No, we don't want iPads
But we also don't want US$600 tablets either. I just saw a review somewhere of a "budget" $300 Android tablet.
$300 is not budget. That is what a standard model tablet should go for. "Budget" is somewhere around $150-$250.
If you need any further proof that the iPad will continue to dominate the tablet market, here's a bit of news that should remove all doubt: Foxconn, the Chinese supplier of Apple's fabulously successful fondleslab, will ship 20 million iPad 2s this quarter. So says DigiTimes when reporting Foxconn's earnings – $945.9m – for …
But we also don't want US$600 tablets either. I just saw a review somewhere of a "budget" $300 Android tablet.
$300 is not budget. That is what a standard model tablet should go for. "Budget" is somewhere around $150-$250.
If you're including, without qualification, the crowd, your statements wrong. Or pehaps you think Rik is lying abou the relative sales reports.
I'd agree, many Android tablet makers have fallen for the "If Apple can sell at that price, so can we" and produce devices at the same price or higher that arn't as "good" as the iPad resulting in people looking at them and going "If I'm going to spend that much, I might as well get an iPad".
Unless your device is definatly that mythical "iPad killer", your not going to get away with pricing it the same as the iPad. Simple.
The recent Touchpad firesale shows people are interested in alternatives if you get the price right, though I think HP went too low in that case. But produce a good quality tablet, and it doesn't have to be an iPad killer just something good, for between $300 and $400 and you could gain a large market share.
And Amazon might be poised to do just that..
Isnt the BOM for an IPad or Transformer about $280-$350
I think appull will find themselves disappointed. 10 million sure, they same idiots may be convinced to buy another "new" model. Or maybe another one for the wife or kids. I could even believe as much as 15 million. I simply don't think (especially in this economy where the elite and rich are an ever shrinking group of uber rich people) that there are that many millions of people with $600 to spend on a expensive remote control/oversized smart phone.
$250 for the HPtouch seemed like a bargain, and $300-$350 to be an early adopter of a still proving itself technology is probably fair.
Don't judge HP by retarded Leo Apocolypse just because he made HP stop selling them, doesn't mean they weren't making great headway and on the verge of making some great product footprint.
$600 for a 16-32GB device is too much. I have a $40 pocket knife on my key chain with that much memory in it (LITERALLY). You telling me at mass market prices the ARM CPU and a screen should cost $500??? (with $60 for battery case and left over parts)
My, my, aren't we judgmental.
I drive a cheap-ish Civic. I waited years till the LCD/Plasma HD TVs came down from $3-4K to $1.5K (and then waited for a bargain). My mid-upper end stereo and speakers came cheap from a closeout sale. I don't fly, I rent my appt and hate bling. My electronics are hardly early adopter material. Too cheap to have a data plan on my smartphone as well, WIFI does fine.
News to you. If I feel like an iPad (or another tablet) because I commute 1 hr by train, instead of driving, and want to relax, browse code or play games during that time, that's my bizness. Not yours. I don't tell you how to spend your money, do I?
Now, f*** off.
See typical egoist.... thinks I'm talking about you personally ;-)
Again just sayin' I'm glad there aren't 20 million more of you than last year.
And if you think $1,500 for a TV screen is reasonable (even on sale) and makes you a common man, you are way out-of-wack with the masses who would have to choose to live on the street and not pay rent/mortgage for several months to have that kind of extra money... if they have a job right now even.
Pull your face away from the sweet jobsian glow for a just sec on your next trip and see how many plods riding the train already have a Ipad, let alone thinking of getting a second one. It's not like they are going to sprout a spare $600 in the next few months just to play games on the way to work.
From your description you sound like the main group fueling their sales, with your "mid-high end" stereo and Ipads on the train... not an elitist, but just wants to play one in public.
"$600 to spend on a expensive remote control/oversized smart phone" ... "$600 for a 16-32GB device is too much. I have a $40 pocket knife on my key chain with that much memory in it"
Nice comparisons. I gather you don't know (or possibly care) about what it can be used for, right?
Next time try "I have a rock that weights the same and is free".
That old "I don't want it and I don't want you to have it either" mentality.. it's getting old.
Think what you want. I can afford what I have, I pay my taxes and I don't grumble that my taxes are too high. What I earn I earn because I am good at my job and work hard at it.
Tired of seeing losers judge other people because they use this tablet, that OS, that phone, that browser. I know we are techies, but I didn't think we were fashionistas.
I don't think people are defined by their choice of consumer tech. Do you?
I'll judge my peers by their brains instead. And perhaps their choice of business tech.
So, mind your own effing business and stop being the Thought Police. Besides it's not as if you are being brilliantly innovative in doing so.
p.s. and strangely enough, one big recurring expense of mine is a donation to street kid shelters.
See a rock that weighs the same makes you sound kinda dumb, where as my comment was a little more apt. Ok, I'll admin maybe a bit mean spirited even, sure they are more than remotes, but I was taking it for granted that everyone believes you can view web pages and play games with them.
My point was a damn knife has that much memory on a built in flash drive, the memory is not the cost.
I'm happy having people want things I don't want (not like i'm the thought police or anything ;-).
What I did say in my post that there are only so many people who do, and its my belief that most of them already own their fondleslab,
I may be speaking a bit glib here to get a rise out of the appull fanbois, but really you all are assigning me some tired arguments that I didn't ever make.
We will see this xmas if Apple does indeed sell 20-30 million more of these things.
I'm happy enough to base my opinions largely on the facts at hand.
Never called you out by name or said you cant buy what you want. Where are you even getting the thought police banner from?
I think its an elitist device - it does cost $600, and that's without ANY apps, cables, etc.
I am sure if all the fanbois posted the ACTUAL costs of what they PAID to get their fondleslab to "just do" what they want it to the REAL costs would easily rise above $1000 or more to buy and use one of these. I mean really we haven't even mentioned the $50-$100 or so a month if you want this thing to work on the net outside of your house that the wireless carrier is going to want.
My initial argument is that the number of people that CAN and are willing to shell out $1000 for an appull branded device are quickly slimming down. And unless this next 20 million have some new "must have" features that Jobs can hawk to the believers, I just don't see the current customers running out and buying another one.
You are totally entitled to buy what you want with your money, never said otherwise. I am however allowed to think your not so bright for feeding that company as well though.
I've only seen a couple Android tablets that I wouldn't call BETTER than the iPad. It's all about capabilities, and the iPad doesn't have many compared to Android tablets.
Comes with a USB cable and a AC adapter. Comes with mail, web browser, youtube, calendar, can't remember what other apps.
But please don't let facts get in the way of your witty arguments. It still does not do what you want, therefore it is worthless and people who buy it are idiots (yes, your words in another post!)
As dumb as using "appull" in your posts and "taking it for granted that everyone believes"?
Paid 599 + taxes for mine. Bought around Us$ 40 in misc apps for it -- including Scrabble and Angry Birds.
Then again I bought it to be a media consuming device. I have computers to code and run simulations and other computer stuff. It just does what I want. Just to make sure you understand, I didn't buy it to do what *you* want.
But since I don't see myself as a fanboi you can just discard my opinion. I just know the difference between a tablet and a computer.
And yes I thought Ipad buyers were idiots for buying such a walled garden device...but hey I guess you're the thought police, and I can't have an opinion? Or did the comment just hit too close to home?
It's not that the device doesn't do what I want (never mentioned such a thing) it just I think people are idiots to give money to that corporation in general....
And since I have bought a touch in the last year (at a ridiculous $300 for a damn MP3 player none the less) I AM sadly ONE OF THOSE IDIOTS.
So YOU haven't paid more, I think my argument holds weight still... In apples closed environment you HAVE to buy accessories from them, and that's where they really SUCK, especially if you need a simple dock, or to get pictures off an SD card, or just replace the single proprietary usb Cable it comes with. ($87 for just those 3 accessories)
BTW what do carry this around in? Nothing, just loose in your backpack or pocket? or did you forget the $39 you paid for the case already?
Want/need to do M$ office apps?) an extra $149 (My old Pre phone does this BTW for $0
Want a keyboard (not even wireless mind you) another $49 ($99 for one that folds and can actually go with you)
Want to plug into HDMI TV another $35, need VGA too, that an extra $29, and another $39 if you need component too (though to be fair just one of these should suffice for most people)
Want a simple case to keep you pretty fondleslab from scratches simple rubber cover $39 ($69 in leather) The dumb sleeve is still $34 and fancier cases (like hard plastic shell) can go upwards of $130
Simple AC power plug another $29 ($24 for car charger though :-)
Oh and worse:
a simple SD card adapter to get your pics on the damned device another $29
A plastic dock to hold the thing upright $29 (or $19 for just two plastic feet that picture frames come free with)
and $29 for a replacement USB cable
$50 was the cheapest speakers I could find, and I doubt their sound quality.. its more like $300 to get ones that would sound decent
Ever travel?... $39 for the power adapters
So I would say MS Office* (you do want to be able to edit a .doc file at some point right?) a replacement "USB" cable, a simple "smart" cover and dock, an adapter to plug into a TV and to get pictures from your camera (all things they show BTW on the commercials) you would end up at more like $750 or so (with minimal feature most people would expect it comes with), and Office would bring that to $900, want a folding keyboard and speakers and you are past $1050
And that's without ANY apps (except office as I mentioned)
And if you want a leather case instead of rubber its $69, headphones with a mike are like $79 and other premium options are even worse of a gouge
(*Though I guess you could buy their crappy iwork for $89 or so)
How long did it take for Android phones to sell more than iPhones? Yet Android is more advanced than at the time; it should have been faster... Maybe there is only room for one successful tablet.
Sorry marketing mavens, I do not want an Ipad or anything else made by Crapple.
I favor function over form so I must be some kind of oddball engineer that does not fit your focus group.
I want a tablet that has a true operating system, that runs programs (not "apps"). Windows or Linux but something that will be supported for years to come not WebOS or some other twaddle that is bound for obsolescence in a year or two. Could be Android but I want to run Word, Excel & Outlook or something compatible (Okay maybe not all 3 at the same time).
I want it to have decent storage (that can be user upgraded) flash or disk is fine, at least 2 USB Ports, 1080P HDMI output (from a decent video chip with it's OWN RAM), no proprietary bullshit charging or other connectors, at least 2 gig memory (that can be user upgraded), Wireless and hardwired LAN and Bluetooth, give me a screen that is able to show a full view of an 8-1/2" by 11" document without zooming or panning and last a battery that will give 8 to 12 hours of reasonable operation.
Is that too much to ask? I don't think it is any different than a cheap notebook with a touch screen display except no hinge to break.
I *think* it is too much to ask... Cheap notebooks don't have 8 to 12 hours of operation, for one. Or half of what you asked.
A train engineer, perhaps? Nobody in the field wants to run that trash; some are forced to.
An edition of Word that can run on a tablet? Not probable.
A battery that can be replaced when it dies after 18 months!
sorry but why don't you buy a small notebook and get over with it?
If such a thing were possible it would be on the shelves already. Time to grow up and recognise that perfection doesn't exist in engineering, if it did this month's "must have" would not be out of date by next month. A fact which applies to Apple as much as anybody, but slightly less so. One good thing about Apple stuff is that it continues to perform on-spec for as long as it lasts. All the other gear I own always seems to get slower and creakier as time goes by, eventually giving up the ghost about 18 months - 3 years down the line.
Apple products don't do everything, I'm happy accept that, because what my iPad doesn't do I don't really need, and what it does do, it does very well. Since we got an iPad (iPad 1, about a month before 2 came out, duh) we haven't opened the lid of the laptop to do anything - not once! Absolutley no need. Though we once had a race to see who could google something quicker, my wife on the iPad and me on the laptop. She'd finished and got herself a G&T before the lappy had booted enough to use the web, found the network and become useful. And I got bored installing updates and never got as far as doing anything as useful as actually using it for anything anyway. Gave up and had a G&T of my own :)
The problem with trying to cram every known feature into a product is that you end up with an Inspector Gadget device which is too big, too heavy and if the rest of the world's products are anything to go by, too damn ugly.
Thats the highest amount of downvotes i've ever seen here, by far.
Guess the comments section of this site hasn't become the raving anti-Apple shithole i thought it had.
"Is that too much to ask? "
No, I dont think that is too much to ask either.
If people stopped asking for improvements, nothing would get better. While it may not be possible today, if we dont set out what we want we will end up with second rate, rushed to market crap that doesnt achieve any of the things we need - such as a tablets without USB ports.... oh. wait....
...just buy the laptop you apparently want?
In fact, I believe I have seen ads for a laptop you can turn into a windows tablet.
From Dell I think...
True HDMI output takes a pretty hefty graphics engine, (say 1ghz, chip and 1-2GB of fast GDDR5 RAM) Anything less and you are cutting down frame rates, or otherwise "cheating" the image quality somehow. And beyond the cost ($100 or so) you are sucking down some serious power. I have an old single core 3ghz desktop with 1.x GHz video card and 1 gig of RAM an IT CANT do proper HDMI (mainly due to ancient AGP interface but still gives you an idea) and I even tried dropping a $120 something video upgrade a year or so back) It can play last years (or the year before that maybe) with some decent resolution, but 1080P video choke and are not fluid.
Agree with most of the rest of your checklist though:
*Full page of paper size (with a frame/margin that is only a few cm at most)
*2 STANDARD USB ports (usb 3 support would be nice, but USB 2 would do)
*2-4 GB of RAM and 30-60GB of storage (16GB with SD slot to expand would be best)
*1 to 2GHz CPU and ideally dual-core (or four) to allow for some real multitasking)
I could do without the hardwired LAN (it is a tablet after all, and you have to cut unnecessary costs
Could do without bluetooth myself, but I can see how this would be a need for most for print/music
If HP made a new touchpad with an AMD Llano processor (Video and CPU combined) you could maybe pull this off and get it closer to $400 or so. WebOS IS LINUX, just with a diffent GUI than GNOME. HomeBrew apps let you have access to the Linux shell, and there was really a LOT of apps on the way through this until F%^cking idiot LEO the cowardly lion Apocolypse shot it in the head for no damn good reason other than his fear and lack of understanding.
He forgot to ask for a price under $100 and a free flying car. Truly an "oddball engineer".
"Not for less than $600 you won't with those specs"
I want a tablet computer; a fully functional computer that can run windows. If it can run something else that has low power consumption when I'm just browsing the web, that would be nice.
We have an iPad in the house, but it isn't interesting to me, Android tablets don't really interest me either. I would have bought a TouchPad for $99 (not interested at $399 ) but they were all sold out.
If companies keep launching things like an $800 Android tablet that also requires a 2 year contract, then Apple will stay on top; If they start producing fully functional computers at a price point similar to the iPad, they might find a way into the market.
Apparently form over function is what most people want but more to the point, people want technology that just works. At work, my desktop dell went to crap and had to be replaced. I cannot tell you how many times my HTC EVO 4G has soft reset itself while I was attempting to just use a program. The ling lacks the storage space to make any real use of apps (1mb. Less with Sprint's crapware on board), and even though it has an SD Card slot with an 8GB SD card installed, I cannot move all or even most of the apps to the SD card for use. I'm definitely going to get an HP Touchpad in the next wave of the fire sale. I'm not paying more for anyone's tablet than the price of a new fully functional laptop ($300). I can see why many are willing to make due with an iPad. I'm just not one of them, but if Sprint gets the next iPhone and it is a world phone, I may have to cross over to the "Dark Side".... .
"a fully functional computer that can run windows"
You can already buy that. They have been around for a decade. Nobody bought them. Or if they did buy them they ended up just using them like a laptop because they were crap as tablets.
The feature list that you (and Dan Paul above you) demand (Windows and all it's attendant hardware requirements) results in a product that runs hot and is power hungry
The more batteries you add to try and extend battery life serves to make the tablet even bigger, heavier and more expensive.
What you end up with is an expensive, hot, heavy device with a short battery life and an interface that is not suited to a touch screen at all. Then to add insult to injury, you go and add alll your vaunted Windows applications you will quickly discover that they rely more than you might think on keyboard shortcuts and mouse functions such as the scroll wheel to be usable.
Overall, the Windows tablet user experience is crap, and nobody bought into the idea despite 10 years of MS and its OEMs pushing the idea on the market.
Yet despite this, we still regularly see people who demand Windows tablets as if they have never been tried (and failed) before.
As things stand, it is impossible to make a tablet with the price, form factor and battery life of an ipad and put Windows on it.
It simply can't be done.
Maybe Win8 on ARM might make it but I have my doubts about that too.
The final irony is that be if you did have an ARM Win8 tablet none of your precious Windows programs would work on it anyway.
It's just as well guys like you aren't running the PC OEMs because focusing your efforts on Windows tablets is a sure recipe for FAIL. Oh, hold on . . .
If you've no use for an iPad, why even think about them? It's a piece of technology that does stuff. If you don't want what it does, get over it. Is the reason I don't wear a watch any more.
More to the point, too much of the Windows UI relies on a two button mouse and drag and drop. You can't do either on a tablet. A tablet doesn't know if you're prodding with left finger or right finger. It also can't tell the difference between "move cursor" and "drag cursor".
So Windows, as it stands, is a non-starter on a tablet. Any attempts to make it so far have been kludgy work arounds that don't "work".
As much as I like ripping on M$ it should be pointed out also Intel is just as responsible for why windows tablets are such fail especially right now. Intel has never been able to make a sub 1 watt chip worth a crap. They still believe in fans for all computing devices.
They are going to sell them for £99 as well?
I'll have a couple.
When I said £99 I meant that I would pay £99, period.
Not that I would sign a contract with my own blood and have to pay £99 a month!
Well, until you show them a Smeg or a Dyson or a Vax or a Henry or...
...and then they'll still call it a Hoover.
...as opposed to the toys that we once called PDAs and MDAs before Apple's spin machine went into overdrive, still exist. Problem is, they are far from cheap. This is probably why they never took off to begin with; why pay two grand when you can pay 500 quid for the same thing minus the gimmicky rotate-and-fold touch screen?
I said I dont want an iPad, I want a tablet
is there proof that these will be bought? no. all thats been said is that they will SHIP 20m ipads - just like the Android 'shipping' - it doesnt mean they'll be bought. what happens if there is a hidden saturation level and all iPad 'wanters' run out after 3m more have been sold?
already I have seen that I can now just buy an iPad in a store where previously they've always been sold out...
... while the other tablet manufacturers sell them through retail stores they don't own and which have their own warehousing.Tht's why these manufacturers have to report SHIPPED units.
Watch out for the downvotes!!
, you just called out the emperor by saying "saturation" and observing that these things are actually on the shelves now for anyone who wants it. Don't stop the FURY! don't talk about a stop to the FURY! the FRENZY must continue, or I won't be able to give appull money this xmas.!!!.
oh wait I'm drooling on my Ipad...
As much as I dislike apple, (particularly because of how they treat developers) people do want iPads, and as long as I'm paid enough, I will write apple targeted sites and apps.
The eee Pad is comfortably beating those other Android tablet sales figures, AFAIK, but that doesn't suit the story, so perhaps it needs overlooking....
As reported by the Reg, Asus sold 7,000 last month in Western Europe. But who need fact when we can go with what you know.
Is that why they have increased their production run of them from 300k to 400k a month? Just keep drinking the apple flavoured coolaid. I wonder how much apple a paying for puff pieces like this article?
OK, this is purely anecdotal, but I threw a big party last weekend, as we do every August Bank Holiday. Just about everyone who comes along is connected to the IT inductry at first or second remove, and there's a lot of gadget freaks, because those are the circles I move in.
I didn't do a formal count, but I know for a fact there were three EeePad owners, one HP Touchpad owner (full price), two HP Touchpad owners (fire-sale, and probably thus not relevant), one Galaxy Tab owner, and one owner of multiple cheap chinese knock-offs. And about 7 iPad owners.
From that extremely small sample, I would have to draw the conclusion that Apple aren't having it all their own way.
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