But against the backdrop of your British readership...
... who live in a controlled mostly gun-free society, how important is it then?
3D printed guns: This time it's for real! Oh, wait – no, still crap
So, hype notwithstanding, it's now pretty well acknowledged that you cannot in fact make a useful gun out of plastic in a consumer-grade 3D printer. But wait! Hold everything! There's a new "Bullet That Could Make 3-D Printed Guns Practical Deadly Weapons"! Holy Cow! Oh dear. The ".314 Atlas" from designer Michael Crumling …
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Thursday 6th November 2014 12:33 GMT Tom Wood
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
It's not. If you had the right tools and steel, you could make a metal gun, as the article says.
The whole "aarhgh this is terrible" angle to the concept of a 3D-printed plastic gun was that it wouldn't show up on x-rays at airports and suchlike, whereas a metal gun would. But if it was plasticy enough not to show up on an x-ray, it would also be useless as a gun.
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Thursday 6th November 2014 12:55 GMT Thomas Whipp
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
even making a basic black powder isn't that hard (although it is potentially quite dangerous especially if you start wanting to grind it for a faster burn).
That said, even in the UK if you really want to buy a gun outside of the normal checks I suspect its not ridiculously hard - just very illegal.
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Thursday 6th November 2014 16:13 GMT Robert Helpmann??
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
Buying a WW2 era souvenir might not be ridiculously difficult but getting the ammunition will be.
Hardly, at least not in the US. I bought a .303 over 20 years ago and had no problem then. It has only gotten easier, if more expensive since that time. I have looked into other vintage weapons as well and have seen pretty much the same.
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Friday 7th November 2014 21:11 GMT Ian Michael Gumby
@AC Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
"Buying a WW2 era souvenir might not be ridiculously difficult but getting the ammunition will be."
You can tell that you're a Brit and don't know much about guns or ammo.
Short answer, it depends on which gun you want to collect as a souvenir.
A Browning BAR, depending on condition, will set you back $40K or more, plus you need to be able to own a Class III weapon. The ammo? .30-06 Same today as it was back in the 20s and is plentiful.
If you want to purchase a Tommy Gun? Same thing. .45 ACP is available everywhere. Class III expensive to own.
1911? Vintage is pretty cheap and again .45ACP.
Of course if you're looking at a Japanese Rifle, I guess ammo would be hard to find, however you can always trim down your own brass and make your own lead bullets.
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Thursday 6th November 2014 18:22 GMT Tom 13
Re: But if it was plasticy enough not to show up on an x-ray, it would also be useless as a gun.
For purposes of the current iterations of 3D printers, what you claim is true, but it is not universally true. When Taurus first introduced one of their lines of polymer pistols there was considerable concern that because so much of it was plastic, it would not be detected by the then standard detectors. I recall a number of solutions being proposed including impregnating the polymer with iron so it would show up. Ultimately Taurus made the barrel portion from steel and that calmed down law enforcement. What I don't recall if whether the decision to use steel was completely political or to what degree it made the engineering simpler.
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Thursday 6th November 2014 17:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
"Guns only do one thing - hurt people and property - so the less we have of them in general circulation the better."
Guns do absolutely nothing by themselves, except rust.
When a person holds one, the gun multiplies the striking power of that person. Note that people can still strike and cause harm without the gun. Also note that while gunless people vary quite a lot in striking power, those with guns are much more equal, hence the term "equalizer."
So, when the crazed rapist breaks into your daughter's house, would it be better for him to find her cowering in a closet with a breadknife, or standing with a nice heavy shooting-iron pointed at his braincase?
And please don't attempt to argue about statistics, as they don't seem to show clear correlations between gun ownership and either murder or violent crime:
http://www.psmag.com/culture/gun-ownership-neither-increases-nor-decreases-crime-rate-55473/
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Thursday 6th November 2014 17:48 GMT Midnight
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
And please don't attempt to argue about statistics, as they don't seem to show clear correlations between gun ownership and either murder or violent crime:
But strangely, they do show clear connections between gun ownership and accidental shootings.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182
So, when your daughter's flatmate comes home late at night and the noise wakes her up, would it be better for him to find her cowering in a closet with a breadknife, or standing with a nice heavy shooting-iron pointed at his braincase?
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Friday 7th November 2014 14:38 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
So, when your daughter's flatmate comes home late at night and the noise wakes her up, would it be better for him to find her cowering in a closet with a breadknife, or standing with a nice heavy shooting-iron pointed at his braincase?
It should be irrelevant because:
a) he shouldn't be going into her bedroom.
b) he shouldn't be wearing a ski-mask while doing so.
c) upon seeing her pointing a cannon at his noggin, his reaction should be to freeze or retreat while identifying himself, thus eliminating the need for her to pull the trigger.
Of course, in the case of my granny, there are no flat mates - grandad died decades ago, so anyone breaking into her home after dark should rightly be considered fair game. A bread knife won't help a 90 year old woman defend herself against a 16 stone steroid muching gym bunny hopped up on crack. Nor will karate classes. A small hand gun would do the job nicely.
Alternatively, and I know it's a radical concept, we could just keep the scrote locked up after his 2nd burglary/assault/rape, rather than foist them once again upon an unwilling and largely defenceless community.
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Tuesday 11th November 2014 03:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
"So, when the rapist breaks into your daughter's house, who is he going to shoot? The person cowering in the closet, or the person holding the gun?"
So your attitude is that your daughter should meekly submit to the rapist in the hope of being spared after being violently raped, rather than antagonize him by daring to show resistance when he appears?
If that is you, then the next time the cattle cars roll you will fit right in.
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Friday 7th November 2014 17:40 GMT ElReg!comments!Pierre
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
So you prefer only the government have all the guns.
That horse you're flogging? I don't think it's just resting...
Your 9mm handgun is not going to help you much against tanks, "surgical" drones or artillery. Just so that you know.
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Friday 7th November 2014 19:03 GMT HKmk23
Re: Tanks
But a lemonade bottle full of petrol with a piece of cloth for a wick will do nicely......see there is no solution. No gun ever killed anyone deliberately......only the humans who pull the trigger....so if you live in a decent law abiding society....and they do exist......you can legally own and shoot whatever guns you like to as I do.
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Monday 10th November 2014 12:14 GMT AndrewDH
Re: Tanks
Modern Tanks have fire suppression specifically to counter the opponent with a bottle full of flammable liquid.
They also hunt in groups allowing each tank to observe the perimeter around the other tanks in the group making it hard to approach close enough to throw your bottle without being stopped.
Egyptian protesters used petrol bombs to some effect against their own military but they didn't destroy the tanks but forced them back and its important to note that the Egyptian army did not have orders to use maximum force, if they had the demonstrators would never have got close the Tanks in the first place.
So no having population armed with small arms isn't going to stop the US military imposing whatever the conspiracy theorists think the Federal Government want to impose.
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Friday 7th November 2014 15:44 GMT JEDIDIAH
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
I'm fine with that as long as the cops are disarmed too.
They are also civilians with insufficient training or discipline to be trusted with "military weapons" if the average citizen isn't. If anything, the cops need to be de-militarized first.
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Thursday 6th November 2014 14:47 GMT fajensen
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
The Brits invented the STEN-gun. They dropped the drawings to occupied territory for "anyone" with basic machine tools to make up these guns, which actually worked when fired in anger, on real Germans.
Those drawings are still around, probably. If all are lost, they can be worked out again. The Sten was designed to be cheap and easy to make from whatever was lying around in the scrap bin.
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Thursday 6th November 2014 15:08 GMT Charles 9
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
And Americans liked the idea as well. They adopted a simple design of their own that became the M-3 SMG. Their main justifications were price and mass productions. At 1/10 the price of a Tommy Gun and easily made at stamping plants, it gave the troops a simple but useful arm for urban and forest combat. Later on, IIRC, they took the idea even further with a bare-bones pistol design: the original Liberator. It wasn't pretty or pretty accurate, but they were dead simple to use to the point each one came with pictorial instructions and can be dropped by the bushel to your favorite insurgent group out to topple America's Enemy of the Week.
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Friday 7th November 2014 21:00 GMT Ian Michael Gumby
@Charles 9 Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
The M-3 SMG aka 'grease gun' was meant as a machine gun of last resort.
It was issued to Soldiers in the army who didn't carry a rifle as their primary weapon. E.g tank crews.
Not very accurate, but something you could use if you had to bail from your tank. Cost to manufacture was around ~$1.25 - $1.50 (In 1940's dollars)
There is really no comparison between the grease gun and the Tommy Gun.
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Friday 7th November 2014 09:52 GMT 2Fat2Bald
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
Totally unimportant. If you want a gun, most people can have one (at least a shotgun) if they'll just do some admin and purchase a gun cabinet. But the Brits just generally don't seem to be that interested in owning a gun.
To be honest, interest in Gun Ownership in the UK took something of a hit after Hungerford. And then again after Dunblane. Etc.
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Friday 7th November 2014 13:58 GMT Catweazle666
Re: But against the backdrop of your British readership...
Yet again the myth that we British have no guns.
Out in the British countryside we have plenty of legally held guns, mostly shotguns but quite a few rifles from .22 rat guns to scoped 30.06 Remingtons.
On top of that there are the historical re-enactment societies with any number of highly serviceable weapons from muskets to Springfield rifles, and there are plenty of antique handguns which are quite legal if the ammunition is *theoretically* unavailable, such as Broomhandle Mausers and Navy Colts.
As for the illegally held stuff, there are any amount, freely available if you know where to look.
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Thursday 6th November 2014 19:04 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: 3D barrel with pretend rifling
In the UK a British Citizen (who isn't prevented by laws affecting criminals) is able to legally buy blanks in .22 short, .22LR, 8mm, 9mm, .303, 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 12 Gauge (Shotgun) and a few other sizes, which are all available without a licence.
The powder grain size is all wrong if you want to turn them into live rounds.
Perversely, you cannot buy primers without a licence - unless they are already in blanks....
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Friday 7th November 2014 05:12 GMT Eddy Ito
Re: 3D barrel with pretend rifling
What he has made is a tiny smoothbore muzzle loading cannon that has its lock work provided by another piece of equipment. The only difference between what he has made and these little fellas is that he has machined a standard primer pocket into the back end which necessitates a striker and 3D printed a cradle to temporarily hold both the striker and cannon.
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Thursday 6th November 2014 18:32 GMT Tom 13
Re: Show me somebody excited about 3D printing
Just because it isn't currently useful for making guns and seems to us to be favored by geeks who still live in their mother's basement to make minatures for their war gaming clubs doesn't mean there aren't areas that exciting and useful. For instance:
http://3dprintingindustry.com/medical/
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Thursday 6th November 2014 21:14 GMT wikkity
Re: How it's Made
> Show me somebody excited about 3D printing
Ok, I am. I've worked in a (car) factory, many years ago, I'm also reasonably familair with how many other things are made. Are you suggesting that once someone knows how something is made the urge to make stuff disappears. Maybe all those here who like tinkering away with a soldering iron should stop as fab labs can print straight to silicon?
I can assume that that you have never at to fork out £25+ for a simple bit of molded plastic that your £1000 power tool won't work without? Assuming the part is still stocked that is, even though spare part availablity is a big factor when buying expensive tools there always seems to be a few bespoke parts that are hard to find 10 years down the line.
Anyway, a factory is well out of my price range to make stuff I want, so in the mean time while I'm waiting for 32 printing quality to improve/price to come down I'll continue to persue my hobbies by making things in a time consuming manner or using saved searches on ebay for spare parts as I do now.
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Friday 7th November 2014 14:03 GMT Jim 59
Re: How it's Made
Are you suggesting that once someone knows how something is made the urge to make stuff disappears
Obviously not. I think 3D printing will find a valid place in society sooner or later. But the conceptual limitations will make that place a small one. It is the job of strategy boutiques to de-emphasize these limitations in investors' minds, in order to secure more investment. Fair play to them. But I am not a strategist, I am an engineer. And I will not be investing at this point.
Maybe all those here who like tinkering away with a soldering iron should stop as fab labs can print straight to silicon?
Tinkering and hobbyism is great. Any hobbyist should buy and enjoy 3D printers to the fullest extent possible. For recreation and discovery. But not for business. Okay let me rephrase: 3D printing at home might be exciting, in the same way as building a cat's-whisker radio is. I was delighted with my cat's-whisker, and all my bread-board creations. But I never went around saying it is better than an iPhone and people should invest in my cat's whisker company.
I can assume that that you have never at to fork out £25+ for a simple bit of molded plastic that your £1000 power tool won't work without? Assuming the part is still stocked that is, even though spare part availablity is a big factor when buying expensive tools there always seems to be a few bespoke parts that are hard to find 10 years down the line.
I have just forked out £22 for three plastic gazebo joints that prob. cost 10p each to manufacture. 3D printing would have had the tolerance for this, and finish doesn't matter. But it would probably not have had the strength or material properties. And as my gazebo is 10 years old, I was lucky to get the part, let alone a 3D printing data for it. And if I got the data or copied it illegally from another part, why should the owner give me that for free ? The design is valuable property, rightly protected by law. A gazebo joint might be a small, humble part, but somebody, somewhere put alot of engineering thought into it and somebody owns the design.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
