back to article I've got a new Linux box, how does it work... WOAH, only asking :-/

You're an average Joe. You have a Windows computer you're fairly fed up with, for whatever reason. So you decide to try out Linux. Yet, naturally, you're a bit confused about how it all works so you take to the support forums. What do you think happens next? Firing up passions on both sides of the great Linux/non-Linux users' …

Anonymous Coward

Linux: Too hard for Windows users.

12
35
Bronze badge
Gimp

Linux: Too hard for Windows users.

Remind me again what Linux's share of the desktop market is?

Oh yeah 1.7%.

It's not that linux is hard to grasp. Normal people just can't be arsed dealing with the likes of you.

47
14
Silver badge
Windows

"Linux: Too hard for Windows users."

Don't worry. We're dumbing it down for the riff-raff. Wayland. Systemd.

14
1
Anonymous Coward

I don't use either, but why do Windows users always boast "market share" when bickering about Linux?

It must be a herd thing...

19
4
Silver badge
Coat

Or is it -

A GNU Herd thing?

8
2
Bronze badge
Gimp

Fanboys, Fanboys All Around

It must be a herd thing...

Just like linux fanboys posting as "Anonymous Coward"?

Although I'm beginning to think there's just one linux fanboy posting under multiple AC identities to give an illusion of mass linux adoption.

8
20
Anonymous Coward

Re: Fanboys, Fanboys All Around

ok the game's up, all the AC posts are from me.

18
0
Silver badge

Linux users asking on 4chan: Not gonna end well.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Yes, but curiously I have observed it's almost obligatory to reference Android's huge market share in comparison to Windows Phone to prove the inferiority of the latter.

17
2

Not at all. I hated Windows Phone long before I had even used Android.

16
5
Silver badge
Windows

Desktop?

Seriously, you are crowing about desktop figures?

The Linux kernel runs billions of phones, and the Linux kernel with the GNU userland runs a huge range of devices from your router, HDTV up to and including supercomputing clusters, not to mention Google ChromeOS and backend, F**book, Ebay, Twitter &et Al.

And you worry about *desktops*? You are as bad as that boy Lennart.

PS: running Trisquel Linux on an X60. Cheaper than a Chromebook. Haven't had to use a command line yet except for R. The forum is civil and welcoming to newcomers but being a fully libre distribution without proprietary drivers or blobs, OP would almost certainly have to use a USB wifi dongle (Netgear WG111v3 or similar) to be able to connect.

P2S: If Shuttleworth ever pops the Ubuntuphone out I'll be in the queue. I mean the one you can dock and it switches userland so you can do your Office work on a full sized monitor and keyboard. One device. Many uses. See the Rob Pike Setup interview...

http://rob.pike.usesthis.com/

13
7

"It must be a herd thing..."

That's the most ridiculous thing I've herd you say all day!

And I'm hard of herring too (damn penguins ate them all).

8
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Fanboys, Fanboys All Around

>ok the game's up, all the AC posts are from me.

No they're from me.

2
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Fanboys, Fanboys All Around

No, I'm Sparticus

5
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Fanboys, Fanboys All Around

No they're from me.

I don't remember typing that, who's logged on as me??

3
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Fanboys, Fanboys All Around

And so is my wife!

2
0
Bronze badge
Gimp

Re: Desktop?

Seriously, you are crowing about desktop figures?

The Linux kernel runs billions of phones...

Ha ha ha. The old linux = android cliche.

Don't forget that Microsoft gets a royalty payment from every Android phone and tablet.

How does it feel to know you're making Microsoft richer?

6
9
Facepalm

Re: Desktop?

"How does it feel to know you're making Microsoft richer?"

I makes me feel sad that the US legal system is so broken that such things can be allowed to happen over there.

For the record I'm not a Windows hater either, just a rather disgruntled user of many operating systems.

10
4
h3

Linux is bad for everybody the way it currently is.

Lennard Pottering is the main problem.

The whole UNIX design meant after a bit of learning everything was obvious.

Everything he introduces is totally different to anything else and then forced as a dependency by everyone else. (And breaks everything Redhat has no interest in).

The BSD's and Debian are ok for a server. But all the gui stuff contains so many linux features which end up having to copied by the BSD's (Which had a clean understandable consistent design up until not too long ago).

Solaris 11 (When it was Opensolaris) was good as a desktop but £3000 a year for security updates for a normal user is not practical.

Funnily enough modern versions of Powershell are brilliant / consistent and logical after a small amount of learning. Just like Linux / UNIX used to be

6
3
Devil

Ha!

Windows is too hard for Windows users.

16
2
Thumb Up

Re: Desktop?

How does it feel to know you're making Microsoft richer?

I'm content in paying MS in order not use their stuff, than to pay them nothing yet endure their stuff.

13
3
Anonymous Coward

Don't sweat it man,all these comments, the point of the article that is being referring to, and the point I was making (Hey! I actually got one of my post brought up this article!!!) is simply that there are some assholes in the Linux community. Not all, but a few. After being a "commentard" on the Register for years, reading the comments of Linux users, and having experienced some of these people in real life, I, and many others, have come to the simple conclusion that these people have issues. I'm not a shrink so what those issues are is beyond me, but they have names, and we all know what those names are.

Here's the thing, this is just a site, their comments or the posters cant hurt anyone, not really, I rarely if ever go back and see what others respond. They get pissed, respond, give negative points (Like that really does anything.......seriously, if I get -200 downvotes, what DOES it matter?) but the point is, if you go outside, the weather is beautiful, wish everyone was here. No haters, no commenter.

Just ignore them, go outside, enjoy life. that's the worse response anyone can give them is to keep ignoring them, they are doing nothing but hurting the Linux development altogether. I've gotten by without Linux for this long, so as everyone else, that wont be changing.

9
3
Facepalm

Without realising it, you're behaving in the same manner that you're describing.

3
2
Anonymous Coward

"why do Windows users always boast "market share" when bickering about Linux?"

It's usually a collision between a geek demographic that thinks everyone who uses Windows is stupid; and those who believe only some of them are, therefore 'market share reflects an obvious truth'.

On the more general subject at hand: I used to give support on a Linux forum for Windows users who wanted to try Linux as a dual boot. Unfortunately you get drowned out by the Linux zealots who insist on using Grub to boot Windows, i.e. overwriting the Windows bootloader, though doing so is where most of the dual-boot problems originate. Their position is either that problems overwriting the Windows bootloader with the Linux is a problem with Windows, or that they're not listening la la la la la, and I suspect that if the only way they could stop you using the Windows one was to burn your house down, they'd go for it. The majority on Linux forums only use Linux and defer to the vocal minority of Asperger's-type Linux experts, so you simply cannot impart useful information if it isn't 'Linux first'. Meanwhile there is some very, very helpful stuff there, for instance on how to get ALL your hardware working, which is why I for one continue to dual-boot both - fixes developed by individuals, while the drivers and instructions supplied by both the manufacturers AND within the distro DON'T work. I have been running Mint for years now, initially thanks ENTIRELY to a few individuals who are either in it to help or not to hinder. Today I can get trouble-free Nvidia drivers within moments of a fresh install via software update - though I still have to use the script acquired via Github to get the Realtek WiFi to work effectively.

You do not get anything like such vocally anti-Linux voices on Windows forums as you get anti-Windows on the Linux - but this is justified by the Linux users because 'they're right'; their reason d'etre may be to sit in front of a keyboard and monitor, coding and using CLI, but they express it as politics, just like the intolerants in any other religious demographic. If it ain't open source they'll shout you down.

10
4

Systemd is "dumbing things down"?!

Well, thank you very fucking much, because now I know that my problems wrangling that miserable beast must be due to dementia setting in.

Off to cry in a corner then call a nursing home...

2
1

Windows is too hard for Windows users

I recently installed a new SSD on this Linux Mint / Win7 dual boot PC as the old SSD had some hardware issue. Prices being what they are, it is twice the size of its predecessor. "Hmm, I could fit Windows on this one as well as Linux Mint's root partition. It's not as if I used most of the old one, so I can give Windows about 200Gb."

Copying Mint onto it was no problem: use partclone to copy the old data onto the spinning rust disk, swap SSDs, copy the data onto the new one, works.

Getting Windows onto it was... a problem. I've followed about three different 'here's how to do it' recipes, involving the rescue disk / command line / assorted third party utilities. None of them worked, possibly because I dared to do the Linux partition first and Windows thinks it is the first and the last OS on anything. Windows' retention of the braindead drive letter system doesn't help.

I've ended up thinking "How often do I boot into Windows anyway?" ("Hardly ever".) So I will be using the extra space as cache for various things.

12
1
Silver badge
Windows

Re: Linux is bad for everybody the way it currently is.

"The BSD's and Debian are ok for a server. But all the gui stuff contains so many linux features which end up having to copied by the BSD's (Which had a clean understandable consistent design up until not too long ago)."

Stock OpenBSD install with cwm set as window manager in the .xinitrc and netsurf(*) as a graphical Web browser on my testing laptop seems pretty clean to me. LaTeX and an editor for document production. mpg123 for music while I work.

Retro GUI could be in this autumn. Read about the tilde club as an example.

(*)Xombero for javascript use, needed to deal with those redirect based wifi access points you see a lot of.

2
0
Bronze badge
Gimp

Re: Desktop?

I makes me feel sad that the US legal system is so broken that such things can be allowed to happen over there.

I know the concept of paying somebody for using their intellectual property in your product may be alien to linux freetards, but that doesn't mean the system's broken.

Not everything in life is free - that goes equally for "free" beer or "free" speech.

3
9
Silver badge
Windows

Re: Desktop?

@Ross K

"How does it feel to know you're making Microsoft richer?"

Well, since you ask, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. A court case occured, arguments were presented, a settlement was reached. As I believe in the sovreign right of countries to govern themselves and in the rule of law, and as I generally support the market economy (with bits of regulation as needed) all this is fine by me.

I do find the way the US legal system works a bit odd, but then I imagine people who are used to America would find aspects of Britain a bit strange in just the same way.

I also like the fact that Red Hat is a $1+ billion turnover corporation making reasonable profits from selling services off the back of GPL licenced software. I really hope Canonical gets into some kind of actual profit soon. I believe that SLES does make money as well and that makes me glad. Good quality jobs, economic activity, competition.

Yes, I do have residual concerns over Red Hat's tidal pull on the open source world, and I do wish one of their senior people would sit Mr Poettering down and have a good long chat(*) about the need to stabilise the APIs and affordances for the software associated with systemd so the various upstream projects have a chance to catch up. But, hey, it all works and will do so for some decades, and, for edge cases and people who want to be different, there are viable alternatives.

Ace isn't it?

(*) British for 'sort him out'

2
0
Facepalm

Re: Desktop?

What a load of studied gibberish.

Is there an Authorized Version?

0
0

Re: Windows is too hard for Windows users

If you are going to swap disks anyhow, clone directly to the SSD. Then swap the disks. Worked just fine for me. Add in drive trays, and the dual boot problem goes away -- just swap in a Linux disk instead. And if your old SSD still is functional, you can swap it in when you intend to take risks. Best reason ever for using a tower.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

Linux support is apparently a bit lacking. Perhaps it's worth what you paid for it?

What do you expect when you install a free homemade hobby operating system on a business computer???

But seriously, say what you want about Microsoft, but the advantage is that you can move between (non-IT) jobs and still know how to work with Windows and MS Office. That consistent user interface, and working right out of the box, is what made Microsoft billions.

Linux, by definition, will never have more than 5% market share in business desktops because of all the different distros.

3
6
Anonymous Coward

Re: Windows is too hard for Windows users

What do you use to clone it?

dd if=/dev/sda or Acronis true Image, Norton Ghost?

0
0

Cloning

The issue with cloning direct is that the Windows partitions were on spinning rust along with the Linux /home partition and none of the free / bundled Windows and live Linux CD-based utilities I tried could cope with 'clone the disk.. but only these two partitions' to something smaller.

If I can be arsed, I may do a new Windows install to the new SSD, but now Windows is just there for one game and installing BIOS/firmware updates. And I can play the game on my daughter's PC which may not have a SSD but has a sound card that has Windows 7 drivers, unlike mine. (Obviously, it works in Linux.)

The old SSD has gone back to Amazon (who, to my surprise came straight out with a full refund, even though I'd bought it about eleven months ago).

0
0

Cloning 2

For backing up / restoring the Linux root partition, partclone.

For trying to do the Windows loader and main partitions, Clonezilla (a UI for partclone on a live CD, from what I can see), something that was bundled with the SSD and, erm, can't remember.

My copies of Norton Ghost and True Image are too old to be able to do Win 7. The idea of paying more money to people who keep changing image file formats to enforce upgrades doesn't appeal.

1
0
Silver badge

Unity. As in all other fields, Linux had a painful pseudo-touchy-hybrid interface before Microsoft had theirs ready for Windows 8.

0
0

Re: Fanboys, Fanboys All Around

>And so is my wife!

Just how many of me are there on this site? And what sex and gender are we (makes a difference in my Halloween costume)?

0
0

And all the blowhards shout 'why dont you use linux???'

the comments on here is a good reason why!!!! >:(

The reason why windows, apple, android sells, is it has ONE design, ONE desktop type, ONE simple thing to install...

and how many different designs, desktops, install types does linux have, that you need to make a decision about????

0
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Desktop?

"I makes me feel sad that the US legal system is so broken that such things can be allowed to happen over there."

They have won judgements elsewhere too (Germany for instance). They have over 40,000 patents of which several hundred apparently apply to Android.

0
1

It's gotten better.

My first dealings with Linux was back in the Redhat 3.0, and while I had an extensive computer background from Spectrum 48K via C64, Amiga, Warp and Win 3.11 - Win95, but I was completely lost when a cleaner turned off the computer by pulling the plug from the wall, resulting in disk corruption and making it impossible to log on. I made the fatal error of asking for help on a Linux forum. Counterstrike is civil compared to the beating I got for being such a f@g n00b.

(Eventually I got a Linux-owning friend to explain to me that you fix problems like this by logging in from a remote computer, su root and issuing the command e3fsck -f -b 8193 /dev/hda1. How's that for intuitive?)

Today you rarely have to ask anyone when things go south, there's pretty much always a detailed walk-through somewhere on the web. The web is the real manual, the real man page, for Linux.

18
0
Silver badge

Re: It's gotten better.

I never really experienced that (aside from seeing the odd user who seemed to go looking for posts to flame on), or perhaps I did and just failed to notice it.

5
0
Silver badge

Re: It's gotten better.

I read the Linux forums and the various Linux 'howto' wikis, after a quick Google search for the topic. Then I read more forums to get a consensus opinion. After that I can clone my hard drive and do reckless things if I want to. It's worked nicely for me so far but I'd venture to say that the average member of the public wouldn't be able to do that or would get fed up very quicjkly. I remember I did a lot of swearing in the first month but after that I was fine and happy.

5
0
Silver badge
Windows

Re: It's gotten better.

"(Eventually I got a Linux-owning friend to explain to me that you fix problems like this by logging in from a remote computer, su root and issuing the command e3fsck -f -b 8193 /dev/hda1. How's that for intuitive?)"

These days for most distros you just boot from a live CD and work through a repair menu. Worst case 'touch /forcefsck' from the single user mode prompt.

But I do take the point...

10
1

Re: It's gotten better.

Same type of problem in Windows (Yes Windows goes tits up too) means a reinstall. You can repair Linux problems far easier then you can the equivalent Windows problem.

The biggest problem is doing the initial install. Since you may need to find drivers or configurations for your particular hardware. Note also you got the same problem on a OEM Windows install. People don't see this because 99% get Windows pre-installed or an image disk from their computer maker.

I help out on the openSUSE forum and in the fast number of cases everyone is treated with respect. The exception is when some one simply does not want help and simply wants to vent. Note respect goes both ways.

13
2

Re: It's gotten better.

I was fortunate enough to find openSUSE early in my Linux life, and I've always found the forums to be lovely. If you want to see real Linux arseholes, visit Phoronix and mention how great BSD or Mir is...

6
0

Re: It's gotten better.

I actually found Linux much easier to use than Windows when I switched over a couple of years ago. I was gob-smacked of the lack of fuss, compared to almost two decades of installing Windows. Those who think it's too hard just haven't tried it (or did 10 years ago), or already have difficulties with computers.

As for developing on, it blows Windows out the water!

Here's another anecdote; My daughter, she's 8, and was able to install minecraft and download and extract add-ons, change the background, etc. without assistance. Where as half an hour of her on Windows, and the homepage + search would be hijacked, ask toolbar installed, and pop-ups saying my registry needs cleaning.

13
3

Re: It's gotten better.

I've often found Linux easier to install than Windows. The former has only ever once failed to see my hard disks whereas the latter wants a driver disk. Windows has been installed by the "builder" and so it works but try to repair the booting and no disks found. Fortunately GRUB can boot Windows for me so all is not lost.

6
1
Silver badge

Re: It's gotten better.

"Same type of problem in Windows (Yes Windows goes tits up too) means a reinstall. You can repair Linux problems far easier then you can the equivalent Windows problem."

Nope. Seen that problem on numerous XP boxes in years gone by. Pop Hirren's BootCD into the caddy, start the computer on that. Load up the DOS-with-NTFS and run chkdsk (it's all on the CD distro). Problem is sorted in about five minutes. Dunno why the hell Windows couldn't do that for itself instead of blue-screening. Maybe later versions can?

I gave Ubuntu 9 (10? the brown/orange one) a whirl a few years ago, but it steadfastly refused to acknowledge my printer/scanner existed. I found a document on the web explaining how to resolve this. It ran to nearly twelve pages (printed from the browser) and half of that was command-line gibberish that made no sense to me (so yay for the chance to mistype something). I went back to Windows... I'm not really bothered what OS I use, so long as it does what I want it to do without starting an argument first.

5
7
Anonymous Coward

Re: It's gotten better.

refused to acknowledge my printer/scanner existed.

...

It ran to nearly twelve pages (printed from the browser)

So it fixed itself, then? Excellent!

<rubs chin>

7
1
Silver badge

Re: It's gotten better.

It get even worse if you want to network boot or install windows.

I find windows just too hard to be bothered with now - if nothing else, licensing is just a pain. We have three laptops, two desktops and a server in the house. The laptops have XP COA's on the undersides, which are now not worthwhile. How much is that going to cost me to do Windows?

It isn't just licensing either. BCDedit? How did they manage to make that so hard? The Win8 GUI is bad bad bad. Click on the start menu and up pops the start screen from the bottom. Bother, I want to go back down to the desktop... click the arrow near the bottom of the screen pointing down... it scrolls down, but not back down to the desktop, it goes to an application selection screen. Oh yes, the desktop was up on the start screen as a tile, now, where is that up arrow? At the top of the screen (big mouse movement required). It's like being in Zork's twisty maze of passages all alike, where you can go north, then south and not end up back where you started. "Connect to Network" doesn't take you to your NIC settings! "Storage" doesn't take you to disk management! GAAAH! It's too hard. too unintuitive, too restrictive. I only use it for games, and one-third of all my games run natively on Linux anyway.

*Nix is designed to allow operators to do useful data processing. In windows, if there isn't a specific app for the task, you need a developer or a ported unix tool/language. In *nix, you can put things together yourself. Having said that, I could easily use Linux on a day-to-day basis without using the command line. The command line is there for doing clever stuff. Pull all the music from an iTunes library, filter out all the Apple-specific stuff and serve it out over NFS or SMB if required - dead easy. Airplay may be able to do it, but then I'd need a recent Apple devices everywhere, costing $$$ instead of recycling old kit acquired for next to nothing. I see no reason to pay someone else when I can do things myself.

2
3

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Forums

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2017