Thats a lot of people...
trolling Eadon with their wallets
Nokia's cheap Lumia handsets helped Microsoft's Windows Phone operating system to a nearly nine per cent share of the UK market - but for all the Finns' efforts, the Lumia is still a rounding error in the United States. The data comes from a Kantar Worldpanel poll of buyers globally in the second calendar quarter of 2013; the …
trolling Eadon with their wallets
These sales are more to do with the strength of the Nokia brand in Europe and little to do with MS.
If Nokia wants to reach its former strength then it needs to go back and do what it was doing before Elop screwed everything up. I.e. an open-source linux-based OS with Android and Qt app compatibility.
de mortuis nil nisi bonum. Give the poor fellow a rest. He probably had to fix one borked Server 2003 installation too many, and is now ambling among the lambkins and the long grass in the Great Server Farm in the Sky.
I love my Lumia 900, only gripe being it doesn't have windows phone 8, but 7.8 does the job quite well.
The lumia series are great phones, but i don't think it really apeals to the kids, which is the demo everyone is aiming for. Uptake of the Lumia in office environments is actually quite good, probably due to the rock solid reputation Nokia Earned in the office workplace.
I think there's a good future for Nokia and Winphone, but they need to work hard to make it happen.
Windows Phone is approaching critical mass and has pushed Blackberry into a distant 4th place. Just a few more 'essential' apps are needed to really start sticking it to Apple....
But if WinPho can recover, so can BB.
Not really. BB has the problem of being inherently tied to a single device manufacturer, which limits the potential for market penetration quite significantly. It's the same reason Android has dwarfed iOS, because Apple simply can't supply devices for the entire market, even if they could persuade everyone to buy one.
<<<Windows Phone is approaching critical mass and has pushed Blackberry into a distant 4th place. >>>
Blackberry has pushed Blackberry into 4th place.
WinPho is outselling BB by 8:1 in the US and 2:1 in the UK and the gap is growing....
I wont pretend its the best thing since sliced bread but for the price my 620 is very good.
though I've little free system memory, i have as many apps on as i want. Plenty of room for audio on the memory card i fitted though.
and an audio line out as on the iPhone would make in car use better, but on the plus side the headphone jack is integral with easily replaced back covet rather than extortionately inaccessible.
With you on that. I own one, and as a phone it is rather good. The browsing sucks battery, the email application could be better if you use imap, the Music app is shockingly bad (try Music Wall) and I don't trust Microsoft (but I don't trust Google either), but on the plus side, it is very easy to use, refreshingly so; one handed is a breeze here with the form factor and the OS. The recording quality with sound is pretty good for a phone using the built in mic. The battery life can be two days if you don't do a lot of browsing, actually using it as a phone hardly seems to impact the battery life! The build quality is good, plus if you do manage to scratch the covers, the design means that a new cover effectively makes it look like a new phone. The IP rated cover is a great idea too, if you can find them. I do miss the configuration and control you get with a Cyanogenmod android, however, get this: The lumia behaves better connected to Linux than the Android ever did. Can't quite get over that. Piss easy to transfer music and photos.
Skype though, skype is a right royal pita on Windows Phone 8. Surprisingly. It is better on Linux.
Thanks AC - would welcome more of these sort of reviews from actual users on Windows phones from other Reg users.
I'm open minded about which phone OS to use and I do remember my old Nokia's fondly - the E61 I was using until a few months ago remains the best-built phone I've ever had - but I am not sure if the move to Windows Phone has allowed them to maintain that sort of standard.
I have a 620 and it's absolutely...fine. Battery life for normal day-to-day phone, messaging, etc. is pretty good (maybe 4 days?) but apps and games suck it dry disappointingly fast. This is a pity because the bundled Nokia apps are bloody excellent. I do suffer from the problem that some of the apps I want are iOS and Android only, but I don't lose sleep over it.
My wife has an 8S and it's excellent in all respects. She really loves it.
The WinPhone8 OS itself is IMO great fun to use and has made a lot of really smart choices. Office and SkyDrive integration is slick as hell. Objectively, to me at least, it's the best interface on the market, and if you're part of the MS ecosystem, it is a complete no-brainer. For the broader user, not so much, and therein is the problem until it gets some serious traction.
The integration between different forms of accounts is by turns astounding and disturbing.
I've got three email accounts - MSLive/hotmail, yahoo, and gmail - twitter, Facebook and skype on my phone.
You take a photo and then pick share: the phone asks you which of the aforementioned (plus SMS and SkyDrive) you want to share through.
At the same time the People app/function is feeding you updates of your contacts activities across twitter, Facebook etc. And the "Me" one is grouping your activities on social media and reactions to them.
But "take its own sweet time promoting" is clearly causing a serious problem here.
Let's face it, what does everyone complain about with winpho? Apps. It's always the apps. How many smart phone users do you think actually _care_ about apps? I'm willing to bet the vast majority of iPhone users buy their iPhone, play about with it a bit, install angry birds, then never use the store again.
Most people - I don't mean the sort of people who read the reg, I mean people who don't give a damn about technology - do not care about apps. They care about shiny. They care about easy. iPhones are shiny. iPhones are easy.
Lumia's are easy too, and the more expensive ones are even shiny... but I'm willing to bet that although 99% of people will probably have heard of Nokia, a huge number of them won't even know that there _is_ such a think as windows phone for all the promotion it's had.
If you don't want apps, then why have a smartphone? For the web browser? For the social media? These are apps So is YouTube. So is the one that controls your PVR remotely. On the other hand, if you just want the browser, a "feature phone" will do.
What about all the people whose children spent huge amounts of money on in-app, in-game purchases? They're using apps, although they may have not known that.
I assume also that if you get a Windows phone then it says Windows all over it, or Windows Phone with the word "Phone" printed very small.
I'm not sure that's exactly true. I think people like to think they care about apps, and there's a certain security in knowing that if and when they care about apps, it's (reportedly) iOS and Android that should be their destination.
However hard it was going to be for MS to make a dent in the post-Apple smartphone market, they're not doing themselves any favours with poor promotion and glacially slow updates.
I think the point being made was more that many people don't care about the wide availability of 15,000 fart apps, and are mostly happy to use the apps which come as standard with the phone.
I mean, I'm an alpha nerd who was compiling kernels by hand back when linux came on 22 floppies, but I still don't really have the time or inclination to mess around with my current smartphone (nexus 4) much. So although in theory I am glad to own an unlocked phone which I can potentially tinker with, actually for 99.9% of the stuff I use the phone for, a winphone would probably do the job just as well despite a much smaller pool of apps.
I have a 620. I really like it, but I think Nokia are the best thing thats happened to WinPhone with the amount of apps Nokia have provided.
a) The build quality is really good, like really really good. It feels a lot more expensive than it is.
b) Phone call quality is excellent. Nokia excellent.
c) The battery life is pretty darned good for what I use it for, texts, phonecalls, email, browsing sometimes, as a satnav, a few pass time apps, looking up the weather, etc. In fact I've stopped bothering to turn off my data now (something I always made sure I did on my old Sony Xperia Mini Pro) and it seems to be very reasonable in how its handling background data.
d) The screen is really nice, the deep black and vibrancy of it make up for the resolution being lower than top end phones.
e) It's a nice size for the hand and pocket to make it easy to carry, easy to use with one hand.
f) The Nokia Here apps are really really good. The SatNav works better than my TomTom (it's faster, more responsive, recalculates quicker), it's easy to read and use. The augmented reality "what's here" apps might be a bit of a gimmick visually but they work well and give useful information as to whats around and are so quick to use I find myself using it more than similar apps on Android. These apps fit together and feel consistent.
g) The way WinPhone 8 brings together information on people you know from texts, calls, facebook, etc, is really neat. I wish it could group together some more info (like yahoo mail) but what it does, it does more intuitively than any of the Android apps I used.
h) WinPhone 8's model of partitioning user data feels a bit of a pain so loading audio, etc, in can end up being segregated by different apps and having to use SkyDrive. It is a more sensible security model though IMHO and stops the Android sprawl you see on a memory card, etc, after you've installed and uninstalled apps. It needs to be made more seemless, and allow you to make the choice to organise your files a bit more but, it has a solid base.
i) I would like to group my apps rather than have a list, but, you have live tiles instead and a single list does make things well, simple.
j) Livetiles. I thought I would never use these but actually people are starting to come up with good ideas. Weather updates from the Weather Channel, data usage/balance from giffgaff, Nokia's congestion for commuting. People seem to be starting to get the feel of it.
k) Apps. Yes, the app store is limited. I would love a Barclays banking app, I would love a proper Yahoo Mail/Messenger App. I can live without both though, its a niggle not a head banging the wall. I have some "I wish I could have..." but it doesn't stop me from finding the phone slicker and more coherent and together than my old Android.
l) App Store. It's a mess. Really. The layout is horrible, you can't see instantly what you already have installed, remote installing from the web fails half the time, you can't see what are "official" apps. The W8 (and W8phone) stores just need redesigning from scratch to how people use and search for things.
m) I would rather have Chrome than IE as a browser, but it seems to work ok.
So upshot - I wouldn't have bought a phone for Win8 phone, but I am happy enough with having decided to buy a Nokia 620 that just happened to have Win8. All the niggles are just that, niggles and ones which an be addressed if MS every listen to users about how they use their phone. On the whole though, they've done a reasonable job and none of them make me wish I didn't have the 620.
Pretty much this. I mean, I unlocked my android handset when I got it so I could install anything I liked than then... and then did... sort of nothing, actually. Never found I needed to.
It's a _phone_ for gods sake. It gets email, text and phone calls. Sometimes I look things up on the internet to decide arguments in the pub. Occasionally I take photos... that's pretty much it. I've never really found that I want it to do more than that, and I strongly suspect that's true for most people.
Sure, technically those are applications, because _technically_ it's a general purpose computer these days and _everything_ (the phone included) is an application - but I wouldn't really class them as "Apps" in the "App store" sense of the word. I didn't have to go and download them.
The only thing that's alarmingly missing from WinPho from my perspective is a decent RDP client - which for a Microsoft product seems a little weird - but I very much doubt anyone who doesn't work in IT cares about that.
> I think the point being made was more that many people don't care about the wide availability of 15,000 fart apps
You can never have enough fart apps. Crack me up every time!
My employer has to issue Lumias, as they insist only a Windows-based device is allowed to connect to their email system. I wouldn't have chosen one ....
"My employer has to issue Lumias, as they insist only a Windows-based device is allowed to connect to their email system. I wouldn't have chosen one ....!"
They probably care about security. Windows Phone is the only uncracked major mobile OS. Even BB10 was rooted already.
Also it's highly manageable via SCCM that they probably already have.
Samsung Knox been cracked has it? Care to show a citation?
Oh, it's *all* about security. My employer is pursuing an aggressive mobile workforce strategy, which is currently reaping dividends in cost reduction and flexibility. The aim is to have us all working out of a bank of phoneboxes in Neath, with the Little Chef for hotdesks.
Uncracked because there's no users? i doubt firefoxos or jolla has been cracked yet either. You can bet windows phone will be cracked too if anyone cares enough. Windows RT was cracked quickly enough, and it's a very similar system.
And if they cared about security, then they wouldn't be allowing windows based desktops to access their email...
I don't think that you should have such an aggressive opinion about this: Do you usually open your unlocked door with a crowbar? No? Then why would you mention an open source software like FirefoxOS and cracking in the same sentence?
oh, never mind.
"Windows RT was cracked quickly enough, and it's a very similar system."
Windows RT also remains uncracked.
There is a way of running unsigned apps by turning on a development feature provided in the OS by Microsoft, but the RT security has not been cracked - if you reboot the tablet, you can longer run unsigned apps...You cannot modify OS files....
Nokia never had the same brand affinity in the States.
There is a pleasantly retro vibe about owning a Nokia here. A friend posted on Facebook today that she'd just bought a Lumia: She's a fashion maven, not a techie. She probably thinks an operating system is something to do with hospitals and that serial interface is having your breakfast.
But a 'Lumia' has the cool factor.
There was a time when Nokia had over 50% UK market share and 80% of those customers said that they would never buy another brand of mobile phone. These are probably the people who then went and bought pink Razrs and today have iPhones but they can be won back to Nokia.
There is no "Back" for the Americans, many of whom think Nokia is a Japanese brand. They can't even pronounce it properly.
There was a time when Nokia had over 50% UK market share and 80% of those customers said that they would never buy another brand of mobile phone.
I was one of those people, until Elop killed
MaemoMeego off and made the switch to WinPhone. I wouldn't touch a Nokia with a shitty stick now...
I was one of those all time Nokia fans, I'd always had a Nokia since practically my first phone in the mid 90s. The xpress music 5800 killed it for me, buggy, crashy, incomplete OS, poor build quality and never ready updates. The rot at Nokia set in long, long before Elop arrived.
I do now own a Lumia 820 and it's a pretty good device, the OS is fine, the apps available suit me. The build quality seems good and it has a pleasing heft to it. I'm pleased that Nokia seem to have turned the corner towards rebuilding their business again.
I work with phones, I habitually check what phone people are using when I see one and I've yet to see a windows phone in the wild.
So if people are buying them, they're not using them in public as far as I can see.
Anecdotal evidence is still evidence, it even says it right in the name.
Mind you, if they're as hard to get as a Surface RT with the uni deal (still no sign of it, started the process as soon a I saw it was announed), I'm not surprised.
"invented evidence" also has "evidence" in the name :)
I know two people who have them (as do I) but unless someone has their phone out I wouldn't be aware what phone they have unless they email with a "sent from my ..." signature or upload a picture to FaceBook with their phone.
In the same way, I have NEVER seen anyone use a non-Apple tablet which is plain weird as Android has supposedly got a decent market share now. I see loads of Android phones but no tablets. Also no Windows tablets but that is not very surprising :)
And, as we all know, that never happens in public.
It's not like phones are like tablets which people use all the time while walking on the streets and so you can see that nobody has an android one.
You can't be looking very hard. I'm in a 6 man office and one has a windows phone.
Anecdotal evidence in anecdotal.
>So if people are buying them, they're not using them in public as far as I can see.
Yeah, I'd be afraid of being laughed at too.
"I work with phones, I habitually check what phone people are using when I see one and I've yet to see a windows phone in the wild."
I assume you don't live in the UK then - they are all over the place.
Maybe people who use Android tablets aren't the bell-ends that take pictures using their tablet.
I saw someone recently actually using an iPad to take photos. What on earth is that.
It seems people have issues with sarcasm on the internet.
I even typed the wrinkle in the paper above the m.
You didn't say where in the world you were based. Here in a popular public house in semi-rural England, there are a few people with WinPho8 Nokias... enough that the figure of 10% seems about right.
Here in Cambridge, I don't see any.
Though I still see a fair number of old Blackberries around too. In the pubs it's all android here, the odd iphone. Reverse that for the coffee shops and locations closer to the uni.
I'd heard about "ipad photos" but didn't believe it til I saw someone stopping outside the MGM in Vegas in the middle of the walkway and holding up their ipad. I guess there is nowt as queer as folk.
I've seen a couple.
Out of the 12 guys in my engineering workshop two bought WP devices (bar one iPhone user the rest all have 'droids).
One returned his as he didn't like WP compared to iOS, and the other now has a Lumia shaped brick (it wont charge or power up anymore) and has replaced it with a shiny new HTC One.
You don't get out much then, do you?
I saw two Lumia owners just last night. I see them on most days.
Some features I'd like MS to move faster than a glacier on, but generally it's good, and I - weirdly - get strangers stopping and talking to me about how good it looks, so I guess that's good if you like that sort of thing.
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