back to article Mythbusters cannonball ‘myth-fires’

If non-US readers have ever wondered how far the Alameda County bomb disposal range (beloved of Discovery Channel show Mythbusters) is from homes, it seems it’s at least close enough for a misdirected cannonball to hit a house. And then another house, a hill and a car. Mythbusters hosts Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman are red- …

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  1. Manta Bloke
    Mushroom

    Epic can't wait to see this one :)

    Glad no one was hurt.

  2. Winkypop Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Housebusters!

    How lucky can you get?

    As no one was injured, it did make me laugh.

    1. Thomas 4
      Thumb Up

      Ditto

      Exploding science is the best kind of science. Looking forward to this episode.

      1. PaulW

        Unfortunately they have said that they are going to dump this whole experience on the cutting room floor. Which is a shame since its probably up there with the best things they have done.

        1. Urh
          WTF?

          Hang on...

          "And yes, they still intend to screen the episode the cannon was built for." To me, that implies that the balls-up in question is going to be shown. Now that it's been reported, they'd be hurting their ratings if they *didn't* show it.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          ..."its probably up there with the best things they have done."

          Except the time when they made a cast of Kari's behind !

  3. Thomas 18
    Thumb Up

    Hill

    That's why you put a sand bunker behind your targets. Hope they get more than a slap the wrist for this.

    1. Ragarath

      From the article

      It sounds as if they had a load of water barrels instead of sand, but they missed them too.

      1. laird cummings
        Mushroom

        Anyone who knows ANYTHING about smoothbore cannon knows that solid spherical projectiles WILL skip and bounce - Waterbarrels are not enough - you need a trap, like the afore-mentioned sand - to prevent just this kind of thing from happening. Clearly, the Myth-busting crew did NOT do their homework.

        Myth: Blasted.

        1. Matt 95
          Stop

          Eastward

          I guess I'm puzzled as to why they were firing east, since there's MORE than adequate distance from housing when firing north.

          (The Alameda Bomb Range is a little over a mile from where I live, I see their white truck from time to time)

        2. Graham Marsden
          Boffin

          @laird cummings

          If you'd done your homework (or even have read the article) you'd have noticed that they were a) testing the velocity they could get from a home made cannon, b) had water barrels *and* an earth berm behind them.

          What appears to have gone wrong is that the velocity was much greater than they had anticipated, consequently the trajectory of the cannonball was too high, going over the water barrels and then skipping off the berm, causing it to be lofted towards the houses.

          It's easy with hindsight to think that they should have aimed it with a lower trajectory etc, but given that the officials at the Alameda County Bomb Range let them fire it (which I doubt very much they'd have done if they thought this could happen) this is clearly just an unfortunate series of events rather than a lack of "homework".

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            sorry it is still lack of homework

            ballistics is a simple, ancient and refined art. Chamber pressures for given amounts of any type of commercial powder are all published and available. Bore size, powder charge, barrel length, projectile area and projectile mass were all known and critical to both understanding whether the breech would explode and will tell you almost exactly how fast the ball will be going when it exits the muzzle.

            Once you know the muzzle velocity, barrel angle and the mass of the projectile, it's simple high school math to plot trajectory and initial impact point, minus an inch or two out because of ball friction and to the left or right depending on wind speed and time aloft. Hell, the bigger the ball the closer to mathematical ideal it gets!

            A given size charge, in a given size breech, of a given powder type and set cannon dimensions will give you very similar results every time. It's not rocket science :P

            hell that's what the first computers were used for, generating artillery tables. Any first year physics student should have done labs on this.

            Scrapheap Challenge (Junkyard Wars) even did this-homemade cannons where points were awarded on accuracy and knockdown results to a cinderblock wall.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              A for Physics, F for Engineering

              Rifling & miniballs were invented because of the nasty tendency for smoothbores to not fly in the direction that the gun or cannon was aimed in. Even a 1 deg error in firing angle makes a huge difference past 100m.

              But they wouldn't have taught you that in your first year physics classes.

          2. laird cummings
            FAIL

            @Graham Marsden

            You have just conclusively demonstrated that you don't have enough knowledge to be allowed to comment on this suhbject.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          or alternatively..

          House...Busted!

          my 1" smoothbore cannon can throw a 1 inch lead ball for over a mile and it definitely "bounces" rather than stick in dirt at anything resembling a shallow angle. It'll skip off of water at less than 45 degrees. Even Hollywood gets the bounce right every now and then. Gibson's "The Patriot" wasn't too far off with the effects of cannon on ranked infantry.

          Anonymous because, even tho it's a smoothbore muzzleloader and technically legal in 50 states, California legislators are probably working on a ban right now because of this. "Don't let a tragedy go to waste".

        4. Nameless Faceless Computer User

          Every episode I've seen involving weapons and explosions featured experts on-hand to provide guidance. This is probably a requirement of their insurance carrier, who is now paying the bills and asking, "Who approved this experiment?"

  4. Chris Miller

    Picture here

    http://bit.ly/rOEpjc

    Is it just this one, or are all US houses constructed from chicken wire, bin bags and hair clippings?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      @chris miller

      "Is it just this one, or are all US houses constructed from chicken wire, bin bags and hair clippings?"

      Outside of the big cities it does seem that not many americans or canadians have ever heard of that new fangled invention called a "brick". So they build their houses out of plywood and other cheap rubbish and then look all bemused when they get blown down in a strong wind or burnt to the ground from one spark in a forest fire. The fact that the chimney is always left standing should give them a clue to how to rebuild but it never does.

      1. /\/\j17
        Stop

        Chicken / Egg

        Most people in the US AREN'T bemused when their plywood and spit house gets burnt down by a firest fire or blown away by a hurricane/tornado.

        In large swaths of the US it's not IF you property could be caust in the local natural disaster of choice but WHEN. As such when it happens most Americans are just happy they only had to pay the insurance for/cost fo rebuilding a plywood and spit house, not the cost of insuring and rebuilding a brick one.

        In the UK people don't really understand what a hurricane (for example) is. Hell, many people in the South East of England still think Michael Fish was wrong in 1987 when he said there wasn't a hurricane coming but he wasn't. There WASN'T a hurricane, it was just a bit windy with some gusts at hurricane force on the Beaufort scale. That's quite different from a hurricane where it's not the gusts that are hurricane force but the whole thing.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @/\/\j17

          "In large swaths of the US it's not IF you property could be caust in the local natural disaster of choice but WHEN"

          Hmm , I wonder if that has something to do with what its built of? Perhaps if built of something non flammable and strong it might not burn/blow down. You never know!

          "In the UK people don't really understand what a hurricane (for example) is."

          Tell that to the people in the hebrides where winds can consistently top 100mph for hours at a time

          in a winter storm. And guess what - they don't build their houses from plywood. Perhaps because they've got a brain.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            no one builds them like the Cheops

            There are areas where brick is impractical to use (or any other heavy material) due to the composition of the ground. You can lay a foundation down, but when you're close to an underground water system and have sand for a lawn, you make due in order to live in that area. I live in South Carolina and it's usually sand or clay. We also have people living in flood zones because they decided it was a good idea to build on swampland. There was a reason it was swampland, much like there is a reason that the Misssissippi hasn't maintained the same channel over time. Really no different than when I lived in Hawaii. The colonial houses had small windows and low ceilings like their northern U.S. counterparts. It was one big heat trap. My favorite was a book on how to put out a burning woman (Victorian style clothing while cooking in said homes by a big fireplace) at one of the mission house tours.

      2. Pet Peeve
        FAIL

        There are lots and lots of brick homes in America. Bear in mind that this one is less than a mile from a BOMB RANGE. Not gonna be a palace.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Insulation

        Often poorly insulated too, even though they have much harsher winters. Noticed that when I visited relatives in Canada.

        1. Matt 95
          Stop

          Temperature

          Harsher winters? Bay Area?

          What type of harsh winter are you referring to?

          I've never worn anything more than a light jacket while living in the same area as this 'cannon' house. Winter is pretty weak here.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            harsh winters?

            dude harsh winters all the time in the Bay Area....it gets all the way down to 33 degrees F sometimes. Harshes my buzz when I gotta go outside to smoke.

      4. Efros

        True

        However most locales would have to bring the bricks from far away as brickyards are relatively rare in the US. Think importing bricks from Warsaw to build your house in Cambridge. Solution use local materials.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Lumberjacks

        Have you noticed how big the forests are in Canada..?

      6. kain preacher

        California has lots of earth quakes that crack brick. Places in the US were you have hurricanes or tornadoes you find the houses are made of brick.

        1. Jay Clericus

          Recall seeing photos and movie clips of american disasters where tornadoes have hit neighbourhoods and nothing but wooden scraps are left :( they rebuild in wood and get blown down in a few years or burnt in a fire.

          Have seen the aftermath of a tornado in the uk, might be a couple of roof structures blown to pits, the rest of the houses maybe a few roof tiles and not a lot else

          Was not aware that the californian towns where they have skyscrapers were all made from wood, technology exists to make modern structures earthquake resistant :)

          1. Olafthemighty
            Headmaster

            @Jay

            True enough, but our tornadoes are shit.

            1. Andrew Oyston 1

              Tornadoes

              And there's me thinking it's just Lewis who hates the Tornado :-)

          2. Graham Dawson Silver badge

            Jay, the strongest tornado recorded in the UK was no more than an F0. That's the smallest they bother to record. Typically we'll get one or two a year at most.

            A minor F0 will do a little bit of damage. Suck off a few tiles, blow over a wall maybe.not much more.

            Now, think about how many tornadoes the US gets in a year. Most of those will be greater than F1, and a good (and dangerous) number will be F5, the quarter-mile wide monsters that destroy everything in their path. An F5 would turn a brick terrace into a neat pile of rubble on the other side of the street, turn every tree on the road upside down and pile all the cars on top of each other just for fun.

            Compare like with like.

            Now, as for why we use brick, I'll tell you: weather and resources. We're a wet country and we have lots and lots of clay, whereas the south-western united states is a dry country that has lots of timber. In cool, wet environment the most appropriate materials are those that keep out moisture, require little maintenance to avoid rain damage, and which still provide decent insulation. Brick fulfils all three requirements very well.

          3. wayne 8
            Stop

            And that earthquake tolerant technology suitable for a multi-mega-million dollar large tower is not financially prudent for a house to hold one family.

          4. Jaybus

            Having experienced tornados twice in my life in the southern US, I assure you that not all tornados are created equal. Only an underground bunker could possibly have survived the F5 that went through Birmingham, Alabama. After all, it isn't the wind speed in excess of 350 km/h so much as the minivan striking the house at 150 km/h.

      7. laird cummings
        FAIL

        @boltar

        Appropriate technology for appropriate local conditions.

        Brick construction is slow and expensive, and in the Bay area, inappropriate. That's earthquake country, which is a disaster for brick homes. Unless you LIKE having to rebuild major portions of your house every few years..? Most folks don't.

        Frame homes go up fast, are generally resistant to most minor quakes, and any damage from same is usuallty easily patched. If a major quake comes along, a frame house is much less likely to crush the occumants to death when it comes down - indeed, it's less likely to come all the way down at all. Brick, on the other hand, can be *counted* on to come down and kill a few folks.

        Also: with the cost of housing - and the need for rapid expansion of housing - in the Bay area, brick is doubly a bad idea. Those homes are owned by average wage earners, not Vanderbilts.

        The chickenwire is the anchor matrix for the plaster stucco - any home builder or normally experienced person would recognize it, and stucco is a *very* appropriate technology for the area - cheap, effective, and easily repaired. Indeed, look at how *little* damage was done by a 30lb cannonball: small holes, easily patched by anyone with basic carpentry skills. No splintering, no structural damage, just a small neat hole. Brick, ont the other hand, would have shattered, and cast fragments and projectiles all about, greatly increasing the risk of injury, and have required an extensive rebuild by skilled (and expensive) tradesmen.

        IOW, you have NO bloody idea what you're talking about.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          WTF?

          "Brick construction is slow and expensive, and in the Bay area, inappropriate. That's earthquake country, which is a disaster for brick homes."

          Is it? How come the non prefab concrete city centre isn't levelled every time there's a tremor then?

          "Also: with the cost of housing - and the need for rapid expansion of housing - in the Bay area, brick is doubly a bad idea. Those homes are owned by average wage earners, not Vanderbilts"

          Average wage earners in europe manage to afford brick. Are you lot so hard up in the US that you can only afford cheap plywood? Do your cars have Flintstone style holes in the floor to put your feet through as well?

          "Brick, ont the other hand, would have shattered, and cast fragments and projectiles all about, greatly increasing the risk of injury, and have required an extensive rebuild by skilled (and expensive) tradesmen."

          So your killer argument against brick houses is the danger of shrapnel from someone firing a cannonball at it is it? Following that line of argument I might argue that brick is probably more pirate cutlass proof than wood.

          "IOW, you have NO bloody idea what you're talking about."

          Don't I? Oh well, you carry on enjoying living in your medieval construction method home. Meanwhile I'll enjoy the benefit of a double brick wall and proper insulation.

          1. Tinker Tailor Soldier

            Former Brick-loving South African...

            Which I am. Turns out that in the US, sky-scrapers are built out of steel and the masonry is cladding. Steel flexes nicely and withstands quakes. In downtown Seattle in the pissy little 6.8 Nisqually quake, all of the old brick buildings rained their bricks down on the streets. They don't build those anymore.

            Smaller buildings might be reinforced concrete, but never brick, except as cladding.

            Now it's still a puzzle to me why Floridians build with wood. That's just economics. You used all your wood to build ships to form an empire.... thanks for that BTW as one of the remnants.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @Boltar

            What are you on about?

            You've forgotten (or never heard of) the great San Francisco earthquake of 1906. The city was built almost entirely of brick, and the earthquake transformed it into a huge heap of rubble.

            Current large buildings on San Francisco are NOT simply concrete... They have massive steel internal reinforcement and rest on foundations composed of metal springs, or on rollers to permit the building to withstand earthquakes of as much as 8 on Richter's scale. As you might imagine, this is very expensive and not practicable for houses.

            Indeed wood frame houses are as safe as , well, houses in a actively seismic area. Construction of houses in California requires the use of plywood or Oriented Strand Board (OSB) sheathing with specific metal reinforcement as stiffening for the frame. The State studies the effects of major earthquakes on various construction methods, and the cannonballed house's construction was no doubt appropriate for the regulations in effect at the time of construction.

            Pray your massive brick walls never encounter a good shake test!

          3. wayne 8
            FAIL

            > Is it? How come the non prefab concrete city centre isn't levelled every time there's a tremor then?

            Scan this:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_engineering#Earthquake-Resistant_construction

          4. southern skies
            Alert

            Bricks don't stay up in EQs

            Check out Central Christchurch (NZ) for what happens when you have a lot of unreinforced masonry around. Half our central city has been or is being demolished so it doesn't kill anyone else.

            In EQ zones, I would far rather live in a timber framed house. It won't fall down and kill you in your bed when a mag 7.2 EQ hits at 4:35am.

            Brick buildings came down all over Chch on Feb 22 and caused a lot of the deaths and injuries here that day. Mortar doesn't hold bricks together very well when it is subjected to a lot of seismic shaking. Additonal reinforcing is required to add strength to all types of masonry and concrete structures.

            How about, before criticising what you don't understand, you should accept that building methods differ around the world because the local conditions differ too.

            What is obvious and useful in the UK may not be so useful in other places!

      8. This post has been deleted by its author

      9. Matt 95
        Facepalm

        Brick

        Heh, brick does very poorly here on the Hayward faultline.

      10. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        @ Boltar

        Hmmmm, outside of the UK, there are these not-so-newfangled natural disasters called "earthquakes", and a brick building is the worst thing you can possibly be inside of or around in a quake. So people build their houses out of cheap rubbish like plywood that flexes in an earthquake instead of literally shaking apart at the seams like brick and mortar does. The fact that an disproportionately high number of residential earthquake deaths occur because brick chimneys collapse and fall through the roof onto occupants or onto people standing outside should give you a clue on how to build in an earthquake zone, but it probably won't.

        (This is especially true considering that the Alameda County test range is probably 5 miles from the Hayward fault and about 25-30 miles from the San Andreas fault.)

        1. Don Casey

          Closer yet

          I believe the Calavaras fault is the closest to Dublin... maybe a mile or two.

          Has been known to generate magnitude 6 quakes.

      11. Scott Manley
        FAIL

        This is earthquake country however.

        In earthquakes brick buildings fall down.

        'The fact that the wood buildings are always left standing should give them a clue to how to rebuild but it never does.'

      12. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        If ignorance is bliss...

        Read the article, mate. This story occurred in California. Bricks do not stay in a convenient pile during or after an earthquake.

        The reason for the chicken wire is that it is common to use stucco or adobe in hot climates.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You mean like most British houses are build after 17th century designs and from shoddy materials (simple bricks, plasterboard and chipboard)?

      1. Bluenose

        Bricks???

        You're lucky my parents house is made of concrete slush which was poured between two planks to make the walls. When you strip of the plaster you can see the street through the air holes, 1960's quality workmanship at its best.

        1. NomNomNom

          "Bricks??? You're lucky my parents house is made of concrete slush which was poured between two planks to make the walls."

          *Concrete* slush??? You're lucky to have such a luxury, our walls were filled with paper mache and we had to hold the roof up with our own hands

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Wood here

      Here they're made of wood*, covered with a layer of styrofoam insulation then protected with plastic siding. Older roofs are tiled, but now commonly they're made of aluminum**.

      * This is the Pine Tree State and they weren't kidding when they gave it that nickname.

      ** When in Rome, you know. Well mostly not Rome, since that's just a small town with less than 1,000 people.

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