back to article First Irish boy band U2. Now Apple pushes ANOTHER thing into iPhones, iPods, iPads

Apple will release iOS 8 – the latest major version of its mobile operating system – today. The downloadable update will come two days before the new iPhone 6 and 6 Plus handsets go on sale. In addition to the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, iOS 8 will run on iPhone models dating back to the 4S, tablets as old as the iPad 2 and 5th …

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First, world problems...

Only as far back as the 4S! Sue the bastards!

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Fill up yer memory

If you don't like the idea of Apple pushing the update file to your iDevice, like they did with iOS7.

On the other hand, they may have learnt their lesson but I doubt lucifer has a snow plough on order.

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Re: Fill up yer memory

"Fill up yer memory"

That's hardly a practical idea now is it?

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Re: Fill up yer memory

"Fill up yer memory"

That's hardly a practical idea now is it?

It is - TomTom is all you need :)

However, I don't think this update is automatic - too risky by far.

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Pint

Re: Fill up yer memory

"32GB" iPhone 4S, with 1.0 GB Available. And that's with all the music files removed, except for one U2 album that seems to have slipped through somehow.

So, yeah, It's easy.

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Re: Fill up yer memory

> "Fill up yer memory"

"That's hardly a practical idea now is it?"

Okay, try holding it wrong.

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I thought Samsung invented phone bloat. Now Apple wants in on the game, and probably call it their own.

Some things never change...

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Don't forget Microsoft

The 32GB Surface tablet only gave you 16GB space for yourself because OS ate the rest.,,

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/05/microsoft_surface_rt_storage_capacitites/

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Trollface

Re: Don't forget Microsoft

Don't panic! Just do the same fix and put a 64GB MicroSD card in the side, right?

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WTF?

Well that's Samsung for you. Slavishly copying Apple's future innovations again....

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Re: Don't forget Microsoft

I have the 32GB Transformer Book which has the same "problem" - but given that it (and the Surface RT) is priced at or less than 16GB models of various IOS and Android 10" tablets, it doesn't seem unreasonable. At least they have upped the minimum memory available, and put it out at the base price. And the microSD that adds up to 128GB. The biggest problem with Samsung phones (with the exception of the Note) is that it's often hard to find anything other than the 16GB model available - not sure if that's the fault of Samsung or the carriers.

People can delete the U2 etc music, can't they? If so, it's not an issue of space anyway, though I would consider it commercial spam (if someone wants music free, they can get it the same way everyone else gets it for free...) If they can't delete it, that's just plain ridiculous anyway.

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"Apple's rivals have been quick to point out that many of the iPhone 6's selling-point features have been in Android devices for years."

Great. But the problem with that is that these features are on Android devices, and I haven't got time for all the fiddlarsing about that Android demands. Nor the clutter, and the all over the place interfaces.

Hopefully one day a company will create a phone OS that isn't shit.

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Nokia looked like they had with Meego. Then Elop happened...

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"Great. But the problem with that is that these features are on Android devices, and I haven't got time for all the fiddlarsing about that Android demands. Nor the clutter, and the all over the place interfaces."

Then try a Lumia, something mid range like an 830. Particularly if you throw on the dev preview. Has all the features iOS8 is touting minus the price and lack of HW choice Apple give you and none of the issues,you mentioned with Android.

Plus NFC that you can use! ;)

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Anonymous Coward

It's called Nexus

It's stock Android, and it's as nice as iOS is, it's clutter-free, fast fluid, infact everything iOS is, but it doesn't limit you like iOS and Apple products do.

I guess you saw a Samsung and assumed all Android phones were like that. Sadly too many other Apple fanboys believe Apple's Android FUD and lies.

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Happy

At the risk of a) feeding the troll, and b) sounding like a shill,

the nice thing about Android is that I can "fiddlarse about" if I so choose, but it's not a requirement (unless you have a shitty handset - but even then, it's just a case of finding out how to remove all the shit that Samsung have preloaded it with).

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Re: It's called Nexus

My HTC One's interface looks remarkably similar to my Nexus 7's and seems to operate in pretty much the same way, as well. Samsung must really be out there.

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Re: At the risk of a) feeding the troll, and b) sounding like a shill,

the nice thing about Android is that I can "fiddlarse about" if I so choose, but it's not a requirement (unless you have a shitty handset - but even then, it's just a case of finding out how to remove all the shit that Samsung have preloaded it with).

Problem is, I'd assume 99% of Android handset users don't care about removing the Samsung bloatware. They get the experience that's handed to them and that sucks. Having the choice to change it requires knowledge most of joe blogg Android handset users don't have. Even if they have the whole internet to them, they just want to experience it from the box.

That's why Apple have retained the trend of selling phones by the bucket load after launch, after launch. The experience isn't unfamiliar from one iteration of iOS to the next. Android takes the hardcore change + allow manufacturer customisation approach. Something that never ends well with users.

My other main point is that apps suck under the Android tree. Too fragmented and the experience is different from one app to the next. That's the main complaint from many of my geeky friends who wanted to make the freedom from iOS. They're now coming back after the iPhone 6 release.

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webOS had a similar fate...

And, at the risk of getting ridiculed, webOS, which is still a more pleasant interface than the current offerings

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Holmes

@werdsmith - "Great. But the problem with that is that these features are on Android devices, and I haven't got time for all the fiddlarsing about that Android demands. Nor the clutter, and the all over the place interfaces."

That is called being a sheeple. It occurs when you prefer that Apple decide what you are allowed to do or not do on your own phone. It gives sheeple a sense of safety and comfort.

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FAIL

Third-party app makers are frozen out of the party?

Apple provides Apple Pay using the NFC chip on it's own phone. Apple is in the business of providing its own software on its own hardware. Any other mobile manufacturer can provide a similar service. Yes, I can see how Apple is abusing its monopoly in the mobile market :)

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Re: Third-party app makers are frozen out of the party?

What?! Either they have a monopoly or they have a minuscule market share, they simply cannot have both.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Third-party app makers are frozen out of the party?

misread 3rd party app makers as 3rd party phone makers?

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Apple is the reason some stuff happens

Wifi calling been on my Nexus 4 for ages apparently, Boo all use on Vodaphone, Apple does it and I expect (since EE is doing so)n that Vodafone will implement it.

Used to be Apple innovates, now Apple plays catchup, but until they do, no one cares!

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Re: Apple is the reason some stuff happens

The networks could say 'Efff off you Fandroids. We ain't implementing Wifi calling'

Then the Behmoth that is called Apple says, "Excuse me chaps, will you be so kind as to enable WiFi calling?"

The networks bend over (fearing being ... well you know) and implement it benefitting not only Apple users but those peed off Android ones as well.

How exactly is that wrong?

If something that benefits all the network users gets done then great. If the network become so picky that they only implement it for apple users then I can see that the Android community would have something legit to moan about.

You have to ask why google hasn't asked the networks to implement it though?

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Re: How exactly is that wrong?

Because it means Apple gets to decide which capabilities gain traction, not the market or the users?

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Re: How exactly is that wrong?

Because it means Apple gets to decide which capabilities gain traction, not the market or the users?

That at least, isn't Apple's fault. You can't blame Apple for the Carriers being utterly shit. They were shit way before Apple got into the mobile industry. Whatever you may think about Apple as a company (and boy can they be annoying sometimes), there's a good argument to say they only succeeded with the iPhone because they ignored the Carriers, and listened to the customers. While the other phone manufacturers made ever more concessions to get their few dollars of feature support per handset. 50p for WAP, another £1 if there's a hard-coded button that launches our WAP (spit!) portal, £2 for a send MMS button in the photo program etc. If the carriers had really known their customers they'd have invented FAP and paid for special buttons for it...

Samsung have the same power as Apple. If they wanted a feature allowed, they could threaten to boycott the network that refused to play ball. They'd arguably do more damage than Apple if they did.

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Re: Apple is the reason some stuff happens

I had a form of wifi calling on an iPhone 3. A BT app which used your wireless connection to make a call.

Obviously BT put the cost on your (home) phone line account but I figured if I ever found myself low on credit, it might be useful.

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Re: Apple is the reason some stuff happens

Though you compare "Fandroids" to "the Behmoth that is called Apple" - last time I checked, there were companies behind this Android thing and all those phones. OTOH, the networks could say "Efff off you iphone zealots".

How is it wrong?

Because it means the majority of users have to wait years for Apple to implement a feature, before it's supported.

Because it means that 3rd party companies are supporting the minority of iphone users in terms of which features are supported, which both is not useful for most users, and anti-competitive.

Indeed, the fact that everyone gains when a new feature is supported, is all the more reason why 3rd parties should support a new feature _whoever_ introduces it, not just when Apple does.

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Re: How exactly is that wrong?

Oh yes, it's the fault of the networks - I don't think anyone's saying otherwise. I'm not convinced that Apple are behaving any different in terms of negotiation though - the networks didn't stop being rubbish just because Apple came along. The networks do improve, but slowly and with reluctance (e.g., at long last we're starting to see better deals for roaming).

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Re: Apple is the reason some stuff happens

I'm still amazed that Google, Apple & Microsoft have not bought up a 'network operator' each - in each main market, to impliment a seamless gsm/voip experience using the various smart handsets.

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Re: Apple is the reason some stuff happens

And if someone called you back on your home number, did that BT app on your iPhone 3 ring?

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Re: Apple is the reason some stuff happens

So, Apple have clearly worked with mobile operators to make this happen. You have to as Mark, why haven't Google, or Samsung, or HTC, or LG, or MotoGoogleLenovo? No one has to wait for Apple. As pointed out, be pissed off with you mobile operator and Samsung or Google; they are the ones that failed to get this implemented before.

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Boffin

OS vs apps

" iOS 8 can automatically filter, straighten and crop snaps,"

<pedant>Really? The *operating system* can do that? More likely bundled apps that come *with* the OD, but not the OS itself.</pedant>

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JDX
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Re: OS vs apps

Paint is part of Windows, surely?

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Re: OS vs apps: Paint

Ah, clever sarcasm.

Original iPod

Apple enters MP3 player market after Creative and others, but does better marketing and end to end ecosytem. People are convinced iPod is original MP3 player.

Original iPhone

Apple does a phone with no physical keypad based on off the shelf chips (Samsung SC6400 family ARM CPU) that is an iPod merged with a reference phone design.

They do a lovely port of OSX as iOS (derived from Next, derived from BSD) with a very slick UI designed for capacitive low resolution touch (ignored from 1980s because foolishly the goal was handwriting recognition which needs a resistive screen to get resolution).

The original iPhone is hugely successful because it's the first with a decent Data plan from phone operators. Other smart phones are only usable on WiFi or by business due to x100 data cost. Yes the simplicity and slick GUI helped a lot.

Ever after they have been accused of innovation.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OS vs apps: Paint

The original iPhone is hugely successful because it's the first with a decent Data plan from phone operators

Errm, not quite. AFAIK, that honour goes to Blackberry where operators assigned a special tariff. Apple's innovation was that it was capable of making mobile networks share their revenue for participating in the whole iPhone thing - for the first time in the history of mobile phones, a VENDOR was calling the shots. That never happened before, and nobody else has managed since either.

Having worked inside telecomms and mobile operators, not only do I know that they make enough profit to become sluggish and wasteful (efficiency only shows up when money is tight IMHO), but to get them to share their gains with an external 3rd party that is not in the networking business is a feat that frankly made my jaw drop.

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Re: OS vs apps: Paint

The first iPhone didn't even have 3G, only wifi. So having a data plan was irrelevant.

Once operators saw the uptake and the potential, they were falling over themselves to launch iPhone-specific plans. Also, Apple charged operators a few bob for use of the trademark "iPhone" in their plan names. For a while you could get the exact same plan at a cheaper price by choosing the variant without the fruity trademark in the name.

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Re: OS vs apps: Paint

Given the price of iphones, it's odd to claim credit based on it being cheaper...

The original iphone wasn't a smartphone (couldn't do apps) other than the "it's marketed as a smartphone" definition, it did however do Internet access as was standard on all phones by the 2000s. If networks unfairly gave iphone users cheaper data plans, then that's something to criticise.

"hugely successful" - 8 million or so isn't bad for a first release, but it's way down the list on best selling phones. For comparison, the 2009 Nokia 5230, the best selling smartphone of all time, sold 150 million. Also Apple put all their weight behind one phone - companies like Nokia and Samsung vastly outsold them (and still do outsell them, though Samsung overtook Nokia).

GUIs are a matter of preference, I don't find anything "slick" about it - you touch an icon, it does something, nothing new. Multitouch can be useful, but no good for one-handed use (amusingly the standard argument iphone users make against Android - well, until iphone 6 that is). That leaves us with minor stuff like scroll bounceback (which I always found annoying). Handwriting recognition was just one of many things that other people were looking at and supporting, as indeed they still do (Galaxy Note, and Windows devices). Various companies have introduced swipe-based UIs since then, this wasn't all Apple, and I'm not really a fan of those actions anyway.

Of course, I'm sure the Apple fans will pick up all sorts of minor reasons about what was special, because we constantly have to hear about this 7 years later. I'll thank Apple when I hear them thanking the many innovations they take for granted that came first from other companies, both before and after.

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Re: OS vs apps: Paint

>The first iPhone didn't even have 3G, only wifi. So having a data plan was irrelevant.

The first iPhone had 2G (GSM/GPRS/EDGE) and was really only intended to be used on one network in the USA, even though it did make it to some networks outside of the US shortly before being replaced by the 3G version.

So having a data plan was not irrelevant, but it was essentally useless given the speed of the data.

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"" iOS 8 can automatically filter, straighten and crop snaps,"

<pedant>Really? The *operating system* can do that? More likely bundled apps that come *with* the OD, but not the OS itself.</pedant>"

I vaguely remember when a dominant company "integrated" systems into its os to block out competitors ... err ... I meant "improve the user's interractive experience". Many years later, the court cases were more or less cooked and the apps were no longer insisted upon, just forced down the users' throats with the blessings of some very rich lawyers.

Isn't Apple tip-toeing along the same tightrope here ... are they abusing market position and blocking out competition?

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Competition

"Isn't Apple tip-toeing along the same tightrope here ... are they abusing market position and blocking out competition?"

Absolutely, but they'll get away with it. (same way that they get away with having features on the phone which only Apple-authored apps can access to get better performance)

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JDX
Gold badge

Isn't Apple tip-toeing along the same tightrope here ...?

"I vaguely remember when a dominant company "integrated" systems into its os to block out competitors"

The key word is in your own post. Dominant. iOS/Apple is not in a dominant position in the mobile OS market, and it is nowhere near being a monopoly. The dominant player is Android/Google.

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"Isn't Apple tip-toeing along the same tightrope here ... are they abusing market position and blocking out competition?"

No.

Please educate yourself on the legal framework involved and the definitions that are relevant.

Apple does not have any "abusable" market position in any legal or logical sense.

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"Apple does not have any "abusable" market position in any legal or logical sense."

Exactly! These are the very same people that will tell us in another post how little market share Apple has...

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Doesn't matter if the features have been available for years...

... if nobody ever used them.

Seriously, who ever used NFC payments other than Oyster Card holders, let alone NFC payments via phone? The NFC payment support in Android phones was poorly thought out and didn't work very well from the accounts of the few people who actually tried to use it. I'm sure Apple have learned from those mistakes and done it right. Apple are rarely the first people to do something but they're usually the first to do it in a way that makes people actually want to use it.

If you build it they might come but only if you don't do a shit job of building it in the first place.

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Re: Doesn't matter if the features have been available for years...

"Seriously, who ever used NFC payments other than Oyster Card holders,"

Those ;poor sods who waved thier wallets at the barriers yesterday -- and got thier credit cards charged for the priviledge as well as the Oyster card?

Boris - a kind and giving man.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Doesn't matter if the features have been available for years...

Spot on. The problem with the Android approach is trust. In Apple's case, there is one (1) vendor to kick if it goes wrong, who are you going to kick if your Android NFC is less than perfect? Vendors such as Samsumg or HTC? Google?

When it goes wrong, I suspect they will all blame each other and you'll be left wondering if there will ever be an update to fix it, whereas Apple won't have much of a choice. Personally, I think that's a much safer position to be in when it concerns your money.

As a matter of fact, I see Apple Pay as a main driver to finally get those Apple ID security problems sorted out - now they will have to comply with much harsher, externally imposed standards. It's about frigging time, their Single Sign On approach can really do with some updating.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Doesn't matter if the features have been available for years...

"Seriously, who ever used NFC payments other than Oyster Card holders,"

Those ;poor sods who waved their wallets at the barriers yesterday -- and got thier credit cards charged for the priviledge as well as the Oyster card?

I don't think I will ever use a credit card. The benefit of an Oyster card is that you can store it separately from your wallet, so tagging in doesn't show how fat your wallet is and which pocket needs to be sliced to get to it. Secondly because of exactly what you indicated.

This then gets me to the same reason I won't use an NFC mobile to pay - it shows I have a mobile worth stealing, and by using it to pay I indicate it's even more worth than just the phone. Add to that the fact that its shiny surface will have enough of my fingerprints on to reproduce one with whatever method is current ("gummi finger" approach, for instance) and it just doesn't strike me as a good idea. Using fingerprint logins is only a good idea if the rest of the device is sufficiently covered with oleophobic coating to remove any "help", and that hasn't really worked so far on the iPhone.

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Gold badge

Re: Doesn't matter if the features have been available for years...

Those ;poor sods who waved thier wallets at the barriers yesterday -- and got thier credit cards charged for the priviledge as well as the Oyster card?

Now you'd have thought that in the design of NFC, the ability to pick which thing you wanted to talk to out of the etheric chatter and set up a link with that and that alone would be a "must have".

Just goes to show what a right heap of shit that standard is.

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