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back to article PayPal mudslingfest TELEVISED: Icahn and Donahoe go on telly

The fight between activist investor Carl Icahn and eBay over the fate of PayPal has hit the media, after Icahn claimed that he'd "never seen worse corporate governance" at another firm. Speaking to CNBC television, Icahn criticised the firm's governance policy and also said that eBay chief exec John Donahoe shouldn't have …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some of the things 1chan says may be true. Much like Microsoft is unravelling, eBay would unravel if there was a number of seriously good alternative auction sites.

    eBay's continued success is largely due to it being the first point of call for auctions.

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    1. Neil 8
      Reply Icon

      And..

      > eBay's continued success is largely due to it being the first point of call for auctions.

      And it will remain the only point of call, thanks to owning ALL of the patents relating to any online auction process.

      ALL of the patents.

      http://stks.freshpatents.com/EBAY-sym.php?max=2000

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And..

        Didn't realise they were covered by some patents.

        Even when there are alternatives to the big names, it doesn't mean someone won't come along and screw them up, Play.com for example.

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        1. Ole Juul
          Reply Icon

          Re: And..

          Even when there are alternatives to the big names, it doesn't mean someone won't come along and screw them up . . .

          And I sincerely hope someone does.

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  2. bigtimehustler

    Im glad eBay are taking this attitude with him, and just pretty much ignoring him. How on earth is a company that makes a large amount of its profits from the paypal side of the business going to let it go? Never mind that its so intrinsicly linked to a smooth ebay buying and selling experience, if they sell if they lose control over how smooth that integration can be. He's a total fool.

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    1. Tom 13
      Reply Icon

      @ bigtimehustler

      Ichan may be a total fool, but whether or not eBay loses by letting it go probably depends on how "letting it go" is structured. Certainly if it were spun to a competitor it would hurt them. On the other hand, if it were arranged in one of those "that corporation that contributes handsomely to our profits isn't actually part of our megacorp, honest guv" arrangements it might not.

      But to be honest, at this point, I'd be inclined to hang onto it just to spite Carl.

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  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Observation

    I had intended to make a witty observation about how this man attempts to infiltrate companies with relatively small shareholdings in the hope of taking them over from a very low capital base, raping them and exiting with an enormous profit - but Icahn't be bothered.

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    1. Spleen
      Reply Icon

      Re: Observation

      Donahoe've a cow, man.

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  4. Stevie

    Bah!

    "never seen worse corporate governance"

    Really? In backwards order of getting a clue then: MtGox, Radio Shack, Most of the US Car Manufacturing Industry, All Investment Banks, ICL, Wickmans Machine Tool Ltd.

    You could be forgiven for not knowing the last one, or that the UK once made machine tools.

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    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Bah!

      that the UK once made machine tools.

      Still does, the MTA (trade association) estimates for 2012 were "output of machine tools, cutting tools and tool/work-holding equipment gives a total of around £960 million, of which £835 million was exported" and "UK machine tool manufacturing businesses employed 6,100 people at the end of 2012; this compares with 5,800 at the same point in 2011."

      Not huge, but growing.

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      1. Stevie
        Reply Icon

        Re: Bah!

        So, only took , what, 35 years to bounce back?

        Good news for the UK manufacturing base then. It is a wise country that understands that it is in trouble if it can't sell machine tools to itself when no-one else wants 'em.

        I just saw that my local Long Island Railroad station is being turned into (yet) another retail mall and eatery nirvana. The fact that no-one has a job in that area, and it is regarded as so nasty people don't see it as a viable first choice of a place to leave an unattended car anyway hasn't deterred the developers.

        Who have "acquired" the commuter car park for the space needed. Since anyone who *does* use this new Destination Sordide will be vying for parking space with commuters already strapped for parking spaces as a result of the development, I predict annoyance and yet more upfuckery.

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    2. Someone Else Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Coat

      @Stevie: Re: Bah!

      Oh, and don't forget Trans-World Airlines (TWA). Say, wasn't the CEO at the time of its failure a feller named Carl Ichan?

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      1. Stevie
        Reply Icon

        Re: @Stevie: Bah!

        *nods* Airlines are pretty much the definition of an unworkable business model. Incredibly expensive transport sold so cheap you have to enter chapter eleven bankruptcy about every 5 years to make it "work".

        I'm often surprised at people who will get all over NASA's case about over-managing a project, yet every airport in the world is a demonstration of how much non-travel buggering around can be brought to bear on the business of going from A to B in a relatively straight line when people are really incentivized.

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  5. Arctic fox
    Flame

    Vultures are very interesting birds and........

    ......a damn sight more attractive than that gentleman.

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  6. Da Weezil

    Watching this situation from the UK.....

    I had to look twice... at a glance I misread it as Ichan being on CBBC.... pretty appropriate really.

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  7. Someone Else Silver badge
    WTF?

    I am NOT a financier...

    ...nor do I play one on TV. (Which is very likely a good thing, because I do like sleeping well at night, and I do like feeling clean when I step out of the shower.) So let me get this straight:

    Carl Ichan-fuck-up-any-company-Ichan-get-my-grubby-mits-on stated:

    [Ichan] criticised the sale of Skype to Andreessen's investor group, saying that it was an "indisputable fact" that the subsequent sale of the VoIP firm to Microsoft a year and a half later made the group $4bn richer.

    So an investor in the company is bitching about a strategic move that divested the company of a non-line-of-business subsidiary that made the company $4 Billion richer? And that's a bad thing?!?

    I guess I'll stick to SW Engineering, where stuff tends to be logic driven, and morons like Carl don't last very long.

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  8. ecofeco Silver badge

    Pot AND the kettle

    Icahn set the standard.

    If he gains control of PayPal, run away as fast as you can.

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    1. Stevie
      Reply Icon

      Re: Pot AND the kettle

      "If he gains control of PayPal, run away as fast as you can."

      Already did, years ago. For the life of me I do not understand why so many small UK businesses selling over ye web love PayPal the way they do. If PayPal is the only payment option, I'll live without whatever it is I fancied buying because buying stuff is why I have a credit card - which affords me various privileges and protections whereas PayPal are notorious for ducking behind the bushes when you need a word with them over a problem transaction.

      In my opinion, PayPal brought all the peace-of-mind to online buying that MtGOX brought to digital currency wallet management and security.

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  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    He'as a jerk

    IMO, Icahn is a jerk who invest in companies to gain enough leverage to unjustly enrich himself. He does this in one business after another where he gets in fights with the board because he wants them to pay more dividends than they have historically paid or to change their Biz model to suit Icahn. He thinks the world is here to serve his misguided beliefs but he is wrong and many a company is telling him so.

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    1. Chairo
      Reply Icon

      Re: He'as a jerk

      You described his business model quite well. On the other hand one of the main purposes of companies is to make money for their owners. One way to create this is to grow and get more and more wealthy, so the stocks price goes up. This works well for a company with a good business model in a growth market. In this case the money earned is best used by re-investing it to further grow the company.

      At some point the market might be satisfied and the growth slows down. Now the company has two options. Either try to find new business fields to invest all this money coming in, or starting handing out the cash to stock owners.

      CEOs usually go for the first option for various reasons. Investors might prefer the second option, however, as it is less risky.

      Icahns business model is to buy stocks of seemingly peaked out companies with lots of cash or other valuable assets and try to convince the other stockholders to cash out. Perhaps not a very nice business model, but at least he is not outright evil.

      Other "investors" are much worse, buying good companies, burdem them up to their neck with debt, rip them apart and sell off the pieces. Now, that is evil!

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  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    '"never seen worse corporate governance"

    What about the most draconian user-account-governance the world has ever seen? And this shower wants to be a global bank, strike that-- the first space bank?

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  11. Tony Rogers
    FAIL

    Saying things like this make out Bernie Madoff to be a bad person...or good person?

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