47 posts • joined Wednesday 26th September 2012 18:57 GMT
who paid for the report?
Should do some background checks and see WHO PAID FOR THE REPORT. Hint: Cross reference the published reports with the client list.
It used to be Microsoft that always got into trouble for "sponsoring" independent reports. The Reg has always called them out previously. Looks like you got caught hook, line and sinker on this one.
"No other platform has any apps like these," Cook said.
This statement is patently untrue. All other platforms have productivity apps, video streaming, photos, radio and cloud synchronization. This is just imitation, as is the "flat " UI, and still no NFC. The camera doesn't compete with the top Samsungs & Nokias. Nothing exciting about this release at all. No wonder the markets don't like it.
Apple has been here before. What will be interesting this time is who is last man standing. With reducing market share it doesn't look like it will be Apple and this time there is no Steve Jobs to rescue them from the fall.
What is news here?
Hmm, why does "shipments don’t necessarily equal sales" only apply to Windows Phone 8 devices?
And why should it be surprising that Windows Phone 8 is the fastest growing phone OS? Now that Nokia has got a full range of devices to market, including entry level phones like the 520, there was always going to be a jump upwards from the very low base. Seeing the absolute numbers would give another perspective on that. Nokia has always delivered good phones and has a loyal following of people who care more that the phone is a Nokia than what the OS happens to be.
Looks like Blackberry is destined to become a mobile apps and services provider. Compared to its competitors it just doesn't have the cash, especially with Microsoft's billions backing Nokia for the 3rd spot. I wouldn't be surpirsed to see them snapped up soo, especially if the share price declines significantly below $10.
Re: Congrats Steve
You obviously have no idea what Office 365 provides do you?
Re: So if the PC dies
This is the most reasoned post I have come across in relation to this article.
Thank you for restoring my faith that there is still intelligent life in these forums.
Re: The insanity that is Microsoft
Haven't read the different Office 365 plans have you?
Especially not the home premium plan that allows the full install of Office 2013 on 5 different machines?
Can't let the truth get in the way of a nice rant now can we?
Re: So Microsoft don't want my money anymore?
"The fact that there is no other option for retail purchasers is insane. The fact that their terms are likely illegal where I live is just the Cherry on top."
Facts have nothing to do with these statements. there are lots of other options for retail purchasers and the terms are not in any way illegal, just because there are lots of other options.
Re: 365/2013, radio ads
Don't read the license, don't complain.
No. Read the license it's all there. You do know how to read right?
Re: So if the PC dies
I wonder why some people take such determinedly one sided positions that they make themselves incapable of rational argument and unable to be objective about facts.
No-one gives you the right to dictate the terms on which commercial organizations offer their products. You always have the choice not to pay and not to use. Other people choose differently as is their right.
Re: LO cloud?
You have no idea what Office 365 offers do you?
You really have no idea what this discussion is about do you?
Re: Why do you care?
You obviously have no idea of the full range of Office licenses available do you?
If you want to read documents sent by someone else but don't want to buy Office there is always the free viewer.
The license being discussed is a non-commercial license for a single machine offered through retail outlets, so yes it is comparable to the games you buy for a console.
If you want to do anything other than use it on one single machine then you buy a different license. Why is that so hard to understand? No-one is forcing you to buy this particular license.
If you don't want to buy a license from Microsoft buy a different office suite or download a free one. You can still use the viewer to see what documents should look like.
Its your choice.
As you say you can always choose Apple. But that's like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire isn't it?
Why do you care?
So much hatred for so little reason. Primarily from people clearly stating they don't or won't use the offending product anyway!
Microsoft's licenses are no more or less draconian than most other commercial software licenses. If you don't like the license don't buy the product. Nobody is forcing you. If you don't care enough to spend a few minutes learning what you are spending your money on that is your problem, not Microsoft's. Caveat Emptor.
At the end of the day it is their product and they can do what the hell they like with it. If people care enough they'll use an alternative. Most people don't care so Microsoft carries on making big buckets of money and people whinge and whine it ain't fair. Exploiting people's laziness, ignorance and stupidity is hardly a new game. Nothing unique about Microsoft in that.
Re: It's simple
LOL. Cannot figure out an XBox???? Expert admin wife takes an hour??!!!? Cataracts????
What a joke. But then I suppose anyone who spends time yelling at their TV cannot be taken seriously anyway. I sure as hell hope you don't work in IT.
Re: I would never buy a Win8 phone
Playing with Windows Phone in a shop just doesn't impart what the interface does. I glance at my screen and get so much information without ever having to open an app. I can see at a glance if I have emails, messages, missed calls, what my next appointment is, what the weather is like and how my stocks are doing. All without opening an app.
My kids have android phones. 3 (out of 4) of them have the same phone. After a year half the stuff doesn't work properly anymore. After playing with the windows phones (I had a 7.5 before the 8) two want a windows phone and are fighting over the 7.5.
Re: Too little, no credibility, too expensive
Actually more like XBox. That's where much of the design language originated after all. And yes XBox took several years to overcome firmly established opposition amidst all sorts of cries of there aren't any games, no-one will lead with XBox, etc. etc.
Microsoft has a track record of being late to a particular market and then crunching the opposition over years by spending big bucks. Only time will tell whether they can pull it off again.
Personally I like Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 and have both. The phone and tablet work better for me than other devices I had previously, but then I make heavy use of Office, especially OneNote and spend lots of time with Windows Server (having touch via RDP to a Windows Server 2012 VM in the cloud is just neat). Integration to work Exchange and SharePoint servers and SkyDrive work very well for me and I haven't found a scenario where I needed an app I couldn't find, but then I use LinkedIn and Twitter and not Tumblr or Instagram.
People in the Linux/android/iOS worlds will continue to spew hatred and vitriol and proclaim doom and gloom and moan how bad Microsoft are whilst not using their products. Maybe one day they will grow up and learn how to debate on facts. Using FUD against Microsoft doesn't work, they are the 800lb gorilla and there are thousands of people making a very good living utilising Microsoft technology to very good effect.
Re: (Insert El Reg tombstone)
And yes there a number of RT devices from OEMs like ASUS, Acer, Lenovu and Samsung.
Re: (Insert El Reg tombstone)
Coming from Eadon this is just so rich as to be unreal. Could it be he is afraid of losing the argument?
Re: El Reg just doesn't get it.
The exception proves the rule.
Re: ballmer has to walk
Nobody said 40m PCs were sold. 40m copies of Windows 8 were sold. More than Windows 7 at the same point using the same accounting principles, however convoluted those might be.
Because some people get so wedded to their personal technology choices that anyone making a different choice is insulting them personally. It is especially prevalent with users of minority technologies that the vast majority of people don't adopt in spite of the proponents constantly explaining how much better they are.
Re: "I dont have any issues"
Why the big surprise? Its easy to use for lots of people. In my office there is already a Surface RT a Sony Duo and a Samsung Ativ purchased individually by different people in spite of already owning other devices. No-one is having any problems using them.
IBM released OS/2 before MS came out with Windows 3. IBM was the giant and MS the underdog. In the tablet world Apple is the new IBM with the dominant market defining position (everything was an IBM clone back then) and MS the underdog coming late to the party with something that was totally different from the previous ecosystem (DOS character apps) but that worked something like the leader was doing (Presentation Manager then, touch and guestures now) but still allowed previous generation apps to run (DOS box then, desktop now).
The analogy isn't Microsoft being the new IBM, its Apple that is playing at being IBM with a totally closed in, everything built by me ecosystem.
Re: Not getting either RT or Surface Pro
If you all want to do is RDP then look at iPad or Win RT. Fine for a short time. Personally I want the power of a real computer with the ease of use and portability of a tablet and need to be able to do real work whilst disconnected.
If you go the pub at lunchtime for any type of session let alone a heavy one then in my not so humble opinion you are not a professional and I would fire you forthwith whether you lost a device or not. Straw Man.
Re: The competitor isn't the iPad but the MacBook Air
Exactly. These hybrid Win 8 devices compete against the ultras, not the tablets. It's only the ignorant el reg and wired fanboi journos who don't seem to get this.
Re: Not getting either RT or Surface Pro
Rubbish. Office 2007, 2010 and 2013 all use the same file formats (e.g. .docx, xlsx) and can process documents from previous versions (e.g. doc, xls) including being able to save. Another one of those myths the anti-microsoft brigade like to perpetuate.
Re: Not getting either RT or Surface Pro
Google Docs is not Office. It doesn't come close to the feature set or have the same ability to render anything but the most basic documents. For most corporates the Office/SharePoint duo is king whether you like it or not. With Win 8 Pro you get full domain integration and everything that goes with it. In that environment an IPad provides no benefit over the latest generation of phones.
El Reg just doesn't get it.
You can't use an iPad for real work. It simply won't run the apps that get used in the business world. Therefore comparing any Windows 8 tablet to iPad is a false comparison. Windows RT competes with iPad. That is where any comparison should stop. At best a mail and calendar client from a business point of view.
I have a Samsung Ativ Smart PC Pro and a Nokia Lumia 920. I have Office 2013 on the tablet and mobile OneNote on both. All my mail, contacts, calendars and files are synced across all my devices. I'm wondering if I even need my desktop anymore as I can hook up the tablet to a usb docking hub and have multiple screens and a full size keyboard if I want.
The biggest problem I've seen is actually trying to get hands on with these new devices. There just aren't any in the channel. I resorted to phoning local retailers on a daily basis to find out when they had stock because it didn't last for more than a day. That's how I managed to get both the tablet and phone. Other people I know are still searching.
Re: "People get it, and like it."
As someone who has a Win 8 tablet and a Nokia Lumia 920 and finds both of them awesome I have to say you have absolutely no f*cking idea what you are talking about.
I do get them. They are easy and intuitive to use. Yes there is a small learning curve when you first switch to a touch screen but it is no harder than switching to any other touch screen interface. You just have to learn the guestures. And the bonus with Win 8 is that I can always access the huge number of legacy apps without being forced to buy them through a store and they just run on the desktop like they always have.
Re: hmmm nothing conclusive but ballmer is still mad.
Hmmm. Three menus to shut down. That would be charm bar, power down button, select shutdown option, as opposed to Windows 7 start button, shut down button, select shuitdown option. Isn't total ignorance a blissful state of being?
Re: Woz Spots Microsoft's Big Problem
And right now it is too early to tell which way Microsoft is heading with Windows 8.
Microsoft can afford to spend a lot of money making sure they are successful in the tablet and phone markets over time. Just ask Sony how it feels to be at butt end of a long term Microsoft marketing campaign where the immediate goal is market dominance with a need for profitability only on the distant horizon.
Woz remembers what happened to Apple the first time they tried to fight Microsoft.
Re: A *BIG* difference
And there is the problem in a nutshell. Every different flavour of unix/linux. Fracturing all over the place yet again. Except of course with Android you have to pay for the Apple and Microsoft patent licensing or risk the legal big guns being turned on you. Just ask HTC.
So why don't you go and hack those then? Why do want to install Linux on a Windows tablet? Hardware no good?
Re: A *BIG* difference
Why don't you Linux fanbois go make your own tablet? Then you can hack something that no-one else would want to use so you wouldn't harm anyone.
And there speaks the voice of total ignorance. For your information I'm talking about the Samsung Ativ Smart PC Pro model XE700T1C.
My Samsung tablet is "instant on". I press the power button and the logon screen appears. I enter my password and the UI appears. Sub-second response each time. On my 15 year old daughters Asus laptop the boot time to password is less than 10 seconds, over 50% improvement. From password entry to UI taking input less than 2. Significant improvements from previous Windows 7. Shutdown is almost instaneous, although the disk busy light keeps going for a couple of seconds after the UI has gone.
Get over it
Any idiot could have predicted these numbers. Seems some journos are letting their bias affect their brains.
Windows 7 followed the unsuccesful Vista so there was lots of interest in upgrading.
Windows 8 follows the successful 7 so there is a lot less interest.
That doesn't make Windows 8 unsuccessful or anything else. What will be more interesting is the business uptake of Windows Server 2012. That will be a much better indicator of business adaption in the short term.
Consumer adoption of Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 is much more important to Microsoft at this stage to stop the bleeding to Apple and Google. Given Apple's recent missteps and Google getting into anti-trust and entanglements and both having big patent issues Microsoft's window of opportunity lloks better now than in the recent past.
Re: Several decent, fully featured Office suites on Android already
Because although the majority of users make use of very few office features, most of the features are actually used by someone. Power users make a lot of noise when you take away some critical feature they rely on. Besides the whole ecosystem of products around Office and the TOC makes the choice really easy for a corporate.
Anyone can post speculative nonsense. The basic rule of the game has always been and always will be keep your skills relevant to a sizeable chunk of the market. It really doesn't matter which technology as long as you are willing to change and adapt. If you can't change and adapt you're in the wrong business to start with.
A Positive Review?
Shocking - nice things said about MS. What is the world coming to? Oh yes, I know, it's about to end!!
Re: Surface will FAIL
Obviously a total lack of understanding of the market. Just because *you* don't use it or see it being used doesn't mean it isn't being used.
Given that MS invented the tablet market with Windows XP tablets and invented the smart phone market with Windows Phone 6.5 its a bit difficult to see how they are copying Google and Apple. The fact that those products were too early and not very good doesn't mean they didn't create the segment.
Given how MS build markets over many years, e.g. DOS, Windows, Word, Excel, Office, XBox, etc, none of which were firsts, but are more Last Man Standing, I would think Apple and Google should be worried not the other way around.
I suppose you are too young to remember CP/M, OS/2, VisiCalc, Lotus 1-2-3, WordStar, WordPerfect, Corel Office or all the others that have fallen under the wheels of the MS Juggernaut.
Personally I've been watching this current strategy of PDA (Smart Phone) Tablet and Cloud develop for over a decade. Where did I first see is described? In a video from MS.
The fact that MS are no longer operating under the DOJ consent decree mean that the gloves are off and MS is free to compete again. The last year has seen a huge amount of new MS tech. Seeing how it will develop will be interesting, and I for one won't right off MS until they no longer sit on a huge pile of cash that allows them to do whatever it takes.
Re: Cross-platform apps
Obviously not a developer. All these things already exist. There are lots of reasons why they are not much used. Apple banned apps built with them, every platform has a different user experience and a native app out-performs a cross-platform one any day.
Re: Shills & Trolls
Why will their applications not work as expected? The operating system is changing not their software! All those existing apps will still run. The navigation might be slightly different, but hey, guess what, chances are their phone doesn't have a start button either and they manage that just fine. If they have trouble they'll ask the family techie who'll sort them out in two minutes.
-Changing 15 years of desktop habits because Microsoft wants me to buy their tablet too is a poor reason.
No its not. Its the way they make money. If they don't change now it will be a bigger problem later. You don't have to change. Don't buy a new machine or if it is OEM'd with 8 you can just install 7. I've used Windows since Windows 286 if you even know what that is. I've also used just about every other desktop OS at one point another. Change happens. We survive and move on. The whole brouhah will be forgotton in 18 months just like every other time. Techies always under estimate the ability of Joe Public to adapt and make things work. The arrogance is mind boggling.
As for the rest, connecting socialist wet dreams to windows indicates either abysmal ignorance or incredible naivity. I pity your lack of a coherent world view. Go live in Southern Europe.
The Register loses the plot
Continuing articles like this just prove by how much El Reg has lost the plot with respect to Microsoft and Windows.
Too many penguins and fanbois for any intelligent discussion of actual pros and cons of Windows 8 and the impact on real world computing environments.
Seen these religous wars before. Somehow, in spite of all the mistakes, doomsayers and haters, Microsoft manages to keep on making products that millions spend billions on, whether by choice or otherwise.
Love it or hate it Windows 8 is an important product that potentially changes the whole space. The development tools developed over the last decade still work. Talented developers always adapt. If you can't adapt you're in the wrong business. The apps developed over the last 15 years mostly still work. Consumers and Businesses will buy on it and run it on a range of devices. Life goes on.
Shills & Trolls
Why should any Windows user care about the opinions of a Linux Desktop user in relation to Windows?
Why should any Windows user care about the opinions of anyone who uses the M$ label?
Why should any Windows user care about fanboi opinions?
There is always resistance to change. If you don't want to change stay with what you have. Microsoft will be supporting Windows 7 for years.
For those of us who have a mixed environment of smart phones, tablets, laptops and desktops having one common UI across all devices makes a lot of sense, especially taken in conjunction with Office 365.
Nobody has to adopt on day 1. Change when you are ready. Personally that will be sonner rather later.
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