Re: This would be an Assange view of the law.....

What if there is a bit more in it? Normally I agree the basic offence is "slap on the wrist and then Lars and Olav throw him across the next border". BUT! if he has/had a nice STD then the not-use of a condom gets problematic. And given that a lot deals with "didn't use one" and he has refused a blood test...

Re: And folks it's happened

Damn you found out.

Greetings,

Steve B

Re: My thoughts...

Aside from numerous small improvements that might or might not be useful from faster start up (Yes, I DO switch of the desktop when I do not use it - uptime is for server) to better WLAN integration to...

And as soon as you use convertibles/2in1 or tablet pc and desktop units Win8 becomes even more interesting. It may not be best desktop OS nor the best tablet os but it is damned good at both jobs and if you need certain features (Handwriting and data formats readable on 92+ percent of the desktops, Sharpoint etc) it is THE best in both.

And 2in1 with pen support are interesting for quite a few jobs. I.e local real estate agent when getting new "pc" this year went for Atoms with a dock. In office they use a 20+ inch and keyboard, on customer dates just the tablet.

Re: It's not that hard to see the problem

Quite a few companies lease the boxes so they got "fresh" hardware in 2011/2012 and Win7 with it. Other hardware was getting long in the tooth or costly to upgrade anyway since companies skipped a cycle that is often three years (many skipped Vista)

Re: It's not that hard to see the problem

Most organisations have done the switch in 2012. And at that time any smart IT went with Win7 since two month is not enough to test all applications on a new OS. Most XP still out there are "borrowed the OS on eMule" or "lab-equipment, no internet anyway" these days with the "dads christmas present 2013" deferred replacements thrown in. Any IT that considered a switch to Win8 earlier than April should be taken out and shot. takes a 4-6 month test period on the average.

Re: Makers may need that...

Win8 != Win/RT. Two different breeds. Win8 ONLY runs on x86 and REQUIRES SecBoot off.

And Win8 IS classic desktop and tablet not toybreed touchies

Re: Undocumented feature?

Magnet in the cover? The inductive digitizer reacts to that

Re: "Without anything to copy..."

In the last 100+ years? What?

Re: Makers may need that...

Strange but the "Win8" sticker requires that SecureBoot can be switched off by the end user. So no problem there ASSUMING the user wants to install another OS. Given the 1.x percent market share the other option has in the pre-Secure Boot times - most don't

UEFI is not the same as Secure Boot even if they are mashed together a lot. Works without SB quite nicely. Bad implementations by the OEMs are the OEMs fault, not MS

As for the rest - you can install what you want on Win8, even GPL stuff if you want to taint a proper CSS system with that FossTard stuff.

Re: XP to Win 8 upgrade don't make sense for a lot of people

Units still running XP are likely 6+ years old and due for a replacement. And currently many OEM offer a downgrade option for those who demand their OS still looks "like Grandpa Xerox did it".

Re: My solution - elephant in the room is Windows.

The masses are not "buying Mac". Apple has a desktop share in the single digit range and stays there. Tablets with iOS/Android sell somewhat because they are "different" from the classic PC/notebook and seem to offer something those units (no matter what OS) can not like mobility.

The masses will not buy an OS where most of the software they have does not run / not run properly. Just because the Steam DRM tool exists does not mean that the games exist! And people care for the games, not the delivery platform.

As Win8 shows people are even reluctant to switch the UI. A totally new and at least partially not compatible OS? No way.

Re: My thoughts...

Not only does W8 work beautiful without touch - it also needs a lot less mouse. So you can keep the hands on the keyboard a lot more.

Re: It's not that hard to see the problem

Classic example here:

Will buy at least on new Win8 tablet pc in late 2013/early 2014 when the Baytrail platform is out and prices have stabilized. Until then the old desktop and tablet pc will do. Why buy a C-Trail when the far more powerful/useful follow up is announced

Will buy a new unit for my parents in the same time frame. Again, wait for Haswell to hit the streets and then buy a non-Haswell notebook that drops in price on the "way out". Alternate is buy a Haswell tablet pc with dock for me and dad gets the core-i "sandy" tower I use now.

And since, despite repeated lies from certain sources, Win8 does not need touch or stylus the (actually non existing) lack of "touch devices" is no problem either.

Re: Flip-flop

Without anything to copy the Chinese will not get any further than "cheap copy of Sojus/Apollo/Shuttle" made from "aquired plans" either

Re: Stylus, gimmick?

The non-linearity towards the edges is a Wacom problem. Mostly (not totally) solveable with calibrating the screen. Something the Note could not do in 2012, hope they fixed it.

Android 4.1 seems to be able to do that since early 2013. Dropped the N10.1 in December so missed that.

Re: Note 10.1

I could do without cameras on tablets and phones. Video calls are best left to SF and security officer Jaglowsk forgetting to close the robe...

UMTS or LTE look more interesting the longer I use tethering. GPS x a nice to have for smaller ( up to say ten inch) units that double as navigation systems

Used the Note 10.1 for about four month. Had quite a bit of problems with the Software like lack of stability in SNote and most programs not supporting more than one open document at a time. Lack of printer support and notepad file formats that do not work with Windows as well as a lot of other "not as good as Win 7 or Win 8" moments. Back to tablets with Windows.

Note is cheap and runs longer than a core i based unit but even the Ativ 500 is more powerful and gets a workday endurance. And the software is build in (journal) or for free (Foxit, ArtRage2) as well. And some stuff does not even exist for Android like offline speech recognition (build in btw)

Re: Once again.....

Fa Plaste und Elaste aka Samsung has a Wacom Win8 out in the target price range (Ativ 500, the non UMTS base model) and the Lenovo and Dell Atom based units are around the 600 pound mark as well

With good software (something the Note-Series is lacking) a tablet pc is a lot more useful than pen/sketchpad. It can do everything paper can plus:

+ Transform a document into text

+ Index / Search in it

+ Send it to co-workers even those with a desktop

+ Annotate/edit documents and send back to "all" without the need to print

+ Send the stuff to the beamer / wall mounted display (Sometimes even wireless)

It also is a document reader and with the proper OS a full scale netbook / notebook if needed. And unlike a notebook it can be used while standing/walking and in very limited space.

Add a dock and it becomes a complete PC for all uses except high end gaming and some software development

Re: Remember windows tabs?

WinCE != Win/x86

The majority of Windows/x86 tablets used a inductive digitizer for pen support. That only works with the matching stylus. The Asus MT-Series was one (IIRC the only one) that used resistive screens. Those have a number of problems for tablet use, among others that they can not be protected by something like "Gorilla Glass" and suffer wear on the digitizer

Re: USB... 2?

HWR is slower than typing on a good keyboard. But try that while standing around or balancing a notebook on your knees and suddenly the pen is mightier than the key.

Speach is nice and there is some very good Windows software for it from the Build in all the Way to Dragon Natural. But speach is "loud" and babbling to your computer while in a meeting / seminar is not the way to take notes.

Re: without releasing any data that could harm someone.

Even if you can not read the traffic you can still see patterns in it. And that alone can be enough to get out a warning. I.e the RAF learned the hard way NOT to test the radios before a night trip to germany (or at least not ONLY before such a trip) since that was a nice invitation to the nightfighters. Grandpa loved the sight of burning Lancasters

Because the system neatly hides those differences. Yes, the new versions have added abilities - but the old API is still there and still works. Yes, servers have special skills - but no person with a three digit IQ one uses a server as a client and vice versa.

Sure the better versions have added capabilities - but they are mostly irrelevant to end user software since the system hides them well. Properly written software does not care if the HDD is encrypted, the box gets authentification from an ActiveDirectory instead of locally etc. Speach recognition is a nice to have for some jobs but the way it is implemented is transparent, not part of the end user software. No need to program against a special API

Screen size does not matter much. The vast majority of Windows units has at least 1024x768 for decades and that is the "initial size" for many programs. One of the reasons the little 1024x600 cripples aka Netbooks died. And using a bigger screen has not been a problem for Windows for at least a decade

The main difference between Win XP (the lowest NT-line platform sensible to support) and Android 2.3 is that XP already was a stable mature OS with user accounts, proper access control and a capabel graphics subsystem and UI libraries that can use all the stuff a modern box offers(1). Stuff that has not changed much (if at all) for a user program since than. Windows has done changes in other areas post XP.

Android 2.3 OTOH lacked a lot of those / the latter versions added tons of features (like "proper" tablet support). So choosing 2.3 as a baseline either forces you to use additional libraries/tools/workarounds - or to not use quite a few features.

The only stuff that needs to know the exact version and variant is admin level stuff. And the MS internal one "knows" while external software is rarely used by the average end user

(1) Pens need a add-on package aka tablet edition but even that is compatible to Vista and above

Re: Robinson

As soon as it has stamped "NFD - Nur für Dienstgebrauch" (For internal/service use only) on the page and you give it to someone NOT in the service - it is treason. Maybe a minor case but still.

Re: It has yet to be proven...

Maybe you are right these days. Still it IS additional effort and / or libraries. It WAS a major problem with libraries a good year ago when I was last forced to program for it at the job (never would do that in privat)

Thankfully company dropped the Android platform for Win8/x86 where tablet pc are concerned and dropped phone support completely. Me, I dropped the last Android device (Note smartie) in the (e)bay recently. Featurephone and a spanking new TPT2 do the job a lot better

Re: Hong Kong

In that case - European Union and simply get lost in the 300+ million people. Most EU countries have no registration laws and the borders are wide open. And some are a tad "unorganized" as well

OTOH it is far away from the potential buyers of any stolen state secrets since the KGB<<<RSF is no longer that active.

Re: It has yet to be proven...

Let's say I support only the "two big ones" (most used 2.x and 4.x). Assume I want to use some of the better 4.x UI features like Fragments I have to support two software trees since 2.x needs add-on libraries for that. Google overhauled the UI and added some of the Android 3 (tablet only) tree. The also reworked the guidelines

And that assumes I do not have to support multi-user (4.2, quite rare still)

And WebApps are a so-so solution. Either need extra libraries like PhoneGap or they can not access the phone functions. Not sure if PG can work with special features like the Note series provides. And the LookAndFeel is not Android/iOS/WP8 but "something foreign"

Re: Sorry mmeier, each class of physical UI requires a different GUI.

Nope. I design UIs and strangely - the customers like them. Do so for the last 15 years so maybe I DO it right

Re: Sorry mmeier, each class of physical UI requires a different GUI.

OSK on a desktop - unneeded and not shown in WIn8. The OSK is "on demand" in Windows and has been so even in Win7. The system is smart enough to know what elements to display and what are not needed. Works even with tablet hardware as soon as a BT keyboard is detected.

As for Office: 2007 and 2010 and 2013. For me the way they behaved was very consistent maybe that I never considered SDI/MDI a huge enough difference.

Re: So far

User serviceable costs extra. Basically DELL (Latitude 10) or Fujitsu (Q702, T-Series) and maybe the Lenovo X-Series convertibles

Re: So far

Looked at the new Sony Duo13? Only problem is "lack of user serviceable parts" otherwise the i7/8GB unit looks great and the endurance is "workday without charger". All for 1000g. Wonder if they offer a sheet batterie like the older Duo11 has. That would get 14+h for <1500g.

Re: purchase deferred till 2015

Lenovo Helix is exactly that, can be used as tablet, notebook or enhanced tablet (with the keyboard attached "convertible style") with batteries in keyboard and tablet unit. Not a Haswell (yet) but that CPU should be out before Q4.

The Sony Vaio Duo (the new 13 even more than the older 11) comes close (convertible but light)

The Q702 and Q572 might also be playing in that field and the Ativ 500/700 series are also there.

Win8 notebooks do not need a touchscreen. Nor do they (or desktops) benefit from that unless you are in a graphic design "heavy" enviromnent - and in that case you buy Cintiq monitors and a workstation (or maybe a T-Series / X-Series convertible)

Try your luck with a Fujitsu T730/T731 or the 900 series siblings. Older units in 12 and 13.3 inch so the base hardware should have support. And Wacom digitizer (unlike the T580) so IF the touch/pen (pen only in the 730 IIRC) is supported then there.

Worst case you end up with a very powerful and long-endurance notebook with fully user-serviceable / upgradable hardware and a still good support from the manufacturer

Re: A non working keyboard at boot...

Depends on

+ Mode of use (Pen or Finger)

+ OS used on other systems

If you do not care about touch as some of our customers do than Win7 works almost as well as Win8 (HWR in 8 is better but 7 ist still second best with a huge lead). So if all other units are Win7 - why not.

Now the interesting question is:

Does the P3 have a inductive stylus (some reviews say yes)? With one - interesting. Without - another useless toy like all iThingys, most Androids and all current Acer tablets so far

Re: The WHINING of the WINTARDS

They did not throw away Windows - they changed the start menu and call it Modern. That's it.

Win8 works beautiful on a tablet and with a small dock - that tablet becomes a fully capabel PC (either core-i or Atom based). One device for both or (since a 10'' Atom easily replaces a smartphone as well) all three devices.

As for smart TV: Once you add all the stuff needed to make them useable - you are looking at a 42'' AIO PC.

Re: What would really make a huge difference is fixing the license

There are a lot of free licences on the market. GPL is for many purposes the least free of them. The number of non OpenSource Software used in our company is very limited, basically MS-Office and the big databases. And while the databases are not OSS they can be used without charge for development.

So - no budget bloat there

Re: What would really make a huge difference is fixing the license

KISS - Keep it simple

For the software we write there is not benefit from a community (limited market, strong competitor, needs high amount of non-IT technical knowledge, customers have no developers) for us or for our customers (who commission special modules that add to the common framework),

At the same time making their internal "knowledge" (for better words) public is something the customers do not want. So they rule out GPL for it's potential viral character. And just to make it simple they say GPL/LGPL so there is no discussion needed.

We in turn adopt this even for those customers who do not have that clause. Again "just to be sure". And extend this to the tool chain because it is simple and we do not benefit from GPL based tools since the Java stuff used here is Eclipse or Apache based mostly (some is Sun/Oracle) and we do not use Linux (Solaris and AIX - like our customers)

And Eclipse/Netbeans/Glassfish are just as free (and for development so is Oracle RDBMS and DB/2)

Re: absolute fail

Currently you have nine APPLICATIONS running on your system. And if you switch to Win8 - you can still have nine APPLICATIONS there. The (current) limit is on Modern apps only not on classic programs. But I guess you know that already, has been said couple of times.

Touch on a normal notebook or desktop is useless. But nobody is forced to use it or buy this stuff. But that you already know as well, don't you?

So shove your stupid little lies where the sun does not shine and go bonk a penguin

Re: What would really make a huge difference is fixing the license

Have yet to see an interesting tool or library that was not either dual licence or using Apache/Mozilla/BSD/... really free licences

Re: The WHINING of the WINTARDS

No Linux with build in WACOM or NTrig pen support and Handwriting recognition. Same for the journaling software

Android has but that is not part of the OpenSource so no backport from Note or TPT1 to Linux. Same for the journaling software

And buying a 1000+ € tablet pc and not be able to use the main component - useless

Re: Ah memories...

Yep, the SS was after the GURPS Steve not the Warhammer Steve

Re: What would really make a huge difference is fixing the license

My employer and quite a few of our customers have a strict "No GPL/LGPL" policy, Dual licenced is okay but pure is not

Re: The WHINING of the WINTARDS

So the short version is

NO

Re: The WHINING of the WINTARDS

OpenSuse != Android

So the Answer is: No / not without massiv modifications to Android

Re: Amnesia?

Only for Modern and only if you publish them through the market.

Re: Where's mmeier?

Nope. I only care about WINDOWS penables :)

Actually this sounds like "sausage in condom" inductive crap to me, not a proper inductive digitizer

Re: Eraser Tips

Works with a second market stylus just as well. WACOM sells them at 60€ for the more basic models (PL900).. Just make sure it is for tablet pc, the pens for graphic tablets or the Wacom monitors do not work