back to article Windows 7 MARKED for DEATH by Microsoft as of NOW

Today, 13 January, is the day on which Microsoft's Windows 7 passes from mainstream support into extended support. The milestone is the first on the road to Microsoft pulling the plug on January 14th, 2020. Windows 7 is a widely-admired version of Windows, as it is more stable than its predecessor Windows Vista and did not …

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WTF?

I'm still in the middle of multiple multi-year Win7 rollout contracts.

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Re: WTF?

Can I hazard a guess that you work for a Bank, the Government or an Insurer ?

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Re: WTF?

It's a bit early for banks and Govs to adopt win 7 - I would say they'll be starting their rollouts, oh say around 2020 sometime...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

Most banks I know moved to Win 7 2-3 years ago.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

I'm still in the middle of multiple multi-year Win7 rollout contracts.

You don't get any sympathy from me. You knew it is going to happen again.

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Silver badge

Re: WTF?

But that's why you're deploying it - W7 is now stable so you can lock it down!

MS have effectively promised there will be no new functionality in W7, so there is little risk of MS now doing a 8->8.1 style and level of change.

The downside as we saw with XP (and previous versions), MS refusing to put key new functionality into XP such as: SATA drivers, Fully fledged WiFi client ...

Given the mess up with 8, and the delivery timescale constraints on 10, I expect 10 to contain little new real functionally with much being reserved for 11. Which is just fine, provided it ships in c.2017, as I suspect few enterprises will contemplate a wholesale upgrade from 7 anytime before then.

A real question is when will MS stop selling a 32-bit desktop OS, my money is 11 coming in a 64-bit version...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

Most banks I know moved to Win 7 2-3 years ago.

There are probably a lot of dodgy organisations that would like to know which banks did that. Rolling stuff out early like that may be a sign that they are keener on shinyness than security!

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Re: WTF?

One of our clients, a finance house, starts theirs on Monday.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

W7 is now stable so you can lock it down!

Stable? They'll be pulling the plug in five years!

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Re: WTF?

You don't know many banks. You might want to tell their cashpoints "department", some near me still run XP. I know because they blue screen in old XP style.

:)

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Re: WTF?

Banks lol - was at a cashpoint the other week -- the one next to me then crashed and rebooted something called OS2 Warp?

;)

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Silver badge

Re: WTF?

Year before last: local council, JobCentrePlus; last year: GPs surgeries, Menzies Depots, thecompanyformerlyknownas MottMcDonald; this year: Balfour Beatty.

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Thumb Down

Re: WTF?

Win7 in banks? Anon's conclusion keener on shinyness than security

Just finish your studies before commenting.

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Re: WTF?

Banks lol - was at a cashpoint the other week -- the one next to me then crashed and rebooted something called OS2 Warp?

Consider yourself lucky. The upgrade path for those ATMs over here has been Windows NT. Yes, I didn't say XP or Vista or 7. I said "Windows NT". I fear those ATMs...

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Re: WTF?

"MS refusing to put key new functionality into XP such as: SATA drivers"

I don't understand. I have used SATA drives with XP for years.

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Re: WTF?

The drivers are not included on the installation media. For a new installation you either have to roll your own installer, or put the requisite files on a floppy disk. Your computer does have a floppy drive, right?

-A.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

Or set your drive to not use AHCI before installation. Let's face it, for anything still running XP you probably don't even need to turn it back...

Never had an issue installing XP to a SATA drive or from a SATA Optical drive.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: WTF?

Banks lol - was at a cashpoint the other week -- the one next to me then crashed and rebooted something called OS2 Warp?

Consider yourself lucky. The upgrade path for those ATMs over here has been Windows NT. Yes, I didn't say XP or Vista or 7. I said "Windows NT". I fear those ATMs...

At least both OS/2 and Windows NT (<= 4.0) based ATMs are immune to almost all* attacks via USB.

(* the BIOS might recognise USB HID and do PS/2 keyboard/mouse emulation.)

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kb

Re: WTF?

Its nothing to worry about as its only the end of MAINSTREAM support which is defined by MSFT as the period "when new features CAN be added"..question, can you remember any "new features" added during the previous 5 years? Can you remember any "new features" added to Vista during its mainstream period?

I've tried and the closest I can come up with is Dreamscene for Vista which was IRL just a CYA to keep MSFT from getting a class action over Balmer saying those that shelled out 3 bills for Vista Ultimate would get "Ultimate Extras" like preorder DLC. Other than that? yeah I can't think of nothing.

Might as well say "Windows 7 is kinda sorta possibly in the middle of its life, if it don't get extended like XP did" because we all saw how many times MSFT had to hit the time out button on XP, wouldn't surprise me if they have to do the same with 7.

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711

Now that would be an intersting move, from 7 to 11, are they thinking about bringing back Bob and dressing him in a green grocer's jacket.

[MS Please stop fucking about radically with the interface and everything will be hunky dory, Desktops are desktops, tablets are tablets, phones are phones... My car dashboard does not use the same UX as my microwave, which is different from my radiator controller and I am happy that way .]

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Childcatcher

Re: 711

MS Please stop fucking about radically with the interface and everything will be hunky dory, Desktops are desktops, tablets are tablets, phones are phones...

You dare suggest form should follow function? What's wrong with you?

Microsoft put out an add-on pack for Windows 95 called MS Plus (hmm, sounds like something requiring penicillin to cure). It offered a lot of tweaks for the desktop and people really liked it. Rather than forcing consumers to pick from the one UI they offer, I can't understand why they don't extend the idea of desktop themes to the entire UI, allowing home users to set things up however they want and BOFHs to define every aspect of the UI in corporate environments.

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Re: 711

I quite agree - I have two cars, one built in 1989, the other in 2011, by very different manufacturers. Both have similar instruments in similar places, a gear stick, rear-view mirror and steering wheel in the same places, doors and wheels in the same places (OK, one has the hand brake on the right, and a few buttons and switches are different) but fundamentally they work the same way. I want computers to do the same. I don't expect my keyboard layout to change every time I buy a new one, ditto with my desktop OS. Fine, when I buy my first driverless car (sometime in the 2040s) THEN I'll expect a radical change of instrument layout, but only because the function has changed!

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Happy

Re: 711

Fine, when I buy my first driverless car (sometime in the 2040s) THEN I'll expect a radical change of instrument layout, but only because the function has changed!

Fine until you discover the trolley problem resolution mode/emergency mode is "over to you" - a fall back to full manual control...

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LDS
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Re: 711

But look at how your phones changed in the past forty years... in the '70s I had a rotary deal fixed phone. Later they had a button keyboard - then they became mobile, still with a keyboard. Then the keyboard went away, and to make a call you have fist to unlock the phone, get to the phone app, and then either select from a list of contacts or invoke the keyboard... of course what didn't change depends on the relative position of your ears and mouth...

Cars didn't see much changes because retraining the drivers could be expensive and dangerous - that's why you don't see joystick instead of wheels, even if some high-end cars may have F1-alike gear commands. Of course some components like wheels needs to be in the same place because physics dictates so, like doors on the roof or bottom will be a little uncomfortable. Some controls like turn indicators have been in the same place for ages, up to the point that people don't care about them at all today, and forgot to use them when they should - especially since they don't use the rear mirror but to check lipstick or tie before getting off the car, and find that position today a little uncomfortable, in the middle of the wheel it would be more useful.

But there was a time around the '80s when some genial engineers decided to put the claxon button on the indicator lever insted ot the wheel, or putting the parking brake command in places where the passenger can't activate it in case of an emergency. And most moder cars require you to disassemnble half engine to replace a failed bulb... and in my car the gear stick interferes with the climatization controls.... bad UI design as well. Also, it is now often common to put the tachimeter and rpm dials apart from each other, with some display with far less useful (but colorful) informations in the middle, like the current date, outside temperature, radio station, etc. Some have rpm on the right, others on the left. I would by far prefer to have speed and rmp data in the center (and always in the same order), and auxiliary informations on the sides. Again, bad UI choice dictated by marketing reasons and not ergonomics.

But looks at airplanes, where specific training for each model is needed. Boeing planes still have a yoke, while Airbus models have joystick-like sticks on pilot sides (meaning pilot an co-pilot use one the left hand and the other the right hand...). But cockpit UIs follow much more stricter rules - important controls and dials are well placed and always in the same position, because a pilot is trained to scan them in a given sequence which ensure safety.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 711

Yes please, let's have UI fragmentation just like Linux, that's the way!

The biggest strength of Windows (and the biggest fuck-up of Windows 8) is that you can sit down at any Windows PC and find a familiar environment, and instantly be productive without having to re-learn basic things. This benefits both home and work users, since a lot of people use PCs at home and at work. So please don't let's allow home users to fuck things up however they want. One UI - one good UI - for everyone, please.

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Re: 711

"Some controls like turn indicators have been in the same place for ages"

Not entirely true. Some models here in Oz have them on the right stalk (which is correct), others have them on the left stalk. The wise road user eventually learns to recognise that if the wipers begin to operate then the approaching vehicle may well turn across your path.

I suspect the left-stalkers are cheap factory conversions for the Oz market.

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Happy

Re: 711

Same in the Uk.

If you see someones wipers go on when approaching a junction turning, inevitably. it's a new car to them.

As for the horn on the steering wheel... I thought that was a new thing, growing up with cars with it always on the indicator stalk!

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Re: 711

I think my indicators/wiper controls have switched sides with almost every change of vehicle - which was quite frequent when I used to drive off-road for fun. (Sometimes during that period I had two cars on the go - one for general day to day driving, and a 4x4 for the mud plugging, and the indicator/wiper controls tended to be on the opposite side in each!)

I haven't done that in donkey's years, and I've now had the same car on the road for about four years - but every once in while, I do still try to indicate with my wipers.

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Mushroom

Re: 711

Yes please, let's have UI fragmentation just like Linux, that's the way!

And do you know why there is so much UI fragmentation in Linux? Consider GNOME 3, KDE 4 or Unity, for example. The predecessors and many of the successors such as Cinnamon or MATE ended up the way they were for exactly the same reason as why people bitch and moan about Windows 8.x - the people behind the UIs didn't listen and instead went on their merry way without realising that the design used in classics such as KDE 3 ended up that way because people were familiar with them. They did what users wanted them to do. When you look at KDE 3 you may notice a certain similarity with the XP/Vista environment. Heck, I even still use KDE 3 myself, mostly because of the crappy job that the KDE team did with KDE 4 IMHO. GNOME is the same; if it wasn't, Cinnamon and MATE would never have come into existance.

So it is with Linux, so it is with Windows too. Same cause, same effect. Microsoft had Sinovsky, Linux has Poettering. Same shit, different packaging.

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Devil

Re: 711

The dreaded "fragmentation" of Linux involve a small number of UIs that each are less unlike each other than Metro is to anything else. The kicker with Linux is that if your OS vendor pulls a Metro or a Unity, you aren't just hung out to dry. You can just use what you're used to.

What allows that "fragmentation" is a double edged sword and it's not all bad.

It means I can retain my UI when Canonical runs amok.

If you want to really annoy and confuse "normal" users, give them a Mac.

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Re: 711

But look at how your phones changed in the past forty years... of course what didn't change depends on the relative position of your ears and mouth...

Phones changed because the functionality changed. With the introduction of automated switching gear you no longer had to bounce the lever a few times and say "Hi Mildred, can you connect me with 8394 Chicago?... Thanks Mildred" as you could dial the number directly. Function changed slightly with the DTMF making buttons more efficient. Trust me when I say I shouldn't get started on "smart" phones where the phone part is more an added-on afterthought than principle function but even the ears and mouth relation no longer has a bearing on the phone design if you're using an ear bud and mic which could easily be in finger cots on your thumb and little finger.

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Re: 711

"for exactly the same reason as why people bitch and moan about Windows 8.x - the people behind the UIs didn't listen"

Unfortunately you're wrong about Windows 8. The reason for the Windows 8 UI is that people who are now bitching and moaning are the same people who declined to join the "customer experience improvement program" while their mum merrily said fine, go ahead. If you want your say then have your say. The people whose clicks were anonymously sent to MS are very happy indeed with Windows 8 and 8.1 but sadly they don't comment on El Reg so it seems a little one sided. Just you watch, the very mention that we could have made it better will get me a thousand down votes while everyone ignores that what I said makes sense. We may be unhappy about Windows 8 but the reasons are clear and documented by the team that wrote it. They blogged the reasoning behind every change and by George their reasoning was sound as a pound based on the evidence they had. For instance, not one person in the CEIP clicked somewhere other than the menu after clicking Start - this led to the crazy assumption that once Start was clicked that's all the user wanted to do so full screen would be more effective use of the screen. Madness.

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Re: 711

>one good UI - for everyone, please

That will be Motif then...

However: Motif was based on IBM's Common User Access (CUA) guidelines (as were Microsoft Windows and OS/2) and so had a visual appearance and mode of operation similar to that of Microsoft Windows (Classic) and OS/2. This, deliberate strategy, was to facilitate users using both Windows and Unix workstations and applications. I suspect MS decided that with the improvements in Linux, the Windows Classic UI/UX potentially made it too easy for users to switch to Linux, thus the Win8 UI was more an attempt to be different (as are the changes introduced into the MS Office UI).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 711

> I don't expect my keyboard layout to change every time I buy a new one

Mine changes every time I go Alt+TAB on it. :-)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 711

> you can sit down at any Windows PC and find a familiar environment, and instantly be productive without having to re-learn basic things

Err, no. It's only familiar if you have used a similar Windows version before. Try installing a Windows 3 copy somewhere and get someone who's never seen one to use it.

> one good UI - for everyone

You are not an engineer, or in the business of designing things, I see. For that matter, is not that the way Microsoft tried to go one or two years ago, rather ill-advisedly it would appear?

PS: I feel tempted to point out that all your requirements may be met by installing emacs, but I fear the vi brigade will downvote me into oblivion. :-)

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Re: 711

>Microsoft had Sinovsky, Linux has Poettering.

Had being the key word. Even the dinosaur Microsoft figured out Win8 was a butt fumble almost immediately and got rid of the reason and have been slowly recovering since. Poettering on the other hand is still around fucking Linux up mainly because Red Hat benefits from most OSS becoming one monolithic Linux only hairball.

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Re: shell choices

I suggested this years and years, possibly decades ago. Since then I have changed my mind. You people are not average users. Average users are thicker than pigshit and can barely find the power button. Changing anything causes them to panic. Allowing them to fiddle with options is a recipe for disaster. Suggesting DIY shell configuration is a malware wet dream.

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Re: 711

> The reason for the Windows 8 UI is that people who are now bitching and moaning are the same people who declined to join the "customer experience improvement program"

The revisionism is strong with this one. Microsoft intentionally ignored the loud outcry from the pre-releases due to arrogance and it not matching their corporate strategy. Also just because Microsoft got rid of their paid beta tester teams doesn't mean everyone should be an unpaid Microsoft intern to help them conqueror the world. That kind of attitude is why people laugh when Microsoft falls flat on its face.

"Windows 8 were developed in abject isolation from the outside world, because Microsoft disbanded the beta testing teams that had previously offered feedback at a very early point in development. Here, Microsoft was cherry-picking from the Apple playbook -- creating products in secret -- while ignoring the most important parts of that company’s strategy, such as its emphasis on keeping its products aggressively simple and effective. Dictating from on high only works when you make something that everyone loves."

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-8/windows-8-death-thousand-cuts

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Re: 711

>Just you watch, the very mention that we could have made it better will get me a thousand down votes while everyone ignores that what I said makes sense.

No you will get 20 down votes tops and the reason is because you are flat out wrong. Microsoft went out of their way not to listen to users because in their arrogance they knew best. The market had something else to say. Its also not my job or responsibility for them to make more money.

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Re: 711

"Unfortunately you're wrong about Windows 8. The reason for the Windows 8 UI is that people who are now bitching and moaning are the same people who declined to join the "customer experience improvement program" while their mum merrily said fine, go ahead."

My mum had windows 8 and hated it. Something about a touch interface OS on a computer with no touch screen. Gee my brother got chewed out for upgrading her.

Windows 8 was a total ballsup. The more new stuff you shove in, the more you should leave stuff the same. If the computer didn't have a touch screen it should have looked exactly like 7.

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Re: 711

My son's car in Thailand (where they also drive on the left) has the indicators on the opposite side to my own car here. It makes for an interesting first few days each time I go there or return here.

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joystick instead of wheels

Actually manufacturers would quite like to replace the steering wheel with something like a joystick -- it would free up a lot of interior space and make left/right-hand-drive conversion much simpler -- but they are not allowed to. Current regulations require a solid physical connection between the steering control and the steered wheels.

-A.

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MJI
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Re: 711

My British made & designed car has the indicators on the left.

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Re: joystick instead of wheels

"Current regulations require a solid physical connection between the steering control and the steered wheels."

I'm not sure where it says that. I've certainly driven something that only had a hydraulic connection between the steering control and steered wheels (and hydraulics don't work when the hydraulic oil is solid!)

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Re: 711

"Microsoft went out of their way not to listen to users because in their arrogance they knew best."

No, no, Microsoft went out of their way to ignore the minority who were very vocal in the technical community who had not participated in the CEIP. Their statistics clearly showed at the time that the majority of users would be happy with the changes. Just because on El Reg we hear the opinion of techies doesn't mean those techies are a majority or that they are right or even representative of normal users. Microsoft have billions of users to keep happy, and if a million techies don't like it then fine, that's still very nearly a billion users who are not unhappy. This was especially so with the weak arguments put forward by techies who claimed that a full screen menu somehow wasn't a menu, and a hidden button wasn't a button and didn't exist. They did make a bunch of mistakes on Win8, most of which were fixed on 8.1 but their reasoning for those changes was very sound, and with the evidence at hand many product teams would have made the same choices.

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Re: 711

"My mum had windows 8 and hated it. Something about a touch interface OS on a computer with no touch screen."

Yes, your mum came to that conclusion by herself. Is she a techie then, to have noticed it was a touch enabled interface? My mum was "quite pleased the buttons are bigger". Which sounds like a genuine comment from a middle aged woman?

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Re: 711

"My son's car in Thailand (where they also drive on the left) has the indicators on the opposite side to my own car here."

If it's a remotely recent car then what you mean is the stalk with indicator glyphs is on the opposite side. The actual function is computer controlled and you can move it with a laptop so that in theory you could turn the lights on with the horn button or lock the doors with the indicator stalk :)

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Re: 711

Wow Lusty you are something. You should see if you can get a job writing on Sinofsky's blog. They might even let you write the article trying to revise the history of why the APIs didn't converge before he was improperly shit canned. As I quote above Microsoft once again went me too trying to be like Apple and went out of their way to eliminate early general user feedback.

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Re: joystick instead of wheels

Ok, I had to look. I couldn't find any regs at NHTSA about a physical connection other than crash safety related things. I was able to find an article over at dual lever steering, of course that's just a concept.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 711

> Cars didn't see much changes because retraining the drivers could be expensive and dangerous - that's why you don't see joystick instead of wheels,

At a guess, the primary reason is because joysticks do not grip the asphalt quite as well as wheels.

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