1089 posts • joined Thursday 31st January 2013 20:55 GMT
Re: I nearly bought a Surface Pro 2 today.
Thanks for the information. Looks like another unit to take a look at. HP is an "old hand" at tablet pc but their record is a mix of "hit, miss, OMG" and this looks like a "hit" if the stylus works
Re: why compare apple and ms?
Since I work in IT for almost the last 3 decades and still don't understand the pure hatred that some fanatics have against MS. Sure they fought with hard bandages but ultimately MS won because the competitors where to stupid, to lazy or not good enough.
Re: I nearly bought a Surface Pro 2 today.
Question on the HP:
Does this unit only come with a 128GB SSD or is there a "spinning metall" HDD in there as well?
Touch only or with an inductive stylus?
LTE on board?
Re: I nearly bought a Surface Pro 2 today.
Ah, THAT is the reason:
Sony has two new units in the pipeline (Tab 11 and Flip 13/15) as well as the Duo 13 in production
Fujitsu just announced two new units (T904 and Q584)
Lenovo gives us two new versions of the Yoga and some more
Acer upgrades the R7
Samsung has a new "Ativ Tab3" out
Dell has the Venues out
They are all so pissed that MS is selling the Surface/Pro 2 tablet pc that they offer new products that fill the space above, below and level with the S/P2 by offering other CPU, other formats/sizes etc. in the convertible/tablet market. Actually we are getting MORE choice in the tablet pc segment than in years...
Re: You are comparing apples with oranges.
I would not call the Atoms or i3 slow. Compared to a i5/i7 yes. Compared to an ARM - no. Even CTrail can hold it's own against the current ARM CPUs and BayTrail has a lot more processing power.
Re: Do you fill your car up after every journey [.. ]? No? Then why do the same with your phone?
Actually at least one did shrink (Fiat Regata, used a flexible inner tank).
Re: Fanboi is as fanboi does
Just lokking at the official figures from Munich shows that LiMux is a politically motivated fail. The city is using double the permanent IT staff per workplace than comparable cities. Not contractors etc. but almost impossible to get rid of permanent! staff. Because a large part of the business critical software does not run on Linux and needs Citrix terminal server. And re-programming the stuff is extremly costly, costs that could not be hidden in personal.
Re: Dashed hopes @mmeier
At least one car I privatly owned (VW/Bombadier Typ 181 "Iltis") had a 24V battery system :)
And the starter battery in a car is NOT the main component it is actually a nice to have / pay additional luxury article. My old Käfer would work without one and could be crank-started (1)
If you want to compare it - use the engine since that, like the battery in a mobile device, is the key component. Last I looked I could not combine a Ford engine and an Opel body.
(1) A hole needed to be drilled to insert the crank "liberated" from a Kurierwagen but that worked nicely and the TÜV didn't care
Re: A tablet is a low power device
A tablet pc is a mobile device that can be used for easy note taking, drafts, presentation, text reading/editing/commenting and all other tasks where normally one would use dead trees. It can do so without a keyboard or leaving fingerprints all over the screen.
It will weight whatever it takes to do that job, use whatever OS and CPU it takes to do that job. And so far the only combinations that can do all the jobs use Intel and Windows. A proper Baytrail (4GB and mSATA) may do the job fanless but a core-i is acceptable as well
Re: re: repairs
Does not change the fact that the Sony Vaios can be opened by screws and parts can be changed. No glue etc. So yes, they are shop repairable. And yes, DELLs Latitute has user replaceably batteries. Getting spare parts may or may not be difficult once they are no longer in production. But that does not change the fact that you can open the case without destroying it
Re: Comparing iPAD Air and Surface Pro 2
Because that is the only way to service the "MS tablets to heavy / costly" crowd. Leaving out some features the S/P2 has over Apple and the S2 helps nicely as well
Re: Surface Market share =/= Microsoft Tablet marketshare
The S/P2 is a nice "middle of the road" system that shows what can be done with a modern core-i tablet pc and at what price. Ultimately it will set an upper price cap for most Baytrail Atoms (that of the 64 GB model) since it is very hard to build a Atom that is worth more (Rugged and semi-rugged units like Q584 are an exception)
Also a price check for the "mass market" guys like Samsung or Acer (similar price for compareable core-i units). Again why pay more for a cheap plastic unit so prices and models of stuff like the Ativ <Whatever> and the R7bis will likely match the S/P2 or S/P2+dock+keyboard for an Ativ700t follow-up. Again to sell for a highter price would need "something better" like more configurability etc.
If the LTE version comes out at a decend price it will also be an interesting unit in itself offering more memory than the Sony units announced and lower weight than the R7.
Will they? The battery on my EP121 is almost three years now and still gives 3.5h of performance down from about 4h when it was new. Complains about batteries aging to fast are very rare in the tablet pc forums and since endurance is one of the key questions that makes me doubt the "high proportion going bad within 24 month"
When will fanatics learn that smart people make up three list:
Nice to have
features and then buy the unit that matches all of the first, most of the others and is within their budget. No matter what OS or CPU. And if a Windows 8.x / x86 tablet pc with a core-i CPU is the best match - that's what smart people buy.
It's all about choice and S/P2 is just another option
Re: What decade is this?
Actually RECYCLING the unit is easy. As shown it can be disassembled with a resonably effort and that is all that is needed. Recycling is NOT refurbishing. It is "break it into components and get the raw materials / reuseable parts back". No need to be able to re-assemble it in the same Bangladesh sweat shop that broke it up.
Re: a mound of spare parts to use?
Why change what works? The S/P is "bad to maintain" but otherwise reported as sturdy. Size is not changed and the number of ports is ok for a tablet pc. So to continue using the "known good" shell is IMHO the right thing to do. The LTE version of the S/P2 will see a "new" shell for the additional slot needed.
Re: It isn't a huge prblem...
The one complain I have with 10-12'' units of all kinds (tablet pc, netbook, notebook, ultrabook) is that for some work a bigger screen would be nice. Since the S/P1 unlike say a Fujitsu T-Series or the Atoms has no standard dock one must use USB docks. What USB-3 dock did you use (if any) and what's your verdict?
Re: Dashed hopes
Given the track record of governments when it comes to "standard parts" we will end up with a grand total of two mobile systems
Model "Trabant" with a low powered CPU and matching Battery Typ 601
Model "Wartburg" with a mid powered CPU and a matching Battery Typ 353
Some variants like Universal (2in1), Tramp (Tablet) and maybe a Special (brighter screen) but that's it. Welcome to the Universial Socialist Computer
Re: re: repairs
Then buy Sony/Lenovo (shop replaceable parts) or DELL and Fujitsu (user replaceable parts). Where is the problem? These units cost a bit more for similar capabilities but if "replace/repair" is an important criteria that's the way to go. If OTOH you go the "replace in 2.5 to 3 years with Broadwell based unit" plan than a S/P2 is "good enough" and has it's own benefits over say a Duo13 (size, weight of base unit)
Re: Time I think
They changed the four things that made sense
CPU for a Haswell
Memory for 8GB
SSD for 256 or 512GB
Optional LTE model (announced)
Anything else and you leave this weight/size class.
It always depends on what you want/need.
A small "electronic notepad" tablet pc can easily be done fanless as the various Atom based units show. These units have equal or better performance to the best ARM with similar endurance and weight. If that is what you want, that is what you buy.
A platform capabel of showing the program to the customer AND acting as the above notepad, conference tool etc. OTOH needs more power and (in case of the CTrail Atoms) more memory/faster SSD. So there you buy a core-i based unit. Yes they have fans. Very quiet fans that can not be heard in the typical conference situation even if the unit kicks both cores to full power (T-Series convertible with M-class core-i)
Re: Still not enough @ skelband
And what IS the problem for development? After one year and some heavy Java including EJBs as well as classic frontends I still can't see a difference.
Re: Most annoying thing for me
I hope that was irony otherwise you are the dumbest troll I have seen in a decade.
NT (since NT4) access control is quite a bit more granular than that of OOB Linux. Actually mapping Windows ACL to the rather course Unix ones is a major problem and the Posix ACL implemented in Linux since the early 2000nds was based on a withdrawn standard (Posix 1003-1e, withdrawn 1997). The NEW Posix ACL proposal - is based on NTFS (RFC 3010)
Re: Right click admin options
Advice from someone who is willing to try out new things:
Update and ignore the Win8 haters and trolls
Re: Steam OS for games, Google Docs / something else for the office work
Win8 came out late 2012. By that time most IT departments had already done at least the necessary evaluation for a switch away from XP or where doing the switch. Since any corporate IT worth it's pay will do a lengthy (3-6 month) test and allow quite a bit of "in case it fails" margin (Y2K switch is still remembered) they went to Win7 and will stay there till about 2015 (three years lease) maybe even longer given that for desktop the new hardware generation has little to offer.
Some customers have a "limited" Win8 roll in for specialist maschines (Atom based tablet pc). Those run a limited set of programs and could be checked / tested on short notice. The "complete" evaluation of all rolled out variants/packages has been started by one customer recently and will be done by Q2/2014. Since he will replace PCs with Q1/2015 that is a typical timeframe (We are talking 5 digit number of boxes here)
Re: Ashamed to say
Oh? Well our customers think different and since they pay me - they are right and you are wrong!
CTrail series Atoms or more exactly the "pseudoSSD" they use are extremly slow. That is actually the bottleneck. Depending on the WLAN quality speed to get the data to the tablet pc is number two since quite a few don't go above 75MBit and have lousy quality.
The desktop has no such problems even if it uses WLAN instead of cabel. Adding an SSD speed up even more. But on a "typical" core i5 with HDD the whole process took about an hour from "download" to "all done and working" here. Network is 25MBit ADSL and the box itself uses a good quality WLAN.
Re: Darn it; I gotta re-install EVERYTHING.
Don't blame others on your lack of reading capabilities. It was well known and well published that the preview will force a complete reinstall from day one. If you failed to check - your fault!
I'll tell that one of our customers on monday. Those guys have bought 500 Latitude 10s in Q2 because the wanted a tablet pc that can run a full powered Windows. But they must be stupid after all they only made 1+ Billion after taxes last year (100+ million for the part of the company we work with)
Assuming the unit was Win8 certified UEFI or Secure Boot definitly where NOT the problems.
Linux has a use if you need a public visible server AND have little money but spare time. In that case short life spans for the free variants, problems to get certain packages to run together on the same distribution and other problems are acceptable.
Otherwise there are better servers with commercial OS that have the "one distribution only" benefit and 10+ years support cycles. They can not be used if visible to the outside (Solaris) but for internal use they are an alternative as well. If you need i.e Oracle and JBoss - Solaris is the prime choice followed (ironically) by Windows Server
Re: @Bill Gould - Minority?
The reg has (like many web sites) an above average number of Gnuliban and Fosstards. That and the need to generate click count is why there is a negative undertone to stuff some trolls<<<journalists here write and to the comments. Win8 works just fine on a classic multi monitor non touch system for software development. Been there, doing it since W8 came out.
Re: Ashamed to say
Most are not illeterates. They either
+ Simply hate change
+ Have never used (or even seen) Win8
+ Have spend a whole of 5min with it (like some elReg Trolls<<<journalists)
+ Are outright liars from Pinguland
Re: Oh the Irony
Despite the claims Mac OS/X is NOT a Berkley Unix. It is a badly abused and overweight MACH-3 "Microkernel" that uses a BSD personality to the userland side.
Nor is NT based on VMS. It inherits from OS/2, Unix, VMS and work on Micro/Hybrid Kernels.
Re: "Worthwhile upgrade to Windows 7" - Why?
Dropbox is a cloud solution with servers in the US of A. Maybe ok for privat data but not legal for some of the company stuff we do (person based data). Same problem with i.e Evernote or GoogleDocs. A company run Sharepoint and VPN access OTOH is as would be a company run Azure cloud.
And even IF Db where acceptabe it would not solve the document format problem between platforms. I.e there is no SNote outside Samsung and even the Win8 version does not fully understand the Android one. And PDF is nice for "watch" and somewhat useable for "comment" but lousy for "editing". Other formats play "two programs - three formats" and since the customer ("he who pays our bills") decrees "MS Office compatible" - we use MS Office.
Re: 8.1 Preview users must RE-INSTALL ALL PROGRAMS
It was all through the press, even iHeise and fosstard central here that the Beta would NOT be upgradable to the final version
Does the fat lil bird run
MS Office with integrated VBA?
Dragon Natural Speaking or an equivalent?
MS One Note or an equivalent? (And no Cloud-only Evernote isn't)
Support all my hardware with 100 percent capabilities?
Photoshop and my camera software
OOB without configuring WINE for hours/days?
Re: "Worthwhile upgrade to Windows 7" - Why?
For me and quite a few of our customers the answer is simple:
One OS to rule them all
My privat desktop (core-i7 / Dual Monitor), my company notebook (T-series convertible) and my privat tablet pc all run the same software, the same set of tools, the same UI. There may be "optimized" systems that work slightly better on each hardware also I have yet to see them. But with Win8 I do not have to ask "will document a show on system b" because it will. And it will do the same on Win7, Vista and XP if necessary. I won't have to remember "gesture x does z on system a but y on system b" and "option y is in menu/function etc w on system a but in k on system c".
As a company (like most) we are using Windows client and the fact that the document with all the hand made annotations and diagrams generated in Journal or OneNote during the client meeting can be viewed and edited on a desktop as well is convenient. Tablet/Convertible + Beamer has replaced whiteboards and "gather the paper / take a snapshot with the mobile phone cam". The documents can simply be send (or stored in sharepoint) and distributed / edited / transformed to computer readable text etc.
Re: Metro will never die!
Never understood why people flock to Metro. They are not cheap, customer service is lousy. Buy at Amazon or the next local shop
Re: Great stylus, even better sound
The best part of the SPen is - you can replace it with something else!
The case I use for the N7010 has a small elastic loop that easily holds a full sized WACOM pen. Given the size of the Note the pen is slightly shorter so it makes little difference in portability but a HUGE difference in useability due to it's size being close to a "normal" BIG pen instead of a toothpick
Re: So long M$
I agree on Metro. Lousy, very lousy. We should definitly break up the monopolist! Can't have one company own the two big electronics outlets in Germany and Austria!
Re: Question On Surface Pro 2
It is a core i5-ULV Ultrabook with 4 or 8GB main memory and 64-256GB SSD. If that hardware can run your games/programs - so can an S/P(2). I don't run much games on a tablet pc but stuff like Photoshop or Netbeans IDE (for smaller works due to 4GB limit) run fine on a 1st gen i5/ULV with 4GB and the S/P2 has more CPU/GPU power and can have more memory
Re: Why have PCs failed to have useful hardware improvements over the past 3 years?
If by "improvements" you refer to new hardware or new hardware entering the main stream / affordable to Joe Average - there has been a lot. Like SSD that only became a "typical" component in mobile systems below 1000€ post 2011 and in desktops post 2012.
If by "improvements" you refer to "enough to force me to buy a new system" then the answer is simple:
The technology has matured to a point where improvements are no longer cost-efficient
Same with cars. Small/mid sized cars (< 15000€ new) from as early as 2005 have anti lock breaks, electronic stabilisers and enough airbags to turn you into a "canneloni" in case of an accident. There is nothing new that is cheap enough to add AND useful enough to have. So advances happen only in the "luxury" element(1). So cars only get replaces if worn out and new tech slowly trickles down when it gets cheaper like the interaged hands free system that start showing up in the below 20k segment
Same with computers. New stuff gets added in mobile systems (Better onboard GPU, less power consumption, SSD, LTE) since there the customer sees a benefit AND prices (and margins) are higher. Business notebooks are aimed at the higher payed employees (engineers and PHBs) with a budget for an extra 100€. And that is where a lot has happened recently. And where changeover still happens with Haswell/Baytrail or the trend to "SSD only" systems. Since those offer enough benefits over the 3 year old sandy/HDD system (Endurance, speed, ruggedness)
(1) Stuff like HUD, integrated navigation/screen etc. are nice - but 99 out of 100 drivers won't pay extra for it. Less so in the "Golf and below" mass market segment. In the "50000€+" segment those get added since "an extra grant's not a problem and it might be a nice toy"
Re: Anti Virus
Why does one use an external AV software on Win8? The on-board solution is good enough for all normal users. Granted, if your bookmarks are full of dubious sites like www.fsf.org you might need better support but otherwise 3rd party AV solutions are useless.
So unless it is "must be there" from the company IT- ditch it. OTOH company IT will likely be 6-12 weeks from Win8.1, quite likely more so no problem there. If they are not - fire (on) them
Re: Still not enough
At least the Mail App in Modern does show a "new mail" reminder on the desktop, same for the Message App. Since those are the only LiveTiles I use on my privat box I can't say about others.
And if I use a full sized (Application) mail/message tool like Outlook or Notes than nothing has changed anyway.
Re: RT is pointless, WP is the way to go
The Androids started low (phones) and had a head start since long running Windows tablet pc below 1000€ are a relatively recent (2012 with the Atoms from Samsung and Asus, before that the price was high and the manufacturer IBM/Lenovo and Fujitsu) addition to the market.
RT as a MS product, no matter what name will, due to the shared look, always be compared to those units. And it will come up short since the full powered Win8/x86 with the choice of platforms and capabilities will beat it. In case of the Atom units with an endurance and price that is "close enough" to what you'll pay for a Nokia product.
RT smells of a "Panzer VI": A backup project with "trustet" technology (ARM for low powered platform) that was NOT cancelled when the prime project that needed new tech (Low power x86) was shown to be viable. And now the backup drains resources and keeps the prime hobbled.
Re: Maybe it's my trousers?
While it fits in my throuser or shirt pockets it does not fit securely. Combined with the too smooth plastic of the shell I simply do not trust it NOT to slip out
Re: WinRT a platform too far?
3. Ditch Win/RT AND the ARM tablets and go Win8 and Atom
Similar weight/size/endurance and a very mature and powerful OS for everything from touchy-toy tablets to mobile workstations and past that to the desktop. Keep WP8 and add some minor features (Wacom support)
Re: Still not getting RT
Unless the competition is a Baytrail tablet pc running Win8. And THAT is the main competition to RT.Similar weight/size/endurance but a lot more options and possibilities. That is IMHO the problem of Win/RT. They are sturdy, useful systems with a good chance of updates/patches past the 9-12 month time of a Samsung Android. But they will always be compared to the Atom based Win8/x86 units and the price difference between the two is small enough that "runs the same software as your home pc" of the Atom wins over the "costs 50€ less" or the RT.
Re: Samsung have shot themselves in the foot with SIM region locking, eFuses and warranty policy
Any pencil sounds like resistive digitizer or a follow uo. The stuff found on the pre touch Windows Mobile systems or the N770 and follow ups. They worked but suffered a lot more wear and tear than the inductive units. On the Nokia N series that was one of the problems with elder units they lost digitizer functionality on some parts of the scree (That killed my N770 i.e)