back to article Pentagon hacker McKinnon can't visit sick dad for fear of extradition

Pentagon hacker Gary McKinnon is afraid tor visit his sick father in Glasgow after advice from his lawyers about the possibility of extradition. McKinnon's father, Charlie, is in hospital after suffering a stroke. But lawyers for the London-based hacker have advised him against visiting his dad in hospital in Scotland because …

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Anonymous Coward

The US need to grow the fuck up and stop acting like the self absorbed teenagers of the world and threatening our citizens. If the UK government threatened a US citizen the US would take their side and fight until their version of justice is reached.

The US really are hated the world over, and they can't see why...basically, they are Vicky Pollard.

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Anonymous Coward

So basically you are upset at the US because the US government fights for its citizens while your government does not?

> The US really are hated the world over, and they can't see why

Every country hates the US for different reasons, to many to count. Brits don't like us because we don't use the letter U in every second word and detest sweater vests, Germans because we smile and laugh to often (more than once a day), Italians because most people in the US think pizza is Italian, and the French are just snobs to everyone. Lets not forget about the difference between how the world feels about football and how the US feels about soccer...

There are a few global reasons that everyone agrees on (loud, boisterous, obnoxious, uninformed of the local culture for example), but people don't seem to realize that most people visiting from the US are on vacation to experience the culture and by being on vacation they are drunk or hungover hence the loud, boisterous, obnoxious, etc behavior.

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Anonymous Coward

"Every country hates the US for different reasons"

No no. We all hate you for the same reasons. But explaining them to an American is about as much use as explaining to your cat why your source code wont compile.

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"There are a few global reasons that everyone agrees on"

Yes. None of those were the ones you mentioned. You could consider some these:

A one sided view of all forms of criminal law

A one sided view of all international law

Shit-stirring all round the world

Spying all round the world, including on heads of state of friendly nations

Re-arming the Israelis to help them kill Palestinians

Inventing excuses for, and then prosecuting unjustified wars

Starting wars that reduce countries to rubble, then fucking off when it all goes rancid afterwards.

Have I missed anything? I suspect a whole lot more besides.

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Anonymous Coward

@ Ledswinger

So you don't like US citizens because of policies the US government have created and implemented even though those citizens have no idea about the policy or may have even voted against it? Sounds like fine "I hate you because of where you were born!" reasoning to me.

Note: there is a difference between not liking the US government and not liking a US citizen...

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Anonymous Coward

Bummer

Our cats are smart enough to understand why - I suspect your cat went through the same education system that you did. {}:>))

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Anonymous Coward

@AC, I don't think Ledswinger mentioned US citizens anywhere in his well considered statements.

I personally have nothing against the average US citizen, however when it comes to US authorities the attitude changes somewhat, so much so that I would never visit your country ever again.

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Unhappy

@ Anon Coward (initial poster)

The US really are hated the world over, and they can't see why...basically, they are Vicky Pollard.

Actually, no, we're George Bush Dick Cheney. (In spite of the best intentions of some, nay, most of us....)

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re:- " Brits don't like us because we don't use the letter U in every second word..."

I suspect the "Brit's" don't like the US because you took advantage of somewhat significant European and Eastern events during the first half of the 20th century which effected the "Brits" trade. Admittedly the US did turn up - late both times - but only after agreements which effectively neutered the resolve of the "Brit's", and then only to protect US economic expansion. Nicely done in the short term, but a bit buggered with China coming onto the scene.

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> there is a difference between not liking the US government and not liking a US citizen

Not really. As a citizen with the right to vote, I'm partially responsible for those idiots, regardless of the crap toss-a-coin choice I get every 4 years. I just facepalm a lot and practice my Canadian accent, eh?

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partial responsibility

Gene, as a citizen with the right to vote, you get a choice every two years with your federal Representative. Your ballot might offer you more than two pre-printed choices, and you could write in a candidate of your choice if the ones on offer are not to your liking.

Which Canadian accent do you practice?

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"So you don't like US citizens because of policies the US government "

No, that's not what I meant. In fact, I'll go as far as to apologise if that's what came across. I have American friends, I generally like American people, and warts-n-all I admire the US as a country.

What I was getting at was the point you were coming to, that the wider reputation of the USA, people included has been really, really harmed by the actions that I mentioned, and that are indeed the actions of your political elite. My own (UK) government are culpable on 50% of the examples mentioned, and it has likewise harmed our global standing, and the reputation of the Brits as a people.

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Trollface

"So you don't like US citizens because of policies the US government "?

That's just not true. We don't like the United States as a country because of the policies of the US government. We don't like US citizens because - as the original poster pointed out - they are loud, boisterous, obnoxious and uninformed of the local culture.

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FAIL

Re: Anon Cluetard

"The US need to grow the fuck up and stop acting like the self absorbed teenagers of the world and threatening our citizens...." No, people like McKinnon need to 'grow up the fuck up' and stop,thinking they can commit criminal acts with no resulting comebacks. This current round of whining by McKinnon and co has NOTHING to do with the US, they have not said they plan to extradite him, it is just a publicity stunt on McKinnon's part.

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Re: re:- " Brits don't like us because we don't use the letter U in every second word..."

> Admittedly the US did turn up - late both times - but only after agreements which effectively neutered the resolve of the "Brit's", and then only to protect US economic expansion.

Hmmm. Normally it is the residents of the land of the free that I seem to encounter who don't seem to know their own history but love to point out the failures of others.

While yes, the US took a long time to realise that an isolationist position was untenable, I suspect that a certain nation behaving like dicks in the Ukraine at the moment might offer a slightly different viewpoint about the length of time taken to open up the western front. The alliance with Stalin was never more than that of a common enemy and from a British point of view it was preferable for the Nazi and communists to be killing each other than to become another Spain.

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"explaining to your cat why your source code wont compile."

I tried that once. He stared at me blankly, and walked over the keyboard. For a moment there I thought the "random" keypresses would find just the right combination for me to see the problem.

It didn't work. In fact, it made things worse. So I fed him some biscuits and put him out of the house.

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Coat

Re: Anon Cluetard

<snip>

"This current round of whining by McKinnon and co has NOTHING to do with the US, they have not said they plan to extradite him, it is just a publicity stunt on McKinnon's part."

I agree Matt. The laws regarding extradition apply to the whole of the UK as do the Europeans laws on human rights etc. It is a load of old rubbish and I am no friend of the US but do think that he had a case to answer. Hiding behind some objective medical ruling in the new "I am not responsible for my own actions" society is crap.

he has just launched a new business and he needs a bit of spin and publicity at the moment. In my opinion he should shut the fsck up and thank <insert deity> for his continued freedom for his criminal acts.

I liked the demonstration done by the women of Iran around the first Gulf war. They gave themselves brazillians and paraded naked in the main square. The chant that was heard emanating from the ululating crowd was "read our lips no more Bush". Errr, too hot here for a coat, will a t shirt do?

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Obligatory Internet Spelling/Gammer Trap Triggered

"you're spelling"

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Re: Obligatory Internet Spelling/Gammer Trap Triggered

And, look, I did it with Gammer.

Such a strange but powerful phenomenon.

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"There is a difference between not liking the US government and not liking a US citizen"

What is the average percentage of the US population that can be bothered voting? Roughly 60%

So, that's 40% of the populace who can't be arsed to make enough of a difference locally to try and mitigate the global opinion. Enough of a reason to dislike them.

Then, you have those who constantly vote for the one party, regardless of actual policies, and do nothing to hold their chosen representatives accountable when they breach international or local laws. Given how it happens on both sides, let's call that 30%.

Then, we can add about another 10% for either the extreme right or left wing loonies who demand the rest of the world HAS to work the way they want, regardless of whether that way works in reality.

So there is justifiable dislike and/or hatred for 80% the US populace.

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Stop

Excuse me....

...4chan/b is that way ------>

Please all of you just grow up. It's like a childish school yard squabble just on a global scale.

The word you need to look up is xenophobia, once playtime is over, go back you your respective schools and look it up.

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WTF?

Who is Vicky Pollard?!? & does the US really care!?!

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Trollface

R U A Yankee - Doodle - Dandy - Pandy!?!

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Angel

Canucks don't hate the great old USA!?! They're our southern bumpkin cousins, ♡ eh!?!

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FAIL

Sadly, US not the only one...

The problem is that I don't understand the hypocrisy of Brits hating Americans for being "loud" and "stupid"... I've been here in the UK for 14 years now, and I have seen Brits in action here and abroad (especially Italy and Spain), and they're equally drunk, stupid, and loud.. SOMEONE is buying the Daily Mail and the Sun here in the UK (shite "newspapers" requiring the IQ of a pet rock), and going by UK culture/television (Big Brother & other vapid shows etc.) I'd say the majority of the UK populace is equally thick as shit as the US population.

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g e

You might have missed

The US offering newly be-rubbled countries 'rebuilding' aid provided, naturally, by US construction corps who go in, milk all the money out of the country and then bugger off leaving them newly be-skinted as well as be-rubbled. Then they have to go to the IMF or World Bank (or whichever it is this month) and beg for money on terms dictated by powerful western nations (to not point fingers any further).

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This, definitely this. I love the US, I love US citizens. But I hope I never have to visit the place again. The DHS look at you as presumed guilty of something for daring to enter their country. They don't have a shred of humanity about them. I visited Illinois, Lousiana, Texas and California, usually several times each. And every DHS I met was cut from the same cloth. Then when you get into the damned place you see it is all government and state workers.

Listen guys, I have a pretty decent job. I don't want to defect, immigrate or even jaywalk. I want to come in, do my business and leave again.

As for the government foreign policy..

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Facepalm

"....loud, boisterous, obnoxious, uninformed of the local culture for example...." Sounds like the majority of Brits on holiday, TBH.

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Re: Sadly, US not the only one...

And, sadly, you are correct. Culture, manners, style and taste have all declined catastrophically in the last forty years. It's all 'me...me...me' and everything, but everything has to be somebody's fault.

End of rant.

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Free extradition for Scottish

Since he's Scottish, if he does get extradited, he will get it for free. While if he came from the rest of UK (RUK), he will have to pay the extradition costs himself...

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Facepalm

How about not telling the newspapers and just getting the train up there. Unless they have black ops watching his father in hospital how will they know he's there. There was no passport control last time I crossed the Borders. Maybe best not to use the credit card to buy the ticket mind.

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I doubt the Merkins were even aware of the different jurisdictions jeopardy otherwise they'd already have tried something surreptitious to make him visit Scotland then nab him while there. Oh, little bit of a conspiracy theory there.

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Paranoia or Publicity?

I think hardboiledphil has nailed it. So jump in the car and be there and back in a day. It's either total paranoia or a little publicity for the new project.

Personally, I would be rather embarrassed if my mother was talking publicly for me at forty eight, no matter what my 'condition', but hey ho, it takes all sorts I suppose.

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Re: Paranoia or Publicity?

Indeed my first thought on this was attention whore.

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They are aware of the difference, certainly after Abdul Al-Megrabi (lockerbie bomber) was released from prison on compassionate grounds by the Scottish Justice Secretary, and the English government told them they had no powers to intervene because it was a different country. It should be noted that the English Justice Secretary took the same action with regards to Ronnie Biggs at around the same time.

Another suggestion I would as is that he should not fly to Scotland, he should go by road or rail. Airlines are required to check the ID of people flying on their planes, and usually people show their passport though most airlines will accept alternative forms of ID.

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He hacked US military systems. Even if he did achieve this more by luck than skill, he probably still has a man from the NSA reading every email and IM conversation he has.

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"They are aware of the difference, certainly after Abdul Al-Megrabi (lockerbie bomber) "

<snip>

Another load of old bollocks foisted on us by the US.

USS Vincennes + Iranian Airbus=Iran+George Habash+PFLP+Pan Am flight 103 = Revenge by Iran.

I have been saying that for years and at the time was involved with it all. Libya was the US bug bear then and they were fingered rather than Iran. Iran comissioned the PFLP through the auspices of George Habash to do the deed. The nearest Libya got was the meetings in Malta between some Arab Intelligence agencies.

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"He hacked US military systems. Even if he did achieve this more by luck than skill, he probably still has a man from the NSA reading every email and IM conversation he has."

Hacked it by using the default user/password combination. Frankly the US government should be thanking him for exposing and highlighting the incompetence of the sys admins. He did them a favour and showed them they needed to, you know, actually secure their security services own secure systems.

The ungrateful gits.

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This seriously sucks...

I wish our government (US) would just leave the poor guy alone. He's been through hell and now this. For a supposedly "Christian" country (per the forefathers) we sure don't believe in "doing unto others as we would have them do unto us".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This seriously sucks...

That quote is only ever used by people in authority to tell you to be nice to others. It never applies to them

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Re: This seriously sucks...

'I wish our government (US) would just leave the poor guy alone.'

Where is it written that the US government have bothered him since he won his extradition battle?

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Re: This seriously sucks...

The fact he is still wanted by interpol perhaps? Meaning he can not visit any other country. If they were decent they would withdraw the interpol arrest warrant.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This seriously sucks...

I wish our government (US) would just leave the poor guy alone. He's been through hell

Yeah poor Gary. Committing and admitting to a serious crime and not serving any jail time. Hell is an understatement

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Mushroom

Re: This seriously sucks...

Tell you what: I'll worry about punishing Gary for his "serious crime" on the very same day I start seeing perp-walks by the CEOs, presidents and board members of all the 5 largest banks that caused the failure of the global economy in 2008.

Moron!

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Special Snowflake

Is there any example of extradition being refused in England and Wales and granted in Scotland? I will eat my hat if the answer to this is 'Yes'. Even if there is an example of this, does anybody seriously think that the Scottish Government would grand extradition when Teresa May didn't? Of course not. In that case, why on earth is GM actually drawing attention to this 'problem', when nobody would otherwise know or care?

Gary McKinnon should accept that he won his extradition battle and leave it at that.

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Childcatcher

Re: Special Snowflake

"Is there any example of ... "

If they tried there would first have to be an application to the Procurator Fiscal Service and persuade them that Gary McKinnon was resident in Scotland. Then there is the matter of applying legislation retrospectively in Scotland -- he was investigated (and no case found) for this alleged crime by the English police in 2001. Following that it would be referred back to the Home Secretary because:

"As extradition is a reserved matter the Home Office has overall responsibility for the extradition policy of the UK. " -- scotland.gov.uk

" ... why on earth is GM actually drawing attention to this ... "

The Guardian article makes much reference to Gary McKinnons new SEO business. So I guess this story emanates from a press release whose principle aim is promoting the business, and pushing his web site up the search engine ranks.

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Joke

Drive a few miles south...

... tweet "on way to holiday in Penzance! #Suckers"... turn around, drive due north a few hundred miles...

Unless I missed the bit about requiring to go through customs when you visit Scotland (from England).

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Re: Drive a few miles south...

Customs of Scotland do check you when you leave Scotland, to ensure you have the required amount of whisky, haggis, and porridge. If you don't, they force a White Heather Club DVD on you.

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