Keynes would disagree....
Unfortunately hacking the website of the crony enrichment propeller does not make sound money make.
Too late for that.
Infamous hacktivist collective Anonymous has served notice that it intends to attack the websites of the Federal Reserve. The campaign – likely to take the form of denial of service attacks and possibly sit-ins – is in protest at the Federal Reserve's role in the global financial crisis, misuse of US taxpayer funds and …
Unfortunately hacking the website of the crony enrichment propeller does not make sound money make.
Too late for that.
It's about time the field of IT got a bit more media coverage. We are raising a society that thinks the pinnacle of recognition is to be a popstar or a footballer. Perhaps if there were more stories about people doing things with computers in the mainstream press, people will think: "there are better ways to achieve respect and to contribute than shagging a celebrity. I could get involved in the ongoing battle between government and activists!"
Beer for the cyberwarriors who fight for something other the right to be on X-Factor. ;)
careful what you wish for.
"Evil satanist and computer worshiper h4rm0ny was today caught having sex with computers. His neighbours say he is the quiet type. 'He kept himself to himself', said Joe Twitch'n'Look, h4rm0ny's next door neighbour. The crime of 'private use of a computational machine to facilitate data processing' is punishable by up to 6 consecutive hangings. President and Saviour Gordon Brown, back from his stay in the cryogenics lab, recently announced tough new laws to punish computer users. In a press release he said 'h4rm0ny is genetically sick, that is why he is stealing tax money from children'. And now here's Kate with the weather..."
..the majority of those involved in Anonymous would jack it all in tomorrow for the chance of shagging a celebrity. Or shagging anyone at all for that matter.
They'd better stay with simple things - freedom of information, personal rights etc.
The moment they try to meddle with something they have absolutely no idea of, it will backfire big time...
Because the bankers and regulators (who claim to know how it works) did such a good job, didn't they? And how many execs faced censure for their ineptitude? None. Not a one saw their assets seized or faced any form of punishment for their negligence.
At best they just held out their hands, got a fat payment and slid off into post with a different bank/government.
Yet the public, those who earn less in a year than the self-serving bastards make in a day, had their assets reached into and seized. Will the public see any gain from this? Probably not. There'll be some deal so that the banks do not have to "suffer" any more.
The rich robbing the poor to pay...the rich!
Enough to make you puke.
"Yet the public, those who earn less in a year than the self-serving bastards make in a day, had their assets reached into and seized."
After borrowing more than they could ever repay...
Sure, encouraged by the vote-whoring governments and banks eager to please those same governments, but nevertheless - someone had to sign on the dotted line in the mortgage contract.
Now, you want to ask those governments (or those who were in government then and now are in self-righteous opposition) to help you sort it out? How, one should ask? They've already spent your money for 40 years ahead, where will they get more?
They did do an astonishing job and they achieved many of their goals.
You're making the understandable mistake of thinking their interests coincide with yours/ours.
Goldman Sachs, Citibank, etc being prime examples.
Another example (more of a pattern actually).. US 'business' invests heavily in poorer country (Taiwan, Korea, etc, etc). Country's economy goes titsup. IMF steps in and gives country money. Money given pays the businesses (USA) debts. Country collapses. USA gets richer by effectively loan-sharking a poorer country. Which is now utterly in hock the The West.
What if the bankers assured them they'd be able to afford it if they stuck to the financial package their experts put together for them? Are the hapless loan takers 100% at fault if they have been conned into entering a loan arrangement they couldn't have taken out under older, stringent loan rules?
You know, loan rules bankers lobbied (paid) to have relaxed.
I'd say the blame was 25% hapless loan taker (who should have better money sense) and 75% person in position of authority being underhand (banker) in order to make more money/wage slaves.
Have the bank/business put such promises in writing as part of the agreement, with a nice big default penalty on their side if they turn out to be BS. Most will balk at the idea, as they know full well most of what they are saying is advertising, not fact.
Of course you need a population educated and savy enough to know to do such things, so it is - as you say - back to square one.
...and I think they are. But I cannot support the actions of unelected representatives in this manner. Anonymous speaks for Anonymous, they no mandate and thus no other voice. Their energies would be better put at exposing the corruption in the USA government. And the UK. And the French. And the...
Lord knows, there's some dark places that need to be shown the light,
As if the crap they're spouting isn't bad enough, they wont even put a real voice to it. Got bored and closed the video a third of the way through.
As if the crap you're spouting isn't bad enough, you wont even put a real name to it. Got bored and stopped reading a third of the way through.
will you make it to the end of this post?
make it to the end of what now?
What a fantastic demonstration of economic insight in that video. Combine that with tactics such as 'let's DDoS that website' and you must have an average Anonymous age of what, 14?
Or is that too generous?
"Or is that too generous?"
Not necessarily. Outliers are an interesting story in themselves! There will be both children and pensioners in the mix. What will be of greatest interest is the offending careers and psychometric tests of personality where these twits are concerned. They will tell an important story.
Liberals - you are boring as hell. What's with this "Anonymous vows to attack Federal Reserve". What good will that do? None.
The reality is, Liberals, that you're just trouble makers looking for an unpopular target against which to break the law.
You geeks behind your computers won't be able to stand jail. Go back to playing Dungeons and Dragons (or whatever it's called).
McMoo - if you had even a basic education in economics, you would realize the Anonymous's diatribe is EXACTLY what the right-wing Tea Party has been saying for two years or more.
Liberals, starting with noted NYC columnist, Nobel-prize winner, and Princeton University professor Dr. Paul Krugman generally agree with what the Fed has done as being necessary, and if anything not inflationary enough to spur the economy.
But just keep spewing your 180-degree incorrect diatribe, trying to tar anyone bad with that "Liberal" brush...next you'll say Hitler was a liberal too...
"liberals"? You treat Anonymous like they're some kind of political party, or that only liberals DDoS sites.
(Also it's a bit derpy to log onto your account on an IT news site and call OTHER people geeks)
@McMoo... Nice troll... you are not a conservative; quit trying to pretend you know how we think.
@Mr. Hill.... If Dr. Krugman had ever been right, this recession would have ended years ago (or actually not happened at all) and the Chinese would not be dumping treasury bonds. It's time to consign Keynesian economics to the "failed experiments" bin. Nobel prizes aren't all they're cracked up to be.... You also might want to actually talk to some Tea Party folks before believing CNN/MSNBC/HuffPo
Anonymous is a real problem... and one that will be very difficult to deal with effectively without jeopardizing essential liberties. The only good thing I can see about all this is that maybe there will be more emphasis on security.....
And OBTW, remember "Nazi" was a nickname, the real name was NSDAP: National SOCIALIST German WORKERS' Party (for government school graduates--the letters don't match because they represent words in German, which is this funny language they speak over there). The National Revolutionary movement (Fascists, National Socialists, National Syndicalists, etc etc) was indeed founded by socialists after WWI because the popular reaction to the declaration of war made them decide that internationalism and class war did not work--but they did not wake up enough to realize that social revolution was and is a dead end street that leads to tyranny. Once you had the unstable three way conflict between socialists, national revolutionaries, and capitalists, alliances of convenience did indeed spring up, but that should not be confused with ideological compatibility.
Liberals, commie bastards, hippies, homosexuals, etc., etc.
How would you know if Krugman is right or wrong? He has said from Day 1 of the recession that a truly massive stimulus would be needed, and the one proposed was nowhere near large enough according to him. Krugman also took extensive issue to the way the stimulus was done mechanically, relying too heavily on stimulating producers (through reduced capital costs), and not nearly enough on stimulating demand (via jobs programs, etc.). I am not here to say if that is right or wrong, but certainly you can't claim Keyesian economics are dead when they were never really applied to solve this recession.
However, we can see the opposite in Greece - a situation where all the conservative, fiscally tough medicine has done nothing but kill the patient.
"However, we can see the opposite in Greece - a situation where all the conservative, fiscally tough medicine has done nothing but kill the patient."
No way. What caused their problems was a perceived reluctance to fully engage with the problem. They like the Irish and Portuguese were warned in advance, failed to act and accept an early bail out in exchange for tight fiscal measures, found themselves in crises of their own making, and then had to accept a more constricting version of what was previously offered. The Ed Balls version of events is that the bail outs and cuts caused the problems, but there again this is the man who supported the chancellor who sold 60% of treasury reserve gold at a low point in the market, announcing it in advance and thereby depressing the price even more, supporting Brown with gobbledy gook or, as Heseltine put it, "Balls". Please put away the revisionism, it's egregious.
As a keen student of the financial crisis, I have to ask why the Fed is even a worthwhile target. The Fed did not create the banking laws that allowed hedge funds to be under-regulated (Congress did). The Fed did not create the mortgage rules for capital and risk management, Congress did, with help from Freddie Mac/Sallie Mae in implementation practicalities. The Fed does not affect the near-criminal operations of Moody's and Standard and Poor's, who continued to write AAA+ credit rating on what was essentially junk repackaged mortgages for 12 years. The Fed was not responsible for punishing those that take advantage illegally of the financial system - the SEC is supposed to do that (and hasn't lifted a finger).
I will not advise on the wiseness of taking such actions as DDoS attacks on anyone, but I will say that should you wish to punish the evil-doers of the financial crisis, the Fed is well back in the line for responsibility. And frankly, punishing the Fed is really punishing American tax payers, because THEY will have to pay to clean up the mess you make, not the people that actually caused or profited from the crisis. Better targets abound, IMHO...
I don't think this mess will "clean up".. Congress must go too.
Don't forget, though, the 600 billion in new money the fed created out of nowhere. If you think that didn't devalue the savings of the little guy, you are mistaken.
It was basically 600 billion dollars in counterfeit bills getting dumped into the economy.
Lots of thought has gone into this idea. Wonders were they plan on hiding . Sees helicopter with men dropping from it .
waste of time that... it's already long since emptied
"the entertainment industry (and in particular Sony"
Is this referring to the recent attack that blocked out PSN?I didn't think that anon had ever claimed that attack. Are there other attacks against Sony which this is referring to, if there are then it might be clearer if they were referenced directly than letting readers speculate and assume the wrong attack.
I am not defending anons actions, sometimes I can see their protests as legitimate but it is a bit of a mixed bag it would seem.
I don't believe its the best way to be heard. The message gets lost when the activity is criminal.
Am I being naive, or is the actual process less 'we can strike anyone, anytime' and more likely to be
1. Poke around various places to find (often secondary to actual operations) sites that can be pwned.
2. Let others know about it, then decide which one to pwn next.
3. Come up with a suitably pompous (and/or lulzworthy) reason.
Actually following up on a threat againt the Spanish police was impressive, as far as it went, I suppose, but even then I bet they looked first, then threatened.
Isn't that the point.
If you were going to threaten to lock someone out of a room, you would probably check that you have the keys first. You'd look pretty dumb if you made the threat and they had the keys.
Don't go to war, and then seek to beat your enemy. First beat your enemy, and then seek to go to war.
Of course they'll figure out that they can carry through a threat before making it. They'd look a bit silly otherwise.
I hope none of them had a sub-prime mortgage, inappropriate credit card or loan otherwise they would be massive hipocrites. Most people are to blame in some way for the financial crisis, they just prefer to blame everyone else for their desire for easy credit and cheap loans.
Utter bollocks. I don't have a mortgage, loan or even bank account. And yet I'm suffering because nobody has any money and work is much more difficult to find. Let alone extra taxes and police drives to raise revenue. I've just given up driving for the meantime...you can't leave the house without being ticketed for something hereabouts. Any chance I had of scoring a state pension has probably been wiped out too.
A few greedy fucks have made the lives of pretty well everyone on the planet more miserable so they could trouser a few quid. The sub-prime mortgagees may or may not have gone into things knowing what will happen. I suspect that many just wanted -like everybody else- to improve their lives and thought that they could maybe pull it off. And some, of course, would have been too stupid to realise the implications and just did what the bloke in a suit told them to.
There is varying responsibity that can be consigned to various players: governments, banks, people who accepted the dodgy loans etc etc.
Goldman Sachs et.al. who knowingly pressured the senate into creating the conditions whereby it was possible are the real villains of the piece IMO; as was the senate itself for being so fucking gullible/easy to bribe. LulzSec and Anonymous can go to town on those scumpouches and I will applaud.
There it is, that magical term, "sub prime"; we also forget that the last Labour government had a similar thing going with its PPFI, the ball and chain economics currently around our neck and threatening the NHS, the dentistry part of which Labour destroyed. Along with their many other silly, potted economics. Keynes did say save when the going is good, and spend in the bad times. Labour spent money in times good and bad. D'oh.
"Utter bollocks. I don't have a mortgage, loan or even bank account. And yet I'm suffering because nobody has any money and work is much more difficult to find."
A fine piece of non sequitur reasoning, topped with with a goodly dab of generalising from the particular.
In the first place your experiences do not necessarily describe the average economic experience of the nation which, believe it or not, is not the same as your description.
The subsequent inferences that you make are the non sequitur bit; that means, in case you didn't know, it does not follow from.
YMLT talk about Golden Brown and light touch regulation, Peter Mandelson being relaxed about people being filthy rich (as long as they pay their taxes), and a variety of Labour scams. BTW, did you know that ToniBler's last expenses claim was accidentally shredded? All that we can say is that he paid to have his house re-roofed out of our pockets.
"Anonymous began life in the anarchic message boards of 4chan as a protest against the Church of Scientology back in 2008"
Woah son, Anon is a bit older than that, and Scientology were not their first target. Maybe their first NOTABLE target, or their first target chosen for political reasons.
Although their wikipedia entry doesn't mention it, I always seem to vaguely think that Anonymous began on the Something Awful forums...with pranks like the fake MacBook reverse-scam...
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/ - still one of my favourite things ever.
I'm not going to justify what Anon et all are up to but stop a second from bashing them and realise a few things....
What we grew up with, the world we grew up in (most of the posters on here are my age or older I suspect) has gone, forever. In the place of it is this huge uncorordinated, red tape heavy corrupt morass the is undeniably starting to do more harm than good. Everything we do is recorded regulated and mandated. God forbid you are seen to 'suceeed' those above push down harder to keep you down there. This is not make beleive or fantasy, this is fact, go digging and you'll find proof of all of the above.
The Governments and corporations rely on the fact that through apathy and a perceived lack of power though we might not like whats going on, there is nothing we can do about it in our eyes or the eyes of Joe Public. To quote a well known film.. 'truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror' (Yes I know I cut it short)
We've been told the Terrorists are comming to get us (BTW how many times did the IRA ACTUALLY blow us up)
We've been told boogy men lurk round every corner
We've been told to shut up and let the big boys play, you know nothing of banking so dont worry yourself, its all under control...
We;ve been told not to worry about Government, they are all good and they know their jobs.
Dont break the law, but if you gross over XXX we might ignore the fact you do
All along countered with OMG xxx has slept with XXX
Trajedy XXX is back on drugs...
Our Generation has sat back and let this mess happen.
Annoymous, Lolzsec and the rest may well be teen hacktivists, although I suspect the real brains arent. But think of what the hell they have to look forward to going on the course we are heading down now. We've got it bad now, they will have it worse. At least these guys have the balls to stand up and try and actually do something about this mess. Ok they are probobly doing it wrong but they are trying while the rest of us will go back home, flick on the tv and bitch to our SO about how shit the world is. So unless you have a better idea or you can put some effort into making your voice heard maybe lay off of them. Yes I realise its a crying shame you cant get on PSN/ACS Laws site or anything else that is a minor inconvienience to you but tbh, its probobly too late for you anyway. These guys and the legitimate people fighting the system are trying to fix their future, not the one you allowed to be built for you.
Yes I'm hacked of and disillusioned because I'm old/young enough to have seen the transistion to this state.
I prefer to try & discern The Rules of The Game and use The Rules to improve the lot of myself and nearest/dearest. It's kinda like a Getting Ahead Challenge thing.
But you're not wrong.
"Our Generation has sat back and let this mess happen."
Please, don't speak on my behalf. Some people did. Some people went and took on mortgages that they could not pay off. Some people sat and watched 'reality tee vee' (aka bread and circuses) courtesy of the inflated and over financed Bee Bee Cee. Some people drank themselves into liver damage. Some people took a goodly amount of illicit narcotics [...]. Not me. During all of this I worked hard at a number of projects. I think that I'm fairly safe from the vicissitudes of the market, unless something stupendously bad and silly happens. In which case the country goes down the tubes. I didn't borrow. I didn't spend my money on senseless things. I don't waste food and never have. I am still careful.
As to the Anon/lulz crowd, how effing silly. Their nadgers will be put in a vice. It will cost the state (whichever one/s) a lot of money to prosecute. They will be despised by the general public of various countries whose precious money will be poured into needless investigations.
Crapping in the soup bowl because you don't like the restaurant is worse than bloody silly, worse than childish.
Blaming others for the mess is, as you point out, silly. A lot of people are responsible. A lot of people believed the adverts ('live the dream!' 'feel the thrill!' and other such vacuous clichés). Now everyone's got the hump and are going on strike. Why? Presumably they are not satisfied with the mess, and would like to lower us further down toward the toilet bowl. As for the anon et al. offenders, justifying the damage they do; they are no different than any other offender, offering excuses and 'reasons' for doing what they do to their victims. Sheesh. Just wait; when they are sentenced their relatives will come out and make speeches about the blow to freedom, showing absolutely no goddamn insight whatever. It will make no difference except possibly to stiffen legal resolve.
That was a long post, Scorchio, which told us nothing new and constructive but everything about just how you are just a brainwashed part of the system and thought not to act to change it for the better, or do you/have you shared ideas and thoughts which can change failed and inequitable power levers .... Established Primitive Practices which have been Inherited from an Older Slower Time when Intelligence was in Short Supply and a Premium Asset for Profiting from its Stealthy Abuse and Global Market Misuse.
Today is IT Creating Brave New Worlds, for we live with and make deals in many of them, which are being completely reformed and constantly challenged to Improve beyond Perfection the Reneging Renegade Hoards which would be Legion and Anonymous too.
What are you other than a pathetic little robot doing as one is programmed to perform according to the thoughts and instructions of others who may be Grand Master Fool Tools.
As a fact of life... winners win... losers lose... its easier for a winner to win because they are further up the board... losers have a much more difficult time winning because they have further to go. The rich get richer because by being rich they have more means to make more money. We want a utopia where everyone is equal, everyone has the same opportunities to live fulfilled and free, but nowhere in history or the natural world is there this kind of equilibrium, we just aren't there yet...
Attacking the federal reserve is simply a misplaced gesture of frustration a much better way to get to where we want to be is to levy tax on people who have excess and funnel that to the poorest, which is most developed countries have higher tax rates for the richer and support structures for the poorer, the problem is the a lot of the rich run off to tax havens, until the rich have nowhere to hide their assets and evade taxes we will have this problem.
Yes it can seem a bit of an insult that the tax payer has to dig the banking system out of the hole only later to find that the banks still pay out their big bonuses to bankers. Presumably we didn't just give the banks money, I imagine it was loaned to the bank for them to pay it back and it was loaned to them to prevent millions of people who rely on the banks to safeguard their money from having their savings sucked into a liquidation hole. The bankers salaries and bonuses are based upon the employment market rate. If one bank decides not to pay out the bonuses the bankers may just go to another bank, much like you want to get paid the correct rate for your job role and will go elsewhere if there are better rates (not that it is the only motivation for staying or leaving).
All in all its a long process which wont get fixed in a day through "revolution", that if you follow what is happening in politics and economics you'll notice we are tweaking and changing it all the time trying to solve this problem... Its much easier to break stuff though isn't it!
How many times did the IRA blow us up? Ignoring when they just tried to blow up each other in Ulster, the highlights are:
1973-74 - 40 bomb attacks in London
1982 - 2 bomb attacks in London parks
1983 - Harrods bombing
1984 - Brighton hotel bombing
1989 - Deal Barracks bombing
1990 - Leicester Army recruitment bombing
1990 - Eltham bombing
1990 - Wembley car bombing
1990 - Lichfield station shooting
1991 - Mortar attack on Downing St
1992 - Baltic Exchange bombing
1993 - Warrington litter bin bombing
1993 - Bishopsgate bombing
1996 - Docklands bombing
2001 - BBC centre bombing
Yeah, you're right, it's all bullshit the politicians and media dream up to keep us in our place.
In addition to the data you cite thousands of people died in Ulster. I think that your interlocutor is too young to remember these things. Surely that is true, isn't it? People don't go around making up facts do they?
AC: 12:23 GMT
They and the media don't give the impression that's how it's done. They make it seem as if Anonymous already has all the keys and that it's just a matter of time until everyone is hacked. Meanwhile I don't know if this is Bruce Lee saying he can defeat any man and proving it, or Vruce Lee saying he can defeat any man and proving it by only beating up cripples. How can I know how scared to be?
Doesn't sound very anonymous.
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