your mugshot?

(I am aware of possible irony using anon commenting)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Why

Realistically you don't have to, plenty of protesters don't, and I wouldn't doubt if other groups latch on to the OP who support the agenda. Anonymous associated itself with V (IE the Guy Fawkes mask). It a group of collective individuals, who share an interest, and use the mask as it's unifying association.

You could simplify it by comparing it to any groups that use items for solidarity or association, such as a football team emblems. This just happens to be a the way off associating with anonymous.

It's not hiding what so ever, most anons protesting are aware that the masks don't give you protection if you're arrested etc. It's more of a solidarity thing, supporting a groups OP, and joining with like minded people on the streets.

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Anonymous Coward

Way beyond paedos

The kind of abuse that is now (just) starting to surface goes way beyond just(!) paedo activity. It's been going on for many decades and involves stuff you don't want to know about.

The police know about it. They even know who's involved. The problem so far is that the victims are either so conditioned that they won't come forward or if they do (and it's rare) they are not fit to testify.

It looks like it might just start to crack though.

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Re: Way beyond paedos

All the corrupt practices the world over happen in the developed world just as they do in the developing, it's just better kept hidden. Occasionally we find out about instances of slavery, not just sexual either, but unless you are very observant, it's not available. That's one of the nicer things about the internet, the barriers to communication are less.

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Re: Way beyond paedos

"That's one of the nicer things about the internet, the barriers to communication are less."

it's one of the reasons that those in power are terrified of it.

They can no longer control the spread of information - which is why they seek any means possible to rein it in, The "terrorism" label is currently proving much easier a stick to wield in this quest than other ones.

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Stop

Re: Way beyond paedos

> They can no longer control the spread of information

I am old enough to remember the national hysteria over "Satanic Abuse" during the 1980's which resulted in some families having their children forcibly removed, as I recall, with no more evidence than could be fabricated and whipped up by and within groups of mis-guided social work teams. It became clear that there was NO organised Satanic Abuse, and the whole thing was just Salem Witch Trials all over again, though luckily no-one got burned at any stakes.

Now, with the WWW, the pot in which such anti-$BAD_THING fervour can be whipped up is so much bigger, and the froth that can be generated is so much larger, so that the danger of DIS-information is greater. I am, of course, in favour of real information being collected, sieved, collated, and verified. The interwebz are very bad at this. One has to decide whom one is to believe, at all times, everywhere. The critical questions are "Who is telling me this?" and "Why are they telling me?"

When Anon on The Register tells me that stuff is happening "Way beyond paedos", with unsupported statements, I'm afraid I don't get very satisfactory answers to those questions.

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I wonder if anyone has ever told Anonymous what happened to Guy Fawkes? He isn't someone to emulate, he was set-up as a fall guy by the Chancellor of the day, and killed in a very brutal fashion. His behaviour allowed for the government to gain popular support for the additional persecutions of a religious group.

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Guy Fawkes - Another Scapegoat - Have an upvote

This has been overlooked of late, maybe on purpose in order to make burning at the stake new and fashionable again like putting coko logos on yo yos and calling them spinners.

The government partly encouraged this rampant paranoia to further it's own agends as the terrorist thing didn't seem enough justification for a clampdown on the population at large (or maybe as a fallback). Now they've stoked the paranoia to the point it has dropped into the conspiracy level and come back to bite them.

Of course they don't want to complete any review or investigation. Whether they have something to hide or not is not the issue, that the whole exercise no longer serves their agends is.

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>I wonder if anyone has ever told Anonymous what happened to Guy Fawkes?

Yes, Alan Moore has:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16968689

Anonymous don't emulate Guy Fawkes, they emulate a character called V. Why Moore played upon Fawkes is explained in the link above.

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Coat

Gatsby paraphrase delight

The rich (and powerful) are not like the rest of us. True, they get away with their crimes

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