back to article Will the looters 'loose' their benefits?

The coalition government's e-petitions website is having a bit of a fail again today. Presumably everyone is trying to sign up to the petition calling for all convicted rioters to "loose all benefits", including use of spell-check we assume. We did manage to sneak in earlier and the vote stood at just short of 95,000. Should …

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  1. ZapB
    FAIL

    Scalable?

    Perhaps the government need a more scalable web-hosting solution. 95k POST requests is not really a large number to process. Or maybe the politicians didn't want to come back from holiday so they sent in the colour-blind work experience lad to do some Ethernet cable re-routing...

  2. Matthew 17

    there just thugs

    innit.

  3. Winkypop Silver badge
    Stop

    Sorry, something went wrong.

    Civilisation has left for a holiday.

    Please come back later when the hoards are asleep and civility may return.

    1. Adrian Jones

      Where just thugs?

      (Are just thugs better than unjust thugs?)

    2. Marky W
      Facepalm

      Every f*cking time

      Every, and I mean *every* time the government puts up a shiny new website it falls over due to 'unexpected demand'.

      If you can't see the problem with that statement I can only assume you are a government IT provider.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        What problem?

        Government employees specified the load - they built it to that and didn't question (probably because anyone who questions such is too experienced to work at their rates and they'd sack anyway for killing the goose), now Government has to pay more of their suppliers astronomical costs to solve it.

        So not a problem for IT suppliers until Government wise up - which is likely to be when Hell freezes over

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        A cynic might think

        If it gets to 100,000 the government do something. It has reached 90,000 and oh, dear, something is stopping it getting to 100,000. How unfortunate.....

        1. BorkedAgain
          Thumb Up

          @Tarquin - Colour me cynic...

          ...that's exactly what I was thinking...

      3. fajensen Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        The Normal is "Unexepected" for morons.

        Same thing with the economy: Every downturn is "unexpected".

    3. Danny 5
      Stop

      i don't believe that

      not this large a number.

      We tend to forget that most of us, if the circumstances are right, would be part of the looting masses, we just think we wont because we have a good life. it's easy to judge from your comfy chair.

      And how would taking their benefits help? these are people who mostly have very little already, taking what little they do have, will only fuel the fire.

      now obviously i'm a lefty, hippy treehugger, so my point of view is slightly biased.

      1. Justin Clements

        very simple

        The majority of them will surplant lost benefits by getting a job.

        And please don't tell me there are no jobs.

        Why is it that an Afghan or Iraqi can travel 3,000 to the UK on next to no money and still find employment in this country? Yet our own feckless can't even be bothered to get on a bus and look for work.

        1. Danny 5
          Meh

          easy explanation

          Those people coming from abroad are seen as hard working and eager, while your local punks are "a bunch of thugs", who would you rather hire?

          they will get a job to get money? how's about they'll commit even more crimes? what do YOU think is more likely?

        2. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

          Simple

          Because us natives usually have a family to look after/neglect, and are not prepared to earn min wage for 50-60 hrs a week work and to rent 1/2 a room to sleep in.

          Plus all those heart rending guardian readers would throw a hissy fit if they had to pay extra for 5lbs of organic potatoes at waitrose to cover the extra cost of hiring british labour to dig them up

          1. Paul was already taken
            WTF?

            Slime

            If you want to earn more than minimum wage then get an education. Otherwise stop bleating about not being able to get a decent job. Either way don't try to blame the world for your fecklessness.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Sadly not

              "If you want to earn more than minimum wage then get an education".

              That turns out not to be the case. It seems you are parroting the politically correct mouthings of the establishment (T. Blair, et al).

              In fact you will find that most of the people who worked hard and got themselves deeply in debt to get an education never made much money. Whereas almost all the rich people in Britain today did so without any education - or at any rate without using what education they had. Alan Sugar? Richard Branson? David and Victoria Beckham? J.K. Rowling? The spud-faced nipper, whatever his name is? Not to mention the hordes of singing, dancing, acting, whatever "stars".

              What you need to get rich is not education. It is (1) the ability to schmooze successfully and sell ice to Eskimos; (2) a fixed determination to get rich.

              No less an authority than Mark Twain told us, over a century ago: "To succeed in life, you need two things: ignorance and confidence".

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Ivory Towers

                How's the view from up there?

                Anyway, we need people like the looters and the unemployed scum, because to quote Pacino,

                'You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your f***in' fingers, and say "that's the bad guy."'

                Because we could never be like 'them'. No, we're the good guys. We're so much better. Not because of environment or anything else like that.

                If I was born to a single mother who has never had a job in her life. A mother who thinks drugs are more important than food. If I never knew who my father was. If I don't even know anyone who's even had a job. If all my friends are in gangs. If the only people I know who have money are drug dealers. And then I see bankers getting million pound bonuses for fucking economies up. I see MPs getting grands for duck ponds and moats. Yeah, I would never think about looting something. No, I would just get myself a perfect job and a perfect lifestyle. Because those who don't, its because they're scum. Simple as that.

              2. James Micallef Silver badge

                @Tom Welsh

                To get stinking rich, yes you're right, all that is needed is confidence verging on the arrogance and determination. However that's just a minority of people who will actually do that, even if they know how to, because it's feckin' hard work.

                To get well off enough for a decent life, education is required, which is also in most cases hard work.

                Most of the rioting scumbags, however, are allergic to work

              3. Andus McCoatover
                Windows

                "No less an authority than Mark Twain"

                "Counted twice"? I wouldn't exactly describe Mark Twain as "An authority".

                Thought he just wrote books.

          2. David Neil

            So what your saying is...

            The benefit system should be overhauled so that it is on a sliding scale so that going out to work means you are actually better off?

            We then won't hear any more bleating from people saying "why should I work a 40 hour week to end up £10 ahead but have to pay full rent and council tax"?

            Sorry that won't happen, we have a society that has been raised over generations that the state will provide and if you stamp your feet and throw a tantrum the worst that will happen is a stern look - listen to the consistent message coming back from those who were involved over the past week, we cannot be touched, theres nothing you can do about it.

            A whole generation of people who have grown up with the moral compass of a 5 year old at his grans.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "please don't tell me there are no jobs"

          Why not? Does the truth hurt?

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          re: very simple

          "The majority of them will surplant lost benefits by getting a job." - I doubt it, more likely they'd just rob more.

          I completely agree with your other point - I get served my cup of coffee on the way to work by a Ukrainian, and the cleaners in the building are from a variety of African / Eastern European countries. The fact that these people grew up in a poorer country than ours, and yet can learn a foreign language & travel 1000s of miles looking for work, in less time than the locals can get off the couch to apply for a job.

          Perhaps it's time for a one in, one out immigration policy. Much to the BNP/UKIP/etc's disgust I'm sure, but there's a huge swath of English people I'd gladly swap for any variety of foreigners who actually want to provide for themselves and their family.

        5. vic 4
          FAIL

          And please don't tell me there are no jobs.

          There are not enough to go round. Simple, anyone who really thinks that the majority of the unemployed are layabouts who have no idea of what society is like beyond their blinkered and closed social outlook. Look at any area that has had some major industry closures, entire towns are been devastated by the impact. My area has seen unemployment got from around 5% to about 11% since this crisis started, you seriously suggesting an extra 5-6% of people just decided to go on benefit? For people to just off declare that people don't get a job because they are lazy is very offending and stems from ignorance (I hope rather than the alternatives).

          Also, if you think the jobs that are taken by people working illegally in this country are available to people who are legitimately able to work then you are once again misled.

          I'm going to get voted down here by every daily mail reader here

          1. Figgus

            Jobs went 'round

            "There are not enough to go round. Simple, anyone who really thinks that the majority of the unemployed are layabouts who have no idea of what society is like beyond their blinkered and closed social outlook. Look at any area that has had some major industry closures, entire towns are been devastated by the impact. My area has seen unemployment got from around 5% to about 11% since this crisis started, you seriously suggesting an extra 5-6% of people just decided to go on benefit? For people to just off declare that people don't get a job because they are lazy is very offending and stems from ignorance (I hope rather than the alternatives)."

            Seems there were lots of jobs to go 'round before there were more taxes to fund the welfare programs to cover the people without jobs, thus obliterating more jobs, thus needing more taxes, thus more jobs gone, repeat ad nauseum.

            Same thing is happening in the states, the people with money who make the jobs are having it confiscated to pay for a welfare state, and thus the jobs aren't being created... so we need more welfare money, which kills off more jobs, etc...

            It's a stupid vicious cycle powered by the greed of weffies and the purchase of elections by one of our political parties. The only way to effectively break the cycle is to stop doing it.

        6. Giles Jones Gold badge

          Yep

          Exactly. They will resort to crime and get locked up or will have to clean toilets. Maybe then they will realise how privileged they were sitting about watching daytime TV.

      2. Danny 5
        WTF?

        unbelievable

        in a few minutes no less then 4 thumbs down? you people are delusional!

        I mean, come on people, are you really so arrogant as to say that you wouldn't be a part of the looters if the circumstances are right? you are lying to yourself.

        at least i have the objectivity to admit that i could be one of them.

        I'm not religious, but i feel a need to quote the bible "he who is without sin, cast the first stone"

        you people should be ashamed of yourself.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: unbelievable

          @Danny 5

          It's not objectivity, you idiot. Your only saving grace is that you're aware you have no respect for other people's property. This is cancelled out by the cowardice that you'll only nick stuff if think you can get away with it.

          I don't doubt that you would join the masses of morons but please don't judge us by your (lack of) standards.

        2. Titus Technophobe
          Thumb Down

          NO.

          You can accuse me of being arrogant. But given the circumstances of the last couple of nights I would never take part in the looting.

          1. Danny 5
            Facepalm

            blind

            so you're saying all the nazis where scum in WWII?

            that's just one of many examples of mass hysteria. Are there scumbags in with the looters? of course! are they all scum? i hardly think so. is it possible that i could've been one of them? under the right circumstances, yes. Could you be one of them? indeed you could be, but you fail to see.

            i don't judge you, i urge you to judge yourself, many studies have shown that even the most docile, friendly people can turn into torturing monsters given the right circumstances. given this fact, it should be simple deduction that if a person with pacifistic nature could turn into a monster, so could most people. most people including you, me and 99% of people replying here. to deny that is to deny your own human nature and that's sad.

            1. Titus Technophobe
              Thumb Down

              @Danny 5 NO.

              The circumstances of the Nazis in WWII are different. Given that I had been born German, gone thru' the Wiemar republic etc. who knows. Just as other commentators have compared this to the Arab Spring these aren't comparable circumstances.

              These looters took an event (the shooting of and armed drug dealer) then used it as an excuse for creating mayhem and theft.

              1. Danny 5
                Devil

                sigh

                i suppose i should be happy about the response i'm getting, as i do love a good discussion, but i personally feel the replies are rather embarrassing. I never said both situations are the same, i merely pointed out an example of mass hysteria, many other explanations could've been made.

                it's appalling to see how little people are willing to reflect on the current situation, i always thought left wing and right wing where quite evenly spread on el reg, but i guess this is a right wing party afterall.

                so go ahead, call me an idiot and deny all i say, dismiss the factual information i post as bollocks.

                I'm proud of having the empathy to understand what goes on in other people's minds and i'm proud of my objectivity, it enables me to view myself in a way most people would rather not and i'm a better person for it. I know it's unsettling to think that you could be such a monster, but it's the truth.

                1. Liam Johnson
                  Meh

                  @Danny 5

                  Your arguments all fall flat when you consider the people living in the same streets as the rioters who somehow managed to resist peer pressure and NOT go out and rob a TV.

                  They are the same sort of people who can down vote your comments without somehow being delusional.

                  1. Titus Technophobe
                    Thumb Down

                    @Danny 5

                    I am really struggling to understand your point? What have your comments really proved, other than your inability to use paragraphs, punctuation and capitals?

                2. Scorchio!!
                  FAIL

                  Re: sigh

                  "so go ahead, call me an idiot and deny all i say, dismiss the factual information i post as bollocks."

                  But, little furry creature, it is bollocks, and considerably embarrassing bollocks too; you made a category error in comparing the recent looting to the desperation of German people paying off reparations from WWI, where inflation was so fast and so bad that a wheelbarrow of Marks would pay for a loaf in the morning, yet be insufficient in the afternoon. A situation where, having started and lost a war with no observable signs of conflict (occupying powers) opportunist grubby creatures like Schickelgrüber were able to hijack a nation claiming they'd been stabbed in the back, even though they did not have a majority in their equivalent of parliament, Schickelgrüber browbeat Hindenberg into giving him power, in the same way that he browbeat Chamberlain into giving away Czechoslovakia; whilst we have been giving for the past decade or so this is not the same post war apocalyptic scenario of a country in shreds; it is our lack of standards which give people the feeling of entitlement to do that which they now do, especially when their role models in parliament do so with expenses, while telling them that immigrants who send their benefits home are 'heroes'. This is made all the more worse by the fact that they do not fear punishment and thus with impunity seek easy rewards (not barrowloads of Marks to buy bread), because the system that teaches them that offences are followed by punishment now does not demonstrate what was once a self evident truth.

                  You may not understand this, but I am referring to the subtleties of the Dopaminergic reward-punishment and thus learning substratum of the brain in young, maturing individuals who, being able as children to hold parents, teachers and other authority figures to ransom, assault them and demand 'respeck', feel able to do what the fuck they want.

                  It is rather sickening to see apologists like you showing faux empathy for what is, without the slightest of doubts, crime, much of it violent and terrifying to the victims, including the man who this morning died. That you then attribute a desire for justice and regulation, the imposition of law, to 'right wing' people is both tragicomic and insightless; what you have done is to occupy the terrain that all sloppy thinkers do when you have been defeated in an argument.

                  Go and watch the original Mad Max. There is enough parody there on political correctness and survival to show you what you look like.

                  Empathy has no place in the administration of justice, except perhaps where sentencing takes place. Even then a crime is a crime; the offender offends willingly, the offender has the choice whether to or not to offend. Offenders who make the wrong decision must receive a message about this, or they will become recidivists, meaning they will learn that they can get away with their crimes and reoffend.

                  As to your claim that you have posted facts, I see none. I do, however, see a lot of willing individuals correcting you on your inadequate recall of history. Did you ever go to school and learn about Germany between the wars? I think not, or you would not have committed the howlers and category errata that you have.

                  Right wing my arse. 'Please sir, the nathy right wingers want the looters to be punished, that's wrong'. Spare me from sloppy thinkers please. They are the reason why we have come to this very pass.

              2. CD001

                Tough on crime...

                Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime... (from the previous bunch of incompetents)

                Which by my calculations means we should have gallows up in the city centre filled with rioters/looters (criminals) and politicians, bankers and the odd copper - for their part in creating the criminals.

                The politicians made it too easy for the feckless to drop sprogs, claim income support and sponge - we now have a generation where, in some families, nobody has ever worked. Dropping sprogs and "going on the benefit" IS the way of life. We have kids who feel that they're entitled to a living, handed to them by the government.

                The bankers for fecking up the economy - high unemployment always leads to crime.

                The odd copper for vastly overstepping the margins - from harassment by (repeated) stop and search through to abusing section 43 of the anti-terror act and shooting people who look a bit swarthy (from Brazilian plumbers onwards).

                This gives us pretty much the same backdrop to what caused it all to kick of in Brixton in '81 and '85... those who cannot learn from history and all that...

            2. Paul was already taken
              Facepalm

              Danny 5 Wtf

              As far as I can see, the circumstances were right and I managed not to pick up a new pair of trainers/TV. I managed not to destroy my area or wreck a business. I even managed not to beat up a Police officer.

              Just what circumstances are you making up to justify your assertion looting in Britain is acceptable? and are these circumstances in any way applicable to what happened this week or are you restricting yourself to the script of 28 Days Later.

            3. Juillen 1

              @Danny 5

              The documented circumstances of behavioural change are significant and bounded; premeditated choice also enters the equation to find yourself in a situation where it could happen.

              For rioting and looting: If the country were to grind to a halt, and we were all starving to death (literally), the I strongly suspect that I may be part of a mob in the end (after all, civilization is just a few days full feed from anarchy).

              However, with no good reason to riot, and choosing to take luxuries (even kids from the riots have been saying "We're just doing it to prove to the rich and the police that we can"), theyr'e showing they're nothing less than oportunistic scum. There were no great modifiers and circumstance to this; it was premeditated choice.

            4. mark 63 Silver badge
              Alert

              re scum

              but Danny,

              Those scum are living comfortable lives on the dole at the taxpayers expense. There is no need for any of this , they are not protesting anything ie living conditions or some other noble cause.

              Its just robeery with the added bonus of millions of pounds worth of collateral damage. Therefore I condier them ALL scum.

              Having said that there are certain circumstances I would be with them - mainly if it was THE END OF THE WORLD , (due it metior strike od oil run out ) .that propertys then up for grabs

              But siociety would have to be on its way out permanently

              As it is , like I said , these are just scumbag theives and vandals.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                "the circumstances were right and I managed not to pick up a new pair of trainers/TV"

                Yes but you're not an ill-educated 14 year old boy living on a run down council estate full of other ill-educated children with single teenage mothers. If you were, you probably would be looting.

                The looters are certainly not blameless, but to say that their cirmumstances play no part whatsoevwer in their behaviour is monumental bullshit. Of course they are the product of their terrible upbringing. Unless you want to tell me that looting is in their DNA, in which case I would love to hear your solution.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Mushroom

                "Those scum are living comfortable lives on the dole"

                What's the alternative? Are you seriously suggesting that you WANT them to live UNcomfortable lives on the dole? Why? To enact some petty ego trip, so that you can feel big and powerful compared to them? That's so sad.

                I want all people to live comfortable lives, whether they have any money or not. Whether they're in prison or not. Why the hell not? It's a lofty goal but at least it's a goal damnit. What are your goals? How many people have to suffer before you will finally feel happy about yourself and your community?

                Will you be happy when 1000 people are living uncomfrotable lives?

                Will you be happy when 10,000 people are living uncomfrotable lives?

                What's the number damnit.

                1. KrisMac
                  Stop

                  The problem with your utopia is that...

                  ... there just IS NOT enough wealth in the world to go round....

                  If you take the estimated amount of currency in the U.S., Asia and Europe, and then round it up to the nearest hundred billion (to account for the fact that a lot of nations don't actually know how much money is in their country), and then turn it all into U.S. dollars, you'll come up with $34,370,000,000,000 dollars. That's $34 trillion. And if you divide that by the number of people on the planet, which is over 6.6 billion, you get $5,203.60. That means there there's only five thousand dollars available for every man, woman and child on the planet!

                  How comfortable to you believe YOU would be living on a little over $5,000.00 per annum?

                  Given that most people access their share of the $34 trillion out there via some form of credit, (VISA anyone?), the accumulated interest on the debt comsumes upwards of 20% of their annual 5 grand.. So the world's wealth is quietly dissappearing down a rabbit hole.

                  The only saving grace to that is the productivity of a very small percentage of the planets surface which continues to generate wealth in the form of minerals and food. Should the supply of new wealth ever begin to drop off, (Peak Oil comes to mind), we are all going to be in pretty bad shape.

                  The only way EVERYONE can have comfortable lives if is there are fewer of us. So, until people stop having more babies, the concept of EVERYONE living comfortable lives will remain a sad self-delusion that is only affordable to those who ALREADY HAVE comfortable lives.

            5. Jonathon Green
              Big Brother

              Title? We don' need no steenkin' title...

              Danny 5:

              "that's just one of many examples of mass hysteria. Are there scumbags in with the looters? of course! are they all scum? i hardly think so. is it possible that i could've been one of them? under the right circumstances, yes. Could you be one of them? indeed you could be, but you fail to see."

              I refer the dissenters to:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

              All of which suggest that ordinary, decent, honest types (like, say, the average El Reg Commentard) are capable of doing the most astonishing things when placed in the appropriate environment. Given that the Stanford prison and Third Wave experiments were able to produce the results they did in under a week and that Milgram had people quite happily administering apparently fatal electric shocks within about 20 minutes it is left as an excercise for the student to work out what spending a few years in (let alone growing up in) one of our nastier inner city environments might be able to achieve...

              1. Danny 5
                Angel

                finally

                someone to back me up! thanks for that.

                it's not even that i'm giving the looters a free pass, they should be charged for those crimes, even if they did it under the guise of mass hysteria. i was merely pointing out that there's a lot of yous and mes in between the thugs. That doesn't mean only the real thugs should be punished, they ALL should be punished, i'm just trying to put some things into perspective.

                Having said they should be punished, punishment should be effective and fit the crime, taking their benefits will only make things worse. let them keep their benefits, but cut them to pay for the damages sounds like a much better punishment to me.

                and in regards to another comment stating you wouldn't loot a plasma tv, would you still not do that if you where standing in front of a broken window, see people running out with tv's by the dozen, no cop for miles around?

                i think i wouldn't, but i'm not 100% sure, i don't know how i would act in that situation, because i've never been in that situation.

                1. Andyman
                  Alert

                  Danny 5 - Would you?

                  So basically you are saying that if in a situation where you have the choice to commit a crime with the knowledge you would not face consequences, you are unsure of what you would do.

                  That sounds like the theme behind The Invisible Man, the idea that if you we not have to face the consequences our moral compass will degrade and we will become monsters. An interesting theory to discuss.

                  Do I believe it? No. Here at my desk at work there are many things I could steal, of high value, and be quite sure I could get away with it.

                  Ignoring looting in the 'end of the world' scenario I think your argument shows a very real moral weakness, rather than objectiveness.

                  I would also recommend to your employers that you be trusted with nothing more than a pencil.

                  1. Danny 5
                    Happy

                    close, but no

                    what i meant to say was that if i where dirt poor, had a bleak outlook on life and had no job, THEN i don't know if i'd still be such an upstanding member of society, there's a good chance i'd steal one of those plasmas too. I like to tell myself i'm a decent human being too, that i would never resort to these crimes under any circumstance, but i'd be deluding myself, i just don't know. I have a great job, a nice warm place for myself and many friends, my outlook on life is great, i have too much to lose. How i would act if i had nothing to lose? i cannot be 100% sure and nor can you.

                  2. fajensen Silver badge
                    Mushroom

                    I know what I would do!

                    """"

                    if in a situation where you have the choice to commit a crime with the knowledge you would not face consequences, you are unsure of what you would do.

                    """"

                    If I could get away with crashing the economy while making out like a bandit all the way; Hell YES I would. Fucking A.

                    If I would get paid millions in bonus for running a business into a hole in the ground - SURE - it beats working, you know, and I would also buy some derivatives on the outcome via my numbered account in Brussels for added incentive.

                    If someone gave me the root password and the location of the datacenters used by the IRS ... well ... I guess we all deserve a break.

                    Would I nick a telly, nah. Not worth it. But if I could retire forever on the proceeds from my dastardly deeds AND be safe from retribution? Yeah, why not?

                    We serfs must learn from our superiors example, after all they are better people than us!

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  You don't have to do what an experiment says could happen

                  My parents told me not to steal, and I think this is correct. I believe you should earn money and buy what you need and want. I acknowledge the power of peer pressure and social pressure, but unlike the experiments in US, in real life when not playing along with an experiment, you have the option to not bow to social pressures and stick to your ethical beliefs and abide by the law.

                3. heyrick Silver badge

                  @ Danny 5

                  Broken window, looters, no cops around, would I be tempted?

                  Strangely enough, no. I see value in things that friends give me, and I see value in things that I save up to buy. I'm not so keen on my job, but when the latest "ooooh shiny" arrives, it reminds me why I go to work in the first place.

                  Perhaps I have a better set of morals than you that I can answer no with certainty. But, then, I don't see myself being in such a situation as to have that as my options. As far as I'm concerned, the best place to be when the looters and thugs arrive is... somewhere else.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Facepalm

                    @heyrick

                    Another one completely missing the point.

                    The point isn't whether you'd be tempted right now. The point is whether you'd be tempted if you'd been brought up in the same sort of environment some of these people have.

                    And yeah I know, you would never be in that kind of environment for long anyway. Because, no matter how bad the environment you were brought up in might have been, your morals and hard work would see you through it to a nice happy successful career.

                    1. heyrick Silver badge

                      @ AC 2011/08/11 22:07

                      Missing the point? I could have sworn the first post I replied to was suggesting that in a similar situation, a fair number of us commentards would get involved in the hysteria and join in (try the movie links quoted), while the second asks if we saw looters walking out with goodies and no police in sight, would we be tempted to join in?

                      You're right that the real question should involve the situation of upbringing, though this was chosen to be overlooked as Danny 5 was asking us, here... There's no scientific basis for what I'm about to say, which is that I do not believe that your average scum looter would be reading Reg, never mind commenting. Actually, given some of the "interviews" on TV, I wonder if they'd even understand much of it.

                      I wouldn't describe my situation as "a successful happy career". How I would describe it is "adequate". Don't pretend to know me, you don't.

                      The point that you appear to have missed is, quite simply, how much looting was looting for the sake of looting. Little of the stuff nicked is necessary in life. Mobiles, widescreen tellies, designer clothes, maybe nice to have as convenience or status items, but not essential. Or are you actually suggesting that being brought up in a hopeless situation makes this sort of behaviour acceptable?

                4. Mike123456
                  FAIL

                  Title? Really?

                  Quote Danny5

                  "and in regards to another comment stating you wouldn't loot a plasma tv, would you still not do that if you where standing in front of a broken window, see people running out with tv's by the dozen, no cop for miles around?"

                  No, No I would not.

                  because I have a core belief in upholding social standards, and because IT"S AGAINST THE LAW.

                  You, sir are a part of the problem if you would steal just because those around you are.

                  Look! There's a load of lemmings, lets' leap off a cliff.

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