25 posts • joined 30 Nov 2011
Re: NBN for average or high end users?
@ Fluffy Bunny
There has been an identified need for a National Broadband Infrastructure for decades, just the only way anything but high value areas would be covered is by taxpayer subsidies.
The private sector failed to deliver in fixed broadband Nationally
The Nationals even produced a National FTTP NBN plan very similar to the Labor FTTP prior to the 2007 election, why they called the initial Labor FTTN plan "Fraudband" (Fiona Nash website).
Ascertain the facts.
The current Malcolm's mates crew can look good because the core infrastructure and systems have been built, you know the foundations and framework.
Major delays are due to Telstra's tardy and patchy remediation, causing delays and economic pressures on Contractors and Sub Contractors as well as questions on contractors project management skills as highlighted by subbie's comments re the people they dealt with which were printed in News Ltd, edited once they realised it was Contractors failing not NBN - good old internet I have a PDF copy of both versions.
It is a massive task, which we all recognise
That always has been Telstra's responsibility, it had been a issue for over a year which had been reported in the media and was blocking the rollout in some areas. Yet Telstra was ahead of schedule installing backhaul and transit links needed for both options
Strange it suddenly became an issue plastered over the media just as the install was ramping up just before the elections becoming a political media issue.
Telstra has financially benefited and now has greater control, also benefiting their Foxtel/News Ltd Partners.
"So to answer the question you should have asked "should an NBN service that meets average needs or high-end users be provided"... the answer is obviously, "whatever they want to pay for"."
So depends on what is actually practically/technically possible.
Depends on whether you view the NBN as Essential National Infrastructure or as a plaything for the jaded rich, as a for the immediate future or the next 50+ years
Re: BS alternatives
And who may I ask do you think is paying for it.?
Are you just another mushroom ?
The ISP'S are paying for it directly and the customer is paying the isp, the higher value customers subsidise the lower value plans. FTTP NBN actually had extremely good take up of 50/100 Mb plans (many for guaranteed upload capability - cloud backup/storage - cloud programs, Video security allowing multiple cameras AND a HD pan zoom and tilt camera wit low compression [max detail])
Consider even the Questionable NBN Review identified that including Operational and Maintenance costs (with fudged figures and excluding HFC/Copper costs) by 2027 both multimix and FTTP would cost the same, with multimix costing more and more as the years progress.
FOD . Only just a fibre port off the FTTN module, not GPON. Considering equal costs by 2027, why demand extra cost to the Nation for all the extra FOD's when un necessary under FTTP
The taxpayer is not paying for the FTTP option, all loans and interest will be paid off and a return generated. This will be less likely regardless of the CBA rhetoric, done by private sector, guaranteed large Taxpayer subsidies.
The US shows the actual realities. Google only partially connects cities, the Cable Companies are rip offs with a disgusting reputation. Competition is an illusion with incumbents lobbying for and achieving legislation blocking competition and broadband being basically pockets of mini monopolies
Re: Show me the hardware.
"BUT, remember that the ratio is 1:32 for GPON, meaning 1 incoming fibre from the exchange split to 32 endpoints. So, you need to lay more fibre loops to each of the nodes. And, as these nodes are numerous, that's lots of separate runs of small bundles, rather than one run of a larger bundle if you build a new GPON node. But again, that's a new node - new infrastructure!"
Labor FTTP NBN as you state uses 32 split nodes, they generally populate between 26-28 leaving spares for increased services (property development etc).
However in fact x64/x128/256 splitters are available as are x8/x16.
Knowing the practical incompetence of the current Government and it's politically and ideologically committed NBN management, I suspect they would take the cheap option of x256 split and proclaim how FTTP is of marginal improvement over FTTN/HFC rather than run in the extra fibre needed for a x32 split. With lower split ratios for business precincts, thus crippling innovation, small start up innovative companies work from home and can't afford the high business premises rent on top of everything else
Re: BS alternatives
Guess your post demonstrates the truism of the meme, repeat a lie enough it becomes the "truth".
It was far from incompetent planning and execution, in fact the development was based on the Germanic methodology of first attend to the foundations and core elements, establish initial builds and continuously evaluate and improve, slow to start, but once best practice and methodolgy established it ramps up very rapidly.
"The pilot took into account design changes formulated by network builder, NBN Co, last year as then chief executive Mike Quigley undertook a substantial review of the project and identified initiatives to reduce its cost and length."
"The results confirm Labor's NBN was improving in the lead-up to the election, a point Mr Quigley had pressed in a speech to industry group TelSoc in December.
He said the NBN was "knocking over the problems one by one and ramping itself into a scale rollout. And it was doing this without allowing any large increases in costs."
and to reiterate
"And it was doing this without allowing any large increases in costs"
Re: Future Proof
The truly sad thing is that the LBN won't even save a few bucks over the medium to long term and yet be so inferior as a national communications platform that it is pathetic long term
Just for starters, FTTP with 4 Discrete Data ports and an NTU looking at 2.5Gb at this stage is just comparing chalk and cheese with a single limited data stream through ONE isp, yet only a relatively small difference in up front cost and marginal difference in install time.
Right wing fantasy land ideology reigns supreme
Lock in Desired
Currently with 4 ports 4 discrete services can be provided from different providers. NBN is suggesting/offering unmetered product on port 4 for Government and Community Services such as education / health etc - no rsp provided / paid for service required - think health monitoring for seniors who have no need for broadband services or possibly even a POT's service.
Think multicast Video on port 3 with a different metering option, maybe video/security services.
The NTU looks at currently 2.5GB, the roadmap provides for 10 and 40 Gb
Simon is aware of these factors, obviously would prefer any possible services consumed data provided at a price by them with no possibility of choosing appropriate providers for appropriate product.
The exact same issue the FTTB and FTTN/FTTC confront and why they will always be a second rate poverty communications product
WOT and leave us to the tender mercies of Murdoch, Reinhart and Packer etc, unelected as a dictatorship.
Look forward to slavery
Re: Dont forget
People forget the firestick hunters, they decimated forests, in fact The Early visitors to Australia called them the smoky lands, the firestick hunting over 10's of thousands of years changed the flora. They never discovered pottery, so no kilns so no metalwork., no agriculture or settlements.
However in the rest of the world
Kilns, slash and burn agriculture replaced the firestick hunters, the kilns grew, firewood was not enough, the charcoal burners became a major trade, there were many coal mines as well as metals. The furnaces and kilns were inefficient and the forests were being destroyed. The Black Plague saved Europe's forests.
Insulation was non existant and even though not ibdustrialised and a lower population man changed the face of the Earth and produced a hell of a lot of CO2 and Soot
Fails to highlight the abject failure of the private sector and competition to provide the essential infrastructure for now let alone the future.
Fails to address the unreliability and fault propensity of the current offerings
Even his beloved mates company Opticomm only improved its products and prices on offer to NBN equivalent with the advent of the NBN.
Telstra only started it's top hat and exchange upgrades with the advent of the NBN. After all why enable competitors at substantial cost, the economic reality for the private operators is profit, it is far more profitable to force customers on to their highly profitable UNREGULATED wireless, with their highly profitable and expensive Wholesale offerings for those who need more. Telstra has only gone for the wired broadband seriously since the advent of the NBN.
Private Sector and "Competition" are about market share, control of the market and PROFIT.
The NBN has been the factor to actually stimulate improvement and competition, not the vague wishy washy ideologicall fantasy land obsessive mantras of the coalition and vested interests.
Telstra's FTTH offerings either on estates or South Bris are crippled to consumer grade (HFC equivalent) and expensive
iiNet complained about the NBN overbuilding their Transact Fibre in Ballarat as they could not compete with price or product.
On the blogs we have complaints about the crappy expensive fibre products, on examination they are private sector products, poor old Gertrude whingeing about her expensive rubbish fibre broadband in her 3y old Canberra home, Transact of course but on that basis knocking the NBN
We have the need for NBN because of the Coalitions obsession with depending on the private sector and "competition".
This time it will be better they say because we will guarantee budget deficits by throwing Billions in subsidies to the private sector for eternity to provide a second rate expensive to maintain solution that will only ever be upgraded if ever in a limited piecemeal manner and NEVER be truly ubiquitous and business capable.
No real long term benefit to the Nation or the economy, but a purely political and look after your mates in a very limited sector of the economy.
Patch up the black spots to a consumer grade and that will be it. Job done and the taxpayer will have to pay the bill and the subsidies for eternity, the Liberal way
It is all a Fraud
A record minimum sea-ice coverage of 4.21 million sq km was observed by satellite on 24 August 2012, one month earlier than previous minimum record set on 24 September, 2007.
Daily Value Daily drop Running Drop
2007 Minimum 4250000
The latest value : 3,819,219 km2 (August 30, 2012) 3819219 430781 430781
The latest value : 3,801,406 km2 (August 31, 2012) 3801406 17813 448594
The latest value : 3,740,781 km2 (September 1, 2012) 3740781 60625 509219
The latest value : 3,710,625 km2 (September 2, 2012) 3710625 30156 539375
The latest value : 3,679,844 km2 (September 3, 2012) 3679844 30781 570156
The latest value : 3,683,281 km2 (September 4, 2012) 3683281 -3437 566719
The latest value : 3,628,125 km2 (September 5, 2012) 3628125 55156 621875
The latest value : 3,614,219 km2 (September 6, 2012) 3614219 13906 635781
The latest value : 3,601,875 km2 (September 7, 2012) 3601875 12344 648125
The latest value : 3,595,781 km2 (September 8, 2012) 3595781 6094 654219
The latest value : 3,593,750 km2 (September 9, 2012) 3593750 2031 656250
The NBN is the ubiquitous National Communications platform that will cater for those aspects such as health education commerce and business AND Joe publics entertainment.
For just a hint
Well and good.
1) What alternative would be superior ?, a few comparable examples would be great. Oh that's right p[rivate sector provided like in the US where they are largely vertically integrated increasing prices and capping their plans also ( have to pay their shareholders and have an ROI with 5-7 years ), or maybe the Coalition FTTN which will never be truly ubiquitous or deliver anything like the NBN will.
2) Those business services will lift ARPU massively, Comm Bank is waiting for it, Macquarie is hanging in for it for many of their clients, just a scratch of the surface. The FTTN network will not do it, even the partial this and that won't do it.
3) I doubt many private users will want the 1Gb, however at that pricing the Corporate and Business sector will be getting a steal compared with what they are now paying with improved flexibility and Australia wide access as a bonus. Their volume will really boost the ARPU. Massively reducing wholesale costs to the private consumer who will end up with far cheaper than current ADSL2+ and the Coalitions FTTN patchwork quilt as they won't have that Business capability to anywhere within the 93% fibre footprint.
So it will pay for itself, return a profit and once paid for the pricing will continue to fall (Mandated return) , in 20 years time it will be so cheap and is built for the next 50 years
The take up rates so far show that over 80% choose better than ADSL2+ (25/5 is better than 24/2), NBN has always been conservative in their take up predictions and don't forget that the 7% in wireless and satellite at this time are limited to 12/1.
Rich mans toy, you gotta be joking, for what I am paying for line rental and ADSL2+ that maxes at 6Mb I can get 50/20 with more download and save money. I could choose to go 25/5 and save even more money. and have a better, more stable and reliable service.
The 12/1 basic service is cheaper than the alternative non NBN when line rental is considered. That is why tiered, true user pays but even then not that much more for far better than otherwise available.
When the 1Gb is SWITCHED ON in 2014 the business user will lift ARPU resulting in reduced wholesale pricing
Re: Greenland melting
Every 150 Years
Last Happened 120 years ago (does 30 years early mean anything )
“However, capturing the business market for the NBN could provide a saviour for Macquarie Telecom’s falling telco revenues.
Chris Greig, group executive of Macquarie Telecom’s telco business, told Computerworld Australia it plans to bring NBN business plans to the market in October this year.
While the company is still working out the finer details of what its plans will comprise, he said existing business clients have already shown interest in switching onto the NBN once it is available.”
“He said so far companies are considering two options for the migration to the NBN. “There are some customers who have said, ‘I want to wait for the whole NBN to roll out across my sites and then I’ll do one project’. Then there are a number of others who have said, ‘I want to plan to roll it out as it comes through in my territory’,” he said. ”
Read the whole article. No demand?, No demand for the up to 1Gb capability which will be lifting the ARPU and lowering wholesale prices and guaranteeing the ROI for the NBN.?
Then compare with the reports on the same report in the AFR and News Ltd. rags
Then we have the CBA putting in their rwo bobs worth
Methinks the supposedly pro business Coalition doesn’t have a clue what the needs of business and the economy actually are their Playschool imitation NBN just won’t cut the mustard, so focussed on Video purely because of the threat to their masters Pay TV monopoly, economic incompetence
The Opposition are allowing their policies to be determined by the arrogant and ignorant media Shock jocks and Ruperts media.
In fact when you read the NBN vitriol, it comes back to wanting the taxpayer to subsidise and increase the footprint of Murdochs Pay TV Network (OPTUS HFC). Claiming for ccompetition, the reality to prevent competition to Murdochs Pay TV. Give the mugs limited or no choice
Re: NBN = TNM
May I suggest a wise person would not flaunt their ignorance and then build a fantastic edifice on it.
With the NBN connection on 93% of houses, except for the simpletons that refuse the free connection. Add in the sophisticated Management systems and B2B program, not only can you be up and running within days, maybe hours. You also have several providers offering monthly options. i.e Club Telco ,iiNet. If you were that keen you could take your service with you to a holiday house (Club Telco no cost for the temp relocate) and be with your family and still work some of the day.
Maybe find out what the real benefits are, what SMBE's are ripped off for for a business grade service and the massive savings with the NBN.
In 2014 the 1Gb is to be switched on for business (THE NBN is designed for 1Gb and greater).
That is where the NBN will be getting its high value customers and high volume traffic which is what will lift the per user income average and lower the wholesale cost for all of us.
Remember, profit is limited, "profit" is translated to lower charges. - whaty could be better than that?
Re: taxpayer money well spent?
They remain Optus customers,But they now have a choice they did not have before.
The Government subsidies (incentive) required to upgrade would have cost not much less and for what actual benefit. It will be inadequate within another 10-15 years, still expensive to maintain and still not truly business capable.
The ONLY beneficiary would be Skytels and Foxtels proprietors
Re: buying your customers
3) There are and will remain Corporate and CBD and Business and Industrial Park Fibre Networks.
There are existing wireless networks being upgraded to 4G, wireless needs load shedding to remain viable.
The NBN being a wholesale only network, there are NO retail customers, only retailers such as Optus, who actually prefer to be rid of their HFC with the associated management and maintenance costs, moving their customers onto a standardised platform that can be integrated with their wireless network NATION WIDE.
Neither Optus or Telstra are interested in upgrading or extending their HFC Networks, it could only happen with pressure from Government and Massive taxpayer subsidies. But then that is the lifeblood of so much "competition" in infrastructure
Re: buying your customers
2) Australias NBN is A WHOLESALE ONLY NATIONAL UBIQUITOUS STANDARDISED BUSINESS CAPABLE NETWORK THAT BEING 93% FTTH is readily and economically upgraded,1Gb is planned to be available within a year. Also wireless to some (currently 12/1 but installed to be capable for 25/5 in the future ) - Backhaul and Transit networks to provide the capacity are also being installed. 12/1 Purpose Built latest technology Satellite is also being built, leased 6/1 as interim.
Unfortunately the disaster Howard and Costello left the Nation means truly major work has to be done in infrastructure in so many areas.
The private sector failed to deliver, competition was as usual a disaster in basic core National infrastructure, we don't have multiple retail Power, Water Sewage etc infrastructure competition for good reason.
Re: buying your customers
First, lets get some facts straight for yourself and the readers.
1) Australia has had communications competition for 20 years, Telstra the incumbent was never separated as a political decision by John Howard when he reversed the processes in hand to do so by the previous Keating Government . As a result there has never been any real infrastructure competition, apart from corporate and business parks and Greenfields estates where the developer pays for it. Much of the Nation including Major Metropolitan areas have limited if any access to Broadband. The Regional and rural sectors have been heavily subsidised by the Taxpayer and yet most have NO or limited and EXPENSIVE access to B/B. The Optus HFC was designed and implemented as a Cable TV with Telephony capability Network and was overbuilt. by Telstra HFC , as competition meant split customer availability, it was not economic The actual rollout was halted and was a financial disaster for both.
Elsewhere in the World, infrastructure competition in communications apart from wireless has actually been counter productive. That is why the US is having to spend over $300Bill as a partial patchwork fix.
That HFC Network was designed and implemented as a Multicast TV with Telephony capability Cable Network. not built for B/B and struggling to adequately provide it. Foxtel (partly owned by News Ltd.) and Sky Channel - (Wholly News Ltd.). Never business capable, just a pain in the butt for everyone except Murdoch.
As Howard had reversed the legislation and processes that Keating was implementing to structurally separate Telecom. Why? (Ah there is a dirty little story, lets just say returning favours), as a result Telecom followed and overbuilt Optus HFC. So infrastructure never upgraded, now 15 plus years old. Sure latest Docsis implementation but hugely congested especially peak periods. Lots of unhappy customers.
Due to Howards actions the Government owed Optus even though of a different flavour.
Best and cleanest solution. Win/Win
Isn't it about time the other carriers had to open their fibre and HFC networks to competition, so far they have been immune, it is only Telstra that has been forced to allow access. So many of them brag about the extent of their networks yet try to get iiNet or Dodo etc. services on their networks at comparable pricing to their services via alternate networks
Mountains and Molehills
The Hendra virus is but an example with current public relevance, there are other factors such as the warming of the Southern Oceans and the increasing acidification, the Southward migration of seaweed and other ocean lifeforms seeking cooler waters. The southward march of Tropical and warmer clime parasites and diseases is a greater concern than recognised as we do not even recognise parasites as a problem, largely because Big Pharma has very limited solutions so the issue is largely ignored. Google "human parasites", some rather nasty warm climate examples the cure for is an operation. The population in the countries where prevalent include the herbs in their diet that combat many of these parasites. Google "occular infestations" - the poor old earwig got the rap for a rove beetle that appears almost identical. just sans rear pincers and plus wings. So the consequences apart from flooded mines and infrastructure damage are most extensive. There is concern over higher night temperatures affecting crop development and maturation
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