back to article Inside Steve Ballmer’s fondleslab rear-guard action

Windows 8 is going down like a bucket of cold sick - but you're going to have to get used to it. It's not going away. If Microsoft has a future, this is it. Worse still, if you're a pro, you're going to have to support the thing. Microsoft had to make this desperate, poorly integrated attempt to foist a Version 1.0 touchscreen …

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  1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    So that's one fondleslab

    And all the data I need when I'm not on the web?

    I suspect that folk who need portability and don't use the slab as an entertainment device will still be slinging laptops with real screen and respectable storage for another three or four weeks yet.

    1. mmiied

      Re: So that's one fondleslab

      the foldle slab will have a 500gb non volatile memory cache on the chip and it will cache your docs the whole process will be invisible to the user only us techies will know now it works the same way Users do not know how DNS works or IP packet routing

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: So that's one fondleslab

        It will also dump your usage history to the NSA silo once connectivity is back and you won't worry about it.

        1. Ted Treen
          Boffin

          Re: So that's one fondleslab

          I was a sales support techie in 1980 for Burroughs Computers. All salesmen (Burroughs & others) repeated the mantras regarding "The paperless office".

          Most of them even believed it...

          So, pardon me if almost 35 years later, as I sit surrounded by printers & reams of paper, I say when I hear comments like "touchscreen phones and tablets are going to replace the personal computer" my thoughts are along the lines of "We'll see:- time will tell..."

          1. mmeier

            Re: So that's one fondleslab

            Paperless - not yet, there are some dinosaurs left that insist on printed stuff.

            Very little paper - yes. A nice Windows tablet pc with Wacom pen replaced A4 college blocks, postIt notes etc. almost completely. And being Windows the notes taken are easily shared with basically every Windows PC (all since Vista, XP needs to download a viewer).

            At 12'' (privat) and 13''(company) the units are "close enough" to DIN A4 paper for all practical purposes. And if I need more screen - docking station and I have a core-i based workstation. In the conference room it is WIDI to the beamer / conference call screen and notes are taken using the tablet pc rather than a flipchart.

            1. Bootman

              Re: So that's one fondleslab

              > Paperless - not yet, there are some dinosaurs left that insist on printed stuff.

              I'm not in theory against a paperless office, but such dinosaurs include every single company I have ever worked at, anyone sending me post, (be it banks, government, friends, family, insurance companies, and junk mail), computer companies who supply instructions on paper, railways and airlines, (when getting journey print outs and tickets), garages (MOT certificate), the local police (reporting crime), I could go on...

              I don't forsee a paperless world for the majority of us in my lifetime. I'll believe it when printers stop being sold to the general public.

            2. proud2bgrumpy

              Re: So that's one fondleslab

              Ah yes, the Paperless office - the first environmentalist led *eco-revolution* - insisting that we stop cutting down trees to make recyclable/reusable paper (the only storage medium that is proven to last many 100's of years with no continued energy requirements and is beaten only by stone/clay carved tablets which have portability / re-usability limitations) in favour of cutting down trees and burning them to store them magnetically in file and media formats that are unlikely to last a couple of decades.

              I remember at Junior School consigning a batch of 5.25" Floppy Disks into a Time Capsule to be opened in the year 2078 - nobody thought to include a Floppy Disk Drive as well (BTW - anyone remember Wordstar?) - what a disappointment that will be in 65 years - still, I'm sure the photos, drawings and hand-written letters will be just fine.

              I guess therefore that Cloud is the answer, if all the data is held online in the various equivalents of Google Docs, then the assumption is that the document formats will be updated along with the apps that created them.

              Tablets are good for content consumption, Laptops/PCs are good for content creation. Most users only need a Tablet/SmartPhone to cyber bully their friends on Bacefook / buy stuff on eBay / view porn - until recently their only choice was a low spec PC which 90% of users barely understood how to use. Tablets allow people [who shouldn't be able to] use technology to continue their cyber-bullying / online purchases / porn-viewing with minimum time invested in learning or knowledge of the underlying tech.

              Truth is M$ probably got the right idea - unify their UIs for Content Creators and Content Users with a single Metro/WinPhone/Win8 GUI - problem is the change has been too radical, too fast and too high-handed. Users rightly feel they've been rail-roaded into an unfamiliar GUI and don't want to re-learn core apps (jeeze I still set my WindowsXP, Windows7 GUIs to 'Windows Classic' ie Windows 95). Whereas with Android/iOS devices, we have had the choice of buying into a new GUI and device formfactor.

              If M$ had only dual-skinned Windows8 with the classic Windows/GUI for keyboard operation and Metro for tablets operation, it would have been a very different story - instead they just gave us another Vista. Now they're not only late to the party, but they've brought the wrong bottle of wine.

              Oh yes, the second environmentalist *victory* was to resist Nuclear in favour of burning still more trees (surely they were anti-coal/gas too), so environmentalists all over the world - just admit that you are the cause of 'Man Made Global Warming' ;-)

              Nah! - only kidding, now we all know that MMGW->GlobalWarming->Climate Change is really just a 'research-grant-grabbing' way of bringing attention to 'The Weather', we don't blame you for anything (other than windfarms of course)

          2. Sporkinum

            Re: So that's one fondleslab

            Cool, though the Burroughs I started out on was already obsolete when I was an operator on it. A B3500. Punch cards, head per track drives, and chain-train printer.

          3. StevieBee

            Re: So that's one fondleslab

            They are replacing the PC as much as digital books are replacing hard copies. PC's have advantages that portable touchscreens don't such as better hardware for games, media manipulating, animation rendering, or any other CPU heavy programs, not to mention more sizable disk space storage. Also many people just like to sit down at a desk and have a big screen, keyboard, and mouse without needing to unplug/dock anything. Just like some people prefer a hard copy of a book.

            While they may take a market share away from PC's, they will never completely replace them because of these advantages the demand for PC's will still be sizable for a very long time to come.

    2. Mikel

      Re: So that's one fondleslab

      Microsoft Office XP system requirements:

      Single core processor at 0.133 GHz minimum. 0.4 GHz recommended.

      RAM 0.024 GB (OS) + 0.008 GB (Office)

      Storage 0.21 to 0.26 GB

      Display 640x480 (vga) minimum, 1280x1024 (svga) recommended

      Methinks my Nexus 7 with ~80x those specs and 5x the display should be able to fondle a document just fine. I don't use any features they've added since. I've added a bluetooth KB/Mouse combo and a cable for the 55" display.

      1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

        Re: So that's one fondleslab

        XP on a tenth the requirements of a nexus 7 could do something magical that fondle fruit just can't: multitask.

        Real multitasking. Where multiple applications and documents can overlap, easily exchange information, you can look at one and type into the other or track multiple items subconsciously (such as file transfer bars) while working on something else. Really useful for making video editing, audio editing, photo editing, any writing that requires research, development or so on and so forth not a gigantic agony of assery.

        With a tenth the specs. Productivity = profit.

        1. proud2bgrumpy

          Re: So that's one fondleslab

          Nope - I don't know about iOS (don't have one) but Android is Linux, so it MultiTasks way better than XP (or indeed any M$ Operating System ever has) - The apparent single-task nature of a SmartPhone / Tablet is entirely a GUI choice and the form factor of the screen you have available to you

          1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

            @proud2bgrumpy

            What is the point of a multitasking-capable OS if the UI - and all the associated coded libraries and applications - can't and won't multiask? The ability to flick a slider to switch between one task a time isn't multitasking, either.

      2. Robert E A Harvey

        Re: So that's one fondleslab

        >1280x1024 (svga) recommended

        And yet they flogged us all those x600 or x768 screens!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So that's one fondleslab

      You have to look at the money trail. This concept of 'no serviceable parts' comes from many sectors. First there is no reason for a battery being non-replaceable other than greed. As an example, Apple lap tops will be coming with no user serviceable parts, such as batteries. They have glued the ram, battery, and everything else in hopes you won't mind shelling a couple of grand out every two years or so. Especially as this article says, processor speed increases are coming to an upper limit. So if computer companies are to exist, they must force users to upgrade frequently, even though there is no real reason to! Microsoft has released Windows 8 in hopes to increase income. But as it has been seen, that hasn't occurred. Why? Most corporations have a lot of money invested in software and the existing system serves it purpose. That is why the question is asked 'Why incure the expense of upgrading to Windows 7 or 8 from XP when our current system meets the needs and upgrades will be tramatic? But as Microsoft has seen, just dropping Windows XP support and curtailing Windows 7 sales won't save them. So to force upgrades, they must make hardware that is totally unrepairable. Right now, when my P4 computer has problems, due to open hardware, I can easily find cmos batteries, hard drives, upgrade memory, replace cpu's or cpu fans and power supplies. In short, this computer can last a long time yet. So this whole issue isn't as much about providing better faster service to the consumer of computer products as it is in forcing people to upgrade whether they need to or not. Even changing consumer computers to light client to cloud OS's will provide a ton of revenue that wouldn't exist in a stand alone pc.

    4. kmac499

      Re: So that's one fondleslab

      My first serious desktop Win-Computer back in '91 had a huuuge 200Mb hard drive.. (Yes MB not Gb)

      My two year old phone has 4Gb internal and is currenty sporting an 8Gb postage stamp memory card

      My newest tablet has 16Gb internal and 16Gb Postage stamp.

      Yes my laptop\netbook has a 500Gb hard disk mostly unused to date..

      What do I really need on tap and immediately available..? That I can't carry with me now let alone next year.

  2. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

    No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

    I am not ready for a post-productivity input paradigm. I am too old and set in my ways to make the jump. Touch is a consumptive design method. I can't think of myself as "just another consumer." So I'll keep keyboards and precision pointers around. I'll use old tech if I have to. I'll even exit IT and look for a new career as a writer.

    These young pups can have their Microsoft Tiles 8.11 for fondlegroups. I'll resign myself to being one of the few who create, not consume...even if that makes me anathema to the hoi polloi and the digital hipsters of the new millenium.

    WIMP works well with how my brain works. Search doesn't, commandline doesn't and one-thing-at-a-time swipy fondle groping doesn't either.

    Fondleslabs and Kinects may well be the future of the endpoint. PowerShell may well be the future of the admin. If so, I'll be cast adrift with no interface to call my own, no device that works well for the way my brain processes information.

    That's okay. The older I get, the less I care. I can, in fact, live happily without needing up-to-date computers and the approval of the internet. Eventually, the pendulum will come back 'round, and they'll realise that people like me are an "untapped market." Just like the CLI saw a resurgance, I expect the post-post-productivity computer design to be a productivity-based one once more.

    I'll spend my retirement with computers that don't suck. In the interim, I'll spend my time makeing the stuff the young fondleslabbers consume. On my desktop, laptop and netbook.. My old, oudated, GET OFF MY GODDAMNED LAWN machines.

    And I'll charge the poxy whoreson hipsterati through the nose to access my content, too.

    Ta.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

      "Touch is a consumptive design method IMNSHO."

      TFTFY

      1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

        Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

        Prove me wrong.

        Have a large group of individuals create quality multimedia; writing, touched up photos, audio, video, quality code, animation, 3d design and more on both fondleslabs and desktops. Let them have access to any software or hardware they desire for the devices, but restrict input methods on the next-gen types to touch and voice only.

        Now, how long does it take the average individual to create finished works of equal quality based on devices of each input paradigm? When you can prove that the majority of people - or even the small subset of non-linguistic thinkers I belong to - can produce better quality works, faster by using touch, arm waving and voice then I will give fucks.

        Until then, it's just the gnashing of teeth and the wailing of hipsters. I demand evidence...what I've seen thus far makes touch an inherently consuptive input methodology. That is not just my personal experience, it is looking at large quantites of research on the topic by well-funded scientists.

        So...prove that this is "just my opinion" by doing the hard work to prove me wrong.

        ...you can prove it, can't you?

        1. Necronomnomnomicon

          Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

          This only works if you assume tablets can't have additional inputs accessories. Which isn't true now, and will be less true in future.

          Right now, tablets are mostly consumptive because the people building stuff are still using their desktop PCs and that's where most of the tools are. But, aside from equivalent software not existing for iOS and Android yet (and it almost certainly will come eventually), what can a desktop PC or laptop do that a tablet with a bluetooth keyboard can't?

          The model means that manufacturers can sell their cheapy tablet or their very fancy tablet, and the people who need a little bit more can pay a little bit more. Like they did when mice first came into existence. Chip away

          I'm not advocating jumping to tablet+detachable keyboard right now. But as the software arrives, it's going to be harder to maintain that position.

          1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

            Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

            I have tablets with keyboards and mice. They are univ3rsally crap. They are nowhere near as productive as a real PC. Next.

            1. Necronomnomnomicon

              Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

              "I have tablets with keyboards and mice. They are univ3rsally crap. They are nowhere near as productive as a real PC. Next."

              They're crap NOW. How much of that is because tablet software is still in it's infancy?

              A tablet is a PC with different software, a touchscreen and without a keyboard and mouse. If you add a keyboard and mouse back in then the only thing that's different is the software and a bonus input. Software improves over time if there's demand, so assuming tablets don't suddenly become hugely unpopular then the software will only get better.

              The only thing I think tablets are missing is the ability to do multiple displays like a PC. Most users don't use it, but it's marvellous.

              1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

                Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                I don't believe software for tablets will get "better" unless they become WIMP PCs. The underlying theory of usage is just so different. Consumption based, not productivity based. In mofetn fondlefuckery keuboards and mice are fifth-class input methods. Behind grunting and rolling your penis around on the screen.

                An evolution into a productivity-based device would so fundementally alter their OS and app designs, APIs, basic rules of use, etc that they br a different class of device...the aformentionned post-post-productivity PCs that re-embreace productivity.

                We're at lrast a decade away from that. Probably two. This is not an "around the corner" evolution. Fondlecrap isn't going to magically gain proper multitasking, arbitrarily resizable, overlappable app spaces or other goodness frequently used by professional content creators.

                It's crap today. All signs point to it being even worse crap tomorrow. "It might suck less some day so IT'S THE FUTURE" convinces me of nothing. Show me proof, with today's purchasable tech, as described above. Other2wise you're blowing smoke.

                Go ask OQO about redefining the future. It's inevitable, you see.

                In3vitale.

              2. mmeier

                Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                Just use the right tablet (pc) and the units can do multi monitor. Since the last decade actually. Because - all WINDOWS tablets are at the core x86 based PC with a full powered OS. Surface/Pro, Sony Tab 11, Fujitsu Q-Series etc. - they all can drive multi monitors, many have a docking station just like a high end notebook (That they are from the hardware PoV). What they offer is an extra amount of flexibility because I can leave dock, mouse and keyboard behind and still have a useable device for conference rooms or customer meeting. Or for attending a conference and taking notes - I don't need to balance my unit on my knees ever afraid it might drop - mine is handled like an A4 college block and pen

                It's only the toy breeds from Apple or VEB Plaste and Elaste that can't do it properly. Even in the rare case ("Note series") that they have a proper inductive digitizer the support software is still a piece of shit compared to what Windows has OOTB.

                1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

                  Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                  Windows tablets have shit battery life and gave up on having a proper multitasking OS for that bullshit 8.11 for Fondlegroups "two things at a time, tops" crapfest.

                  Windows tablets are just as much post-productivity devices as iTat. Not that I'd expect a fairly proven brand tribalist like you to be capable of understanding such concepts. URG SAYS LURV MICROSOFT

                  UG, UG. MICROSOFT.

                  1. mmeier

                    Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                    Windows tablets have shit battery life and gave up on having a proper multitasking OS for that bullshit 8.11 for Fondlegroups "two things at a time, tops" crapfest.

                    Windows tablets are just as much post-productivity devices as iTat. Not that I'd expect a fairly proven brand tribalist like you to be capable of understanding such concepts. URG SAYS LURV MICROSOFT

                    UG, UG. MICROSOFT.

                    ===

                    Oh come on Mr Potts, not that STUPID AND OBVIOUS LIES! again. Thankfully it seems the Reg no longer lets you write "Articles" yet the still give you a platform to spout your "truth" that has not been true for quite some time now.

                    Thinkpad Tablet 2, Dell Lat 10 => 9+ hours

                    Surface Pro/2 => 7+ hours

                    Sony Vaio Duo 13 => 7+ hours

                    Eat that and choke on your likes Troller

                    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

                      Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                      Oh, look, it's your bullshit made up manufacturer's numbers again. And your mistaken belief that 8ish hours is acceptable battery life. You're not only wrong, you're also a douchenozzle too!

                      And I do intend to enjoy my likes.

                      Perhaps when you're done spreading lies you can get some likes of your very own.

                      XOXOXO

                      --Trevor

                      P.S. So far as I know I published an article today on The Register. Maybe you missed it. It was about Microsoft. Snoochie Boochies.

                      1. mmeier

                        Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                        Initially this was a reply to Troller Potts. Then I realised the moron is not worth it. So I changed it

                        1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

                          Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                          Took you long enough, mmeier. You actually require proof to change my mind. Not assertions, claims, lies, damned lies and misinterpreted statistics. And the proof on the table is twofold:

                          1) Windows 8 is selling "like a bucket of cold sick."

                          2) Trolling you is a hilarious way for me to spend a friday after a shitty week.

                          Actually, I'll add another item: HA HA.

                          You'll never convince anyone of your marketing tripe because you're an enormously condescending douche. Even if you were peddling a cure for cancer nobody would want anything to do with it because it was associated with you. You denigrate any brand that you associate your personal sense of self-worth to by virtue of douching it up to everyone. You are, for all intents and purposes, the anti-salesman.

                          Now, I can be just as douchy, but when I do so I am typically not trying to sell someone to someone. Usually I'm unwinding after a long day/week/project/what-have-you by winding other people up. I use hyperbole and colourful metaphors to present an extreme view of something that is quite transparently grounded in truth.

                          It gets a chuckle out of those who recognize the truth. It gets a hearty belly-laugh out of those who recognize the truth in what I'm saying, the grey area around the edges of what I'm saying and enjoy the fact that I'm trolling the fanboys of $whatever_I'm_taking_the_piss_out_of. Said fanboys, however, get their panties all in a knot and provide free entertainment for the masses by being butthurt on the internet.

                          Hurray!

                          Perhaps, for you own sanity, you should consider not taking criticism of a company and products so personally. We get that you like it. You may even have Ballmer's smiling face on a Microsoft Logo background tatooed on your penis. Congratulations, I'm glad you found something to identify with.

                          But it's just a company, dude. They're just products. It's not the be-all and end-all of the fucking universe here. Microsoft fucked up this round. More to the point, they pissed off a lot of formerly loyal people. Some, like myself, used to be staunch evangelists.

                          They fucked up by not meeting our requirements. In fact, not only did they not met our requirements, they outright rejected those requirements twice in a row. Microsoft know what we want, they just don't care.

                          And they're paying the price for it right now.

                          The fact that point this out gets you all hot and bothered probably means you need some help, buddy. Serious, honest-to-gods help. I have an anxiety disorder. I know how bad it can get. You really, truly need to get your head read because your fixation with this stuff just isn't healthy.

                          Some back-and-forth on the interbutts between friends is one thing, but you're into "unhealthy obsession" territory. Disconnect. Log off. Go meet some people and realize that, at the end of the day, this is all just stuff. It's just a fucking computer. It's just some goddamned software. People will buy what meets their personal needs...why do you need to care if they buy your favourite brand? Why do other people have to change their requirements and desires to be just like yours? What is it that fuels this obsession you have with reshaping the whole world in your own image?

                          Life's too short to actually get wound over any of it, man. Chill the fuck out.

                          Peace.

                        2. hplasm
                          Gimp

                          Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                          Are you six, mmeier?

                          Jeez.

                          1. Bootman

                            Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                            Well they say Windows 8 dumbs down the user...

                  2. Sean Timarco Baggaley

                    Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                    "Windows tablets [...] gave up on having a proper multitasking OS for that bullshit 8.11 for Fondlegroups "two things at a time, tops" crapfest."

                    You've clearly never actually used a Surface Pro then. See that tile that looks like desktop wallpaper? There's your WIMP GUI right there, same as it always was. Everything Windows 7 can do, Windows 8 can do too. In some instances, it even does it a bit faster. You can even get two types of cover with integrated keyboards in them. I'm writing this on a three-year-old MacBook Pro, but even I'm seriously tempted by a Windows 8 (not "RT", which is definitely too half-baked) machine. It's a solid OS that does everything Windows 7 can do. And it even has a nice, shiny, app launcher. Granted, the latter doesn't appear to be to everyone's taste, but I found the old menu system a pain to use – mice are a major cause of RSI problems in a way trackpads aren't.

                    What we're seeing isn't the death of the WIMP metaphor, but its sidelining into niche markets as the vast majority of computers these days really aren't being used for much more than email, Facetwit and web browsing.

                    I'm a mild-mannered translator by day and have found my iPad invaluable for dictionaries and reference works. In my business, that's not "consuming", it's a real, actual, bona-fide work tool. When I upgraded my old Mk. 1 to a Mk. 3 iPad, it paid for itself in just under two weeks. I haven't bought a printed book or magazine since my first iPad, in 2010, and I can't say I miss them.

                    Liam's one and only mistake with his article was in not adding "Your mileage may vary" at the end.

                    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

                      Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                      We're not seeing a mere "sidelining" of productivity-based interfaces, but their active persecution and destruction. Microsoft have no commitment to maintaining them, or - frankly - to their professional users. The GUI in Windows 8 is totally inadequate, period. It's made even more so by the quite obvious gutting of it in order to force the world towards their preferred "new hotness" of Metro Monotasking "Fuck You Pro Users!" UI.

                      I have no problem if they want to include Metro for those who prefer to pay at their consumption devices like primitives. But gutting the productivity UI in order to do so was asinine. Failing to address the issue in subsequent revisions (to say nothing of banning productivity applications on a productivity UI from the Windows store) only demonstrated their long term goal to refuse all computing to the lowest common denominator.

                      You may enjoy slanted foreheads mewling at flat glass and wishing desperately they had something as productive as burnt sticks and a cave wall, but I do rather prefer getting shit done.

                  3. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                    iTat? Freetard prick. Might I suggest that the lack of accuracy in the keyboard is down to the PoS ripped off Samesung device you are using.

                    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

                      Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                      iTat. I take it, anonymous coward, that your venomous reaction means you are an iTit? Or it that an iGit? Don't bother answering, I wouldn't want you to have to shake yourself out of you iStupor.

                      Don't think, just buy. iTat: for those who desperately need to be different and unique...just like everyone else.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

            This only works if you assume tablets can't have additional inputs accessories

            .. which means they then become the equivalent of a laptop, so that IMHO not the right argument.

            I have a desktop, because it stays at home. I have a laptop which is either hooked up to my home kit or travels with me, and I have an iPad. The latter I use mainly to either read email (consume, not author - I 100% agree with Trevor here), quick presentations and for quickly architecting things and drawings because it's basically more useful than the Wacom tablet I have (because screen and digitiser are one). I may actually buy a pressure sensitive pen for it at some point.

            But when it comes to creating, writing, combining things - the too simple tablet UI gets in the way in the same way that the Microsoft ribbon forced me to move to LibreOffice to retain productivity. I know most of the things I need by heart and can select them at speed via the keyboard or command line, which is something you learn over time. No can do on a tablet (also because an onscreen keyboard is no touch-typing match for a physical one).

          3. bozoid

            Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

            > what can a desktop PC or laptop do that a tablet with a bluetooth keyboard can't?

            Well, I have fifteen windows open right now. Seven of them are code (gvim), since I'm coding, three are PDFs (specifications and reference material), two are file browser (on two servers) and the rest are Web browser windows (StackOverflow et al). Each browser window has multiple open tabs. I shuffle everything around as needed to minimize eye travel and alt-tabbing to support my thought process.

            Can your tablet OS show this many things at the same time? Can you resize each if necessary to show just the bits that are relevant at a given moment? If not, I'm not interested.

            I *do* have a table, which I use for YouTube, e-reading, and e-mail. I can't imagine doing REAL coding on it.

          4. Eeep !

            Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

            So in the future we'll have people using external keyboards, external mice, external graphics tablets, and possibly external gesture controls which all need to be lugged around to where the tablet is to be used. Hurrah - the wheel being re-invented!

            Seriously, do you not see what your idea of having add on input methods means? Making a tablet do what in the past has been the reason for having the flexability of a tablet!

            The day the phrase "sent from my ipad" stops being an excuse for bad spelling and grammar I'll accept a tablet can be practically accurate multi-input device.

            1. Captain Obvious

              Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

              No one has mentioned what I am using right now - the Dell XPS 12 with 4th core I7 CPU. This thing is a full blown netbook AND tablet. Much better than the surface pro I used at work. I can be very productive, and then fold the screen and do my consumption with the netbook in tablet mode all for around 3 pounds. No need for an extra keyboard, just a mouse or touch. Mouse for productivity and touch for consuming. iPad no longer gets used here except by the kids for some games. This blows the kindle away as I can have more reading area or view two pages like a real book. Backlit keyboard, instant on, etc all works fantastic. Can even boot up faster than the iPad from complete shutdown.

              For US people, Costco has the FULLY decked out version for $1199 with all options and max memory. Only thing it lacks is good video as it uses the Intel 4400 for video. PC's will also never die as they make great game machines with more flexibility than the XBOX/PS4/whatever. Will be interesting to see how well the steam machines fair this Christmas. Let us be honest: with the exception of the Dell XPS 12, laptops/PC's for productivity and tablets for consuming.

              Tim

        2. N2
          Pint

          Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

          Well said Sir,

          My ordinateur will be eight years old soon & replacing would have no affect on quality or how quickly I work.

        3. TheOtherHobbes

          Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

          "Now, how long does it take the average individual to create finished works of equal quality based on devices of each input paradigm?"

          Agreement here: stupid article is stupid. The failure with the mainframe -> mini -> PC -. slab analogy is that each previous generation made it possible for users to do more stuff for less money.

          Slabs make it possible to do less stuff for less money. And the storage is remote. So it's basically another take on the thin client idea, which has been around forever, and is always a poor substitute for real computing, unless you have very limited needs.

          As for PC sales being down. Well duh - that's because Win 8 killed them. Too many users at all levels looked at Win 8 and said 'What the fucking fuck? - I'll consider an upgrade when you give me a proper OS."

          Now - what will happen is Ballmer's replacement is suddenly going to rediscover the desktop/professional market, and Win 9 will include a choice of UIs. Or - more likely - will be available in a pro version for content creators that costs twice as much as consumer windows. And massively multicore PCs will become pro-only machines, priced accordingly.

          This is all bad. The brilliant thing about the PC was that it gave users decent general-purpose power at an affordable price. Splitting the market into consumertron slabs and 'real' PCs for professionals will kill a lot of innovation, because a lot of excellent and popular PC/Mac software and content relies on motivated developers taking advantage of low cost of entry. If the cost of entry goes up - goodbye.

          1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

            Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

            New tools rarely replace old tools outright. Since buying electric drills and screwdrivers I have not thrown away my hammers, or manual screwdrivers, nor will I. I use tablets (just got an ASUS Transformer Pad cheaply, like the hybrid set-up) and like them for browsing, but I still use my laptop and desktop machines (writing articles and coding), and when I need more serious grunt (Gigapixel images) a 64 core compute server, and when I want to play with the big boys with big data: clusters or supercomputers. I use WIMP or touch as needed, but very often still use the command line. As new tools are added to the toolbox, we gain flexibility. Do most users need the command line? I would not think so. Do I see my students use the command line? Not as much as I do, but they still revert to it for certain types of work.

            I love using editors, or word processors, but boy am I glad I still have pen, pencil and paper.

            I might also suggest PC sales are going down because many people have PCs that work just fine, and are in no hurry to upgrade.

            1. Intractable Potsherd

              Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

              Amen, Trevor! Hipster twits like the author are all so immersed in their little worlds that they cannot see that there are other ways of doing things, and that "new" isn't always "better". The tablet is a tool for a particular corner of the computing world - and may have some advantages over other methods - but it isn't likely to take over from the current way of doing things any time soon. At the very least, there will be a significant number of people who want native programs and significant on-device storage.

              @TheOtherHobbes - I like the idea of tablets as thin clients. Good analogy!

              1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

                Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                Liam's an opensorcerer, not a hipster twit.

                The commenters may be hipsters. I'm convinced Liam was just trolling.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                  And Trevor, by your very name-calling and pigeon-holing it's clear that you are just a common-or-garden loud mouthed opinionated dick.

                  1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

                    Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

                    Oh, and Anonymous Coward

                    A) Yes, I'm a loud-mouthed opinionated dick.

                    B) It's not pigeon holing when I set out specific criteria as well as what is required to change my opinion on the topic. It's a valid complaint with a detailed analysis.

                    C) You obviously missed the two separate posts in which I stated pretty clearly I was trolling people. Honestly, how to achieve critical cognition with a forehead that slants so sharply?

                    D) You have yet to actually prove me wrong at anything, you've basically just whined about how unfair it is that people upvote someone who is making fun of the pit of electronic tat you've attached your self-worth to. Boo-hoo-hoo. Cry me a fucking river.

                    E) Proof not promises is what the people here quite obviously demand. Maybe it's because we're old enough to have finished high school and moved out of our parents' basements. We've seen trends come and trends go and we don't jump on just any old bandwagon. What's on the table has to be demonstrably better than what we have now before we give fucks.

                    And last, but certainly not least...

                    F) why do you care so much? So there are a (significant, by percentage) group of people who feel that they don't want to be early adopters of a new technology and will wait for that technology to more than prove itself before they change their existing, working, profitable workflows over to a new class of device. Why does this bother you so much? What compelled you to align your self worth with a bit of technology? You should get some help, buddy. Serious, honest-to-gods help. You'll feel better about yourself after you do.

            2. Chemist

              Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

              "a 64 core compute server, and when I want to play with the big boys with big data: clusters or supercomputers. I use WIMP or touch as needed, but very often still use the command line."

              Ditto. Even at home I often transcode or render video by switching it to my file-server to run 'off-peak' - slow but steady.

          2. N2
            Pint

            Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

            @ TheOtherHobbes - Good post.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

          "Prove me wrong."

          Calm down Trevor. And do a little bit of growing up while you wipe the froth away. Novel have/are being written. It's early days in the device life to be producing great 3D works like Toy Story, but there is little reason why it cannot be done. Just because you clearly lack the imagination to do anything of this kind, doesn't mean it isn't possible. Both Autodesk and Adobe, among others, are producing some producing amazing apps that do help creative individuals produce amazing work. Sketchbook Pro and Photoshop being prime examples of tablet apps that have a lot of grunt. Garage band can be used to put together demos or complete song should you wish. And things are only going to get better. Both the following are free and can be used to make stopframe animations;

          https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/stop-motion-studio/id441651297?mt=8

          https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/smoovie-stop-motion-animation/id424224789?mt=8

          And Sculpt 123 is a pretty decent modelling app;

          https://itunes.apple.com/app/123d-sculpt/id446119510?mt=8

          To make an asinine and sweeping statment like you have and then get all fucking arsey when someone calls you on it if childish. The lack of forsight from you and the idiots that up vote you show you for what you are curmudgeonly dinosaurs that lack the foresight to see beyond what is in front of them.

          1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

            Re: No, Liam, I won't be using a fondleslab as my primary computer.

            Have you used any of that software, oh brave Anonymous Coward? I have. It's shit. Talking up Adobe finger paints as somehow equivalent to a precision-pointer-driven interface does nothing but demonstrate that you haven't clue one about the topic.

            What's more, even if you can write such amazingly complex and wonderful software that it somehow makes up for the imprecision of the input methodology, you still haven't dealt with the fact that A) Touch controls by nature obscure a significant chunk of the screen and B) no touch-based OS has demonstrated any interest whatsoever in providing a proper multitasking environment. (The Wind River modification to Android put to one side for now, that is mostly used to make Android desktops, not fondlestroke padlets.)

            Let's say you add enough toys to a fondleslab to support a multitasking environment. You also redesign the OS to cope with the fact that a significant chunk of the world isn't wired for search/voice as an input methodology (and no, that's not a "choice", that's actual genetics that dictate how our brains work.) Then you add support for a set of precision pointers, keyboard, multiple monitors, etc. Why do you have?

            A PC.

            The only way to make a tablet into a productivity device is to reinvent the PC. (Or do something dramatically different like combine it with a neural impulse actuator.)

            I can see how some people flirt close to the idea of turning a tablet into a PC, but they never quite do. You see, if they did so then nobody would need two devices. Also, they wouldn't need to keep buying new tablets every year, because they'd have one device that did everything they want. So nobody is going to actually make a productivity-based tablet. It's not good business.

            You'll also note - actually scratch that, I doubt you have 12 functional brain cells to rub together, you probably weren't able to notice the bolded letters - that I said "how long does it take the average individual to create finished works of equal quality based on devices of each input paradigm?"

            The ability to suck out loud, but do it on your shiny bit of personal self-worth - now available in diamond, if you are feeling particularly genitalialy inadequate - is utterly irrelevant. The only thing that matters is productivity. Productivity = profit. The device is either superior at the productivity tasks in question or it is not.

            I will not debate the superiority of tablets for portability or for consumption of media. They aren't, however, productivity devices. They may have apps that allow you to (badly) approximate productivity tasks, but you must do so with no appreciable multitasking ability and in every case I've seen so far you have to choose to sacrifice either quality or speed compared to a real computer.

            I think the reason people are upvoting me here is that they understand the above. They don't feel the need to attach themselves to the "new" and "shiny" in order to feel like they have a sense of meaning in their life. They care about getting shit done and then charging someone for it so that they can go on and do the things they care about.

            If what you care about is pretending that tablets can be used for productivity, go hard. But that's a hobby, that's not professional creative endeavours. It doesn't pay the bills; only edge cases are going to be able to pay the bills using a monotasking fondlewidget.

            So I return to my previous statement prove me wrong. Show a range of creative activities in which tablets can produce equal or superior quality works faster than we can with PC.

            You'll excuse me if I don't wait around for you to do so. I've actual work to do.

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