Microsoft: "We're always listening to our customers"
Microsoft has finally confirmed that Xbox fans' worst fears are at least partially true: Although the new Xbox One gaming console won't need an always-on internet connection, that connection had better be on pretty often or you can forget about gaming. And don't assume you'll be able to sell or trade your old games, either. " …
@Entrope, you're jumping the gun a bit there; they'll say it in six months after shipping 15 units, but say it they will.
With this always-on device with microphone and internet connection, they actually might. Literally.
And then report it to NSA.
Given the need for being onllne and the restriction on reselling your old games I'd say they're listening more to the developers who have been bitching like little girls over the 2nd hand games stores, than they have to the people who are actually buying the games at full price in the first place.
No, no, you got it wrong, it's not "customers", it's "sheep". They need a thorough shaving, lest they overheat in summer!
And that's also why they need to keep you online on a console that has a camera and microphone and sits in your living room - to protect you.
There will be fools who will want to buy it, all three of them.
The US government has been secretly compiling and collecting data from computers and mobile phones without the knowledge of the user. Just to make a point, they've been doing this to everyone, the world and his dog.
All this to keep us safe they say, preventing terrorist attacks, but they can't tell us about it.
Do you think Microsoft is in on this?
"- it's a sort of indistinct muttering, an annoying sort of buzz; we tend to try and ignore it."
You know Xbox One already broke Pre-Order records, right?
So they give us a few concessions, bit like trying to bribe a child with a lolly, the difference is we are adults...
They will listen eventually, look at the Start button coming soon.
Well, not quite, they won't listen to us, until they find their profits tumbling then get ready for another statement,
'Microsoft listens to its customers so we will.....'
'You know Xbox One already broke Pre-Order records, right?'
Yes but they didn't know the terms and conditions until today!
You know Xbox One already broke Pre-Order records, right?
Like with those 100 million Windows 8 licenses "SOLD?"
Not possible to agree more. Not a single customer has said "please require a call home every 24 hours" or "please charge me a fee for a used game". Not one.
Therefore, by very definition, they are not listening to their customers. Or they are, but they ignoring them so much to the point of that statement being meaningless.
¡Los hombres de Redmond hasta la mierda, siempre! http://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/graphics/icons/comment/holmes_32.png
Stupid to predict One won't sell. XBox is an established big player with only one competitor.
Remember, most people plug their console into their router anyway. I predict the used-games thing will be a minor annoyance, not a deal-breaker. Speaking generally of course, of course there will be loads of people who are incensed.
However when you also factor in that serious used-game buyers who would not buy One based on this issue, are not buying many new games, and that games rather than consoles are where the money is made, it could be even less significant. Perhaps MS lose 20% of their customers, but new games sales fall only 5%, as an example.
Personally - I don't buy used games, I just wait for the cheap Platinum editions to come out.
Replace "developers" with "publishers". I'm not sure Johnny Blogs making a game really cares who/how it's distributed and used as long as he gets paid. See Indi games as an example, with pay what you want and open betas.
"We're always listening to our customers"... And if we don't here from them we cut them off
Listen, extend, embrace, extinguish!
XBox One or 101?
Someone has to trade in every used game before it can be resold and many of those users factor that into the price of new games. By raising doubt about resale Microsoft are discouraging a large group of new game purchasers.
Unless this translates to much cheaper new sales there's no upside to this for anyone. Since figures of £35 have been suggested for minimum 2nd user prices that seems unlikely.
Sony already won this round by having a more game focussed and powerful console, if they react appropriately to the public response Microsoft are getting they could annihilate xbone.
But do you SELL your used games? What of the people who buy new games knowing they can get about half the money back when they've finished with it. Those used games have to come from somewhere... Perhaps the developers should concentrate on making games that you actually want to keep to play again some day, you know, ones with re-play value.
Establish big player that ended both their gaming generations firmly in last place.
yes consumers have spoken. The Xbox userbase is the smalled of all the consoles, as 50% of it's console purchases are replacements...
Lets see how many go straight onto ebay once the 'sheep' realize they've bought the wrong console!
The problem is not so much the playability and life, but the initial cost. People have to trade in to reduce the cost of gaming. £40-50 is a lot compared to other media types and while a music album can last your lifetime in terms of enjoyment a game gets boring.
Games cost a lot because they have transformed from something people used to play for a couple of hours to something that they live and breathe. So to make games that are immersive and with so much depth takes a very long time and a lot of work, hence expensive.
Anctually, I think you'll find the games companies are microsofts customers, and they have definitly asked for the used game tax.
You're making the usual mistake of assuming "customers" means the people who go out and buy boxes, rather than the publishers and developers MS receive licence fees from.
This type of locked down "games ecosystem" has been predicted for at least a decade; its only now that the bandwidth is there to support it. And all you people saying "I'll buy a PS4 instead"; why do you think Sony, the acknowledged masters of botched DRM and consumer-unfriendly lockdowns, will be any different? Maybe at launch they'll sucker you in, but it won't last. This is the future.
But Microsoft said that our privacy was important... Whilst giving NSA access to their servers.
Hold on, if Microsoft lied about that why does anyone trust that their products like Windows do not have deliberate backdoors in also ?
Stallman wasn't paranoid, he was right.
Linux is the only major OS I can trust.
I wonder... if the used-game market is squashed will new-game prices reduce at all? I am not holding out any hope, but in theory it could do.
Nice to hear an intelligently expressed view JDX.
Personally I think that sale of new games is affected by availability of trade-in options. I usually buy 2nd hand, but sometimes new if it's a game that I want. The thing is, I wouldn't have bought some of those games new if I knew that I wouldn't be able to claw some of my cash back by selling on. So ultimately how much does the publisher benefit from stopping me selling my games ?
XBox / PS market share is still a big factor. If PS4 doesn't allow resale blocking it will likely gain some market share from XBox One as 2nd hand gamers switch. If MS stick to their guns but perceive this threat too they will likely pressure publishers to allow resale as, after all, MS still have to licence the games, right ?
Some good news here is that EA actually stopped their 'online code' requirement for multiplayer in games bought 2nd hand, so maybe they will allow resale and others too.
Customer: "I don't want to have to have an Internet connection..."
Microsoft (writing): "have... to... have... Internet...connection."
Customer: "I don't want anything to prevent me from buying or selling used games..."
Microsoft (writing): "prevent... buying... or... selling... used... games."
Customer: "I don't want my console spying on me..."
Microsoft (writing): "console... spying... on... me..."
Microsoft (looking up at Customer): "Yes, go on, we're listening."
I've seen some posts on slashdot from people claiming to be games developers and they're really pissed that they're not getting a cut of the sale of 2nd hand games, they somehow think they're more special than any other industry that generates products for the general public, who can then sell on those products if they feel they no longer want them (like cars etc.) without having to pay the original manufacturer a cut of that sale.
"We're always listening to our customers"
Yes, we are. We like a good laugh!
True. Never has so much apathy been generated by a console launch.
"Do you think Microsoft is in on this?"
"Nine companies are currently part of PRISM. Microsoft was the first firm to sign up on Sept 11, 2007"
".....the PRISM project, a system described as being the largest single source of information for NSA analytic reports. PRISM apparently gives the NSA access to email, chat logs, any stored data, VoIP traffic, files transfers, social networking data, and the ominously named "Special Projects"
Could this be one of those "Special Projects?
NSA: "Yeah, we read about this in our trade publication "1984". A Television device but where the state can watch its "citizens" at all hours..... Why do you think the Kinect can swivel around? Our trade publication pointed out a drawback where the subject was able to find a corner of his living room to hide in. This eliminates that oversight"
I wouldn't trust pre order records especially as that news comes from blockbuster UK who I really thought were closing down, not the best people to pre order from.
The WiiU had record breaking online pre orders reported by people offering pre orders but some of them were counting website hits as interest in pre ordering, so when sales figures came out either everyone cancelled or it was mainly bollocks to begin with.
Many of those preorders were probably destined for ebay anyway, at 1.5x-2x the original price once they announce that launch day stock will inevitably be limited.
Tell that to Nethack/Angband. I _still_ play those after more than 20 years. They didn't cost much at all..
Actually, there are a shed load of older games that I still pull out and have a merry wander around because they were just so fun (even if quite simple).. And the running theme was that they all had good gameplay, even if the graphics were like trying to look at art through the medium of paintball gun.
If only it were going to be three. But the dickheads will flock to buy them, bend over, take it like the punks that they are and thus ensure this disgraceful bullshit becomes the norm.
Where is #Anonymous when you need them....
Playing on their Xboxes ironically....
Quite true. But look on the bright side. Less load on the Microsoft authentication servers!
Even with only three accounts, I suspect Microsoft, or their partners, will find a way to render the system inoperative within three months.
Xbox One is basically catching up with PS3's Blu-Ray and TV features, with added DRM sauce.
Nothing to see here.
Its the new New Math - Neo-Math. Gates and company are pushing it into the curriculum in their charter schools in the USA. Excel makes it all understandable. Just ask Reinhard and Rogoff.
BTW: Does anyone know what the record is for cancelled pre-orders?
"This is the future."
Not necessarily. Both Sony and Microsoft have invested considerable money into the two new consoles and neither can afford heavy losses if their product does not sell well.
If the PS4 does not contain similar restrictions and sells moderately well at launch, while the XBone stumbles out the gate, then I think it is possible that Mr. Ballmer will sacrifice a few scapegoats (Inevitable anyways actually) and change their policy to something rather less restrictive.
If both consoles have these restrictions, I suspect their sales will falter soon after launch, and one company or the other will have to change their policies.
Time will tell and, as always, it largely depends on people's willingness to hand over the money. Assuming we have any money to hand over going forward.
AT BLOCKBUSTER in the UK.... Which no longer trades.....
You consider this a sign of the wider world's interest??? Really....??????
Do we really know anything about the PS4 though? Details seem to be extremely scarce. The reason the Xbox360 won the last round was because it was first to market.
I have also heard rumours that Sony was going to do something similar to this with their used games policy so this could just be how it goes!!
Personally this does not affect me in the least, I only play a handful of games, my internet connection is always turned on to my ps3 currently and thats about all she wrote. I am going to reserve judgment until we have all the facts in front of us.
Ah yes more fool you then, without the cheap secondhand game market there won't be platinum games editions, who did you think they were competing against? They sell the game for $109.95 until enough people have got tired of playing them and traded them in that the market for new copies tanks, then they release platinum editions at the same price of second hand games to keep the money rolling to them instead of the second hand game shops.
If they can kill the second hand game market they will never need to release cheap platinum edition copies to compete, they will just sell the games at $109.95 until the market is saturated and sales stop, then release the next piece of mindless entertainement at $109.95 etc etc. Gamers will either have to pay the $109.95 or simply never play the game.
Funny, they Game Publishers must think that people that sells their old videogames spend the money on booze and sluts.
No, Sirs! Most of the money obtained through this method is used to purchase new games. It also help to keep games addiction at a high level, even if the seller or the buyer are temporarily short on cash.
Now, the degree to which these companies are willing to harm/insult/mug their customers in exchange for a very small -probably under 1%- rise in profits is just mindboggling, and mindbogglingly stupid, to boot.
But it fits well with MS's policy, which in the last years gave us marvels like Windows Millennium, Windows Vista and Windows 8.0, all of them with the same design philosophy: 'We don't give a crap about the users'.
It's about time that MS stockholders begin dragging Ballmer and his toadies through the courtrooms. Their level of incompetence is fscking unbelievable.
Listening is different from caring about what they say.
Absolutely right. I just found my old copy of the original Diablo the other day and though I played the crap out of that game long ago I installed it and it's almost fresh again. I also don't need an internet connection or to register it online since I own it and installing a game and playing it less than 2 minutes without some stupid please register popup made me realize how good getting a new game used to be and why I rarely buy games now.
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