back to article BitTorrent admin's police bail extended (again)

Cleveland police have extended the bail granted to the former administrator of an alleged music piracy site for a second time, in a bid to collect more evidence for a case that could mark a watershed for UK internet law. Alan Ellis, a 24-year-old IT worker from Middlesbrough, was arrested in October on suspicion of conspiracy …

COMMENTS

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Gordon

I wonder how much this is costing?

I bet if the Police lose we'll all be paying this chap's costs out of our tax bill?

Really, though, I'm not too shocked by the state of affairs. I'd have though that, once the police have appeared in the media and stated things he simply had not done, their case would be pretty screwed.

The fact is he didn't "download it to his website" - that's the whole bloody point !!! Neither did he charge people to use it (although he perhaps did to advertise on it?). It seems to be the copper mentioned doesn't have the faintest clue about the technology, methods or even the business model employed.

A perfect indication of why the Police are completely ineffective against computer crimes. The Majority don't understand them, don't see them as "serious" as their isn't any blood and find the intrinsic complication difficult to grasp. What we need is a US-Style system of being able to recruit experts directly into the Police, where they start as detectives who never do street duties, are paid as technical experts and actually understand what they're trying to achieve.

I understand IT well enough to be useful in support and I have served in the Police.

Dave

hmmm...

This case is starting to look like a PR exercise! all I can say is Good Luck Alan.

Anonymous Coward
Stop

Another delay..

Sounds like they're having trouble finding something to charge him with. Free the Middlesbrough One!

Anonymous Coward
Pirate

Can the last person to log out....

please remember who shut the net down...

If it gets set in law, that to provide a service thay may provide information or links to information to facilitate in the acts of a potentialy ilegal activities then the web may as well shut down....

any website selling anything will be in danger of possible charges... say someone is going to stiff there credit card company, and buys a bucket load of CD's or DVD's from amazon with no intention of paying for the goods, then are amazon going to be held liable? and then if the movies and dvd's are used as source materal for someone to sell ilegal copies, again will amazon be held liable?

if i go into tesco, and eat a packet of crisps without paying, will tesco be held responsible for my actions because they put the crisps on the shelf.... more inportantly, they put a sign up telling me where they are so i could go and steal them?

if i was to get a job as a locksmith, and learned how to pick a locks... if later on i used my skills to open someones door to go in and steal the TV. will my tutor be held responsible for teaching me how to pick locks?

just because someone tells you where you can download a copy of a movie or a bunch of mp3's from, its ultamately YOUR responsibility if you do it or not...

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Hmmm

So they returned the server wiped? That sounds a bit vindictive, especially if the chap is found innocent. I love to see the suit for damages.

However, even before then, I was under the impression that all information available to the prosecution had to be available to the defence so that they had the chance to counter any allegations. If they wiped the server, then any evidence that might have been on the server which could have aided the defence, has been destroyed by the prosecution.

I'm no lawyer, so I may be completely wrong!

I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects
Happy

Hamless offairs.

"Critics accused Cleveland police of allowing itself to be misled by the record industry anti-piracy lobby. In the BBC News report of the raid, for example, Ellis was accused of "illegally downloading music on to his website" and Detective Inspector Colin Green wrongly stated that OiNK users paid subscriptions"

It was a red rag to a porker though, calling it Oink. Our boys in blue are not exactly famous for treading lightly, especially in matters electroiink.

Lul Whut
Pirate

Are they going after Google next?

I've used google to search for YSI/Sendspace/etc uploads of every new album I've cared for since Oink shut down...

system

Guilty!

TheReg is hereby found guilty of telling the world about the existance of "The Pirate Bay", an entity previously unknown to world + dog.

Please send a signed, blank check to I.F.P.I to avoid prosecution.

I'll take £10 on the police delaying any sort of case until december 2020, when they will find some ridiculous and ancient bylaw they can prosecute him under. I doubt very much they can prove oink affected the honour or reputation of the record labels with the amount of tat they put out these days.

Anonymous Coward
Happy

Sue and Be Damned

It would seem to me that if he is aquited then he should be able to take them to court under the computer misuse act and sue for loss of earnings

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

A title is required.

"The conspiracy to defraud investigation is likely to be centred on the "hundreds of thousands of pounds" of proceeds from OiNK Clevleand police's press release said they expected to uncover."

"Hundreds of thousands of pounds." Should become a new meme.

Instead they found several pizza boxes - empty.

A few empty cans of cola, and a dirty towel.

Once again our boys in blue prove their worth. Thanks for nothing guys - how abouts you go catch some criminals now.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

monkey hanging police and 100K's

This from the force that was reported to have spent 400K refitting the chief constables home many years ago.

FWICR they then had the front to use funds to apply for a gagging order to stop national press from reporting the facts and request extra funds from the local .gov.

Barry Rueger
Silver badge
Coat

Terrerists!!!

To AC: "If it gets set in law, that to provide a service thay may provide information or links to information to facilitate in the acts of a potentialy ilegal activities then the web may as well shut down...."

Hey - you fergot Terrerists in there! Don't ferget that downloading Britney Spears aids the terrerists!

Paul

NOT police bail - magistrates or crown courts!

will people, the BBC and The Register, please STOP calling it "police bail". the Police do not set bail conditions, the courts set bail, the police are an instrument to enforce bail conditions.

sigh.

Drew Cullen
(Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

Re: NOT police bail - magistrates or crown courts!

"If there's not enough evidence to charge you, you'll be released on police bail. You don't have to pay to be released on police bail, but you'll have to return to the station for further questioning when asked."

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/powers/custody/

Mat
Thumb Up

Well done Paul.

Nicely done.. Oooh I can feel the heat from here!!

Steve

Re: NOT police bail - magistrates or crown courts

"the Police do not set bail conditions, the courts set bail, the police are a bunch of tools to enforce bail conditions."

Fixed

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

@Paul

You got owned

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

Re: Can the last person to log out....

Well, actually the High Court of Hamburg in Germany has ruled that for German websites, the website operator is liable for the content that he links to, even if it is an external and different website, unless there is a statement specifically disclaiming such liability.

That's why you get the link "Impressum" on most German websites with a statement expressly disclaiming all liability for linked content.

Rhys Briffett

What the..?

"It was shut down by a high profile dawn raid on his flat"

Surely a quiet knock on the door in mid-afternoon would have sufficed?

George Johnson
Thumb Up

Obiligatory Slashdot Star Wars quotes...

"If you strike me down, I shall..."

"The more you tighten your grip, the more..."

Anonymous Coward
Stop

@Paul - wrong (since 1994)...! BBC/Register - Correct!

Section 27 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994:

Power for police to grant conditional bail to persons charged (1) Part IV of the [1984 c. 60.] Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (detention of persons, including powers of police to grant bail) shall have effect with the following amendments, that is to say, in section 47 (bail after arrest)—

(a) in subsection (1), for the words after “in accordance with” there shall be substituted the words “sections 3, 3A, 5 and 5A of the Bail Act 1976 as they apply to bail granted by a constable”; and

(b) after subsection (1) there shall be inserted the following subsection—

“(1A) The normal powers to impose conditions of bail shall be available to him where a custody officer releases a person on bail under section 38(1) above (including that subsection as applied by section 40(10) above) but not in any other cases.

In this subsection, “the normal powers to impose conditions of bail” has the meaning given in section 3(6) of the Bail Act 1976.”.

(2) Section 3 of the Bail Act 1976 (incidents including conditions of bail in criminal proceedings) shall be amended as follows—

(a) in subsection (6), the words “(but only by a court)” shall be omitted;

(b) at the end of subsection (6) there shall be inserted— “and, in any Act, “the normal powers to impose conditions of bail” means the powers to impose conditions under paragraph (a), (b) or (c) above”;

Etc., etc., etc., ... :-)

Simon Buttress
Thumb Up

@Paul

pwned.

Joe K
Pirate

Hmm

""It was shut down by a high profile dawn raid on his flat"

Surely a quiet knock on the door in mid-afternoon would have sufficed?""

Ah but then he could have had time to delete all the evil pirate music he was hiding in there, and microwaved all the pirate CD's, and hide the guns, ect.

ryan
Coat

re: @Paul, You got owned

PWNership is 9/10 of the law.

Anonymous Coward
Anonymous Coward

heh

"Critics accused Cleveland police of allowing itself to be misled by the record industry anti-piracy lobby. In the BBC News report of the raid, for example, Ellis was accused of "illegally downloading music on to his website" and Detective Inspector Colin Green wrongly stated that OiNK users paid subscriptions. ®"

I do quite like the fact that the police obviously did no investigation into the matter at all before blundering in like a bunch of babboons.

Not that they do that alot....

David

Last one standing

Would the last person to leave the room remember to turn off the internet. No.................not your own PC - the ENTIRE internet!

Terry
Stop

Follow the money

While this poor chap may or may not get away with the rather lame excuse of being innocent of any crime matters little. You, your great grand children, nor their genetically engineered talking dog will live to see the day when Google is prosecuted for the exact same acts. Won't happen. Not ever. Follow the Money.

Just like SCO, IFPI etc KNOW not to play hard ball with the big boys. Oh wait, that's right, SCO was doing really well blackmailing small companies for several thousands. It's when they got greedy and took on IBM the whole scheme blew up on them. You can bet the labels know better than that.

In the US there are myriad laws the labels could be prosecuted under. But thus far they have managed to bribe -- 'er campaign contribute -- their way clear of them.

My solution has always been ELECT BETTER leaders. You want this fixed? Vote ONE of these losers out of office. Problem solved! Good and Final. Until then the cartels will continue to continue to blackmail business and terrorize individuals.

Steve Sherlock

Hundreds of thousands...

Hundreds of thousands my "place where sun don't shine". Who downloads music/movies/games/whatever? Simple, people who are too tight to go buy it. These donation-driven sites barely, if at all, bring in enough to cover running costs.

Let's just hope the courts see the full picture and not just the propaganda that's fed too them by the REAL thieves...

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