back to article Feds finger Norks in Sony hack, Obama asks: HOW DO YOU SOLVE A PROBLEM LIKE KOREA?

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has claimed to have found evidence linking North Korea with the hackers who ransacked Sony Pictures' servers and dumped gigabytes of sensitive data online. "As a result of our investigation, and in close collaboration with other US government departments and agencies, the FBI now has enough …

Mushroom

Take off

and nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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Fuckin 'A!

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Team Amurrica, please. Don't have enough with ISIS on the plate? Syria and sniffing around the borderlands of Russia not good enough for you? Pivot to Asia too slow? Economy going like a well-oiled locomotive?

Okay then.

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Cancelled cause it was crud.

Zero hedge are quoting Reuters who were quoting Elvis, no, sorry, some emails from the Sony hack saying the film was a bit of a stinker.

But it "stars" seth rogen so that was a given anyway.

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Unconvincing

Proof not prevarication, facts not finger-pointing. I have a healthy distrust of the political incumbents of any nation, but mostly (these days) the merkins - any response that starts with the basic premise "because we said so..." just doesn't cut it. Hard evidence, please.

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Re: Unconvincing

What evidence, specifically, would you like?

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Well, specifically the evidence they say they have that proves that NK did it would be a good start.

If they can't show that for whatever reason of National Security (yeah, like we don't know now that they're tapping everyone, please), then at least demonstrate that there is a clear IP trail between the hacked Sony server and a NK computer.

Because if they can't demonstrate that publicly, then they have no credibility to state that NK did it.

And if they are indeed convinced that NK did it, I find it laughable to believe that they actually fear NK terrorists on US soil. NK is certainly a threat to South Korea, but NK does not have the muscle to be a threat any farther than that.

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Norks, FBI, Sony...can't trust one of them as far as you can spit a hedgehog; and who gives a monkeys what the MPAA's opinion is?

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@moiety

". . . who gives a monkeys what the MPAA's opinion is?"

The sad answer is: US politicians.

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What was the threat from the hackers?

Worst they could probably do was chuck some empty pizza boxes or squeeze some zits in the general direction of the cinema goers.

One swift wedgie would make them skulk back to mum

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Big Brother

...

I was shocked at how quickly they jumped on the conclusion of it supposedly being NKorea. Bottom Line. I don't believe ANYTHING from this US Gov. anymore so forgive me if I'm strongly doubtful.

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Re: ...

I believed it probably was the norks until the FBI said it was. Seemed fairly straightforward and it is a film the norks have declared jihad against. But what if it's a framing attempt or some reason to slap some embargoes on the norks or something even more devious?

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Re: ...

As if there was not enough reasons to slap more embargoes on NK LOL

At first headlines it seemed a slam dunk it was NK but when you look at how it unfolded may not.

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Unhappy

(not) funny

I sure hope the intel people saying "trust us, it's NK" aren't the same ones who said "trust us, Iraq has WMDs"

I wish I could find that funny....

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Trollface

> the snoops have most likely compromised telcos and backbones in Asia to obtain this sort of evidence, assuming the FBI's allegations are true.

Which I think is illegal in most countries. It would certainly explain why they wouldn't want to divulge that.

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Cut off their internet: problem solved.

Cut all internet cables to N Korea. Problem solved.

Remember: When the movie was first announced, N Korea declared it an act of war and promised revenge.

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Re: Cut off their internet: problem solved.

Shouldn't be too tricky - by all reports the whole Nork government relies on an internet feed based on a couple of 64K dial-up lines, or at least something pretty puny. Although presumably the great chubby one with the lousy haircut has something better so that he can download western 'entertainment'.

Seriously though, does anyone know how NK gets the internet? Presumably there are some connections that go beyond the border? Who supplies them? Can they be switched off?

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Re: Cut off their internet: problem solved.

"Cut all internet cables to N Korea. Problem solved."

Not really; they also complain that they're being hacked by at least China and Iran. Also loads of other are 'stealing' their IP. Better to cut all the cables going into the US of A, and forget that the rest of the world doesn't exist.

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Re: Cut off their internet: problem solved.

read the UN letter - they didnt promise revenge - and they didnt declare it an act of war. They did suggest that it was supporting terrorism - which in a way it is - as no film has previously been made featuring the murder of a current head of state (KJI).

I believe Bruce in this one - its a stitch up in any event

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Re: Cut off their internet: problem solved.

Agreed. "Comedy featuring assassination" (and in graphic slo-mo, if that spoiler is anything to go by), is a contradiction in terms. Not that I think hideous bad taste should be followed by "righteous deeds" from the GOP (not the Republicans, this time), but it remains hideous bad taste.

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Re: Cut off their internet: problem solved.

no film has previously been made featuring the murder of a current head of state

I find that extremely difficult to believe.

Let's see: Hot Shots! Part Deux (1993) features the murder of Saddam Hussein (president of Iraq 1979-2003), and if memory serves so did the first installment. Death of a President (2003) describes the assassination of George W Bush during his presidency (2001-2009).

There - that's two (or three) counterexamples. And I bet there are a whole frickin' bunch of less-well-known ones. Do you really think that no art student has ever made a film about the killing of a sitting head of state? Why people feel the need to traffic in this sort of implausible certainty I do not understand. Just think about that claim, and how very improbable it is.

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Even if it is North Korea, what exactly are we going to do?

Certainly nobody wants to provoke a war on the Korean peninsula. Hell, the Norks sank a South Korean frigate and drowned 50-60 sailors a couple years back, and got away with that without a shot being fired.

And nobody really wants to withdraw whatever humanitarian aid is going to North Korea, because they don't want another potential famine there.

And you can't really declare a U.S. cyberwar against the Norks, because so little of their economy touches the internet anyway.

I suppose you could further tighten the sanctions on North Korea, but there's not much that is not hit by sanctions at this point.

So the biggest effect of this incident is that it further poisons the well on reducing sanctions if the North ever really did want to deal with the West. However, it's not like that well wasn't already pretty heavily poisoned before.

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Dumb question, but really why did we need that much evidence? The fact that the hackers never leaked The Interview was a bit of a hint. The fact that the (supposed) hackers demanded The Interview be canned was another. The fact that the NK government caused the hacks a righteous act was another - any sensible government trying to distance themselves would have issued a statement condemning the hack.

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"any sensible government ... would have ..."

I see your comprehension gap.

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Um, you do realize...

Before this security breach hit the news, the only people on the planet that cared, or mostly even knew it existed were Sony, NK, and the studio's investors.

Likely the attackers didn't know/care about it until the flit hit the Shan.

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Re: "any sensible government ... would have ..."

"I see your comprehension gap."

More like a basic logic gap.

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Black Helicopters

A black op is designed to be indistinguishable...

...from the real thing.

So without donning any tinfoil hats, if one government wants to pick a fight with another there is a real problem as to who started it.

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North Korean hackers are experts on motion picture studio management? Instead of threatening to nuke Sony and America with canned Stalinist bluster - as they usually do - they have the political insight to find and release exactly the right emails to make Sony manudjment look like utter wankers?

That doesn't look very Norkish to me. It looks more like something Team 4Chan would do.

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This just adds to the flotsam floating about.

1) Yep, it's strange that in their early contacts there was nothing about the movie until someone brought it up.

2) Re-used code and the IPs' found in it. Ok.. like those who do this sort of thing don't recycle code?

3) Now the GOP is saying that if the movie is never released, they'll stop releasing data. Hmm.... is it because they wanted money first, didn't get paid and decided to change direction? Or something else?

4) I note the popular press makes more fuss about the email and the "jokes" than about the released details of the worker bees. If that's all the press can get indignant about, it's very telling that we in the States and elsewhere are in deep trouble and probably don't realize it yet.

5) I wonder what the MPAA would say if suddenly new movies from all over were released via torrent? I'm betting there would be a call for thermonuclear war. Oh wait.... they're in Hollywood which is a nuke free zone.

More telling to me was the response George Clooney got from the industry about "standing up to this". He's right. No balls to stand up against it, just cave in and give them what they want. What's next, everyone has to stop eating bacon because it offends some lunatics?

And for those who think I'm changing my views on SONY, etc.. I still wouldn't go see this. If it were a good movie, yes. It's one thing to put in the theaters and people don't show up because it's bad. It's another thing to cave-in and not even offer it.

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Anonymous Coward

Freedom of expression

doesn't the U.S. Have laws about threatening the president even in jest. I remember there was some fuss about mark thomas jokingly offering a bounty on George Bush. One of his standup routines had a bit about his subsequent conversation with American legal advice and having to explain to the family why he couldn't take a trip to Colorado

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Re: Freedom of expression

"laws about threatening the president even in jest"

Not just that. About 20 years ago (that's way before 9/11) I was waiting for boarding at a smallish US airport. There were those metal detector frames and a big sign saying passengers had to pass through them, they would be refused boarding if they didn't, it was a federal regulation, and it was against the law to mock, parody, or make any jokes about federal laws and regulations (don't remember the exact wording - it was quite formal).

There was a bored cop standing next to me. I asked if he would arrest me if I told him a joke about going through metal detectors while boarding a plane. He looked puzzled - I pointed to the sign. "Hmmm, I guess I would have to arrest you, sir... Never thought of that..."

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Re: Freedom of expression

Yes, because White House Down, 24, The West Wing or any number of other action dramas never, ever depict the POTUS in any amount of danger, do they?

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Anonymous Coward

You are all wrong here

Just read between the lines. This is a blatant attempt by the government to usurp more snooping powers so that they can monitor every breath you take.

Simplz.

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Anonymous Coward

I get pissed off

when I see people making idiotic statements like: "Just like Iraq has WMD's".

These people all seem to forget the Iraq attack on Kurdistan where numerous different CB agents were used.

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Re: I get pissed off

Anon Coward - Yes, Iraq had illegal chemical weapons in the nineties and used them (just like the USA still has chemical weapons and has used them), they faced sanctions from the UN and agreed to destroy them. This destruction process was overseen by the UN and verified complete long before the second war in Iraq. Sure Iraq didn't really welcome having to give up these weapons, after all they had a belligerent neighbour and enemy, Iran, against whom the chemical weapons were an effective deterrent (sound familar?). Besides which, does any sovereign country like to be told what to do? The US flat out ignores international laws and gets away with it, so why should anyone else pay attention to them?

We all remember Colin Powell telling the UN that despite what the UN weapons inspectors said, that Iraq was still producing chemical weapons. After all they had pictures of mobile chemical weapons labs, only after the invasion they turned out to be ordinary lorries. They had 'intel' about chemical weapons plants, only they were just ordinary factories and warehouses. When you go looking for 'evidence' after you've already decided the guilty party you'll inevitably find some evidence, no matter how flimsy, which you'll bend to fit that theory.

Note I'm avoiding the term WMD, since Iraq has only ever had chemical weapons unlike some countries which also have nuclear and biological weapons - both of which are far, far more capable of "mass destruction" and which are also illegal.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I get pissed off

Exactly.

The Russians have recently cottoned on to the fact that when the holders of the moral high ground have no regard for international law abroad, or US national law at home (the Constitution), they may as well just join in. The message, loud and clear, is that certain countries, like certain politicians, are above the law.

It doesn't bode well if China eventually decides the same and just does what ever it likes.

Might != right.

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Re: I get pissed off

the Iraq attack on Kurdistan where numerous different CB agents were used.

Which was years before the second gulf war and sanctions and UN inspectors..

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WMD's was NOT about chemical, it was about "nucular"

The only (official) reason the US invaded Irak was the search for nuclear weapons. That was the smoking gun and the reason Irak was branded 3rd most powerful army of the world (hyurk, hyurk).

Time and time again Bush and croonies declared that Irak was working on/already had ICBMs and they were pointed toward US targets. The threat was supposed to be real and present.

Nobody ever mentioned chemical weapons. Nobody ever denied that Irak had them, because there was ample proof (from courageous journalists doing their job - those were the days) they did, but that was NOT the reason to go to war. Twice.

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Re: I get pissed off

Your're not really not serious are you? America has been fighting a war for over a decade because of intel about WMD, which never existed. We went to war over bullshit info and in the process have killed thousands of people, created the most unstable region of the world and created an economy which further divides rich and poor.

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Re: WMD's was NOT about chemical, it was about "nucular"

Pascal you're confusing Iraq and Iran. No-one ever said Iraq had nuclear weapons.

Even the 'intel' suggesting that Iran has nuclear weapons is shaky, it's never been substantiated. Iran does have power generating reactors, and they have enriched uranium for use in those reactors but beyond that no-one has ever produced solid evidence that they are gathering weapons grade plutonium for a bomb. They are also a long way off creating ICBMs, long range rockets yes, ICBMs no.

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Re: WMD's was NOT about chemical, it was about "nucular"

Let me clarify that last post, the US administration did not present evidence, nor to my recollection did they even mention, the existence of nuclear weapons in Iraq in the months before the second invasion by allied forces.

Iraq did have a nuclear weapons program at the time of the first gulf war, although they never had a working device. Their nuclear facilities, including their civilian power plants were destroyed by the allies and Israel during that period which ended their nuclear program.

The possibility of nuclear weapons was not the reason for the first war either, that was the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. If the Americans had any interest in finding nuclear weapons they wouldn't have withdrawn from Iraq after just one hundred hours. They drove the Iraqis from Kuwait, pursued the withdrawing Iraqi army briefly across the border and then packed off home again. They didn't spend any time searching for WMDs.

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Anonymous Coward

What about Corporate IT?

Total BS to point the finger elsewhere. The buck stops at the CIO/CISO and the complete lack progress to date to mitigate against their past exposures and protect against future exposures.

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Re: What about Corporate IT?

In the end, you're right. But do you honestly think that things will change? Every company feels that IT and especially IT Security is a cost center. They also feel that "that can't happen to us". Well BS... if we look at who's already been hit with some massive intrusions/cracks and nothing has changed elsewhere, I seriously don't believe this is the last. It really only might be the beginning....

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Black Helicopters

"Based on that statement it seems clear that the MPAA will be pressing ahead with its plans, revealed in leaked Sony emails, to rework the global domain-name system into something the studios can use to keep pirated material from becoming easily accessible."

It was a bit extreme of them, though, to attack Sony in this way and get the finger of blame pointed at the Norks, just so they can try to justify that.

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Anonymous Coward

It was actually ISIS

but Obama knew that accusing them was not credible since they, and the Russians, have had their quota of blame for the week ;)

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Go

First Round

Glorious Leader: 1

USA: 0

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What if it was South Korea?

It wouldn't be the first case of this sort "attack an ally and make it look like your sworn enemy did it", or even the thousandth case of it.

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Still want to know why companies don't give a damn about security and insist on using a web to hold their data. Ever look at a web? It's a bunch of holes held together with a little bit of string.

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Mushroom

Release the film, just not in cinemas...

I reckon that a proportionate response (or do I mean an amusing revenge? - I get so confused...) would be to dub The Interview into Korean and then have the USAF broadcast it across North Korea using their fleet of C-130 Commando Solo aircraft. That'll learn 'em!

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