619 posts • joined Tuesday 17th July 2007 09:39 GMT
Re: are friends electric?
Windows 8.x partially good, partially incredibly annoying. A bit like having a splinter in your finger. But everything comes down to this: Metro. Remove that and perhaps it will be a dead son rising instead of lost.
As it is windows 8 is just a hybrid. Pure annoyance.
Why would anybody keep the source code from you other than wanting to defraud you?
I can think of many reasons, but if you qualify that to free software from an unknown company, then your point becomes somewhat more valid.
N8 version would be nice.
Since Nokia developed this system, I would think it likely that some of the dev would have been done on N8 type devices, so a version for N8 would be a sensible idea, because there are loads out there in second hand shops, and support is being dropped prematurely by Nokia.
(It would be amusing if they also mad it available for iDevices that are dropped by iOS 7)
One app at once..….Just like iOS
Isn't that like iOS version 1 - 3 or something?
Years out of date?
Re: Although I don't seem to recall such indignation when Microsoft software was found phoning home
I'm pretty sure everything they did themselves was buried away in the EULA somewhere.
Re: This will follow its parent destiny....
> ..they realize it's going nowhere.
Much like WP7 then? (And WP8 when 9 comes out)
Luckily, WP looks good for the indefinite future
At least until WP9 comes out and your WP8 phone can't be upgraded to it.
If Microsoft can recover after killing their market
(and given their track record for dropping support for their non x86 platforms), why can't BlackBerry?
At least their handsets aren't managed by systems subject to the Patriot act or whatever.
Microsoft managed to sell Windows Phone
So why can't blackberry sell their new phones?
Especially since they aren't based in the USA.
WP Sort of makes sense as a feature phone replacement
Users of feature phones typically won't use many (or even any) apps, beyond some of what is built in.
So therefore they have no tie (other than experience of how operate the thing) to any platform.
So lack of Apps and lack of compatibility between versions of WP and lack of certainty of support, which would be show stoppers to most smartphone users, are not an issue.
If the price is right, then the only real thing is battery life.
Re: Surface does not make sense
> The IPad does not make sense
The point you miss is that the iPad used the same OS as the iPhone.
The iPad was NEVER a risk to anyone who purchased one. If it was a flop and became a niche product, it didn't matter, because it would still run iPhone softare.
The iPhone didn't start as a smart phone, but as an iPod music player that could also make phone calls. It was several revisions before it became a smart phone.
If RT is a flop, you are left with a web browser. It does not run WP software. Even if it did WP isn't really much of a success.
Already I can't do video chat with the latest Skype versions
I have to tell anyone I want to video conference with to go here and install this version:
(Note the on page information is incorrect, it says "we’ve created a special version of Skype for Windows desktop that will allow you to continue making video calls on older PCs." the truth is it allows video calls TO older versions of Skype.
Seems sticking to older versions, may be a solution to this issue too.
So how secure is this from the NSA
Being Canadian, it won't be subject to American laws, so they will have to use back doors into the phone, rather than the service?
If they really wanted to stick it to Microsoft ...
... they could make a free Mavericks lite (x86 only) to run on old PCs (and of course the macs with the wrong architecture) with the proviso that it is for demonstration only (but not restricted artificially) and not to be considered a full production system.
That would give the hackintosh crew a limited way out.
Re: MS will win
I see your logic. However I don't see it is as clear cut as you think.
Windows 8 is a fragmented platform. It is also awful to use. (For 9 out of 10 people, by the looks of things)
It is pure stubbornness on the part of Microsoft causing the usability problem. All they need to do is make metro programs able to work like widgets, and not seize the whole screen, and make the metro UI an option.
However, I think they still have the business desktop and laptop PC market sewn up. However, this market, probably is somewhat a tad smaller than they would like.
I think they have lost their hold on the home market. I think their legacy will mean they won't drop to trivial proportions, but I don't think they will dominate it any more. Tablets have achieved what the Netbook concept was supposed to. A simple low end computer, that does what people actually want with a minimum of fuss. (i.e. without the trouble of Windows).
WIndows RT is a dead duck. Why would anyone buy into it? Especially given Microsoft's precedents of abandoned non x86 platforms.
I think the original concept of Windows 8 was a tablet that, when at a desk, you plugged into a screen, and used in place of a keyboard. But I don't think the person who thought of this ever bothered to tell the rest of the team.
The problems with this concept are that x86 doesn't make a very good processor for a tablet. And that an ARM based tablet won't run the desktop programs. However the former doesn't have to be a show stopper, so it has fair chance, but is by no means guaranteed.
(I think the only way (current) windows 8 would be nice on a portable is in a form like a giant Nintendo DS).
I suspect MS will realize that pride plus an empty sack equals an empty sack, and backtrack.
.. about win phone it is a fast / secure / easy to use os
It is irrelevant how good it is, if you can't trust that it won't be made obsolete by the next OS being both incompatible with the hardware and software of the previous version? Or that it might be just dropped.
WM6 - WP7 - WP8 that incompatible with each other, that they should be regarded as different platforms.
Kin, Various non intel windows NT versions - dropped
Symbian, Meego. WP7 all dropped
And it is now looking like RT and WP will be merged into WP9. What are the chances of WP9 working on existing kit?
Linux is great...but just isn't user friendly enough for the average user
> Most people simply don't understand computers (or even care to understand) well enough to ensure that the right things get done.
But this situation is EXACTLY the same with windows too (and also to a degree also applies to Macs as well).
I think this is why tablets are popular, not because people want the form factor (though in some situations it is very good) but because they want the simplicity of iOS and (to a lesser extent,) Android.
This is why Windows on a tablet is a non starter. It retains all the complexity of old windows, but is different so that much current knowledge is no use. (Command line stuff all works OK, but how many normal users know that?)
Re: windows 8 is ok once you get used to it
(I know your comment is intended as irony, but thought it still deserved a comment.)
I think WIn 8 is OK once you turn of all the metro crap (though I'm still dubious about all the activation crap, but I assume that's not much worse than on XP.)
However, why would I want to pay for an OS that needs third party tools to remove parts of it that make it unusable? (Or is it now possible to remove all the metro on 8.1, without them.)
Re: She can use an Android tablet but can't learn a new interface
Surely the point is that if she is forced to learn a new interface, why would you stick to Windows, when an Android tablet would probably fit tthe requirements better, for far less money?
Re: Still not enough
> especially the crappy Start Menu!
I can happily live without the start menu. It is easy enough to put shortcuts onto the desktop and into folders (like program manager on windows 3.x) and to use the command shell. (Just like using an old Linux).
However, I'm not sure normal (non techie) users will agree on this one.
The thing I detest is the jumping to full screen for metro and metro apps, it is hideously jarring, and unlike MSDOS mode in windows 9x, doesn't give you an option for it to be within a window.
This for me is the show stopper. (And the price) Had the facilities to remove it been available when the cheap version of 8 was available, I would have purchased, but I found the preview so awful to use, I didn't bother.
> To get any form of traction against two entrenched ecosystems (Android and iOS) is a success.
Given that it was the replacement for a successful system from a leading manufacturer, and the sales are now perhaps reaching half the figure that Nokia were dissatisfied enough with to pull the plugs on Symbian, I don't think I would agree.
they should be able to do a bit better than just the cell, with current equipment.
Given that smartphones can work out their location reasonably well from just the relative strength of local transmitters, it should be possible for associated receivers to reverse the process. (Even if it only works well half the time, it will still be a gain).
An emergency app would be a good idea.
It would connect by any possible route; standard mobile internet, a special emergency APN or wifi (with public networks being mandated to allow the correct traffic to the emergency system's servers) failing that it would use MMS or SMS.
When used it would have the facilities of making a call, recording a voice message or a video or sending a written message and photos.
The options would be:
Make an emergency call. It would work like a normal call, but it would send an SMS or data message with all the location detail the phone has to the emergency center, which would be matched with the call for the operators.
Send an emergency text message. Send a written message describing the emergency, this would automatically contain all the location information, and alert the user if more location information is required. This would be sent to an emergency SMS center that could also be used manually from any phone.
Send an emergency media message, photo, voice or video.
Record an emergency as it happens. Uploaded directly to the servers, if possible.
It would also have an automatic answer mode, where it the emergency service could hear what is going on, for example in cases of kidnap. (Only working once the app is activated.)
Phones would offer whichever of these options they are capable of.
Re: Ignore the doom-sayers! Windows 8 is great!
The core may be.
But on a single screen machine, the UI (even with a touchscreen) is quite simply the worst I have ever used. (Apart from a particularly nasty PVR).
On dual screens it isn't too bad, however. All the metro garbage restricts itself to one screen, and if your work is primarily on the second screen, it doesn't mess you up.
The lack of start menu isn't a problem for anyone who has used windows 3.1 or any old linux distro.
It is very much like using Windows 3.1 (treat the desktop like program manager and fill it with shortcuts, and do anything complex via command line)
If the ability to remove metro didn't rely on third party apps, it would be quite decent system.
From the behavior of metro, it is almost as if the original designer expected the user to use a tablet where the keyboard would normally be and the second screen in the usual position, but never bothered to tell the rest of the organization. (It would work quite well with a Nintendo DS style laptop, or a keyboard sized touchscreen on a work station, shame no-one actually makes kit like that)
> Create a fullscreen black image, with a single white pixel in the middle.View it at 100%. Can you see the white pixel? When you can't see the white pixel with the screen resting on your nose, then you have reached the maximum required screen resolution.
Except for two things.
The eye will still register points of light that are smaller than the resolution it can see.
(Single black pixel on a white image would work).
Most people can't focus as close as the end of their nose. (I can't focus much closer than 9 inches, and I would not want to use a screen at less than 14 inches, preferably 18)
Make it a copyright issue.
i.e. The copyright of any naked pictures taken in private belongs to the subject.
If the subject choose to share pictures privately with anyone, their rights would be explicitly for personal use only, they can retain private copies, or delete them, nothing else.
The photographer has NO rights to intimate pictures. (And were they taken in secret, then obviously they would not even have implied personal use rights.)
Any breech of that, and the same rules as pirate movies or music would apply. (And we know what that's like in America.)
Obviously it would not apply to photo shoots or public displays. (For example antics a nightclub, with no ban on photography.) And of course, not if the subject has publicly published them.
The same could also be applied to the victims of crime, which would deal with happy slapping.
The main changes from the situation at present, all pictures taken in private showing nudity or the victim of a crime (anywhere) the copyright is with the subject, not the photographer.
Sharing pictures privately (or allowing personal ones to be taken) gives personal use rights only.
Pictures taken without permission in private (except when a crime is being recorded) the photographer has no rights to.
Publication of personal pictures (nudity, or other gross intrusion of privacy) would be treated as seriously as movie and music piracy.
snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Makes the mess at Nokia seem like a major success.
(Aren't they now back to 2/3 of the market they had before they killed symbian for selling too poorly)
an accurate statement...
True, but a very misleading one.
All these extra apps are designed for standard workstations, and will be dreadful to use in a tablet configuration.
Hopefully this will bring the price of the Pureview 808 down
to the level where I can justify one to replace my N8
Re: Thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
Perhaps I should rephrase; memory requirement, rather than management for the new OS.
I would have bought a playbook and tried it. However they dropped the plan to give it the OS.
Thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
I think they have seriously shot themselves in the foot by removing BIS.
BIS gives very cheap, (but limited - no streaming) internet access. That is the main reason I keep my BB. (The keyboard and text input is also very good).
The other showstopper (for me) is being poor with memory. My device (9700) was awful with the later OS, and when it came back from repair with the earlier one, I left it on.
I'm not going to go for a system that won't run on a 512 MB device, for starters I had intended to get a playbook to try it, but they have totally lost me as a customer for a new device now.
Re: that this is typical MS
Windows 3.x shit, but they persevered until it became a stable system.
Windows 95 Good (providing you didn't upgrade a 3.x system or use early Pentium machines)
Windows 98 shit, but they persevered until it became a stable system.
Windows ME only saw it once but it looked pretty rank
Windows NT 3.x Good (eventually)
Windows NT 4.x Good (eventually)
Windows 2000 Good
Windows XP shit, but they persevered until it became a stable system.
Vista shit, but they persevered until it became a stable system, but they called it Windows 7
Windows 8, up until yesterday I would have said that it is the worst system I have ever seen. However yesterday I tried it on a dual screen system, and it is usable. All the crap that makes a single screen system unusable, stays on one screen and goes away when you click on the other screen, so is far less jarring.
You can do pretty much everything you used to be able to do either via the command prompt or by creating shortcuts., so all in all, ON A DUAL SCREEN SYSTEM, it is not really any harder to use than Windows 3.1 or a Linux of a similar vintage. (It is a bit odd being back in 1991 though.)
The login screen is pretty dumb, but typical microsoft, why do one action to get to the login screen when three will do just as well?
XP - control-alt-delete - then you can enter credentials
8 - click on city scape, click back, click other user - you can now enter your credentials.
I can live without the start menu, it's Metro that is the nasty. A bit like jumping back to DOS from windows 3.1.
Having looked at how it works, it is almost like the designer intended that metro be used on a tablet input device, instead of a keyboard, but forgot to tell this to anyone else. I could actually imagine it working quite well on a giant DS style laptop. The problem is, it is vile on a single screen.
I think the fix would be (apart from the option to turn it off) to have it pop up in a regular window on desktop and laptop machines.
And on tablets, have a mode where the bottom third of the screen is metro and the top 2/3 desktop, (obviously better in portrait.)
That was quite a good film. (If you ignore that it is VERY clichéed) went with friends and family, everyone enjoyed it.
Acting and effects were good.
Didn't realise who her old man was though.
Turn off scripts?
Or even a firewall that rips scripts out of all sites that aren't on a whitelist or delivered by HTTPS.
Not that I know more than one person who's bought a Microsoft/Nokia
I've seen a couple, but most of the phones I think are Lumia at fist glance turn out to be Sony
Jolla can kill firefox OS in the market
I don't see why.
Sailfish is the development of the once planned replacement for Symbian.
Firefox is obviously targeted as an S40 replacement
I really don't think their prospective customers will have much overlap.
However, it is quite possible the same phones could be available with either OS (or Android or Ubuntu.)
I shall follow this with interest. I would quite like a large phone with a good, non USA sourced OS.
I think a Samsung running a derivative of of Nokia's canned OS would be a suitably ironic replacement for my N8.
Re: Half measures
Er surely they ARE on their own if they don't switch. The question is whether they take the paid for option or the free one.
Re: Who "finessed" who?
> Could those fiendish Finns have wanted to offload their mobe arm?
I seriously doubt that was the plan prior to the burning platforms fiasco. (Hasn't their share value lost 85% or something since Elop's been in charge, I recall the burning platforms knocking a huge amount off,)
However once they had wrecked their smartphone market, they effectively became a dutch auction. (Though a dutch oven might be more appropriate), this tactic could well have been to force Microsoft to make a move, before the price dropped even further.
Nokia pulling the plugs on Windows phone would have killed the platform.
Re: Nokia becoming more like M$oft alredy
> Nokia will soon lose symbian
Are they still producing Symbian phones?
I thought they were completely Windows and S40. (I notice the latest S40s have features like SIP clients and Maps that previously were only in Symbian devices)
> holding on to Symbian for too long
Letting it stagnate too long, yes. Taking to long to make the UI nice, yes.
> bottling it with Meego
> failing to jump on the Android band wagon
Once they gave up their own systems, they were doomed.
Even if it is stored locally, by default,
it is hardly likely to be stored in a module that is inaccessible to the main system, and it is similarly hardly likely that the reader is inaccessible to the main system.
So when Apple receive a secret order to provide access to an iPhone, does anyone really think that the finger prints won't be provided along with all the other data they are obliged to provide?
Almost as obvious as the XBox 180's camera
and most of the energy is used on forward momentum.
Overcoming friction surely?
it will probably be an expensive boutique operation.
Traveling time would go up by a factor of 5, I guess. But space would not be an issue. You'd be able to walk around or sleep. England to Europe would be fine.
Fuel efficiency would be in its favor. If the top surface were solar cells, you could have a daylight only ship with minimal fuel costs.
The question is whether the cost of the ships will be low enough to make travel cheaper. (Crew costs will go up by most of the factor of 5) How long will they last compared to a jet? What are the maintenance costs?
Re: Scary and unbelievable
They weren't ahead of the curve in 2002, they were years behind. Newton, Palm Pilot, etc.
Wasn't there some sort of EU project in the 90s which resulted in various designs that never happened like the Acorn Newspad?
I always assumed that MS just took several years longer than everyone else and decided to try and sell it anyway.
Re: Apple and Nokia...
Note: Series 40 isn't Symbian.
Interesting that they had to hack iPhones, rather than just asking for spyware to be pushed to the device. Perhaps Jobs resisted playing this.
Does anyone believe Google Play or any of the app stores do not have the ability to push out whatever they want? (or are obliged to by the patriot act etc.)
This would make Symbian the safest platform with respect to the NSA, because the servers would not be subject to US law.
If this is correct logic, then it would have been a huge stroke of luck for the NSA that Microsoft paid Nokia a large sum of money to commit commercial suicide and scrap their own smart phone systems. (And of course S40 will now be owned by Microsoft, too)
which are expected to ship in the fall.
I misread that as "which are expected to ship in the fail."
Re: maybe not yet, but WP9 might get closer.
But precedent implies you will be certain to need a new handset to run it. (And it won't run the same software, though tied into only loading from a market, that may be much less relevant)
- It's true, the START MENU is coming BACK to Windows 8, hiss sources
- Pic NASA Mars tank Curiosity rolls on old WET PATCH, sighs, sniffs for life signs
- How UK air traffic control system was caught asleep on the job
- Google embiggens its fat vid pipe Chromecast with TEN new supported apps
- Microsoft: Don't listen to 4chan ... especially the bit about bricking Xbox Ones