A former CIA technician has broken cover to reveal himself as the mole who leaked information about PRISM - the US government's massive web surveillance programme. Edward Snowden, 29, outed himself as the source of revelations that the National Security Agency (NSA) has tapped up American internet giants for data on foreigners …

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Monday 10th June 2013 09:50 GMT ceesboog

Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals

Edward Snowden who provided the info from NSA should get the Four Freedoms Medal/Award for:

freedom of speech and expression — everywhere in the world.

freedom from fear — which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor — anywhere in the world.

(From Franklin Delano's Roosevelt's speech to Congress January 6, 1941)

Because like Franklin D. Roosevelt said on March 4, 1933 the Only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

If we should fear our goverments, those are just dictators, and we should get rid of those, everywhere in the world.

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1. Monday 10th June 2013 10:18 GMT Professor Clifton Shallot
  
  Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
  
  "If we should fear our goverments, those are just dictators, and we should get rid of those"
  
  What's most depressing is how many people seem to want this sort of government.
  
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  1. Monday 10th June 2013 10:39 GMT ceesboog
    
    Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
    
    They seem to want, because they don't know what this sort of goverment wants of them.
    
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2. Monday 10th June 2013 10:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
  
  Until the Fifth Freedom is invoked.
  
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3. Monday 10th June 2013 11:35 GMT Phil O'Sophical
  
  Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
  
  > provided the info from NSA
  
  i.e. he took a position of trust, and betrayed that trust.
  
  He can prate on about his principles, and how he doesn't want it to be "about him", but he clearly has no qualms about breaking signed promises when he feels like it, so his principles are somewhat flexible.
  
  I might have had some regard for him if he'd dug this info up through diligent investigation, as it is he's just another "look how clever I am, I know all about the baaaaaad man" Assange wannabe. Was anyone really surprised by the information that the spy services are spying on us?
  
  3 40
  1. Monday 10th June 2013 11:38 GMT Squander Two
    
    Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
    
    Just to be clear, do you oppose all whistleblowers?
    
    9 2
  2. Monday 10th June 2013 12:51 GMT BillG
    
    Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
    
    he clearly has no qualms about breaking signed promises when he feels like it, so his principles are somewhat flexible.
    
    I'd say Snowden clearly has qualms about Obama breaking the law when he feels like it, so Snowden's principles are somewhat intact.
    
    9 1
    1. Monday 10th June 2013 13:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
      
      Obama (and the NSA et al) did not break the law. **THAT'S** the problem!
      
      1 1
      1. Monday 10th June 2013 13:55 GMT btrower
        
        Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
        
        Re: "Obama (and the NSA et al) did not break the law. **THAT'S** the problem!"
        
        I get your point. However, when the Constitution is in conflict with a law the federal government had no right to pass in the first place, the Constitution trumps that law. None of the three branches of the federal government has a legal authority to alter the Constitution either in letter or spirit. They do not have a true legal right to do what they are doing. Whether or not they are ever charged and tried does not effect the fact that illegal search is ... wait for it ... illegal.
        
        Let's face it, this administration has blithely set themselves up as prosecutor, judge and jury in capital cases and does not even allow the victim to know they are under investigation before sentence is pronounced and they are executed. This is illegal under any legal regime of which I am aware. It is certainly against U.S. Law.
        
        There is so much wrong with this. How can you effectively exercise a right to associate with people when the government monitors everything you do and has deemed some people 'enemy combatants' and no longer protected by the law? If people realize that the label can be slapped on them just for sending a Birthday card, it has a chilling effect to say the least.
        
        If they are willing to actually kill people without a trial, they won't be afraid to peek in on your Email.
        
        They have told us that it is up to them to determine what their powers are and that is is all legal. It is not true just because they said so. Legislation that is fundamentally illegal is null and void. You not only have a right to resist such legislation. You have a duty.
        
        13 1
        
        Monday 10th June 2013 14:01 GMT Squander Two
        
        Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
        
        Furthermore, the US has laws in place specifically to protect and reward whistleblowers, precisely to enable good people to expose wrongdoing without having to fear loss of livelihood, intimidation of their family, etc. So the American legal framework already recognises that doing what's right trumps a contract of employment.
        
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        Monday 10th June 2013 14:43 GMT Matt Bryant
        
        Re: btrower Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
        
        Let's cut through the rest of the male bovine manure of your post and get right to the point:
        
        "....If they are willing to actually kill people without a trial, they won't be afraid to peek in on your Email....." If you mean "targetted assassination", such as a drone strike, then they have a very good reason to carry one out, usually as a result of intelligence gathering. They have no reason to look in your email other than using it as a case study for paranoid delusions.
        
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        Tuesday 11th June 2013 10:33 GMT Intractable Potsherd
        
        Re: btrower Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals @ Matt Bryant
        
        Matt, do you have to be an apologist for the government and security forces *every* time? I know you think it makes you a realist, but it really doesn't.
        
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        Tuesday 11th June 2013 12:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        Re: btrower Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
        
        ""....If they are willing to actually kill people without a trial, they won't be afraid to peek in on your Email....." If you mean "targetted assassination", such as a drone strike,"
        
        Same thing. Exactly the same thing.
        
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        Tuesday 11th June 2013 10:30 GMT Intractable Potsherd
        
        Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
        
        " Legislation that is fundamentally illegal is null and void. You not only have a right to resist such legislation. You have a duty."
        
        Yes, this. Until more people understand this, the world will go to hell in a handbasket. We need more courageous people with the knowledge of these wrongdoings to stand up and be counted. A morally bad law is not a law that must be followed.
        
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      2. Monday 10th June 2013 17:00 GMT ceesboog
        
        Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
        
        “Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. ”
        
        ― George Orwell
        
        There's written law and moral law!
        
        4 0
    2. Monday 10th June 2013 13:27 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
      
      "qualms about Obama breaking the law"
      
      No laws were broken, and everything was signed off by congress. The only person who broke laws here is Snowden. He may feel justified in doing so, but that doesn't make it right.
      
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      1. Monday 10th June 2013 13:38 GMT Anonymous Coward
        
        Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
        
        @AC
        
        Bah!
        
        So following that logic, when Hitler passed laws condemning millions to death, the SS were in the clear because they were obeying the Law.
        
        Or perhaps you prefer the notion that it was right that Mandela spent all those years in prison, after all- he did break the Laws of the apartheid regime? (!!!!!)
        
        Bad Laws should be opposed & exposed for what they are.
        
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      2. Tuesday 11th June 2013 03:29 GMT Sorry that handle is already taken.
        
        Re: AC@13:27
        
        "The only person who broke laws here is Snowden. He may feel justified in doing so, but that doesn't make it right."
        
        No, what you mean to say is that doesn't make it legal. Whether or not it's right is a separate, and much less black and white, consideration.
        
        3 0
      3. Tuesday 11th June 2013 03:47 GMT Henry Wertz 1
        
        Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
        
        "No laws were broken, and everything was signed off by congress. "
        
        This is not true, these programs are illegal, and exceed even the (already excessive) authorization provided by the law. If you look at the legal fantasies used to justify these programs (which were leaked), they are quite spurious, use circular logic, and very unusual definitions for terms (which do not match the normal or legal definition of these terms.) These activities are unconstitutional, and any law that permits them is unconstitutional.
        
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    3. Monday 10th June 2013 16:59 GMT ceesboog
      
      Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
      
      “In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
      
      ― George Orwell
      
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  3. Monday 10th June 2013 13:07 GMT The BigYin
    
    Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
    
    Do you work for the NHS?
    
    2 0
  4. Monday 10th June 2013 14:00 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
    
    "he took a position of trust, and betrayed that trust."
    
    Just like his employers. So I guess they're even.
    
    "Was anyone really surprised by the information that the spy services are spying on us?"
    
    Oh, so no harm done, then? Make up your mind.
    
    5 1
  5. Tuesday 11th June 2013 11:33 GMT Bronny
    
    Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
    
    So, if a doctor or health authority was hiding excessive deaths due to a dodgy surgeon you'd be happy for all concerned to hide behind their contract of employment and feel no moral urgency to whistleblow? You do realise you don't sign away your soul when working for a company don't you? You still have moral duties a functioning member of society, dont you? Or are you a robot?
    
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4. Monday 10th June 2013 11:48 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: Edward Snowden should get 2 Four Freedoms Medals
  
  You see that's where it goes wrong. You should start thinking about the world as it is, rather than how you would like it to be.
  
  1 7
Monday 10th June 2013 09:54 GMT Arctic fox

Land of the Free?

It is highly ironic that so many years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the USSR that US governments are now subjecting their own citizens to the kind of intrusive surveillance that was common practice in the old Soviet Union - and are using pretty much the same justifications for it as the Soviet Communist Party used in its time.

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2. Monday 10th June 2013 10:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: Land of the Free?
  
  It's been going on, in one form or another, for at least 30 years. It really isn't news.
  
  And the UK has similar systems in place, it's not just the USA treating her people like criminals.
  
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  1. Monday 10th June 2013 11:28 GMT Vladimir Plouzhnikov
    
    Re: Land of the Free?
    
    "It's been going on, in one form or another, for at least 30 years. It really isn't news."
    
    We were routinely taught about the NSA listening to all phone calls in the US during Civil Defence lectures in the university, back in the '80s in Moscow. I believe most of the Americans never even heard of the NSA's existence back then...
    
    Funny that, eh?
    
    12 1
  2. Monday 10th June 2013 11:31 GMT jason 7
    
    Re: Land of the Free?
    
    Oh indeed. Personally as a Brit that's had to sit and see folks from the US laugh at us for our UK Govt. announcing new monitoring initiatives I find this quite frankly hilarious.
    
    Especially when the same folks covered their ears when I said they would be naive to think the same wasn't happening to them.
    
    "They wouldn't dare cos we got ourselves a constitution, democracy and guns buddy!"
    
    Yeah see how that worked out for you. Just as powerless as the rest of the world's citizens. At least mine had the decency and courage to let me know it was snooping.
    
    Welcome to the real world!
    
    Now we'll get loads of talk about "rising up and taking back our gubmint!" except nothing will happen as this is nowhere near as important an issue as the banning of 16oz sodas to the average American.
    
    14 3
  3. Monday 17th June 2013 03:26 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    Re: Land of the Free?
    
    RE:"It's been going on, in one form or another, for at least 30 years. It really isn't news. And the UK has similar systems in place, it's not just the USA treating her people like criminals.
    
    This does not excuse our government's behavior one whit. As an American, I am furious.
    
    0 0
3. Monday 10th June 2013 10:51 GMT Elmer Phud
  
  Re: Land of the Free?
  
  " that US governments are STILL subjecting their own citizens to the kind of intrusive surveillance"
  
  McCarthyism never died
  
  11 1
4. Monday 10th June 2013 11:15 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: Land of the Free?
  
  There is nothing ironic about it. People get the governments that survive.
  
  All open governments are destroyed by hostile foreign ones.
  
  0 14
  1. Tuesday 11th June 2013 10:35 GMT Intractable Potsherd
    
    Re: Land of the Free? @AC 11:15
    
    "All open governments are destroyed by hostile foreign ones."
    
    Are you going to back that up with evidence?
    
    1 0
5. Monday 10th June 2013 11:35 GMT Wade Burchette
  
  Re: Land of the Free?
  
  One of the US's founding fathers, Benjamin Franklin, said "any society that will give up a little bit of liberty to gain a little bit of security will deserve neither and lose both". I am amazed at how willingly people give up their privacy and liberties all in the name of protection.
  
  Which reminds me of another quote, this one from Shakespeare: "And many strokes, though with a little axe, hew down and fell the hardest-timbered oak." A little bit of our rights cut off here, a little bit there, and eventually we will have no rights.
  
  15 1
  1. Monday 10th June 2013 12:03 GMT Matt Bryant
    
    Re: Wade Burchette Re: Land of the Free?
    
    "One of the US's founding fathers, Benjamin Franklin, said "any society that will give up a little bit of liberty to gain a little bit of security will deserve neither and lose both"....." Gee, never heard that canned quote bleated before. Tell you what, I'll give you the staple response as you seem new to this whole debating thing - "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance", Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence. Now, we could run through the usual counters on did Jefferson mean that it was the free that needed to keep an eye on their government, or was it that the government had to keep an eye out to threats to the people, but as it's your first time why don't you try posting some original thought as to what Jefferson may have meant? And I mean original as in not just canned quotes, thanks.
    
    3 14
    1. Tuesday 11th June 2013 11:36 GMT CJM
      
      Re: Wade Burchette Land of the Free?
      
      "Now, we could run through the usual counters on did Jefferson mean that it was the free that needed to keep an eye on their government, or was it that the government had to keep an eye out to threats to the people"
      
      Regardless, I'm pretty sure that Jefferson didn't mean that governments should key an eye on their people... Especially not such an invasive eye...
      
      0 0
    2. Tuesday 11th June 2013 19:43 GMT Anonymous Coward
      
      Re: Wade Burchette Land of the Free?
      
      "but as it's your first time why don't you try posting some original thought as to what Jefferson may have meant?"
      
      Jefferson was a slaver. Thus, his opinions on liberty are about as worthless as they get.
      
      0 0
  2. Monday 10th June 2013 12:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    Re: Land of the Free?@Wade Burchette
    
    "I am amazed at how willingly people give up their privacy and liberties all in the name of protection."
    
    When were they given an informed choice?
    
    Quite amusing to read Obama's comments reported last Friday that that "as a society we're going to have to make some choices". The choices have already been made on society's behalf, without their knowledge or consent, and the choice that has been made is that the government's "needs" trump those of the people. All major, established political parties in most large countries support widespread communications interception, so even if the existing government are thrown out, the next one will be equally incompetent, corrupt, and controlling. Throw in the mass surveillance with the outing of the malignant Bildaberg group, and the consipracists appear to have been proven 100% correct in almost all matters.
    
    Who's going to give you your freedom back? Certainly won't be anybody you can vote for.
    
    13 1
6. Monday 10th June 2013 11:40 GMT alain williams
  
  Re: Land of the Free?
  
  ... and the sort of surveillance that was frequently, and rightly, denounced as being oppressive.
  
  4 0
7. Monday 10th June 2013 12:52 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: Land of the Free?
  
  It's funny how these articles go to such painstaking extremes to not mention Obama's involvement and guilt.
  
  5 2
  1. Monday 10th June 2013 13:13 GMT Nasty Nick
    
    Re: Land of the Free?
    
    Doh Hoh Ho Ho ho - not. Tea Party Troll, but as usual they come without even bearing the obligatory crumpets.
    
    The same MO as Eden on MS, but not as amusing.
    
    Anyhow, this snooping has being going on forever under various guises (and Presidents both red and blue), and news of this capability has been public domain for many years (e.g: James Bamford's "Body of Secrets..) for anyone who could be bothered to look.
    
    It comes with the territory really. Go back as far as you like, and you'll find with easy to use centralized comms of any technology comes centralized snooping. Simples.
    
    5 0
  2. Monday 10th June 2013 13:50 GMT jason 7
    
    Re: Land of the Free?
    
    Obama's guilt?
    
    Why he's just the same as Bush before or Romney had he won. As I mentioned, Democrat or Republican, at their core they are the same corporate sponsored lapdogs.
    
    Do you seriously think that if the Republicans get back into office next time they will be switching off all these systems? Like hell they will. I don't think you'll be seeing any great server bonfires around the country.
    
    Plus I'm sure Obama inherited a lot of snooping systems from the previous administration.
    
    Look at us here in the UK. Before the last election the Tories manifesto was very anti Labour's new IT snooping bill. But just a few weeks after they got into office it was all "Oh actually this looks a jolly useful idea!"
    
    Whoever you vote for.....
    
    6 0
  3. Monday 10th June 2013 14:28 GMT Anonymous Coward
    
    Re: Land of the Free?
    
    When I first heard of the NSA intercept operations, Reagan was in power. This issue transcends party politics as the industrial-military complex is unelected and does whatever it wants.
    
    4 0
Monday 10th June 2013 10:03 GMT lansalot

I love this...

Cracking comment from Booze Allen:

"..and if accurate, this action represents a grave violation of the code of conduct and core values of our firm."

Yes. Doing the right, moral thing, and exposing serious wrongdoing??? Fucking outrageous !! Goes against everything Booze Allen stands for.

Cover-ups for all !

32 4
1. Monday 10th June 2013 10:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: I love this...
  
  However shooting Afghan civilians and the odd wedding party is right in line with Booze Allen's company policy.
  
  8 3
Monday 10th June 2013 10:03 GMT Andy Roid McUser

hotel reservation

Let's hope Edward didn't book his hotel reservation online.. or by phone.. or use his credit card... without a disguise and a fake passport.

no matter how brave/foolish he was.. He'll be strung up for this no matter where he hides. The Americans take a dim view on a lot of stuff.. breaking ranks is high up on that list.

12 2
1. Monday 10th June 2013 10:12 GMT Version 1.0
  
  Re: breaking ranks
  
  If Jefferson and Madison were alive today they'd both be in jail.
  
  10 1
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2. Monday 10th June 2013 11:17 GMT Anonymous Coward
  
  Re: hotel reservation
  
  You aren't joking. I would rather smoke endless cigarettes through a luminous balaclava atop a stepladder in the middle of no man's land.
  
  2 0
3. Monday 10th June 2013 13:00 GMT Tom 13
  
  Re: breaking ranks is high up on that list.
  
  So you think he did this entirely without permission, including international phone calls to the Guardian, and still managed to run off to Hong Kong?
  
  Fat chance that. The deal was supposed to be that the NSA listened to everything except US phone calls. So I'd expect a conversation with the Guardian to be picked up by the NSA. And if it mentioned PRISM, I would expect that would have raised lots of red flags and been quickly escalated up the chain.
  
  Somebody gave at least tacit approval. Possibly as payback for the Intelligence community being thrown under the bus for the murder of the American Ambassador in Benghazi.
  
  Yeah, I'm engaging in dark thinking here. Probably a lot of that ahead.
  
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