back to article Windows 10 feedback: 'Microsoft, please do a deal with Google to use its browser'

When Microsoft announced the preview of Windows 10, it emphasised the “opportunity to influence product development decisions through the new Windows Feedback app directly within the product". Users can not only give feedback, but also see — and vote on — the feedback of others, giving all of us a chance to assess what users …

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  1. James 51 Silver badge

    Chrome? Rather use firefox.

    1. Frankee Llonnygog

      It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

      If they dropped IE and poured funds into Mozilla.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

        @Frankee I think it would be cheaper, too. All they'd have to do is stop the Mozilla people from working on pet projects instead.

        But I can't see anything like that happening until they start losing share in their corporate customers, many of whom still depend upon IE 6 compatibility. :-(

        1. shiftnumlock

          Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

          Not to mention IE period. We've got many business related web portals for financial that require IE. At the same time we've got absolutely none that require other browsers. As an enterprise we'd rather IE was maintained as the default indefinitely.

      2. Hellcat

        Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

        For home users perhaps, Firefix and Chrome are tinned worms for the enterprise due to the number of weird and wonderful business critical web apps* we have to support and often bork at every increase in version.

        I'd be happier if they bundled some sort of browser for reading local html files(read me's/help files) - but accessing something outside of localhost would prompt to choose an internet browser. Something like you can open docs in wordpad, but it's likely you're going to use open office/MS office/libre office/a.n.other to do any writing in real anger.

        *Not our choice to run them - and the dev team probably no longer exist!

        1. James 51 Silver badge

          Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

          If IE was standards compliant it would be less of a hassle.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

            "If IE was standards compliant it would be less of a hassle."

            A quick test shows 100/100 for IE 11 on the Acid 3 test...

            1. Anonymous Bullard
              Meh

              Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

              A quick test shows 100/100 for IE 11 on the Acid 3 test...

              Welcome to the 2010's!

              Shame it only scores 376/555 on the HTML5 test, though. Still the bane of any web app developer's life.

              (credit where it's due: it's better than it was a few years ago)

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

              RE: "A quick test shows 100/100 for IE 11 on the Acid 3 test"

              Oh, come on! You HAVE to judge IE by IE6. Any supposed improvements since then aren't real and are just lies put out by the ministry of truth

        2. wikkity

          Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

          "the number of weird and wonderful business critical web apps"

          At least you only have to support windows then. Having web apps target a cross platfrom browser is easier then.

        3. Frankee Llonnygog

          Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

          MS could develop a compatibility plugin...

      3. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

        Re: It would actually be a smart business move for Ms

        No, no, no. They'd just turn it into another thermonuclear clusterfuck of fail

    2. Anne-Lise Pasch

      Actually, I don't care as long as it reduces the number of browsers and permutations we have to support in the ecosystem. Pick a damned standard and stick to it, not 95% of a standard and 5% of undocumented fluff!

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        "Actually, I don't care as long as it reduces the number of browsers and permutations we have to support in the ecosystem. Pick a damned standard and stick to it, not 95% of a standard and 5% of undocumented fluff!"

        Well, make up your mind. Do you want a reduced number of players, which favours de facto standards of the "whatever the market leader does is the correct behaviour, so reverse engineer what that is and code to it", or do you want to pick a damned standard and stick to it, which is best policed by having at least three or four independent implementations (or interpretations, if the standard is not clear).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I think the permutations she refers to are IE6, IE7, IE8, IE9.... those are crap, and the newer IEs aren't that great either.

          Put it another way: the competitive landscape would not be significantly diminished if it was down to Firefox and chrome.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Actually, I don't care as long as it reduces the number of browsers and permutations we have to support in the ecosystem

        Yes, because the browser monoculture worked so fucking well for us before.

        Browsers are far more standards-compliant, and significantly more secure, now because of competition. Reducing the number of major players will not help.

        I hate IE (and Chrome; I merely dislike Firefox, with Classic Theme Restorer fighting back the Idiotic UI tide), but I don't want it to go away. Three major players is the bare minimum required to keep them on their toes.

    3. Dave K Silver badge

      Sorry, not whilst it has the abomination that is Australis. I ended my long association with Firefox recently over this very issue.

      1. iranu
        Happy

        Classic Theme Restorer Add-on

        I refused to 'upgrade' for the same reason so was stuck on v28.0. Then something weird happened and FF upgraded to v32.03 even though I didn't have it set to. I hate the UI so went about trying to change it. This add-on put everything back just as I had it - it's brilliant.

        https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/

        None of that australis nonsense for me.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. MrRtd

        ?

        But all the other browsers look similar to Firefox Australis, so I don't see what point there was in switching. Plus with Firefox you are able to make it look and act just like the older versions (something I and many others have done).

        1. Purple-Stater

          Re: ?

          I cannot put my tab bar at the bottom any longer (directly above the web page I'm viewing). Also, even using the add-ons to restore the Add-On bar, the Add-Ons that relied on it are not supported since v.28, so the functionality since Australis has been irreparably diminished.

          Knowing Australis was coming, I locked my FireFox version at 28, and downloaded the .exe "just in case". But mostly I've started using PaleMoon, where all the old stuff works just fine.

          1. iranu

            Re: ?

            Here you go: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tabs-on-bottom/

            This is what I love about FF - it's so customisable because even when Mozilla cock up there is someone out there to fix it with an add-on.

          2. Anonymous Crowbar

            Re: ?

            >I cannot put my tab bar at the bottom any longer (directly above the web page I'm viewing)

            This is the reason I will not use chrome.

            My FF is set like that @ v34, and ever since 26 or something. I am using classic theme restorer however.

      4. Drakkenson

        @DaveK ....Abomination that is Australis......

        You could try Cyberfox, it has the old interface by default

      5. illiad

        Dave K

        you need this:

        https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/

      6. Hans 1 Silver badge

        Yeah, I know ... Could someone please execute all ui designers who think that big ugly buttons are it? They only ever make sense with a touchscreen that gets some use ... and I have yet to see people use a touchscreen on anything other than a tablet/phone. Waste of screen real-estate for the rest of us.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Chrome is a resource hogging abomination

      Put it on a terminal server and see the number of users you can support on there drop by about 2 thirds.

      Even after turning as much cruft off as possible using the supplied GPOs, it still eats resources.

      1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: Chrome is a resource hogging abomination

        Yes and no.

        Chrome is a resource hogging abomination on a terminal server (regardless of the terminal protocol). The reason for this (and one of the reasons for its perceived "fastness" on normal hardware) is that it does most of the rendering on a canvas internally and updates the whole canvas at a time. Compared to that Firefox uses much more graphic prmitives from the underlying graphic subsystem. This allows remote access protocol implementations to optimize redraw and do a lot of ops locally. They do not get that chance with Chrome.

        As a result of this, Chrome when compared to Firefox (or MSFT offering for Windows T Server) sucks royally in a thin client environment.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      'Microsoft, please do a deal with Google to use its browser'

      But Chrome has loads more security holes even than IE! That would be a move backwards.

      1. Thought About IT

        JavaScript performance

        Better than doing a deal to use Chrome would be one to use V8, its JavaScript engine. That's much faster than IE's.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: JavaScript performance

          "Better than doing a deal to use Chrome would be one to use V8, its JavaScript engine. That's much faster than IE's."

          The last 3 major releases of IE (9, 10, 11) have all been faster than the current version of Chrome at the time on the SunSpider JavaScript performance test...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: JavaScript performance

            The last 3 major releases of IE (9, 10, 11) have all been faster than the current version of Chrome at the time on the SunSpider JavaScript performance test...

            And that's what could happen if your browser is deeply baked into the OS. An interesting benchmark would be to see what state the rest of your system is in while performing the JS tests...

            It's a shame their JS engine will never be able run on my computer... actually, no it's not.

          2. Thought About IT

            Re: JavaScript performance

            "The last 3 major releases of IE (9, 10, 11) have all been faster than the current version of Chrome at the time on the SunSpider JavaScript performance test..."

            Here are the scores for the Octane benchmark on my 64-bit Windows 7 PC:

            IE 11: 7,400

            FF 32: 12,400

            Chrome 38: 14,300

            The V8 JavaScript engine makes Chrome nearly twice as fast as IE, but I'll stick with FF as I don't consider that to be spyware.

    6. big_D Silver badge

      Chrome or Firefox? On an Atom Windows 8 tablet, give me IE every time. It is fast and touch optimised. Firefox is slow and doesn't have any touch functionality and Chrome is porky not touch friendly.

      On a "proper" desktop with Core iN processor Firefox is great, but on a low powered tablet, you just can't beat IE at the moment.

      1. James 51 Silver badge

        Waiting for 4gm of ram and a 64-bit edition before I even consider considering a windows tablet.

    7. Lusty Silver badge

      WTF?

      Never mind Chrome vs Firefox, didn't we JUST finish moaning at MS to get spyware OFF of default builds on OEM systems? Why would anyone now ask for spy software to be included. Chrome isn't all that much better than IE, and at least IE isn't writing down your every move...

      1. Avatar of They Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: WTF?

        Really? MS isn't recording every move with messenger, Skype, One drive and office 365 all being part of PRISM? You think Bing and IE isn't doing exactly the same???????

        The only difference is Google make money from spying (and probably report on the spying), and MS is just openly one of the creepy brigade.

        I like the feedback idea, but should be proven to work. Has any of the feedback been taken up I wonder. I mean what good is the tiles on the start menu if it doesn't actually allow personalisation.

  2. Admiral Grace Hopper

    "As slow as a fart in a frying pan"?

    Sounds quite nippy to me. I tend to go with other metaphors when trying to describe slowness: "Slow as a pregnant dugong", "like waiting for comments on an RFC", "like watching synapses fire in HR".

    1. returnmyjedi

      Re: "As slow as a fart in a frying pan"?

      Agreed. Basic rules of thermodynamics would suggest that farting into a (presumably hot) frying pan would increase its velocity somewhat. So IE12 must be very fast indeed, non?

      1. Admiral Grace Hopper

        Re: "As slow as a fart in a frying pan"?

        You raise an interesting point @returnmyjedi. A supercooled frying pan would result in a very slow fart. We need to establish the environment before measuring.

        1. Graham Hawkins

          Re: "As slow as a fart in a frying pan"?

          A supercooled pan cannot be legitmately described as a 'frying' pan.

          1. joeW

            Re: "...cannot be legitmately described as a 'frying' pan"

            Why not? What do you call your frying pan when it's hanging on the wall of your kitchen (at a temperature far below what is neccessary for frying)?

  3. cambsukguy

    Video keeps freezing on chrome

    On my Win7 at least, can be very annoying, affecting all pop-ups launched from one master, requires a Reload in each affected window to fix.

    And, how does one make Chrome have the search/address and the tabs on one line to save screen space (almost never need to see the address anyway) - it is trivial in IE and I can't see anything in the settings, clicking around the tabs and address bar was fruitless too.

    And, the Alt key doesn't make a menu system appear like it does on IE. I have to learn the Ctrl key shortcuts, is this CUA-compliant?

    And, for the record, who starts a new IE?, run it once and just start a new tab, which is quick enough on my old Core i5, even at 1100 MHz. A restart is not unknown but rare enough to not give a shit about start-up times.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: YMMV with Chrome....

      On the corporate Dell from Heck, I've had to switch back to usig Firefox (it wasn't just Chrome that was slow, when running Chrome). On other PCs, and on my Mac, Chrome is fine. I've also had both good and bad experience, with Chrome runing on Linux.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Video keeps freezing on chrome

      I've got Chrome on OS X 10.9 and OS X 10.10 beta. Both will play video in YouTube fine from YouTube.com, but if someone has embedded a video in a webpage there is just a gap where the video should be. Open the same page in incognito mode and the videos magically appear.

      Can't figure it out since it works in incognito and the issue happens on two different OSes. Tried clearing cache, but to no avail. Seriously tempted to switch back to Firefox to be honest..

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Video keeps freezing on chrome

        Sounds like a plugin or setting is disabling the plugin by default (these aren't applied in incognito mode)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Video keeps freezing on chrome

      almost never need to see the address anyway

      wow! I hope you don't click on email links.

  4. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    A 'No tiles mode' please

    And when I set windows explorer to display 'Details' I want it everywhere. Not revert to ICONS when I go to the Recycle Bin. 99.999999% of the files in there don't have an Icon.

    Finally, give me some easy way to remove the 20x20 ICON that when you drag a file to another directory opens up. Can someone please explain what 'extra' it btings to the operations.

    Preferably we need a 'Uber Ultra Geek' setting that just gets rid of all the crap once and for all. Then we can get on with using the OS for real work rather than consuming music/media etc. Most of us have other devivces for that. Continued emphais on consumption is IMHO, a sure loser in this world of Phablets that will do the job just as well.

  5. Phil_Evans

    Given the Borg-like logic of Microsoft, merely the mention of Chrome will relegate the comment to the bin. IE precedes Bing by many many years yet it still goes on like a Celine Dion performance at Vegas. People tried Bing, hated it, laughted at it and these days largely ignore it. but with IE, MSFT is in some weird self-inflicting Monkey trap. Chrome is just sooooo much nicer and faster to use for so many people.

    I expect though, that ceding to a foreign browser somehow makes people less tied in the desktop flavour underneath. And there lies the rub. Expect IE to continue to contribute strongly to the demise of the (consumer) Windows Desktop and the infanticide of Surface and it's siblings.

  6. Jim 59

    Okay

    Running in Virtualbox, looks fine to me. Never quite got the idea of tiles TBH, but as long as they are optional, fine. Regarding the look of the desktop, why don't MS (and Gnome for that matter) just forget it and copy the Mac ?

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