56 posts • joined 6 Feb 2013
Simply sit tight on Windows 7 and wait and see if Windows 8 is a piece of crap. If so, then keep sitting tight with Windows 7. End of Story. Q.E.D.
"Banbury reckoned Windows 8's touchscreen-friendly Metro interface is the hardest thing for users to overcome when using the new OS."
Does anyone besides myself see that the irony in the above statement is so thick that it needs to be cut with a plasma torch?
Trash, Trash, Trash ...
Microsoft is in trash mode big time right now: Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 (with a different version number yet, actually meaning a different operating system), then "Update 1", and then Update 2, all in a period of a year, and using new terminology for what an update is, using multiple different methods for updating, and with some VERY important updates NOT being delivered by WSUS, and all in a period of a year. And soon there will be Windows 9. Three operating system versions and two major "updates" in two years means FIVE different platform variations in TWO years, and no real improvement in terms of corporate productively, in fact, productivity has regressed for any enterprise foolish enough to embrace Windows 8 on the PC. Oh, yeah, and I'm not even counting Windows RT and its variations.
This unnecessary upheaval is causing both the enterprise and software developers to be going out of their minds. Thus Microsoft is busily obliterating their two big monopolistic advantages: stability and application ubiquity. Software developers are fleeing Microsoft in droves to develop for iOS and Android instead, and the enterprise will soon be fleeing the instability of Windows as much as possible, probably to a combination of Android, iOS and Linux.
Good heavens, it's amazing to see such a megalithic monopoly self-destruct so rapidly and so completely. Heck, it took IBM almost 10 years to sink this badly before they arose from their own ashes.
Someone must be blind to think thats a Window 7 Start Menu
How is it considered "desktop friendly" when the "restored" Start Menu is nothing but a reformatted version of the universally loathed Metro UI Start Menu? Microsoft is completely insane. Their first attempt at "restoring" the start menu was just a button that took you back to the dreadful Metro UI. Now the second attempt is just a miniature version of Metro UI. I wonder who they think they are kidding? Certainly not their bread and butter enterprise and SMB customers. If anything, these pretend-restorations just continue to demonstrate the utter contempt that Microsoft has for their rapidly fleeing customers.
I have some more "next big thing" ideas for Apple to add to the iWatch accessory line:
1. The iCuffLink.
2. The iSuspenders.
3. The iWingTipBrogans.
4. The iFedoraSnapBrimHat.
5. The iBuggyWhip.
6. The iRotaryTelephone.
7. The i33RPMVinylRecord.
8. The i8TrackTape.
9. The iTieTack.
10. The iBlackAndWhiteTV.
11. The iConsoleRadio.
12. The iCassetteTape.
Seems like half the web sites are making their pages unusable with that right slide coverup the web page up so you cant' read it box. Firefox with Adblock Plus solves the problem.
Re: Not entirely retarded. No?
Not a bad idea. Certainly they're no good as boat anchors because they don't weigh enough, and welding a bunch of 'em together for anchors isn't worth the cost of the welding.
The only problem I see with using them as leg adjusters is if they are too thick for a particular leg, but then I suppose a sledge hammer could be used to flatten 'em a bit thinner if necessary in such a case.
All both of them?
Brilliant! I think.
OK, I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but I have to admit it's pretty hard to tell for sure. If this is in fact sarcasm, it's brilliant. If not, then, uh, well, cluelessness would probably be too kind.
Re: I'm a MSFT Fan But.....
"But they forced touch on everyone to guarantee that touch would be better supported. If nobody used the metro UI then nobody would write for it, leaving WinRT totally isolated."
That's true. But RT has now completely failed in less than a year, almost everyone who was tricked into buying Windows 8 on a PC has figured out how to install Classic Shell or the like to bypass Metro UI and restore the Start Menu, AND Microsoft has REALLY pissed of their enterprise and SMB customers who are the lifeblood of their revenue stream, so their "strategy" to FORCE EVERYONE in the universe to a touch-based UI hasn't exactly worked out too well for Microsoft, now has it?
But then again that's one of Microsoft's biggest problems: trying to FORCE their customers into doing what Microsoft thinks is best for Microsoft, rather than LISTENING to their customers and providing products that are good for the needs of their customers. After all, you've never heard Ballmer say, "Listen, listen, listen." or "Customers, customers, customers." have you? There's a reason for that.
Given the extremely rushed push to RTM, I have a sneaking suspicion that Window 8.1 is going to be an incredibly buggy mess and will be such a disaster as to completely finish off Windows 8 altogether, and actually destroy the Windows franchise itself, at least in the consumer arena.
The heck with 3D, I'm waiting for the 4D version. Or maybe even 5D.
"Well, not their Xbox fans obviously."
No, they did that too.
Re: More efficient this way
"They did not get it even close to right *with* customer feedback"
So, if customers give feedback to Microsoft in the woods but Microsoft isn't listening, did they make a sound?
Re: So who's left?
It's just those two.
My guess is that Dell will be out of the RT biz as soon as it can dump a bit more of its existing RT stock before it announces, "Guess what, all Dell RTs are now all orphans". That would leave just Microsoft, who is making noises about a Surface RT 2. But if they really proceed with that, they'll soon be writing down a bunch more of their RT "investment" again. Not too long afterwards, though, Microsoft will be forced to write down ALL of their RT "investment" anyway. Oh, and the fact that Microsoft would still proceed with a Surface RT 2 shows just how rotted out their management structure and decision-making capabilities really are.
As long as Metro UI can't be permanently and forever bypassed and the Start Menu restored with a single setting, Windows 8.xxxx is deader than a Dodo bird in the enterprise and SMB.
Windows 8.xxx: Like a snowball in Hades.
Windows 8.1 with Start Button, but no Start Menu? Sounds to me like: "The all new Edsel, now with a pinstripe!"
This nonsense of a "refined blend" sounds like it was lifted from a 1970's TV ad for instant coffee crystals or a "premium" motor oil. The "refined blend" of Windows 8.1 is akin to Coke "refining" New Coke by "blending" half original Coke and half New Coke and putting it in new cans and telling their customers that they were "listening" to them!
Microsoft's users can tell the difference between a kick in the teeth and actually being listened to. This "refined blend" is NOT being listened to and it is NOT going to go well at all for Microsoft.
Touch on a PC is about as useful as teats on a boar hog. Actually, less useful. Does Microsoft really expect 100 million CAD/CAM designers, accountants, and other industrial content makers to hold their arms up horizontally all day inaccurately poking smudges on their 42" monitors with their fat fingers, working at 1/100th the speed as before Windows 8 with 1000 times the physical effort, in the mean time destroying their neck and shoulder girdle for life?
Touch is an extremely low bandwidth input method with horrendous inaccuracy and extremely harmful ergonomics when compared to a keyboard and mouse. Touch might be ok for looking up the latest cat video, or tweeting, texting, or talking, but that's about it.
Bottom line? Windows 8.xxx doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hades of being adopted by the enterprise and SMB on the PC.
I don't need no stinkin search!
Gee, I know that when I'm writing code and have 100 tabs open in a dozen browser windows, plus another dozen programs open and I'm restarting programs 3 times a minutes or faster to test and debug, the first thing I wish for to improve my productivity is to have to SEARCH each time I want to start a new program. You know, instead of setting up a bunch of handy shortcuts in Quicklaunch (which still works in W8, BTW) and then access them from the task bar. Oh wait, no task bar in Metro UI. Oh wait, no easy way to minimize/maximize/close dozens of open windows or switch them back and forth to the foreground in Metro UI. Oh wait, only one "window" in Metro UI. But, hey, SEARCH has been "improved"! Yea Windows 8.1! You go, boy. Or girl. Or whatever. Metro UI 8.1: Now better than ever for watching the latest cat videos! Or finger painting. Or whatever. Because now search has been improved! Your whites come out whiter and your colors come out brighter!
Microsoft hasn't really fixed anything that matters with 8.1 (e.g., return of the Start Menu), which means 8.1 is primarily a PR stunt involving mostly deckchair rearranging on a sinking ship. The whole mess is still focused on the ridiculous, counter-productive notion of touch on the PC via the hated, execrable and useless Metro UI and the pathetic and nearly pointless Apps Store. And the worse part for Microsoft is that at the same time as totally alienating their bread and butter enterprise and SMB customers, Microsoft doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming a meaningful player in mobile computing with the garbage software they're trying to foist on the consumer public.
Oh, and as an IT consultant who works with 100s of users in dozens of businesses, I don't have a single client that would even remotely consider buying a single Windows 8 system. In fact, there is almost a visceral hatred of Windows 8 by my many of my clients.
No restored Start Menu means Microsoft is lying though their teeth about listening to their customers. The restored Start Button is yet just another way to force the user back to the execrable and hated Metro UI, meaning Microsoft has pretty much just spit in the faces of their users and has indicated that it no longer has any real interest in remaining in the business of making products its customers want. The outrage that will be engendered by such a slimy move will make the anger triggered by the original Start Menu removal look trivial.
Oh, wow. A Start button for Windows 8.1. How revolutionary. Windows 8 is now definitely saved.
Fired Loser Spews Gibberish
I believe the operative term here is "former". And the reason is Windows 8. And why would anyone care one whit what gibberish this loser is spewing?
Microsoft Death Wish: Pretend to Listen to Customer Feedback, But Really Don't
No restored Start Menu = Microsoft is lying about listening to their customers. If the restored Start Button just takes a user back to Metro, Microsoft has pretty much just spit in the face of their users and has indicated that it no longer has any real interest in remaining in business, because the outrage that will be engendered by such a move will make the anger triggered by the original Start Menu removal look trivial.
People are waiting to see if 8.1 shows Microsoft is listening or not. If not, then the current stall out in PC sales will be nothing compared to after a non-responsive 8.1 is released.
Given what's coming down the pike with 8.1 and Xbox One, Steve Ballmer seems absolutely determined to kill Microsoft.
Unbelievable. Microsoft makes an operating system and a user interface that are so bad and so hated that they are almost single-handedly killing the PC industry right now, and their brilliant fix to the problem? A bag on the side of a mouse. You can't make this stuff up folks.
No big surprise
This is a powerful indication that the Windows 8/Windows RT/Metro UI/Apps Store ecosystem has been a complete and total disaster for Microsoft, almost totally alienating PC users while simultaneously failing to move the needle one iota regarding Microsoft's "strategy" to try to become relevant in mobile computing in any fashion whatsoever.
No big surprise of course. Over a year ago tens of thousands of advanced testers told Microsoft that Metro UI was a no-go on the PC and that if they persisted with trying to shove Metro UI down peoples' throats as well as trying to cripple the desktop that Microsoft would be facing the biggest disaster in their history, as well as killing their PC OEMs in the bargain.
And so here we are. Just as predicted.
Re: It's actually quite nice
"I suspect most of the moaners don't actually use Win-8 at all."
Ah, and oldie but goodie. Let me publish the full list of MicroShill talking points to save you the effort:
1. Anyone who says they don't like Windows 8 has never used it.
2. Anyone who doesn't like Windows 8 is stupid.
3. Anyone who doesn't like Windows 8 is "afraid" of change.
4. I've upgraded my 8 year old laptop that has 1 GB ram and 80 GB HD with Windows 8 and it runs 10 times faster than with XP.
5. I bought a Windows 8/Window RT device for each and every member of my family and they ALL simply LOVE it!
6. Windows 8 is EXACTLY like Windows 7, only better!
7. Metro UI is REALLY the same as the Start Menu.
8. Poor acceptance of the Windows 8/Windows RT/Metro UI is all the fault of the "Apple Fanboi" and "Windows 8 hater" writers and blog posters. Their negative comments are what have caused the average non-technical consumer who never reads these web sites in the first place to stay away from Windows 8 in droves. If only the "press" had given Windows 8 a "fair" shake, it would have been a roaring success (even though the public doesn't read the tecnical press in the first place).
9. I'm a business consultant and ALL of my business clients have been clammering for Windows 8 and they ALL just love it when I install it and they now realize how much FUN computing can be!
10. I'm in IT and NONE of our employees have trouble learning Windows 8, and they LOVE it!
11. You must be old!
12. My 75 year old mother and my 5 year old girl are running Windows 8 with no problems.
13. You are obviously a troll!
"This whole debate is just a misunderstanding by the press."
Exactly. And Oceania has ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia.
"The arm fatigue problems in the past were due to CRT screens invariably being vertical."
So your solution for accountants and CAD/CAM designers (for example) is to lay their two vertical 42" screens down horizontally and then hunch over them all day, exchanging the neck and shoulder damage induced by vertical touchscreens for neck, shoulder AND back damage induced by horizontal touchscreens?
Re: 67 per cent of all searches in Windows 7 were to find launch programs
"The Win 7 start menu is shit. "
Indeed. I install classicshell on ALL Windows 7 systems I configure for my clients, and configure classicshell with a prebuilt configuration XML file that provides the highly efficient XP foldout menus and other nice optimizations.
Re: Telemetry Bullshit
"They calculatedly and deliberately tried to replace the traditional Windows interface with a sort of universal interface geared towards creating their own wallet garden.
And this has backfired 100%
Obviously it is easier to blame it all on Sinofsky, but he did what he was asked for."
Re: The only thing which really bothered me...
"But how many actual fans of their products who also didn't like Windows 8 have they pissed off with this?"
A WHOLE bunch! Ones that went to iOS or Android tablets, Macs, or Linux. And these folks will NEVER be coming back. Basically, Windows 8 was the final straw. Windows 8 finally caused enough pain that people said fuck up, bit the bullet, and bailed on Windows. Windows 8 has triggered the beginning of the end for the Windows franchise in the consumer market place.
Re: Blah blah blah
"Windows 8 works fine for me and I hated that damn start button"
Good for you! I'll mark you down as one vote for Windows 8. I guess the rest of us can just go piss up a rope.
You give the Microsoft "brain trust" way too much credit.
"Unless everyone at MS was very naïve and taken in by all the hype, I'm sure this must have been part of the plan all along. I suspect someone high up knew that the only way to get metro out there was to ignore all their existing customers and release windows 8 as a "dead end" while they decided on a more sustainable plan for the future."
You give the Microsoft "brain trust" way too much credit. A much simpler (and more likely) explanation is that they are isolated, arrogant, clueless and ignorant.
Dell sells all of their business class PCs with Windows 7 Pro installed by default. The Dell Latitude E5x30 and Optiplex 7010 PCs are solid. They have to be ordered online and cost more than their crappola consumer models, but will hold up better over the long haul.
Re: Instead of
And which Gates then unabashedly and admitedly stole from Apple.
You know, you've made a very good point, namely that it really doesn't make much sense to run Windows 8 on a 7.5" slab. Which would in fact leave Windows RT as the 7.5" slab OS option. However, I suppose that Microsoft believes the UI in either case would be Metro, so they might also believe that Windows 8 would confer some sort of additional advantage over the nearly dead Windows RT, even though as you point out, Windows 8 wouldn't really be usable. It's actually an interesting dilemma for Microsoft: do they fail with Windows RT on the 7.5" slab or do they fail with Windows 8 on the 7.5" slab? I'm betting on failure with Windows 8.
If the new 7.5" Surface, reputed to sell for $400.00, runs Windows RT, it's obviously DOA, since total worldwide sales of ALL RT devices in 1Q2013 was only 200,000 from ALL vendors.
If the 7.5" Surface runs Windows 8, then it will be underpowered for that price, and most likely the true cost for a functioning unit will be $500.00 with necessary "upgrades". It's very unlikely there will be a compelling reason for very many people to want to buy a tiny Windows device at this price point.
Even worse, massive advertising won't help Microsoft sell either of these things, because their previous ridiculous Surface ads and the subsequent failure of the Surfaces being advertised are still fresh in the minds of anyone who was paying attention. It's very difficult to build an ad campaign based on a previously failed product with the same name. I mean, would Ford have tried an ad campaign for the New Edsel, or Coke tried introducing New New Coke?
BTW, the most interesting part of this will be whether Microsoft DOES in fact offer an RT version, because if they DON'T, then that signals they've given up on RT.
Nonetheless, even after all of this, I predict that Microsoft's stock price will continue to perform well for at least another year, as it will take that long for the fool "investors" to realize that Microsoft is no longer capable of competing in technology growth sectors, and has become just another big company stuck in a slowly shrinking tech sector, namely enterprise and SMB PC software.
New Coke in smaller cans
"Microsoft betting on smaller Windows 8 devices"
Hey, I know what to do to fix the problem! New Coke in regular sized cans was a disaster so let's try smaller cans! Smaller cans should make people love New Coke, right?
Re: Vista Part II...?
"There will never be another Vista travesty. Even novice purchasers ask friends and family and read Amazon reviews. Back in 2007 there was still no real alternatives to Windows. Its such a different playing field now, but MS are still behaving like the old monopoly. Not allowing Win-8 to be customized (except embedded) is foolhardy. And Win8 & Office pricing is a joke. Game Over MS!"
You are correct, sir!
Microsoft's strategy of letting others innovate and develop markets and then swoop in much later with slapped-together, half-baked, copy-cat products and then using their size and marketing prowess to muscle out the original innovators doesn't work anymore.
That used to work back when there was no competition, no social media, and the world moved slower. But not anymore. The word now gets out and it gets out quickly, and product cycles are so fast people still remember the last crappy Microsoft product (e.g. Vista) that they got burned with.
Microsoft now only gets one chance to get it right, because first impressions of a product are now final impressions. No one gets a second chance anymore, especially Microsoft. And finally, each time Microsoft attempts to catch the back of a wave, another wave has already come along that they missed. Microsoft is now going to have to innovate or die, especially now that they they've abandoned the one and only market they had a lock on, namely the enterprise and SMB. And when I say "innovate", I mean developing brilliant products that people suddenly discover they just simply have to have, and which no other company makes. And I think we all know Microsoft is incapable of such true innovation.
Actually, Dell is doing the exact same thing as Lenovo; all of their biz class systems come pre-installed with Windows 7 Pro by default, systems such as their Latitude laptops and Optiplex desktops. Like Lenovo, Dell learned from the Vista fiasco and Dell too wishes to stay in business a bit longer. And the only way to do that is to sell customers what they want, well at least their enterprise customers, as Dell, like everyone else seems to be perfectly willing to throw their consumer customers under the Windows 8 bus.
Re: "Put off..."
Web sites change constantly, and constantly change for the worse usually because big corporations have big, permanent web site staffs, and these folks have to justify their continued employment somehow, so they constantly "improve" stuff that has no need for improvement.
HP and Dell are some of the worst offenders. I use these sites a lot to obtain software updates, and buy Dell products for my clients, and every time I go to buy a Dell product, I'm confronted with a completely different look and feel, so in effect, each and every time I want to buy a Dell product, I have to undergo a useless, pointless, and painful learning experience. It's infuriating, actually because it's only point is to keep Dell web site staff employed.
Re: Alternative option...
Correct. Install Classic Shell, and a half a dozen FREE high-quality programs, point all of the default Metro UI file-associations to the new programs and, Voilà!, Metro UI disappears from your life forever!
Re: Not sure I agree here..
"Microsoft needs to realize that they're not in a position where they can simply dictate the market any more. Tick people off enough and they're going to look and find alternate solutions. And then you'll have lost them as customer."
Indeed, Microsoft hasn't figured this out yet. But in less than a year, they will, as Windows 8/Windows RT/Metro UI will have completely crashed and burned by then, taking down a lot of Microsoft's "partners" with them, and permanently reducing the pool of customers for Microsoft products as they finally move to other alternatives and decide the word "Microsoft" means "Radioactive". The only question at that point is whether the board will fire Ballmer.
Re: Not sure I agree here..
"Microsoft needs to realize that they're not in a position where they can simply dictate the market any more. Tick people off enough and they're going to look and find alternate solutions. And then you'll have lost them as customer."
Indeed, Microsoft hasn't figured this out yet. But in less than a year, they will, as Windows 8/Windows RT/Metro UI will have completely crashed and burned by then, taking down a lot of Microsoft's "partners" with them as well, and permanently reducing the pool of customers for Microsoft products as they finally move to other alternatives and decide the word "Microsoft" really means "Radioactive". The only question at that point is whether the board will fire Ballmer.
Re: well hold on there pardner...
So, the best way to use the new "GUI" is to use the keyboard for command shortcuts? Like with DOS?
Re: Classic Shell?
I've used Classic Shell for years, including on Vista and Windows 7. I like it because it's so customizable and brings back XP-style foldout menus, which I find to be more productive than other menu styles. You can make your customizations and then export them for reuse in an XML file and then import that into new login ids or new systems. And it's free. Oh, and it's free. Did I mention that it's free?
Re: Dell has updated its Windows 8 tablet line
Panasonic Toughbooks built in Japan. CF-53 is nice, medium size laptop. They have many other form factors. All can be had with W7 Pro 64bit, come with 3-yr factory warranty with support and repair in the U.S.
Re: Discounting the cheap boxes
Yep. And "pine" for email.
"Sell Out": Stupid Microsoft Marketing Trick?
"It’s the latest proof that Microsoft has got its numbers completely wrong"
Or not. The "sell out" may simply be a scam. Just look at the comments of those who attempted to buy this thing on Saturday:
At best, only a couple of units were delivered to each store, and as can be seen, there are A LOT of pissed of Surface Pro customers who believe the "sell out" was simply a stupid Microsoft marketing trick.
Of course, the other possibility besides the "sell out" being a scam is monumental ineptness on a scale beyond comprehension by one of the world's largest marketing corporations. For the latter to be true, some version of the following conversation had to have taken place:
Microsoft Exec No. 1: "Gee, we just spent two billion dollars designing and manufacturing this thing and a billion dollars advertising the grand opening; how many should we ship to each store for the WORLD PREMIER GRAND OPENING?"
Microsoft Exec No. 2: "Oh, I don't know. One or two?"
Microsoft Exec No. 1: "Yeah, that sounds about right."
Naturally Microsoft is staying mum about this disastrous product release, so we'll have to decide ourselves. So, take your pick:
1. Monumental ineptness on a scale beyond comprehension by one of the world's largest marketing corporations.
2. Stupid Microsoft marketing trick.
- ASTEROID'S SHOCK DINO-KILLING SPREE just bad luck - boffins
- BEST BATTERY EVER: All lithium, all the time, plus a dash of carbon nano-stuff
- Stick a 4K in them: Super high-res TVs are DONE
- Review You didn't get the MeMO? Asus Pad 7 Android tab is ... not bad
- FTC to mobile carriers: If you could stop text scammers being jerks that'd be just great