482 posts • joined Tuesday 17th July 2007 09:39 GMT
better than ... Windows 3.1 or even 95... well short of Windows 98. ME, XP, NT, 7,8,9
Better that 3.1 I'll give you. But since Windows 3.1 was a better user experience than windows 8, and 9 doesn't exist yet, I'll take issue with this statement.
95 was a better experience than ME and 98 too.
I have an MK808, and it's certainly much more pleasant to use than Windows 8, (and Windows CE) a little better than 3.x, but a decent Windows 9x - 7 device is nicer to use. But it cost £30 is silent, tiny and takes far less power.
Nokia's Symbian phone sales were being eroded by the (then rising) Android phones
They had been eroded by producing some unreliable flagship phones.
The N8 is a brilliant phone and was very popular. Far more so than any Lumia. Maybe even than all of them together.
Had they upgraded the processor and carried on improving the OS, they wouldn't have lost the huge chunk of market that happened on the move to WInPho
the Belle OS puts me off making such an investment
But the plug was already pulled on Symbian at that point.
I will invest in a mid-range lumia!
Because you really do want to buy a phone from a company with a history of dropping operating systems like hot potatoes, which has a an operating system from a company with past form for dropping operating system and replacing them with incompatible systems.
resuscitation by equipment that uses Microsoft software?
That is a scary thought.
Do they still have the clause about not using it is safety critical situations in the EULA?
Re: Nokia was right
Less wrong than moving to Android, probably.
Less wrong than continuing to clean up Symbian, no.
Less wrong than continuing to transition to Meego, also no.
> No money to be made with Android if you are not Samsung.
Ask Microsoft that one. I think you need the word "Hardware" added.
Re: Samsung took over the Nokia market
The point you have failed to mention is that Microsoft takes royalties on all these new Android sales, which they wouldn't have (as I understand it) if Nokia had maintained Symbian's share of the market. So it's still a win for them.
I fail to see how Nokia didn't see that Win Pho was competing for those customers who would consider iPhones. (Those who accept a smoother system, but are prepared to put up with lockdown.) Those who like Symbian would naturally choose Android as a replacement. Every N8 I know that has been replaced, has been replaced with an S3. (A small sample, admittedly) The reaction from the one serious Nokia smartphone user I know to the change to WinPho, was "F*** Nokia", and then she bought an N9 which she said was excellent, until it went wrong, so she got a Samsung.
Of course the ultimate irony would be if Samsung develop Tizen and it takes over this market.
(Since it is a Linux core, it should be easy for them to produce phones with the choice of Android, Tizen, Firefox or Ubuntu.)
I only know one person using windows 8
But then I can't think of anyone else who has bought a new computer recently, that hasn't been a Mac.
Name 3 things that make it unusable, a travestry
Why do you need 3 things?
The user interface alone is a show stopper.
Apart from the lack of DVD replay, there was nothing to indicate the rest of the system isn't fine, as it is reputed to be.
Were Microsoft to put the windows shell (like win 2k, i.e nice and lean) on it and make it place nicely with existing XP domains (just like Windows 7 doesn't), it would be flying off the shelves, as opposed to providing a big boost to alternative systems.
Re: 95% of commentards haven't even used Windows 8
I tried, it installed fine. However the user interface is the worst desktop GUI, I have seen on any system I can think of, on a non touch screen device. (Including Windows 2 - 7, Gem, RISC OS, various Linuxes, OS/2, Android 86, mac 6 - X, Symbian, BB OS 4-6.)
This was a big disappointment, because I had planned to take up the cheap upgrade offer, but it was so bad I am going to move my PC over to Linux by the time support ends (undecided between Debian, Ubuntu-Mint and Debian-Mint), with an XP VM to run the odd bits of legacy software.
> 2) You introduced DOCX as the default save in Word so we had to buy a new copy of Office (not just Word as you used to be able to buy) or be cut off from other users
They have just done similar with Skype. the latest version won't do video chat with earlier versions (such as the latest version for PowerPC)
They still have a version that works.
Too many abandoned non intel platforms from Microsoft.
Microsoft have abandoned many non Intel platforms. And by abandoned I mean leaving the software unable to be run on a new system and the hardware unable to be upgraded. (whereas other systems usually have a progression where the same software can be used on different versions of a system, and often the devices can be upgraded to the new OS.)
This suggestion would add Windows RT to the list.
Who would risk this again and buy a new Microsoft tablet system?
And I think the reason MS don't mind being in 4th place is because they are competing with iOS rather than Android. (Locked down to an app store.) They have taken down Symbian, and given most of its market share to Android.
They earn money from Android.
they really need to get something corporates want out of the door before XP expires.
Windows 8 would never ever be taken up.
Windows 7, well it's dated and cheesy isn't it? Why would corporates who are still on XP migrate from something that is old to something else that is old? It's not like migrating from 2000 to XP, where everything was pretty easy.
And what is the benefit? (apart from a little longer support.)
The improved windows 8 core, with a familiar shell (hopefully a lean one.) especially if it integrates well with existing XP infrastructure would be a likely seller.
Otherwise, I suspect many corporates will just stick to XP, and rely on controlled internet access and security software.
Re: Alternating Succuess
Win 95 was good, providing you did a fresh install, not an upgrade and stuck rigidly to 32 bit programs (and DOS programs). Any win 16 stuff messed it up, badly. (And avoiding early pentium machines was also needed.)
You missed out Windows 2000 which was good.
XP was the most hideous pile of crap for the first few years (as were windows 3.x and 98) After lots of fixes they became usable, then reliable. (You could argue that the same happened to vista, but the renamed it and sold it again.)
It was a pig to install.
I installed it on an old toughbook, that had previously been running an older debian happily.
It refused to connect to my wifi. (The old version and everything else I try are fine.) It did recognize an old usb-ethernet adapter that I bought a couple of years ago and had never had any success with, however, so I used that.
The grub install failed, so I repeated the install and let it do the partitioning, rather than re-use the old layout. I told grub to install on the first partition, (hoping it would leave the bootmanager I need for CD boot, it didn't.)
However it now boots successfully, and I found that disabling dual wpa/wpa2 support in favour of wpa2 only allowed it to connect.
The media player dies in a heap. (Perhaps it needs a P3?), but apart from that it looks like it runs OK.
I burnt a CDROM successfully.
Given the hardware, it works quite well.
Too expensive, but otherwise interesting.
It should be about £30 over the price of an otherwise similar monitor.
I think it should have the following features.
good range of terminal/thin client apps pre-installed
the ability to run as a second screen for a PC or Mac
ability to boot from external media
a simple method of disabling features and managing upgrades in a corporate environment
It would also be important that system stayed compatible across the range and trough the years.
there are no other reasons why WP isnt as popular as the other devices?
The obvious other reasons are
1. Locked down to an App store
2. Microsoft's record on dropping phone systems.
3. Bad reputation of windows on PCs
don't get this actual 'anger' that people express towards other platforms
For me and No-Win it is because they pulled the plug on the platform I liked.
I hope the Lumias flop badly. Don't give a damn about the other Win Phones.
Why was windows RT included with windows 8 x86?
It's not like they run the same software.
When a company has incompatible platforms why should they be grouped together in system statistics?
Linux, .... having superior kernel and memory management
I had assumed that windows must have a pretty good kernel, given the fact that it runs at all with all the crap that sit above it.
telling people on an IT web site that moving between Windows XP and Linux
Linux mint is more like XP from the user POV than Vista is.
Windows 8 is nothing like XP.
So of course it is.
In western Europe, Nokia smartphones were already rare
Total crap. N8s were everywhere. They are still reasonably common. (Though anyone I know who has upgraded from one, has moved to an S3)
All Nokia needed to do was smooth the rough edges on the OS.
(when was the last time you saw anyone with one??)
I'm pretty sure I've seen a few. But far less than N8s. (even though they've not been sold new for a couple of years). And I see far far more BlackBerrys than WinPhones, far far more that the quoted figures suggest.
Don't you run noscripts?
Sad thing is
this is probably the most likely way of funding such a mission I've heard.
it seems to me that Microsoft probably has a couple of solid patents that a manufacturer would find inconvenient to work around. (Quite possibly to do with connectivity to windows, as has been pointed out.)
It also appear that may have a load of shaky patents that would be likely to fail in court.
So I think it likely that they would have licensed the portfolio for what the value of the solid patents.
It would be interesting to know what royalties Microsoft receive from the former Symbian share of the market. It appears that something like 10% of the smartphone market moved to Android when Symbian was executed. (And that is ignoring what might have happened had Nokia continued to clean up Symbian so the N8 became as smooth as an iPhone.)
If 100 million phones were Android and paying a $10 royalty as opposed to Symbian, then the price on Symbian's head is covered. From a quick scan of the figures this looks like it will only take a few years.
It would be nice if the 'offending' features were able to be removed from android and then sold as a separate app. (If it is just connectivity with windows then a connectivity pack could be sold, which would be bundled with high end phones.) However, whether this would be possible is a secret.
Re: Where does this leave get_iplayer?
No that was ipdl but they plugged that hole in 2010
Windows tablets seem to be a total loser to me.
These are locked down and Microsoft have a very bad history of pulling the plugs on systems for anything other than x86/x64 processors. So when they do, there isn't even an option for enthusiasts to keep the platform viable. (Like in the desktop world the PowerPC Mac, dropped ages ago, but still, up to date Thunderbird and Firefox ports are available.)
Apple in the tablet world have a proven record of providing new OSes to existing kit and have reasonable software compatibility between OSes. Why would anyone who doesn't mind a locked down system choose RT over an iPad, unless it were very significantly cheaper?
x86 Win 8 tablets.
These seem to be a ridiculous idea, why would you want a more power hungry and heat producing device in a tablet? Plus do users want all the ongoing maintenance that goes with x86 windows, in a tablet? I think not.
Added to that the unsuitability of Windows 8 for non touchscreen devices, this means the only sensible use for Windows 8 is for Chimera devices that switch between a tablet and a laptop. However I would think the appeal of such devices is limited, because when using it for tablet functions, it will be heavier and have a poorer battery life that a simple ARM tablet. It would appear to me that an ARM tablet plus a (possibly several years old) desktop system would be a better option for many users. Especially since supplementing an existing PC with an ARM tablet is likely to cost half what replacing it with a Chimera would.
The connection is awful.
All down to the registration screen. Crashed the browsers on half the phones I tried.
I managed to make it work by installing opera mobile before a second attempt for the free trial.
I have had no success since it ended (I have EE phones.) But then I've not been bothered enough to try *really* hard. (A few seconds' connection at some stops, isn't worth fighting with their system for.)
The train always arrives before I get anywhere with registration.
Why do they not have the sense to make a simple low graphics plain HTML registration screen?
It is so bad, I won't be looking at Virgin to replace my broadband.
A shame, because the actual wifi worked nicely.
Microsoft have a very bad record on pulling the plugs on phones.
New OS and Old OS run different software. And upgrade of OS isn't possible.
A tablet for general use, plus a desktop computer (which could be 7 years old) for occasional use provides what the majority of people need, and people have woken up to this.
Z10 - Baby out with the bathwater.
The Z10 looks like a nice phone, but the reasons I have kept my Bold 9700 (despite it's horrible freezes) alongside my N8 are the keyboard and BIS. So they won't get a sale to me.
A lot of my El Reg posts have come from a PB.
A few questions.
Does it do video skype?
Can you connect a bluetooth keyboard?
Does it run android apps (or do they have to be converted by the author)?
Re: Windows XP Upgrade
> Improved performance?
Supposedly, but I'm unconvinced.
> Increases security?
Obviously, but the question was what else?
> USB 3 support?
Odd, I have USB 3 on my XP system and it works fine.
> GPT support (needed for drives larger than 2TB)?
Fair point, but if you are still on XP, the likelihood of needing local support for over 2TB isn't that great.
> The ability to have more than 4GB of RAM?
You can make use of a little more than 4GB, but the situation is the same for vista, 7 and 8.
You need a 64 bit version of the OS, and the 64 bit version of XP also supports GPT (apparently)
Dramatically improved support for large scale deployment and management?
Re: Perhaps the movies produced in 2011/12 were less shit
My immediate thought. 2012 was a particularly good year for movies. The Avengers, Dark Knight, Skyfall, and there were lots of other popular movies. There was a definite improvement in the quality of movies after mega upload closed.
(Did they chose the time to gt it closed it carefully, to produce these results?)
Has the cheap upgrade to W8 expired now?
Because it actually sounds like an interesting combination.
(But not for full price, I'll stick to XP)
the definition I would use
If it can easily run multiple applications at once, I would define it as a smart phone. If it can only single task, I would call it a feature phone.
I wouldn't call the early iPhones smart phones.
Scandinavians hate it when you point that out to them.
HTML email only?
Presumably the nature of these emails is obvious to anyone using a plain text email client (or one configured that way.)
Re: But at the same point in it's life-cycle
Yes it was a windows mobile 6 (I think) device however my point is that Windows phone is not 2 years old. It dates back years. WP7 is a new shell around WP6's core.
If you wish to think of WP7 as a new platform wrt WM6, then it is completely illogical to not do the same for WP7 wrt WP8, making it 5 months old, not 2 years.
Android doesn't really bear any comparison. The situation with BlackBerry is far more similar. (What Apple have done several times on the desktop computer market.)
I think you will find a lot do.
Especially since a lot of people have returned to the platform since RISC OS became available for the Pi.
Neither of those started on seven, you dolt.
Ah because they renamed the system Windows Phone from Windows Mobile with version seven, that resets the count.
"Microsoft is not even in the Top Three"
And they had to pay Nokia to hand over a most of their Symbian customers to Android for this not to read top four.
Nokia gifted most of their Symbian sales to Android.
Quite how they expected to retain Symbian fans, I totally fail to see, when the OS obviously targets the iOS market.
But of course don't Microsoft get a nice patent income from Android, that they didn't from Symbian?
They probably do better from that than pushing out No-Win with a partial (?) subsidy.
What if the current Android manufacturers offered a choie on Linux Phones?
Would it not be possible to offer the same handset with Android, Tizen, Ubuntu, Sailfish or Firefox? Ideally with easy reflash if you don't like the one you are using.
people who have clearly never owned a WP 7 or 8 device slagging the platform
Quite simply it's because of the way they pulled the plugs on Symbian. (It is No-Win I specifically hope will fail.)
Windows phone is a non starter for me because it is locked to an apps store (just as iOS is).
I bought the N8 for the SIP VOIP features and the GPS. I have found the camera and the media replay facilities fantastic too.
A Windows phone is in no way a replacement for a Symbian phone. It may be a replacement for an iPhone.
So I'm hoping the new BB10 is good or Tizen happens, otherwise I will be down the android path.
Baby out with the bathwater.
BIS (and the good text input) is the main reason I keep my 9700. What I would like to see the back of freezes and the need for daily reboots and the limited number of apps I can install. But if I would be losing the two things I like, what is the point?