What a vicious, evil cult
I hope they lose their tax-free "religion" status in the USA. This is not a religion. The worldwiide rallies on March 15 will no doubt be a turning point. http://www.operating-thetan.com
Talk about commitment. A former Church of Scientology investigator was required to contract himself to a group linked with the organization for one billion years, according to documents recently posted to whistleblower website Wikileaks. Of course, the employee was completely lucid when he made the promise to the CoS-related …
The "document" (HA) was obviously put together by the individual whose name and identifications appear at its beginning. Some of it headed with a dated in a different font than the type that follows. Authentic would be nice, but it looks like WIkileaks is perfectly willing to accept hand typed "documents", too. In the long run I would bet a Euro Wikileaks plans to challenge legality in a hundred ways. In the long run I would bet we are going to see international law, cooperation among nations, more cooperative law enforcement, because Wikileaks feels compelled to "expose" these trivial matters.
...of an organised religion.
And I am sure they already pay taxes: like their brethren in other faiths, they just do so via the special 'political donation' channel rather than via the tax department the rest of us use.
BTW: nice to see the Catholic Church diversifying their product portfolio this week too.
"Nothing to see here ... move along!" Right, Terryeo? If it's so trivial, why do you spend so much time patrolling the entire web, pretending to have "some" experience in Scientology, yet so adamant about damage control. You seem intelligent enough to be clever about it, yet not smart enough to know when to run from the avalanche of truth a la free speech. I'll match any euros you bet that you work for the OSA (it would be pretty pathetic if you weren't), and someday - if you're lucky in this lifetime - you will be a similar contributor to Wikileaks with your own telling story.
Rinder Blew - So Can You!
Published psychology papers show that people who think about violence are more likely to commit violent crimes. Nobody seems to want to question the definitions of a person who commits violent crimes (one who is caught) or that the data on thoughts came from the subject's own confession, nor of the fact that this can also be taken as simply that people who confess to things get caught.
With this being passed as science you can understand some of the attraction of an organised religion primarily founded on its being bull.
I would like to introduce you to "Terryeo" . Any online search engine will show you a huge string of his massively Scientology biased, nonobjective posts (appart from a few jokers posing as him), his banning from wikipedia editing of the scientology article, and in general all round outing by A.R.S and other knowledgeable critics as a member of OSA the very censorship organization your article is about, the 'Office of Special Affairs'.
The OSA usual main tactic is 'ad hominem' attacks, and thread derailment, completely ignoring any pertinent questions.
Consider yourselves forewarned.
Maybe Wikileaks can be used to expose other "religions" for the misguided virus-like sicknesses they are.
Does anyone have access to the similar paperwork for the "Special Groups" inside Christian, Muslim, and Catholic organisations?
Unfortunately, the whole "tax free" religious thing is a really nice scam that continues to haunt many governments. Some of the towns around here have a church almost on every corner - all not paying property taxes, but all expecting police/fire protection and roads to their door, and all the other things that taxes pay.
I for one am getting tired of subsidizing all the crazy religious nutjobs that I disagree with. If someones religion requires them to own lots of property, that should NOT be a protected "right". Protect BELIEF, not land. Let them pay the same taxes as everyone else. It's time our secular governments got off the pot and gave the heave-ho to these scammers. All of them.
The Bible, Qur'an and .. The Bible are already out there, free to obtain and well documented.
Those religions also do not sue for copyright infringement.
I can't speak for the muslims but the Christians tel you exactly where your donations go, and don't run home gulags like the RPF.
Silly me responding to OSA targeted thread derailment,
Back on topic, the actual questions, thoughts on the criminal intent of the 'Church' of Scientology.revealed in the documents leaked?
Oh, Incidentally the church of Scientology has filed for a restraining order on '1-500 'john does' this week, to attempt to cull the Anonymous protest in clearwater.
Way to shoot yourself in the foot contesting the First Amendment, Free Speach and the Right to Protest.
I cant even imagine working for the same company for 5 years in a row, imagine being stuck working for them for a billion years.
You die, you go to St Peter "Sorry pal, you signed a billion year contract. Over that way with the other suckers." He points to a group of other souls in no mans land looking really unhappy chained to typewriters doing whatever the fuck it is that Scientologist employees do.
"Guess you should have read the fine print a bit better, eh?"
Steady mate - it wasn't the Chief Constable of the Met who was there, it was the divisional commander of the local Snow Hill police station. And he didn't open it, just welcomed the fruitloops.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of this cult, but you need to be accurate. Otherwise all your points are open to question. And so it goes...
PS: where IS the IT angle?
If one manages to untangle 23:23's grammar his/her argument seems to amount to the following:
"I have heard about scientific studies which don't seem very scientific to me. They don't seem very scientific to me because I can think of other explanations for the data besides the ones the researchers reached.
"I don't know much about these studies, as you can tell by the fact that I can only describe them very vaguely. However, I have chosen these studies to represent all of mainstream science. Obviously, since these studies (at least in my vague summary) are completely BS, the only other alternative that makes sense -- OBVIOUSLY -- is an organized religion! Such a religion would be based on the following principles:
"* these studies I refer to vaguely are NOT science;
"* sticking tin cans attached to a primitive ohmmeter into someone's hands and claiming it can read their thoughts (and that those thoughts, as "mental mass", have a weight that will register on a conventional scale) IS science;
"* claiming that someone has a rash on their backside because their mother asked for an aspirin when they were in the womb and their little fetal ears heard it as "ass burn" IS science;
"* claiming that it's not only safe to stick someone in a sauna for hours on end and give them doses of niacin far above the level at which niacin is known to do liver damage, but that it will actually make any drugs or toxins trapped in their fatty tissues (including the ones that are water-soluble and won't be in their fatty tissues to begin with) come out through their skin as colorful ooze, IS science, because a science-fiction writer who dropped out of college said it was so."
Sorry, 23:23. There are some poorly done scientific studies out there, yes. But never, not even in comparison to the WORST ones you can find, will Scientology EVER look sensible or respectable.
Even cults started and run by criminals or the criminally insane. Look at Christian Science and the Mormons. I don't think anyone would argue that members of those are anything other than ordinary middle class people now?
So what's the current status of Scientology? Is this leak current, or more stuff from 20 years ago?
You definitely seem to be the second kind of CoS poster.
Aside: The benefit of being an atheist is I don't get sucked into foolish things such as CoS. The draw back of being an atheist is I can't say they are doing anything wrong because they are simply humans like me maximizing their happiness and minimizing their pain.
Sucks to be human ...
This cult has me infuriated. They are now posting videos on YouTube posing as Anonymous and making death threats against people who have nothing to do with anything. Of course they don't allow ratings or comments on these videos to stop Anonymous from discrediting them. The CoS does not realize that these actions will strengthen the resolve of Anonymous and will make the collective grow and grow to a point where they will outnumbers members of the CoS. If you are aware of all of the CoS' atrocities both past and present and want to do something about it then you too are Anonymous. Anonymous has no leadership and no official membership requirements.
If you want the REAL, UNFILTERED DATA on why Anonymous is doing what it does, go to march15.org, youfoundthecard.com and finally, enturbulation.org.
If you want to read numerous accounts of life inside the CoS from people who have left, go to exscientologykids.com.
Where is the line between a religion and a cult?
I'm not calling anything in particular a religion or a cult. I'm not sticking up for or condemning any organization or group, despite having my own membership and likes/dislikes. But I have thought about this, and I can't produce an answer.
A religion is...?
A cult is...?
It seems to me this is similar to the whole "what is marriage" thing we here in The States are struggling with. There are multiple definitions, and the government gives things to people who are married, and therefore has a horse in the race of defining marriage, even though it's not clear it should. (It's not clear it shouldn't, either.)
There are two definitions I can come up with.
The first, my own thinking (although perhaps not novel), is that a religion is anything calling itself a religion that happens to be true. So we just have to prove the existence of God*, go talk to him, ask him some questions, and we'll have that sorted out. (*Or Allah, or multiple gods, or whatever other higher powers are supposed to exist by the calling-itself-a-religion in question.)
The second is something I heard a long time ago: the difference between a cult and a religion is the size of its membership.
Please, someone, put forth some superior definitions.
Time is of no Relative Importance to the AESThetan. 42 Feed the Need that Drives One to XXXXCellents is More than Enough to Satisfy Anyone and Everyone with Time on their Hands and Paper Money to Spend. And IT Creates ITs Own Very Astute Driver Operating System which is Globally Inclusive of Exclusivity. ........ for Added Www00mph...... Passion.:-)
The Medicine which is destroying the Cancerous Wall Street? Money per se is not the Sub-Prime Credit Crunch Problem, it is the Criminal Ethics and/or the complete Lack of Moral Ethics [and that would be an interesting Defense Admission in Mitigation/Robust Offence] right at the Top of their Systems, which permit and reward the Enterprise which spreads their Failures.
No wonder now they only can play on their own, amongst themselves, with false hopes in more confetti, simply confirming the diagnosis and prognosis .... Brain Dead and not Fit for Future Purpose.
I think if you check the employment laws in most states (in the US) and in other countries, there is a maximum length of time you can lock up your life to one employer... I think it's generally between five and seven years, and almost always no more than ten years... so that so-called employment contract could not stand up in court... not without taking over the courts.
But, I suppose COS has plans for the contingency too...
Flame because I expect the COS freaks will do their best to burn me.
Late Night Larry
If you want a laugh, go to Tottenham Court Road and take the "free stress test" offered by the CoS (just a short walk from Goodge Street station)
Within minutes they're giving you a speech about how stresed you are and how the book they have large piles off sitting around will help you become unstressed....
I've been half tempted to sign up to their brand of crazy simply to find out how screwed up they really are...
"He points to a group of other souls in no mans land looking really unhappy chained to typewriters doing whatever the fuck it is that Scientologist employees do." .... By lglethal Posted Thursday 13th March 2008 00:31 GMT
Who needs Action when got Wwwords AIResearch ...... for the Virtually Minded Spiritually Uplifted.
"doing whatever the fuck it is that Scientologist employees do." Which is, Iglethal?
Although this unauthorised but extensively researched bio of Hubbard is out of print and commanding silly prices on Amazon, it can be freely and legally downloaded from http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm
(gzip version available someway down the page)
As for CoS vs PRQ? My money is on the pirates.
scientology idiots seem to believe in an afterlife and magic spirits. When they are just about to die they can repent and beg the "real" god for mercy, the god of Abraham, the garden of Eden dude. When facing death they all chicken out. It is a cowards cult after all.
There's just been a rather suspicious opening of a little shop called "Ron's Bookstore" which stocks nothing but Hubbard's books here in Vienna. It's well painted and lit, with a flat panel tv showing some video footage and comfy leather chairs.
And it's choc full of Hubbard's books. Should I be scared?
While wikileaks has some experience of companies trying to take them and their hosting servers down, I doubt they've faced something quite as mentalist and prepared to go to any lengths as the cult freaks of Scientology.
btw - who wants to bet a fiver that this poor guy whose contract it purports to be, goes missing sometime soon?!
I hope El Reg is ok with dealing with this bunch of weirdos.
I think it is very well known that when ever an article about this pseudo religion goes up on any site, their amry of Lord Xeenu fanboys will flock to the available comments section in order to prove to everyone that their legally approved factets show that we are all dumb and they are all correct.
No doubt we have all been profiled and catalogued by these lovely people as soon as we read the story.
Now, can someone pass me my tinfoil hat please?
"Which is, Iglethal?"
Surprising that you spelled lglethal with a capital i there instead of a small L, amanfrommars. Not very copy-paste there...
More on topic, I agree with the thoughts above on religion's exemption from many many things. Free thought and free speech, go for it, with the old quotation that went something like "I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it". Charities get tax exemption; if a religion is categorised as a kind of charity for the entertainment and moral straightening of at least part of the community, then I'm all for it. But the utter polarity of religion as a be-all and end-all (whether considering traditional or CoS) is taking it too far.
Scientology always amuses me, where is the harm really, they are like any other religion, in some ways they are more open about it.
I am not sure where the motivation comes from to go after them, so yes I am beginning to think it is the OCD crowd, picking on a low level target. You are not forced to join them or pay them, unlike some of the organizations we do have in place.
Scientology does bite back though, not as harshly as some of our institutions, but they do seem to have some fight in them. I think it is the brainwashing of modern Christianity that has caused this, combined with media psyops to create a distracting element to take the heat off the real problems a society may face. So, yes when looked at objectively Scientology is a good scape goat, a whipping boy used to bury other stories that have more impact on our lives.
I used to be an atheist but I found myself getting so annoyed by other fundamentalist atheists (E.g.: Dawkins) that I now take an apatheist attitude.
I still think organised religions/cults are dangerous, not just to society as a whole, but also to their own followers. But, if it wasn't religions it would be the government, or something else.
Also, it's an interesting look people get on their face when you tell them you don't give a flying feck if there [is a god|are gods] or not. :-)
This is a religion, which it's "Followers" say has existed for thousands of years, yet has "religious texts" protected by copyright, which in the UK is the life time of the author plus 75 years and since L. Ron Hubbard died in 1986, as the Author his copyright will end in the UK in 2061. If it is thousands of years old it cannot be copyrighted.
"The people chasing scientologists are just obsessive compulsive. Once they were the obsessive compulsives that believe Scientology is all true - reading and writing the same asinine documents they are now exposing.
Now they are obsessive compulsive that it's not true. But, anyone sane can see that it's bollocks anyway, so what's the great exposé?"
The bollocks *is* the great exposé. Without ex-victims to release that stuff we would only have the public image, which is that Scientology is basically a self-help group giving you guidance on how to live and providing an alternative to clinical, academic psychology. We would probably see it as a somewhat kooky but harmless group with some token celebrities in tow, of no more interest than Kabbalah and Madonna. We would have no idea that they believe that everyone is infected by alien souls dumped into a volcano by an evil emperor from outer space.
I was accosted by that bloke on Tottenham Court Rd this afternoon. I told him to "fuck off".
Honestly, that was as polite a thing as I could think of saying - I accidently fell into the clutches of the CoS nutcases in Auckland quite a few years ago and will always remember the experience -
My girlfriend and I we out and about on a Sunday morning, and thought it would be a laugh to take the "free IQ test" advertised on a sandwich board.
When we'd done these tests and had the results analysed, I discovered our mistake as these people separated us and launched into some serious headfuck sessions, deliberately designed to set us against each other in an effort to sell us copies of one of L.Ron Hubbard books.
Ok, so you have served your "1 Billion years" contract. The Sun is turning into a red giant, and the Earth is getting a tad uncomfortable. Now your immortal soul, or what ever is left of it after Ron and his mates have completely ***ked it over, is at a loose end. You can't go down to the pub, as that melted ages ago... What the hell do you do now?
Frankly, if you can't step back and do a simple reality check before you join this cult, you deserve everything that's coming to you. The rest of us however will have evolved and moved on... Maybe this is what Darwin had in mind?
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