back to article Dutch demand ban of virtual child porn in Second Life

The Dutch prosecutor's office is considering legal actions to test the law against child porn in the popular virtual game Second Life. With no clear litigation, it is difficult to act against perpetrators. Kitty Nooij, who is in charge of the sex offences portfolio at the prosecutor's office in the Netherlands, told Dutch news …

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Second Life Resident, Kamilion Schnook, is not happy with this.

I frankly resent that all 4 million of us Second Life users are now being called pedophiles from the actions of a few idiots.

I, and my two business partners, run the San Francisco simulator in Second Life, usually reaching the Popular Places listing; None of these things happen there, and yet these dutch people are calling us pedophiles.

Just because I call myself a carrot does not make me a carrot; thus, just because someone calls themselves a child in a virtual world does not make them a child.

Frankly, I hope the dutch ISPs just ban second life outright, then we'll see who really looks stupid in a few years. :)

"Experts, such as psychologist Jos Buschman of the Van Mesdag clinic in Groningen, say Second Life is "by definition a school for paedophiles""

Then Jos Buschman is a complete retard, and can't be called an Expert, as I'm willing to bet they have never set a byte in Second Life. Stop calling these people experts when they have NO clue what they're talking about.

Cheers, BOFH forever!

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Kamilion

Dear Kamilion,

Any point you may have had in your post was lost in insults. Next time, why not try to make a point against the claims of the expert as opposed to just calling them retards?

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Immagination or Reality ?

Although I do not condone such acts.. my concern is that if you make Roleplaying of Illegal activities a criminal offence then your opening a pandoras box of issues. And opening people up to being prosecuted for simply what they are thinking of and not what they do.

How far will this go ? am I going to be locked up for having sex with my girlfriend who sometimes dresses like a schoolgirl. What about characters virtual communities that arent human, will they be prosecuted for indecency and beastiality. Are those who go around killing characters online going to be prosecuted for murder ?

if all the people within the community are over 18 does that not give them the right to explore ideas with each other.

Im not saying its justifyable simply that I can see a clear distinction between Pretend Fantasy and Reality.

Just my 2cents

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Anonymous Coward

Political correctness gone mad

It wasn't all that many years ago that Westerners shook their heads in dismay at the thought that the world contained large numbers of people sufficiently benighted that they would condemn a man to death for the words he had written (The Satanic Verses, in case the reference was too obscure). Now, even nominally progressive countries (at least the Amsterdam I visited a few decades ago seemed far more progressive - not to mention interesting - than the U.S. that I was used to) want ban fantasy role-playing and lock people up for cartoons.

What's next: thought crimes? I have no problem whatsoever with throwing the book at anyone who actually abuses a child, and am happy to extend that to prohibitions on any material resulting from such abuse, but this is absurd. No direct causal link can possibly be demonstrated between fantasy behavior and child abuse (or anything else, for that matter): at most, some correlation may exist - but locking people up on that basis rather than on the basis of their *actions* should be the stuff of fiction (Majority Report), not reality.

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Anonymous Coward

Er, that should probably have been "Minority Report"

- haven't seen the movie, just found its premise interesting.

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Anonymous Coward

Many Second Life Residents are Concerned

The whole ageplay thing has a lot of people concerned. It's not just simulated sexual abuse on a limited scale, anymore. There are avatars of children soliciting sex acts in public places and some people are even engaging in simulated violent physical abuse of children. Even if this is all play acting between consenting adults it will only reinforce the desire to engage in acts of child abuse in the real lives of these individuals. There is no cure for child molesters and they should not be given any dark corners to hide in and practice their techniques. The Dutch legislators are right to act since most people in San Francisco are willing to condone any sexual deviance, no matter how evil or revolting.

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what about murder?

if consenting adults roleplaying ageplay is illegal... shouldnt people roleplaying murder, or any virtual killing, be held responsible too?

I think some people here are missing the point. They are just trying to stop the physical representation of child sex. Its illegal in their country, so they want to stop it. They didnt say its wrong for people to ageplay, or roleplaying in general, or even thinking about it... (as its done in real life, not just online), just making graphical representations of children involved in sexual acts is not legal (for the Dutch).

I have seen it in second life, and i do find it quite disturbing... not sure who finds it stimulating to make their (very detailed) avatars do sex acts as, or with children. Most every adult sexual place bans the use of child looking avatars in sexual acts. The problem is there is no set child avatar, or adult, or anything... you can make your avatar look like anything at all that you can think of (or have enough skill to make).

I do not understand how people can think this is a "training ground." because of cartoony looks? You arent learning anything about how to get involved with children, no matter how someone is roleplaying. Thats like saying people use GTA to learn how to kill and steal cars for their life of crime... or saying they want to go out and kill people and steal things just because they did it in a video game.

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heh

Start of Lolz

I suppose these "experts" are the same sort of people that believe playing GTA and Marilyn Manson leads to people going on deranged killing rampages...

Now do I think the whole area is a bit sick, sure, do I think it shouldn't be allowed in public view, sure, do I think it should result in legal precedings and deranged accusations? No.

I know some people who have some pretty crazy fantasies, one person has this thing for being eaten alive while having sex with something. I know some others who have this thing about penis so big they split woman in two. I know this one lass who has a thing for grinding body parts up.

Pretty crazy, scary stuff. However they're all very normal folk, with normal jobs, who have normal sex in normal ways with normal people. It's just everynow and again whilst strumming the bean or spanking the monkey they think about some REALLY demented things. They write odd fiction or draw peculiar pictures. *shrugs*

But that's the thing, there is a distinct difference between real and fantasy, all these "experts" do is provide excuses for truely deviant people who have lost touch with what it is to be a human being.

And where does it stop, virtual pedophilia, virtual bestiality, virtual murder, virtual rape, virtual S&M, virtual GBH, virtual Tentical rape?

If I were playing a tentical monster that rapes a large number of (prearranged willing) loli at once then what? Am I a pedophilic tentical monster? The possibilities are mind bogling, "Cthullu was yesterday arrested for molesting twelve loli at once with his huge tenticals, he was also accused of mass murder and bringing about a virtual apocolypse." He is to server 7 billion consecutive terms for virtual murder, and 12 terms for raping a virtual minor.

end of lolz

O well, funny stuff.

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GTA

Will it now be illegal to play any video game that allows you to role play illegal activities? Can we not watch movies that depict theft, murder or rape? Although I think it's sick, I think it's better that these people are living their fantasies virtually than committing real criminal acts. These types of activities existed before Second Life and if they're banned in the virtual world, they'll continue in "first life".

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well

I have to say that people shouldn't use the whole

"It's better them doing it in second life then in real life" tatt

Becouse 99.99% or the people who do roleplay these things would never ever do it in real life anyway and the 0.01% of people who would are proberbly already doing it.

And we should all remember that most child molestation occurs within the family by parents, uncles, aunts, grand parents and first cousins.

All this other stuff is a smoke screen to hide us from the truth, to place the fear on the bogeyman the phantom childmolesting curtain twithcer.

For every one kid hurt by a stranger there are likely dozens, if not hundreds hurt by a family member/close family friend.

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Blinded by the light.

There is so much media circus around secondlife ,that until you have stepped foot there are lead to believe in wonderous things on the horizion of virtual technology that you get totally blinded ,and its no wonder that people get shocked at the pornography left and right that they were not warned about before hand.

The question´s are why has the media neglected to inform people of the sexual content of this world?

And why is it , that only the Dutch have exercised precaution to this new virtual world while others are diving into it.?

And why does there have to be porn there anyway?

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Anonymous Coward

Isn't this activity against the USA's PROTECT act of 2003?

I am Lance Sismondi in Second Life. I have been arguing against child sex RP in the SLexchange forums and I agree with Jos Buschman. I could not get one single person that engages in the act of child sex RP as the adult avatar to dialog with me anonymously to "educate me" as to the harmless nature of their child sex RP. Why would anyone engage in this activity in a virtual world if they did not have those very same real life desires? The areas of SL that cater to these pedophiles, such as the Jailbait RP area, and yes I have been there, are providing an environment for pedophiles to war game their strategies and fan their erotic child sex desires. When the erotic thrill they get wanes over time, will they turn to real life targets? I say that it is a good possibility that some may do just that. I'll go out on a limb and state that a good many of them probably have child porn on their computers. You can not use hate speech in SL, but you can simulate child rape. What the hell? I know the act is between 2 consenting adults, which has nothing to do with the fact that these jerks are getting of to their imagined child sex RP. Apparently, the Protect act is still untested regarding this issue and is ripe for it now. Convicted sex offenders that have SL accounts and engage in this activity ARE breaking the law according to a California Deputy DA.

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