back to article Labour minister says 14 year olds should get ID cards

A government minister has spoken glowingly of the prospect of kids as young as six handing over their biometrics as she boasted that the Tories and LibDems would find it impossible to unpick the government’s ID card scheme. Meg Hillier, an under secretary at the Home Office, told a fringe meeting of tobacconists and …

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Unhappy

Chipped at birth!..

You can just see it coming now, can't you.

<Official NuLanouria Child Delivery Check-list;

Clamp Umbilical Cord:

Cut Umbilical Cord:

Insert Identichip (TM) into infant's neck.>

Time for this rabble of control freaks to be removed from power. the sooner the better. At least the US will get the chance this year. Let's just hope they take it.

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Paris Hilton

Godwin's law in action

"Warming to her theme and no doubt ordering another vat of Kool-Aid, Hiller then told the meeting etc" - I couldn't help but read this as "Hitler then told the meeting". The names are similar. Meg Hitler.

A part of me wouldn't mind if kids (and just kids) had to carry around an ID card, on pain on instant arrest, but then again a part of me wouldn't mind if kids had their tongues stapled to their cheeks until the age of twenty-five.

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It's an easy fix, allegedly

It's a good deal easier to implement ID cards than to teach young people about alcohol and tobacco. Provided no one notices the flaws in the argument, if misuse decreases they can take the credit and conclude that similar measures will benefit other areas, while if misuse gets worse they can say how difficult the problem is and how even more draconian measures are needed.

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And lose them

Our particular 14 year old can barely find his socks. What will the average "time to lose" be for an ID card? And what happens when it's lost?

Has anyone in the cabinet actually got kids? Oh yes, Gordon--.

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NB
Coat

oh great

more arse-about-tit dumbfuckery from our ZaNuLabour-PF overlords. Mine's the one with our few remaining civil liberties in the left hand pocket.

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Stop

Invaluable?

By invaluable, she probably mean "for which value can't be established" or in other words: "an endless money pit"....

The idea to forcing the card on teenagers (6 to 14) makes perfect sense. There is a slight chance that they might even see the database up and running before their death (and freely send on CD/USB/Whatever unencrypted media to everybody). Given the public IT project management abilities, something anybody above 21 has clearly no chance of.

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If I wasn't so annoyed I might be coherent...

There is no evidence that the Computerised ID system, as planned by our beloved Government Consultants and Major IT suppliers, can work in anything other than a crippled, ineffective, insecure and monstrously expensive and unsupportable way.

Why do they continue with promotion of this nonsense? Why do they continue to delude themselves and try to delude the general and technically proficient public? Two simple questions and no answers. They are clearly working on the basis that rubbish repeated often enough will eventually be accepted as the accurate truth - well it wont be by this enraged MGP.

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Pirate

I'll volunteer to unpick the scheme.

Just because ministers seem to find it hard to understand doesn't mean it is. The tricky bit is forcing the Home Office to shred and burn all the working papers so they can't simply resurrect the vampire in the next generation.

What ought to be considered while we're doing that should be buldozing Marsham Street and sowing the site with salt.

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Anonymous Coward

a title is required - because we say so

The sooner this evil lot are out of power, the better. And that's even knowing what the alternative is!

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Black Helicopters

ID cards are important

Just take our word for it and don't ask why.

And stop coming up with reasonable objections, our inability to talk about them makes us look bad.

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Paris Hilton

Too difficult to roll back - cods wallop

It is not difficult at all to roll back this monster - just scrap the idea, end of story.

Even if they ever manage to issue all some 70 million cards, they are going to be swamped with lost cards, stolen cards, clones, forgeries, cards chewed up in machines or accidentally de-activated through some means or other. This does not of course include the amount of new cards required every year plus trying to recover cards from the deceased.

At this time when the Countries finances are so damn strapped it is plain foolish to go ahead with this quite stupid expense.

Paris - cos she wouldn't be so foolish to waste money.

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Black Helicopters

I would sooner

move to the USA than have my son's data held by the (un)government.

/choppers 'cos the 10 acre fortress in the nebraska desert is sounding more attractive everyday...

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Stop

Logic problem

[14 year old attempts to buy alcohol]

Licensee: "Here, you look a bit young, let's see your ID card."

Scrappy kid: "Haven't got one, they're not compulsory. I've got this [fake] ID though..."

Stupid kid: "Yes I am, here's my National ID card. Oops."

You have to make ID cards compulsory for the over-18s before they'll stop younger kids pretending to be older, even if they've got a compulsory one (that they haven't lost yet).

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Why?

"Gordon Brown wanted to roll the scheme out “quicker than it was possible.”"

And therefore condemned it to join the list of postponed achievements which currently includes a slimmed-down civil service, electoral reform, a more equal society, internet for everyone, a big conversation, a wired-up NHS, an ethical foreign policy, an elected second chamber, joined-up government, fairer taxation, three sorts of Britishness, proper icons and a stable economy.

I know he wants to get in the history books, but you'd think Terminal 5 and a windfarm would be enough to do the trick.

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re: Keith Oborn

I was just coming here to say the very same thing. My boss has a teenaged son of around that age, and they've given up trusting him with door keys as he was losing them on an almost weekly basis and were getting expensive to replace.

I hate to think how quickly kids would lose their ID cards and how much they'd cost to replace, which would mean that parents would be far from happy to allow their kids to take them out of the house, negating their value as ID fairly quickly

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Flame

Gordon Brown wanted...

>Gordon Brown wanted to roll the scheme out “quicker than it was possible.”

WTF!?! THAT's where Government IT projects go wrong then! They do them “quicker than it was possible.”. It would all be so amusing if it weren't so damn serious!

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Anonymous Coward

Dr. Who : I don't like words like "invaluable"...

...too much like "unsinkable"

Sarah-Jane : "What's wrong with unsinkable ?"

The Doctor : "The Titanic, remember ? Glug, glug, glug"

(paraphrased from 'Dr Who and the Giant Robot')

Where's my coat ?

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Paris Hilton

Rolling it back?

Presumably even if Gordon the Brave gets his way - a roll back would be pretty easy.

Que one new PM throwing his ID card away, and urging the rest of us to do so too. I just hope there's a policeman at hand to slap a no littering fine on him, we know who you are.

I'm the one without ID and you know who I am.

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This post has been deleted by its author

Invaluable

It's strange that whenever I hear (or read) a politician say invaluable, they're talking about something worthless.

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Gav
Boffin

@Keith Oborn

ID Cards will never be "lost". The optional biological unit (i.e. your 14 year old) attached to the card will be what's lost, as it will be they who find themselves with no identity and therefore no rights.

The Card will be just fine, having all the rights and protection of a citizen, and indeed will probably be having a great time lending them to some other optional biological unit.

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Heart

Re: and lose them

Need an ID like when you tag a dog. All our lives would be a lot easier if we were properly tagged and governed. We can all still have our freedoms but the roads could be a lot kinder to nature if a central computer kept track of our movements and organized car sharing etc. All you would have to do is go online and say where you are going and why and the governing body could buddy you up with someone going in the same direction. Advisors could also organise healthy meal options and people who need special diets could be fined if they eat unhealthy food. How many of us are with our ideal partners? The UK could become stronger and healthier if by using the ID chip the relevant authorities could arrange our lives so we bump into and fall in love with our ideal genetic partner.

Oh we are heading into a wonderful brave new world....

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The time has come, the walrus said...

The only reason 6 and 7 year-olds have given up their fingerprints to get passports is so that their parents can get them the hell out of the country before it's too late. Wankers.

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Early roll out

Well, at least the sooner they roll it out, the sooner it can start going pear-shaped. We need some good high profile cock-ups and enough time to fully aportion the blame before the next election comes up.

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Flame

Bunch of smug fucks

==The current government.

Smug, self-important fucks. Who eat the shit that suppliers feed them. And grin hugely.

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b
Flame

ELECTION. NOW.

I really didn't think it was possible to loathe slimy bunch of parasites any more.

I was wrong.

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Unhappy

cancelation fees no doubt

which will mean the government will have to pay the same whether the scheme is implemented or canceled... wonder how many nu-lab ministers can look forward to cushy non-executive directorships when they lose their seats... it's looking like they've sorted out their golden parachutes for when they get kicked out...

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The right way to architect a solution, and the government way...

"she boasted that the Tories and LibDems would find it impossible to unpick the government’s ID card scheme" - so... not sounding like the most elegant piece of solution architecture but an unmanagable, unmaintainable mess that will keep the consultants that built it in jobs for years to come.

"...off license staff needn’t make their own judgements on what an 18 year old might look like?" - Don't you mean "...off license staff need a fingerprint reader and broadband internet connection rather than make their own judgements on what an 18 year old might look like - then sell then the 5l bottle of White Lightening anyway?"

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Anonymous Coward

I beg

I beg to differ, I have a very easy solution to "unpick" the stazzi-esque database it's called a tonne of of high explosives in the building that houses the system.

A second solution is to line all the Labour MPs up against the wall and have the shot as an example to future politicans that they're job is too keep the economy running and that's more or less it.

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Ash
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Well, I won't be having one

My local pub knows i'm over 18, the school I work at accepted my Extended CRB check and allowed me to work with secondary and primary aged children, and the DVLA (as was) saw fit to send me a drivers license with my address printed on it.

I don't need any biometric ID; Everyone who needs to know who I am already knows, and those who don't know don't need to know.

Either way, you can bet i'll be buying large quanties of superglue to put over my fingertips if i'm ever forced into one. On a similar note, it would probably require force, too.

I won't be having a biometric ID card.

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Thanks for proving my point, Lab

You know, I hoped I was just being cynical when I thought that labour ignored its public consulation about nuclear power. Now I know I was bang on the money.

Their *own* ID Card Forum is awash with negativity and hate for the ID cards, from all ages and spectrums. No one wants them. Least of all "the kids". And here they are forcing the issue anyway.

Democracy my arse.

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Anonymous Coward

Huh?

Children should be seen and not heard.

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Yet another Zanu Nulabour twerp

Oh yes;

it will be popular (with the politicians)

It will make life easier (for them to control you)

It will be invaluable (to remove the last of your liberties)

So the question is, will they allow their children to be the first to be fingerprinted - no? Ah well, that's because they are so much more important than the rest of us plebs.

They have totally lost the plot - come the day of the revolution brothers....

The trouble is, when they get kicked out of office, they get a nice fat wedge, various incentives to sit on the boards of NGOs etc and can then get some nonce to write utter drivel about their time in office for even more money.

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Happy

only if

Only if politicians also get their own kids and air a live 24 hour show so we can watch what their kids getup to !

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Those who the Gods would destroy

The total annihilation of the nu labour claque is inevitable - if the Kool Aid doesn't get into the water supply. Their madness at least grows more apparent by the day.

Brown is in his bunker, rehearsing ancient mantras and delusions of the Great Leader he will be - if only he is allowed to be. Darling is consumed with gloom and hopelessness. Smith fiddles with the curtains, and sees paedophiles everywhere. Harman entertains demented thoughts of the nation's men fighting it out at airports to leave the country. Miliband's clowning over Georgia gets him an earful of the F word from Russia's foreign minister, yet he still skips and dances for the media. And here is Hillier fantasizing about Tories and LibDems so emasculated they couldn't dispose the ID card project. (Whether they will or not is another matter).

One has to hope that in the next 18 months none of them grow so mad that they itch to see what the Big Red Button does. Still, the madness looks set to continue.

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Linux

# 2 reason to dismiss labour (after the Iraq war shenanigans)

And so the continued erosion of our freedom rolls on - albeit targeted at the young, accepting and naturally naive. Congratulations to Labour on their continued waste of public money in their never ending pursuit of control freakery, measurement and observation. Time for another vitriolic letter to my MP me thinks.

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Re: rolling it back

"Que one new PM throwing his ID card away, and urging the rest of us to do so too. I just hope there's a policeman at hand to slap a no littering fine on him, we know who you are."

Point 1: It's "Cue", As in Autocue. Cueing up.

Point 2: No worries, there's no criminal intent so no investigation. Honest.

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Black Helicopters

Id only they understood

the phrase

Go fuck yourself

ah well thats the Stazi turning up for me tonight

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Coat

Terrorism Act 2006

ID cards... needed to prevent terrorism according to our Governmental overlords,

i.e. terrorists would want to destroy the ID card system

Therefore saying nasty things about them could be an offence under the 2006 Act

# Acts Preparatory to Terrorism

or

# Encouragement to Terrorism

Think I will have a lie down in case I feel the need to stretch a point that far again. The English justice system can't be that mad? can it? Or is reading this an offence....

Mines the one with "you don't have to be paranoid to live here, but it helps" on the back

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Ash
Flame

Jail before ID Cards

I point blank won't carry one.

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Anouncement at the hospital

Ladies and Gentlemen, I regret to inform you that we are experiencing some network problems. As we are unable to verify ID cards today, we cannot treat anyone on the national health. Please stop being ill for a few days until we have a system working again. Those of you considering private medicine, please remember that many private hospitals deal with complications and accidents by sending patients here. The security staff will not let the doctors into the operating theatre or drug supply cupboards until they can verify our ID cards, so this is not a good time to have an emergency.

Those of you wishing to seek medical attention abroad should remember that all flights have been cancelled for the last two days because the pilot's database was accidently deleted, and pilots are busy logging enough flight hours to re-qualify.

TonyB Liar will be remembered for contributing towards the deaths of thousands in Iraq all because of some fictional bio-weapons. Who is Gordon going to kill for some kickbacks from IT companies?

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Black Helicopters

Right

That is it, I am off to the hills to live as a wildman. I stupidly lost my wallet the other day and it had my driving licence in it, if I had a bloody ID card in there as well how much would I be looking at shelling out now?

Does Hillier realise by effectively saying; "well, they could not stop us now if they tried" she is not sounding like she is entirely for due democratic process.

rrrgh, this bloody country.

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Black Helicopters

democracy?

Recently i heard a banker suggest that the world's financial systems would never be the same again as the fallout from all this risky behaviour is too great.

Unfortunately i think something equally as bad and caused by their incompetence needs to happen before politicians start to realise they are public servants with responsibilities to each and everyone of the population.

I personally think that aside from the all the ways they are taking my civil liberties away, the main reason i cannot look at any politician is their complicity in american rendition and Guantanamo.

I dont want to use the word torture, as that cannot be proven but all those smug self-serving idiots at the labour conference have blood on their hands.

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If ...

"the Tories and LibDems would find it impossible to unpick the government’s ID card scheme", then it is time we technically literate people got together to ensure that it is made completely unworkable, whether "unpicked" or not. It *cannot* be allowed to be imposed on us.

And those of us who believe that the Tories would "unpick" it should remember that it was Michael Howard, a Tory, who first mooted this poisonous scheme, shortly before the Tories were booted out in favour of, er, the other, current, Tories - and that the LibDems stand about as much chance of forming the next government as Register commentators.

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Flame

It isn't the Government ...

Many of the posts here blame the NuLab Government, (big G), but I think the driving force has always been the government (little g) of Sir Humphreys who for centuries have been striving for 'better' government with fewer loopholes. The 'Reasonable Man' idea is being removed from all laws in favour of 'everything not forbidden is compulsory' because then everything is a clear black or white so that the taxing and enforcing agencies will know where they stand. And they start with children who will grow up with Identity Documents and not worry about them when they are adults.

We can always vote politicians out, but we cannot get rid of the civil servants. We are on a hiding to nothing if we think we can.

But I have a tiny little piece of hope from this Pandora's box: the system of tatooing a blue number on one's forearm was stopped (even though it took the deaths of scores of millions of people to do it) and the Pass Laws were removed from South Africa. Is nothing won without sacrifice?

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Unpicking

"There isn’t an easy way to unpick this scheme"

So that wouldn't be an unconstitutional binding by one parliament of its successors then.

Of course, she's talking rot. It would be easy to unpick. All you need to do is lose the CD-ROM containing the biometrics and it is unpicked. It's so easy that I expect it will be unpicked before it is picked to start with. I am sooo not the first person to point this out that I am simply stunned that it hasn't sunk in at a ministerial level yet. Aren't you disqualified from sitting in parliament below a certain IQ? Do we need spot checks?

What isn't so easy to unpick are the contracts that syphon billions out of the public purse, but here too there is a solution. Nail those responsible for maladministration and surcharge them. I'm sure that the prospect of losing ten billion pounds of her *own* money will make the minister rethink.

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Just FUCK OFF!!!

Seriously, this ID card is BULLSHIT, the government should FUCK OFF!

I'd put together a better arguement, but I really can't be arsed!

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Flame

Oh sweet Jesus

HOW can this FUCKING SHIT be HAPPENING???

Seriously — every day I wake up convinced more and more I am somehow living a nightmarish parallel universe with no clue how I got here.

I wish I could make them all just GO AWAY.

Death's too good for them.

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Black Helicopters

ID cards are only the vehicle

Once everyone has been indexed NuLabour won't care who carries the cards - they'll have the database they're after. The majority of the interrogation centres are now already set up and operational.

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IT Angle

STFU Labour

OMG Every day labour and there stupid reasoning and thoughts completey shock the whole world! The country and its shame of a political system needs a complete fecking overhaul! Since we are using a politics system from the 1800's its no surprise these over educated MP's with no real life experience hung themselves in the style of the politics they try playing.

The only hope for this country iMo is a completey new party with real people and a system much more reliant on the brains of the country (us the people)!

Time to book a flight export our lives and forget we come from the shambolic UK

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