Israeli spies rebel over mass-snooping on innocent Palestinians

Re: The aim should be to end the rockets.

Rockets, like guns, have never killed anyone. It always the PERSON wielding the weapon who does the killing. But I'd never expect a progressive/liberal/commie like yourself to open yourself to new ideas.

Re: A joke, or some form of Israeli PR right? @h4rm0ny

"The aim should be to end the rockets. For that you look at why there are rockets. Reasonable enough?"

There's a problem with that aim. Israel can't end the rockets. Only the Palestinians can, and they simply don't want to. Nothing Israel does will ever be enough for them unless it nukes itself, which would be a tad unusual as an approach to ending conflict.

"You ask what I think Israel should do? Happy to answer. Withdraw from the Occupied Territories, stop blockading supplies into Palestine, stop bombing power stations, schools, homes, stop carrying out assassinations, invite the UN to negotiate a proper peace and accept it. This would undermine support for attacks on Israel by the common Palestinians who just want peace and to live their lives."

And here you go massively off track. I asked how Israel should respond, in essence, militarily.

Stoping bombing powerstations, schools, and homes first requires that Hamas stop launching rockets from those locations and hiding their stockpile of weapons in such locations.

Stopping assasinations as you call them is easy. Palestine simply needs to hand over for trial all of the terrorists within its midst, such as the entire leadership and membership of Hamas.

"Against a populace and people who have nowhere to retreat to and thus cannot be the ones to end the conflict. "

So, so very wrong. The conflict can be over tomorrow. Palestine simply never fires another bullet, bomb, or rocket at Israel, and the war would be over forever. Contrary to your suggestion, the possibility of peace exists solely within the hands of the Palestinians, for it is they whom are always the aggressor.

"Israel is bombing and attacking an urban area. Where exactly do you expect to find the people you're attacking other than in the place you're attacking? If there's a "gunman" in a home, there's a good chance that's because he LIVES there. This is what happens when you invade somewhere people live."

Again you have this arse-about-face. Palestine is launching the attack from those locations, so where exactly is it you expect the military response to fall? Stand in the street behind your wife and children and start shooting up the place. When the police arrive, it'll be no good moaning if your wife catches a bullet because its your fault for hiding behind her while firing a weapon.

"No Palestinian has the power to force the IDF to bomb schools and powerstations or to bulldoze homes"

Every single Palestinian with a gun, rocket launcher, or who allows the use of their home for military or terrorist purposes has that power and has caused the response they have received. Every. Single. One.

"Only the most twisted logic could argue that a group so much weaker is forcing a far more powerful and well-funded body to murder it in such numbers. "

Only most deluded mind would fail to grasp that launching a military campaign from a civilian area will result in many civillian dead. Yet still they choose it and you defend it.

Bear this in mind: Hamas have killed more Palestinians in this conflict than they have killed Israelis.

"As a species we should be better than this."

I suspect this is our only possible zone of agreement on this issue.

Re: A joke, or some form of Israeli PR right? @h4rm0ny

""the deaths of Palestinian civilians are equally tragic"

Except it seems to you that they're not."

Then you have misunderstood or ignored what I have written.

"There's a thing called "proportionality" in military law. To put it bluntly, the law states that only the force necessary should be used to defeat any given foe. "

Given that peace has not been achieved, your statement allows for a significant escalation of the military response.

"And there's no defending Israel's assault on Gaza as "proportionate"."

Really? I view it as rather restrained myself. Israel hasn't known a decades peace since WWII. It is attacked without mercy and without rest.

"Right, so where are they to hide?"

They are not to hide. Terrorists hide. If they wish to behave a soldiers, waging war upon an enemy, then they should bloody well stand and fight the battle they started. Hoping to defray your losses by hiding behind civillians is the mark of a coward. It also makes increased civillian deaths unavoidable.

"So they're hiding in tunnels, and your pet military the IDF comes along and demolishes a hospital where there may be injured Hamas military men getting treatment"

The IDF are nothing to do with me, and certainly not my pet. Are you always so emotional?

I presume you're referring to the hospital whose basement was ebing used as a military HQ and weapons cahce? That hospital? Well, what exactly did you think would happen?

Until the people of Palestine learn to love their children more than they hate Israelis, they will continue to die. For as long as the people of Palestine allow men of war to hide behind them, they will continue to die alongside them. If this is news to you, then you haven't been paying attention.

As has already been said, legitimate armies use their weapons to protect civilians: Hamas use civilians to protect their weapons. And you have the gaul to blame the IDF for that?