back to article Sony FINGERS DDoS attackers for ruining PlayStation's Xmas

Sony has blamed distributed-denial-of-service (DDoS) attackers for causing PlayStation's network to go titsup on Christmas Day. The Japanese firm struggled for nearly three days to restore services, following an assault on its PSN login system. Microsoft's Xbox Live also suffered a DDoS attack on 25 December. But that service …

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Wrong side of somebody

Who did Sony piss off, or piss on? They're somebody's punching bag at the moment. Will be interesting to see if the recent rash of issues will be connected to the same group.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

Every hacker and their dog will have a go at Sony. They are now known as the company that caves in to hackers. So why not see if you can get some free goods or money from them? They brought this on themselves.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

Sony tried to rootkit their entire music-buying public, plus they sold the PS3 with a mini-linux on it which they yanked -without notice- in an update (so anyone buying it as a media server or some roll-your-own experiment got shafted).

Sony have not spent much time trying to make friends. Technically skilled people were affected by both issues, so Sony have not only pissed people off; they have pissed off the exact people you want to keep sweet if you run any kind of online empire.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

I take it you cannot read, as Sony did NOT cave into hackers. Which part of the story gave you that idea?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Wrong side of somebody

The part where they initially pulled the (The Interview) movie and said it would never see the light of day, to please the 'hackers'. Even the president of the USA voiced his opinion that they were yellow. They then grew or borrowed a pair and went ahead with the release but incredibly made it North America only, inviting the rest of the world to pirate the shit out of it. Smart move, not. So they lose all international revenue. Next watch out for them blaming piracy for them losing cash when the rest of the world ignores the official release in the summer.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

Sony tried to rootkit their entire music-buying public, plus they sold the PS3 with a mini-linux on it which they yanked -without notice- in an update

ALMOST A DECADE AGO and it wasn't like it was exactly an earth shatteringly fantastic Linux experience on it. I can only assume you never tried it. Technically skilled people were affected by both issues? Anyone technically skilled didn't bother running Linux on the PS3 because it was a joke and the DRM was a non-issue.

Stop trying to act all butthurt when I doubt you'd even entered puberty at the time.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

ALMOST A DECADE AGO and it wasn't like it was exactly an earth shatteringly fantastic Linux experience on it.

And? It's not like Sony have changed in that time. They still release an unlimited stream of proprietary formats and refuse to license their stuff reasonably (which results in anyone who buys into their proprietary crap getting screwed when there is no wide adoption and/or Sony jacks the price up.) Sony still are a member of the MAFIAA, urging copyright maximalism at every turn and actively working to prevent any sort of rational compromise.

I could go on and on. The point is: Sony isn't run by "good people". Or even "mediocre people". It's run by bad people. People who aren't satisfied with making good money, they're so greedy they have to put time, effort and money into desperately trying to control everything...and in the end it has not only earned them the ire of many a hacker, but it is is absolutely costing them their business, as customers have been leaving them in droves for years.

Weep for the innocent milled masses who work at Sony, but not for the death of the company, nor the unquestionably evil executives. Their unchecked greed and hubris are what led Sony to this. Compassion and sympathy for the body corporate are unwarranted.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

"Stop trying to act all butthurt when I doubt you'd even entered puberty at the time."

Old enough at the time to have kids; old enough to have bought a CD with it on (Natalie Imbruglia...still got it somewhere...it was a bugger to rip, as I recall); old enough to not have caught a dose because I'd switched autorun off (default was 'on' at the time); old enough to have to clear several friend's and relation's computers because I was the 'IT guy' for them; and old enough to be very, very nearly tempted to buy the PS3 as a private lightweight server that also happened to be a games machine.

I mentioned the two instances because those were clear, unambiguous instances of Sony being total twatnozzles. Nothing they've done since has led me to believe that they are worth doing business with including -most recently- their utter contempt for the security of their customers and their own bloody employees.

If you want to apologise for Sony, do business with them and even entrust your credit card to them then go ahead...I enjoy a bit of schadenfreude.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

being total twatnozzles

Thanks... that's a welcome addition to my vocabulary

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Wrong side of somebody

"The point is: Sony isn't run by "good people". Or even "mediocre people". It's run by bad people."

I hope you're also boycotting Google and Facebook and Microsoft and Apple and Samsung and just about every large corporation in the world?

Not saying I agree or disagree with you, but I hope you're consistent in your agression. As mentioned, the root kit fiasco was AGES ago (and only impacted people using a stupid OS). Get over it, live and forgive, breath in and release the anger. You'll feel better and maybe live longer too.

I bet you bare a grudge against all German people too don't you for another fiasco that was years and years ago?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Wrong side of somebody

Pretty much everything you said there is totally incorrect, Chinese whisper hand me down version of events.

"Sony tried to rootkit their entire music-buying public"

10,000 CD's 90% of which were recalled from stores and never actually got to consumers. It also wasn't Sony (it was a company called First4Internet, contracted by SonyBMG).

"plus they sold the PS3 with a mini-linux on it which they yanked -without notice- in an update"

The PS3 had an unadvertised, non-promoted feature that allowed OtherOS to be installed. However the idiot GeoHot attempted to use this as a vector to break the system for piracy. As a result, it was removed. If you want to blame someone, blame him, he demonstrated that consumers can't be trusted with nice things. (I say nice, but if you ever used YellowDogLinux on a PS3, you will know it was virtually useless, 4 minutes to boot, and so limited in memory, Firefox was a struggle to run).

I would go back to Xbox Live forums (or wherever you got your mis-information) and point out the inaccuracies that made you look such a gullible tool here.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

"10,000 CD's 90% of which were recalled from stores and never actually got to consumers. It also wasn't Sony (it was a company called First4Internet, contracted by SonyBMG)."

So you are saying

1) because it was recalled when they realized the shitstorm it would caused, it didn't really happen, and

2) it wasn't them that did it, it was a subcontractor, so isn't really their fault.

So compare these to

1) the Google WiFi slurp, which they claimed they didn't really do and stopped anyway, so it's fine, and

2) the deaths in the Qatar World Cup construction project, which are done by contractors so it's not really Qatar's fault.

I don't particularly hate on Sony, but that's an apologist stance, sorry.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

They didn't pull it in response to GoP, the major cinema chains refused to show it because of GoPs threats. Sony couldn't exactly release it if there was no cinema to release it to. So, they didn't care, the cinema chains 'caved'.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

forgive

Why? What possible incentive do I have to forgive them? What have they done to earn that forgiveness? Why would I forgive them when they keep compounding the error with further douchiness?

I can - and do - forgive some individuals and companies their failures. We're all human. But after a time a few isolated incidents form a pattern of behavior, and that I don't forgive. There's no rational reason to do so.

If you want forgiveness, earn it.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

@AC - Are you the same Ben Tasker that insisted that the DRM never reached these shores? The 10,000 figure does sound familiar, especially considering that Wikipedia puts the figure at 22 million. Bruce Schneier puts the number of computers infected at half a million. I would classify your 10,000 figure as a nugget of purest bollocks. I *know* you're talking out of your arse when you say that it never reached consumers because I am a consumer and I bought one, unknowingly. In Blighty, in a poxy middle-of-nowhere town in a high-street chain store (might have been Woolworths).

I would suggest you refrain from mentioning the rootkit until after you've researched what the fuck you're talking about.

Now onto the PS3. The feature WAS advertised and I did consider buying one on the strength of that. Can't say how useful it was because I didn't end up buying one. Even if it was pulled because of one user subverting it, you patch it so that that chicanery is no longer possible and you move on. You don't just torpedo absolutely fucking everyone in an update with no warning. Your apologia for Sony is just another example of them being dickbags.

Can't speak for the power (although the thing I had in mind didn't really require a lot) or usefulness of the OS because I didn't end up with one; mostly because I was (and am) dicked off with Sony about the rootkit thing.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

"The part where they initially pulled the (The Interview) movie and said it would never see the light of day, to please the 'hackers'."

Epic reading failure.

Sony pulled the film because all of their major theater outlets refused to run the film. If it released without making money, Sony would have lost massive amounts of money. Not releasing it, due to no takers, kept the insurance clock stopped (upon release, the clock starts counting down).

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Facepalm

Re: Wrong side of somebody

"proprietary formats"

We're boned with a proprietary format from Sony at work, someone seems to have purchased a Sony Tape streamer based solely on tape capacity. D'oh!

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

Hackers have been in a cyber war with Sony for at least a decade. Sony pissed off a LOT of people.

Sony supported the bringing down of Wikileaks. Pirate Bay, they support the actions of the RIAA and MPAA of suing people all over the world.

Sony supported SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, CISPA, NDAA, Patriot Act, Freedom Act, Citizens United, and countless other hostile actions against freedom.

Sony offensively attacked their customers that purchased their software by installing root kits on customers computers because Sony executives thought that it was okay for them to just take and accesss whatever they want on your computer.

Sony files lawsuits against hackers that used features on the Playstation, even though Sony advertised them.

I could go on all day. In short, Sony created their own problems, and they continue to propagate them. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

They changed their mind and released it.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

But Sony maliciously went after Geohots, the guy that was simply using and teaching the features that Sony advertised.

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Re: Wrong side of somebody

Lots of stupid paper pushers in management.

Tell them to leave the engineering to the engineers.

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It seems that Sony is trampled upon every which way they turn.

Unfortunately for them, much of their calamatous situation is much deserved.

Black audiennces throughout the USA and internationally should completely boycott viewing any Sony entertainnment, articularly through the exposure of a baack TV show female lead o star receiving a substantially lower salary compared to her white co-star.

The company has committed many other asinine business and anti-social practices, but one of the more telling facts of the completely stupid thinking and attidues of Sony is found in a technology use and licensing case.

The Sony Playstation 4 uses as it's software base the FreeBSD UNIX/Like Operating System (OS) software - similar in functional concept to Apple OS X, Microsoft Windows and GNU/Linux. Sony pays "Nada" - no fees or licensing cost for FreeBSD as its Free/Open Source Software (FOSS) but absolutely refuses to provide the APIs that allow FreeBSD based desktops OS to use Blu-Ray DVD player technology.

Sony uses the incredible FreeBSD, but won't let FreeBSD computers t use Blu-Ray DVd players.- -

How utterley selfish and totally greedy is that!!

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"Sony pays "Nada" - no fees or licensing cost for FreeBSD as its Free/Open Source Software (FOSS) but absolutely refuses to provide the APIs that allow FreeBSD based desktops OS to use Blu-Ray DVD player technology."

What you mean they used the software in a way the licence explicitly allows?? The monsters.

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Still...

It's interesting to see that after repeated DDOS attacks Sony still doesn't filter the traffic on its gaming networks by Playstation MAC addresses.

Is it a Playstation MAC? No? Drop the request... There are many people on these forums smarter than I am... tell me what I'm missing?

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SJG

Re: Still...

You're missing pretty much the entire way networks work ....

MAC codes are not visible outside the LAN. Similarly, even IP addresses do not stay constant even on an apparently fixed broadband connection as IP addresses are often re-allocated. Some 'broadband' cable services are also provided via a shared IP address which serves multiple physical locations. And don't get me started on any connections to the internet via mobile 3G or 4G, that's another Pandora's box entirely.

If it were that easy that everyone would be doing it already. DDOS attacks are notoriously difficult to stop - go try googling 'prevent DDOS attack' and you'll find lots of information about how corporate security and hackers are in a constant escalating battle.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Still...

Actually, MAC addresses are passed end-to-end in TCP/IP communications, at the link layer. So any layer 2/3 switch can do filtering by MAC address.

What it doesn't stop is a hacker spoofing a MAC address of a playstation and circumventing that filtering.

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Re: Still...

Always a pleasure to see that anonymous cowards have all of the answers but none of the knowledge.

MAC addresses of your gear never leave your LAN in IP headers. Your personal router can MAC filter devices on your network. Your ISP can MAC filter on the MAC of your gateway. Sony could MAC filter on fuck-all to stop DDOSes.

You can make the argument (and it's a good one) that ISPs should be ingress and egress filtering at borders to stop propogating packets with spoofed IPs, and if Sony really wanted to, they could whitelist by public IP addresses of playstation-equipped house holds only, though the latter has some chicken-and-egg issues (among other problems), and the former doesn't do crap if the upstream links get saturated, which is quite common these days.

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Re: Still...

Server guy are you?

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Re: Still...

Technically correct, but wrong in context. MAC addresses are never passed beyond the local subnet or LAN, depending on topology. And are never [read 'cannot be'] passed beyond a router.

The only way a MAC address can exit a LAN, or WAN router, is if the address is encapsulated in a data packet as part of the data being transmitted, together with the application specific data being transmitted. Which would be written as part of the application, ie not part of the data transmission protocols inherent in every OS, switch, router, etc.

When I my PC talks to the Internet, the MAC addres of the packet leaving the PC is that of the network card and the IP address is that of the PC. When it leaves the layer 3 switch between PC and router, the IP address is still that of the PC, but the MAC address is that of the switch port. When it leaves the router and ventures onto BTs network, the MAC address and IP address are that of the router WAN port.

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Re: Still...

I'm sorry, but that's not correct. The MAC address TYPICALLY stays in the subnet, bet there are ways to pass it, and IPv6 for example could include a MAC (real or spoofed) from start to finish.

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Anonymous Coward

Prison will do them good

Anyone who hacks or commits a DDoS should go to prison and pay treble damages. If they are in poverty their entire life for their criminal activity - that is just punishment.

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Re: Prison will do them good

Gramps, please!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Prison will do them good

What's the press equivalent? PSN has been working just fine since yesterday for me..

I sense media bending of truth...

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NAK Kim Dotcom

Sony do not have the grace to thank Kim Dotcom for his magnanimous intervention. Speaks volumes.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: NAK Kim Dotcom

Yup, evil Sony for not thanking Kim for paying morons to stop attacking their competitor but allow the attack to carry on on their infrastructure. The selfish bastards!

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Re: NAK Kim Dotcom

Given that Kim D only actually intervened on the XBox side, why should Sony thank him for anything?

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Anonymous Coward

Best game ever

I've really enjoyed the free playstation game, 'Connect', where you win if you manage to connect to PSN. I've not made it past the opening screen yet, but I'm gonna keep at it...

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most news TV are making it sound like a hacker has taken down PSN and Xbox when its a DDoS that has taken it down (and they also fail to say that very likely Kim D likey stopped it after offering them free mega accounts but i guess the public facing news site may have a gag order not to disclose this information)

there are lots of ways of mitigating attacks like this but who knows if they would do it as it cost money and bandwidth

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It would have been better if Kim had done nothing

Every techy and his playmonaut already knows that Kim rewarded DDOSers. Perhaps the DDOSers will wait till next year before doing it again and again. If you pay Danegeld all you get is more Danes.

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Owning the media

Spins some vinyl.. Yup that still works... even records that are over 50 year old!

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xboxPS4 Widows Strike

I think the hackers were hired by a group of angry girlfriends and wives.

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FAIL

Re: xboxPS4 Widows Strike

What? so they could spend some 'quality time' with little Harry and Johnny, trying to get them to stop crying on christmas morning because their shiney new toy does'nt work

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Anonymous Coward

So in fact....

GOP actually means Girlfriends, Others, Partners ?

AGAW is less catchy, so I am sticking with this theory, for now.

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