back to article North Korea to switch on the interwebs

North Korea has agreed to allow internet access within its borders, or at least within the bounds of an industrial park run jointly with firms from the South. Pyongyang officials have agreed to open a business centre in the Kaesong Industrial Complex in the first half of the year, which will initially house 20 internet- …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. Chairo
    Mushroom

    I suppose each single one of these 20 PC's will be secured with the North Korean version of a firewall - a Nork soldier, armed with a flame-thrower.

  2. xperroni
    Big Brother

    "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

    To be fair to the Norks, sometimes I wonder what's going on in the heads of their South counterparts as well.

    Take for example the news of the deal to allow families split across the border to meet at the border – from which the North might back off at any moment, what with the joint "exercise" the South and US armies are planning to do, ostensibly to prepare (against, for) an attack (from, on) the North (delete as desired).

    Really, what's so urgent about running around with guns that it couldn't be scheduled for after the meeting? Regardless the reason or whether the Norks' own actions can be taken as justifications for these muscle-flexing numbers, is it really so surprising they might be put off by the sight of armed troops playing D-day on the other side of the trench? The US troops could perfectly take the wait, it isn't like their wars are going anywhere anyway.

    People love to call on the North for their many, undeniable faults; but really, when their purportedly peace-loving and level-headed neighbors can't postpone their annual joint military dick-waving fair for the sake of a goodwill mission, we cannot say it's all their fault either, can we?

    1. P_0

      Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

      Regardless the reason or whether the Norks' own actions can be taken as justifications for these muscle-flexing numbers, is it really so surprising they might be put off by the sight of armed troops playing D-day on the other side of the trench?

      What could the US/SK troops be preparing for? Hmmm.

      I can't imagine. Presumably they want to deter the NK regime from shelling SK civilians, which it does on occassion, or sinking SK warships. The USA and SK have actually been incredibly restrained, considering after the sinking of the Cheonan

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking

      they were within rights (remember they are still at war) to bomb the living hell out of NK military positions.

      But it's all the USA's fault, of course. That's the post-Iraq narrative that everyone likes to spout, forgetting what is actually happening in the world. For 6 decades the only thing standing between SK and a totalitarian nightmare has been the US marine corp ad SK military.

      The US troops could perfectly take the wait, it isn't like their wars are going anywhere anyway.

      No they couldn't. Military training exercises are planned months in advance and cost a lot of money.

      1. xperroni

        Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

        they were within rights (remember they are still at war) to bomb the living hell out of NK military positions.

        Yes, when they have reason to attack they hold back, when they have the chance to talk they wave rifles. It's almost as if they wanted to keep this state of affairs indefinitely, without resolution one way or another, isn't it?

        No they couldn't. Military training exercises are planned months in advance and cost a lot of money.

        Yes, military training costs a lot of money.

        You know what costs a lot more money?

        War.

        So it would make sense to postpone a military exercise if it increased the chances of avoiding actual conflict, wouldn't it?

        Then again, this was the point I was trying to make in the first place – how sense (common or otherwise) seems to be absent from both sides at times.

        1. P_0

          Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

          Yes, when they have reason to attack they hold back, when they have the chance to talk they wave rifles. It's almost as if they wanted to keep this state of affairs indefinitely, without resolution one way or another, isn't it?

          No. Not at all. SK has been trying to open up relations with NK. Everytime NK resorts to threats (laughable, maybe, but threats none the less), and occassionally breaking the terms of the ceasefire (60 year old ceasefire). And let's not forget that it routinely threatens nuclear war against SK, the USA and even Japan, and has even fired "warning" missiles into the Sea of Japan. There is only one destabilizing force in East Asia and that is NK. Even China is washing its hands of the country.

          The US-SK military exercises are legitimate, and let's not forget these are annual exercises, not some special show of force, and this is not a matter of "dick-waving", but of security.

          1. xperroni

            Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

            There is only one destabilizing force in East Asia and that is NK.

            I'm sorry, have you been following the news about East Asia recently?

            Little things like China's unilaterally declared new air identification zone? You know, the one that nicely pairs up with their claims to islands in the area?

            Or that Japan cannot so much as express its intention to step up for its allies without the South Korean government acting pissed?

            Yes, the Norks are governed by a bunch of deranged fools that push it every other day – but then the people around aren't models of common sense exactly.

            The US-SK military exercises are legitimate, and let's not forget these are annual exercises, not some special show of force, and this is not a matter of "dick-waving", but of security.

            I know I didn't spell it, but can't you figure on your own that's part of the reason postponing it would be a gesture of goodwill, at a moment when negotiations are taking place?

    2. WonkoTheSane
      Mushroom

      Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

      If the South were to delay the exercises were until after the scheduled "reunion", even money says that the Norks would delay the reunion until it once again coincided with the military exercises.

    3. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

      xperroni,

      Those excercises were planned in advance. Probably years in advance, as these things tend to be. North Korea were notified that these exercises would take place - so as not to surprise them. Also many months ago. They're part of annual exercises.

      So no, they can't just postone them to be all nice and fluffy. The North knew the exercises would happen when they agreed the deal. It's more likely that they only agreed to concessions in order to threaten to cancel them again if they didn't get some extra diplomatic sweeties. It's probably their aim to try and make exercises unacceptable, by causing trouble every time they happen in hopes that the South Korean electorate will fall for their bullshit and blame the government of the South for tension over normal military training - rather than the North. If they can find sufficient fools to buy their propaganda.

      You have to train troops, in order for them to be effective. You also have to train officers and HQs - which is why you have large-scale exercises every so often.

      The South has been pursuing peace talks and de-escalation with the North for the last umpy years. If the North are worried about tension, and too much military build-up they have the answer available to them. Not keeping 10,000 - 20,000 artillery and rocket launchers trained on Seoul might help. Or randomly shelling or sending commandos across the border. Or threatening a nuclear war...

      1. xperroni

        Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

        I ain't Spartacus,

        I really ain't.

        I also ain't got no idea why you're all so attached to those exercises. Yes, they're a perfectly reasonable and justifiable operation, and South Korea has been real nice and upfront about it. Why, they've even brought the Americans along – we all know those guys aren't likely to start a shootout without very good reason now, are they?

        Hey, maybe you're right, they're right, and that's all that matters. I mean, they're a sovereign country operating within their own borders, sure nobody can fault them, right? Right? Just like, oh I don't know – the Cubans had the right to furnish their own country with whatever defense systems they deemed necessary? That certainly looked plenty reasonable for everyone, didn't it?

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

          Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

          xperroni,

          OK, OK. I get it. You don't like Americans. I suggest you get over it.

          There's been no Cold War for nearly 25 years. Yet the US has kept forces in South Korea in order to help keep the peace. They've also been involved in negotiations to try to pursuade the North to de-escalate. They've given large amounts of humanitarian aid to help during the famine in the North in the 1990s. They haven't been provoking the North by attacking over the border. That's been the North's job. They've been involved in multi-lateral negotations, including China - to try to settle things down.

          Whatever your opinion of US diplomacy and policy in general, there's nothing to see here. The US have nothing to be ashamed of in their Korean policy. Either under, Clinton, Bush or Obama. Possibly Clinton was too generous with aid, given than the North broke the deal and carried on nuclear development - but it was the policy of the South Korean government to try and warm up releations with the North, and it was probably worth a try. And they were having an enormous famine at the time.

          I'm not attached to these exercises in particular. I just have some understanding of diplomacy. A lot of it is about framing the question. The government in the North want to try and frame all questions so as to say the South and the US are the aggressors (which they aren't and have never been in the whole history of the 2 states), and so that everything must lead to concessions to the North. Currently it's a sustained attack on military exercises. Every country with a military (including North Korea) has them. You have to have them, in order to have an effective military. South Korea needs an effective military since it's under threat of invasion from the North. Not only do the North spend all available resources on their military, they continually threaten to invade.

          Therefore the South cannot allow the North to dictate when exercises will take place. Otherwise it will be never. The North are trying to frame the debate to make normal military activities look aggressive. i.e. use diplomatic pressure to reduce readiness. It would be stupid to acceded to such demands.

          Whenever deals are made with the North, they break them. So you just keep on making deals, and hoping some of them go through. And hope the regime eventually changes for the slightly better. Maybe they'll become more pragmatic. What you can't do, is dance to their tune.

          1. Ted Treen
            Big Brother

            Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

            @I ain't Spartacus

            "...What you can't do, is dance to their tune..."

            Quite correct; there's a name for doing so: appeasement.

            Lots of us Brits remember last time we tried appeasement on a large scale.

            Munich 1938.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              > Lots of us Brits remember last time we tried appeasement on a large scale

              To be an utter pedant, it's only the 80+ year-olds that remember it in the strong sense of recalling an experience within one's timeframe, but certainly many bear the example in mind.

              But the lesson perhaps runs a little deeper - the thing with 1938 is that Chamberlain had no useful military option, so it wasn't so much an overall policy of appeasement as making a virtue of necessity (and necessity existed on the German side too - they were well aware that their military lead would erode with the progressive re-armament of Allied Nations so if the gamble was ever to be taken it was the right moment for it). So far we don't seem to have devised a better answer than the combination of maintaining a credible deterrence with engagement - si vis pacem, para bellum coupled to "if goods don't cross borders then soldiers will". And in that respect North Korea is a tougher and more isolated nut than Nazi Germany.

        2. Daniel B.

          Re: "[N]othing is ever straightforward"

          Cuba is a bad example for your point, dude. Cuba was a USSR counter to the US putting up a similar thing in Turkey and thus within the USSR's spitting range. So the Soviets simply went 'Oh yeah? Well, we'll do the same in Cuba!". Both sides ended up negotiating to dismantle both systems, the US would dismantle the Turkey one, while the USSR would dismantle the Cuban one.

          The US doesn't have a shining record on international negotiations, and Dubya's tenure probably shot whatever goodwill towards the US was left in the world (decades of CIA ops shot it decades ago in most of Latin America). But in the Koreas, the US does not want to re-engage in hostilities against NK at all, for the same reason they didn't during the USSR's existence: there's a good chance that a US/SK first strike into NK will trigger a Chinese counterattack. Unlike the NK, China actually has nukes and long-range strike capability. And well, all those shiny gadgets are being made over there, so the economic incentive not to piss off China is also strong. Also, Obama is trying very hard to shun the warmongering US image that his predecessor bestowed upon the US.

          On the other hand, if NK decides to go stupid and attack South Korea, it would be really bloody … but there's a good chance China won't interfere. Some analysts have concluded that such a war would eventually be won by South Korea, but at the cost of thousands (probably millions) of lives.

  3. Ketlan
    Black Helicopters

    Maybe/maybe not...

    “Considering the fact that workers there have to communicate via phone or fax machines to those in the South, the internet linkage will boost efficiency, cut costs, and guarantee security.”

    Boost efficiency - check

    Cut costs - check

    Guarantee security - erm...

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: Maybe/maybe not...

      What do you mean, boost efficiency? Giving the staff access to the internet Facebook and personal email will see efficiency plummet!

      It's probably a cunning plan. The complex is part of the South's seemingly doomed attempt at de-escalation and negotiation with the loonies in the Nork government. The downside is that it gives them loads of foreign currency to spend on goodies, bribes and military stuff. So by making the workers less efficient, they get the same amount of the former, for less of the latter.

  4. Electric Panda

    North Korea was apparently advertising BGP routes at one point. There is full Internet connectivity which may still be going through China, but possibly not, and within North Korea itself (i.e. not Kaesong) only a very select few high ranking officials have access - even then it's monitored heavily. It seems only the Kim family and their close inner circle have totally unrestricted and unmonitored access.

    Did anyone see that BBC Panorama about the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology (PUST) recently? It already offers completely unfettered access to the Internet... however, it's monitored not by technology but a woman sat in a chair. You have to say in advance which websites you want to visit and pretty much everything is forbidden, especially foreign news and social networks.

    You'd think they would have hooky Blue Coat or some other kind of filtering/proxy, but apparently not. I reckon it's deliberately designed to promote Chinese-style self-censorship out of fear.

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like