801 posts • joined 28 Nov 2011
Re: Not so fast, pal.
"Like what evidence?" . Maybe a prior conviction for 'felony impersonation of a volunteer,'
"I wonder how many other groupies are out there thinking 'Hey, he did that to me too!'" . What would that be? Breach of Condom? You have your feet in Never Never Land when you dream up hypotheticals like that. I knew I'd seen you someplace before.
"A$$nut's lawyers have to persuade Ny to drop the case," . There are wheels within wheels. Guess which one approves dropping it: Marianne Ny, Beatrice Ask, or Fredrik Reinfeldt? (Hint: the decision is above Ny's pay grade.)
"When A$$nut finally gets bored" . 'Oh, I'm so bored I think I'll go to Camp Torquemada in the States, have a couple of years getting water boarded, a couple of years in solitary confinement and then go to maximum security prison where my job will be picking up soap in the shower.' NOT
"Correa gets the boot" . His current term ends 10 August 2013, which could be extended by reelection until 2017. Hey, that's about the same time the anti-missile defense shield becomes operational and the US and it's midget allies RULE THE WORLD. Yeah!
Re: Sing a Song of Sexpence
A pocket full of lies
Quarter million cables
Baked into a pie.
When the pie was opened,
The cables began to sing;
Wasn't that a revolting dish,
To set before the king?
The king was in his counting house,
Charging his accusal,
He was only stalling,
Faking a full perusal.
We will have to agree to disagree about this matter.
Re: "If things go on too long, a climb-down will look even sillier."
1) The appeals made by Assange failed an the EAW was judged valid. That is true.
2) As far as the UK is concerned the facts as presented by the Swedish prosecutor are taken at face value to be true. That is true.
3) As far as the UK court is concerned, assuming the facts as true, do they support the charges made in the EAW? And in the appeals hearing, it was judged that they did. True.
4) The EAW, now judged to be valid means that Assange can go back to Sweden to face his accusers. There, the Swedish Prosecutor will have to make her case. True.
However, you neglected my hypothetical:
Assange's Swedish lawyer uncovers enough evidence of 'false accusation' to deny the probable cause the prosecutor argued in the Swedish Court. Thereby the Swedish Court withdraws its order of extradition and the EAW, which were issued based on a warrant of the Swedish Court.
When England gets notification from Sweden that the Swedish extradition order has been stayed, it ceases to persue Assange for anything except jumping bail in England on an order to be extradited to Sweden which order has just been stayed.
Assange's English lawyers go back to the English Court and asks that court to either dismiss the charge of bail jumping or reduce the penalty to forfeiting the bail money, with or without an additional fine. The Justices there, remembering something in public school about "a pound of flesh," dismiss the charges for Julian Assange.
"He who leaks and runs away, lives to leak another day."
Re: Okay, I erred. (BFD)
But now Assange, granted asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy, is relaxing while you are forced to take several sitz baths a day after your uncontrollable anger at him reached critical mass, and your hemorrhoids melted down into a Chernobyl of painful itching.
Stop posting as Cowardly Liar and let us see your mistakes.
Re: @Ian Michael Gumby
"Are you now saying that Ecuador is actually a better judge of what constitutes a need for political asylum?"
So you are saying that once England, and her legal system, decides that someone with Assange's past doesn't have a claim for political asylum there and must be extradited to Sweden, that the 200 other nations on the planet are obliged to accept the English court's opinion on the matter and also not offer him asylum in their countries and embassies?
"it is unconstitutional for a Swedish government minister to give such an assurance, or to intervene in the case before an extradition request has been made."
That's why the US hasn't charged Assange for 2 years, isn't it? To manipulate the system. To keep foreign governments from knowing what they intend to charge Assange with. And thereby keep foreign governments from knowing what the sentences can be. And keep it from the public at large.
Very noble. Very Honorable. Very 'Home of the Brave.'
Re: "If things go on too long, a climb-down will look even sillier."
"In law, a motion to set aside judgment is an application to overturn or set aside a court's judgment, verdict or other final ruling in a case. Such a motion is proposed by a party who is dissatisfied with the end result of a case. Motions may be made at any time after entry of judgment, and in some circumstances years after the case has been closed by the courts. Generally the motion cannot be based on grounds which were previously considered when deciding a motion for new trial or on an appeal of the judgment, thus the motion can only be granted in unusual circumstances, such as when the judgment was procured by fraud which could not have been discovered at the time of the trial, or if the court entering the judgment lacked the jurisdiction to do so."
So it goes from district court, to circuit (appeals), to supreme court (highest). The supreme court may be overruled by a change of the law by the legislature, but any dismissal granted Assage would be grandfathered in. The courts, btw, will make their decisions with an eye as to what's best for England. And why would England want to appear vindictive about his bail jump, if Assange's lawyer found fraud on the part the victims/complainants (my hypothetical)?
"If things go on too long, a climb-down will look even sillier."
And this is bad because?
<"If they do sneak Assange out, it'll be them in the wrong diplomatically."
If they do sneak Assange out, why would they tell anyone for a couple of years? They'd build a replication of Assange's Knightsbridge bedroom/office, in Quito where JA could harangue TPTB while washing down some bubble and squeak a couple bottles of Old Hooky. Everyone would think he was still near the Prime Meridian. If he got out of the Embassy without being seen, no one's going to know he's flown the coop until they're told.
<"In the end everyone will probably come to a quiet arrangement."
A 'quiet arrangement'. When you think of one be sure and let us know what it is.
Assange's lawyer is working overtime to discredit the accusations of the two victims and the press outside of Sweden is ignoring it. When he's successful he goes back to court where they quash the extradition order. Because England's case was based on an invalid extradition order, his bail skip and bail forfeit are now reopened by the English lawyers.
Hague blames the whole mess on Stockholm and England gets off the hooky.
we're looking for an amicable solution
England === hand him over
Ecuador === let him go
amicable solution == penalty shootout
"He realised, and kept on humping away"
Even though the icon of a spurting penis started flashing on his dashboard.
" not satisfied with claiming the judge and jury had been bought..."
"now you're moved on to claiming Apple has bought the patent office."
You probably should add Samsung's lawyers to your list for not challenging Foreman Hogan during voir dire.
That means treble damages in Korean.
"Unfortunately the P.M. lacks balls."
Either that, or he is not entirely bereft of common sense.
Re: @ Annihilator Another Example of Splaffing Imperiously
You are partially right. When a country changes it's extradition or diplomacy laws, it can annoy the nation with whom it has the extradition treaty but still prevail. Or it can annoy every nation on earth and end up wiping its butt with a travesty like its Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987 and not prevail.
Really, with all these fora, do you consider the interest in Julian Assange, suspected rapist and bail dodger, merely a whim? Interesting.
@ Annihilator Another Example of Splaffing Imperiously
A country's laws on extradition do not have to be justified to other nations, any more than it's laws on rape do.
Annihilator:"Doesn't change the basic premise that a) the same government official would be in place if extradition was served or b) that to pre-judge and rule on a non-existent extradition request outside of due process is fundamentally flawed."
If so the US would be in the International Court of Fundamentally Flawed Laws at the Hague faster than you could say 'extraordinary rendition'.
Re: I've got to say
England could agree to fine him for the bail jump.
Sweden could agree not to extradite him for any crimes committed before June 2012.
The US could agree not to charge him with any crimes committed before June 2012.
Or England can take out the brutal record of 15 years by communist, totalitarian Hungary who confined Cardinal Mindszenty. (Does anyone recall if Hitler busted into a foreign embassy to make an arrest?)
As the years go by with Assange confined in the Ecuadorian Embassy, which way will public opinion move: to England or to Assange?
@ Jim Booth "The evil here is the fuckwit USPTO."
"If software patents were outlawed, these companies would ***gasp*** have to play on a level playing field."
Blame the US Senate. They tell the Patent Office what to do.
"During the early 1960s, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office faced a backlog of patent applications and a 4-year pendency for an application prior to issuance as a patent. The PTO and the patent system experienced further difficulties because of a limited budget and processing methods that could not adequately handle this volume of applications. As a result, the President’s Commission on the Patent System was established in 1965 to address these problems and suggest revisions to the Patent Act. Reflecting the policy concerns of the PTO, **the Commission recommended against patent protection for computer programs.** The Commission report stated:
"The Patent Office now cannot examine applications for programs because of the lack of a classification technique and the requisite search files. Even if these were available, reliable searches would not be feasible or economic because of the tremendous volume of prior art being generated. Without this search, the patenting of programs would be tantamount to registration and the presumption of validity would be all but non-existent."
The Government of the United States is the greatest threat to the United States. But we already knew that.
Re: Ecuador should expect to pay for their stupidity
"They will pay quite a price for harboring Assange."
What did you have in mind? Carpet bombing Quito?
"They clepe us douchbagists, and with swinish phrase soil our addition..."
"The Mail on Sunday has published a photo of a beaming woman, pictured with Assange and three other people, who would later tell police that 48 hours before the picture was taken, the WikiLeaks founder pinned her down in her flat and sexually assaulted her."
Sweden will have to vitiate its extradition order. The English legal system will have to find a way to return Assange's bail money to its rightful owners and quash Assange's arrest order.
The Wheels of Justice grind exceedingly fine.
The Guardian reports today...
"US and European government sources say the United States has issued no criminal charges against the WikiLeaks founder and has made no attempt to extradite him."
What The Guardian doesn't report is that the United States reserves the right to issue criminal charges and attempt to extradite Assange as soon as they have him trapped.
Turns out it was a TARDIS
Assange was heading to the Middle Kingdom in Egypt to bring back Potiphar's wife to explain to the Swedish Court how easy it is to make false accusations of rape. You must remember her from Sunday School.
"Potiphar's wife tried to seduce Joseph, a slave in her husband's household in Egypt. Joseph refused her, and she took her revenge by accusing him of attempted rape." (Genesis 39:1-20)
Re: "In the New World Order,"
New == as in never been seen before
World == as in the 'World's only superpower'
Order == as in STFU and do what I tole you.
Re: "His time is running out."
In that respect he's just like everybody else, isn't he?
Overhauls of extradition treaties are less rare than willy waving by royal princes
<<"The Swedes cannot provide a blanket exemption against extradition. It is illegal for them to do so.">>
If the Swedes have a parliament, and they do, they can make whatever changes to treaties they want to. If they are willing to pay the price. "An example of statutes that are not typically codified is a "private law" that may originate as a private bill, a law affecting only one person or a small group of persons." IOW, governments can create laws that affect one individual person.
"Will the Conservatives amend unfair extradition treaty to save Gary McKinnon?" (Telegraph January 13, 2010)
So far Chris Grayling, the shadow Home secretary, has been scrupulously and sensibly careful about not commenting on the McKinnon case, just in case he has to rule on it in office.
His shadow Cabinet colleague shadow Justice secretary Dominic Grieve has not been so cautious, calling for an overhaul of the extradition treaty being used to send Mr McKinnon to America from the podium at the Conservative party conference."
"The brains are going out all over England. We shall not see them go back on again in our time."
Either this leaked document is supposed to demonstrate how serious Cameron is about never, ever signing a 'safe passage' when England and Ecuador sit down to talk of many things. Or it exists simply to change the subject from Hague's threat to fly in some Israeli bulldozer operators and rescue gorillas to: "We shall go on to the end... We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never let Julian Assange - arch-douche bag - out of the Ecuadorian Embassy."
And calling it a police mistake is unworthy disinformation.
Re: "All the problems of humanity are the fault of the US."
More likely the fault of gay, pot smoking abortionists.
How can El Reg have an article about the dangers of China...
without mentioning China's trusted sidekick, Russia?
No, not sidekick. They are Les frères Corses. The Brothers Corsican. Siamese twins separated at birth, all grown up now and thirsty for revenge for the hostile estrangement they experienced at their birth.
If one of China's huge ones gets through, fine, but it's the destruction of the crude oil off loading terminals in North America and Europe that's their first target. And sinking oil tankers headed to them. The oceans will run black with crude if the US, the UK, NATO, and Israel try to gain some advantage on China and Russia by attacking Iran. It could happen any time before the NATO anti-missile shield is operational, if Russia decides to make good on it's threat to launch a preemptive strike on the Polish, Czech, and Romanian installations.
Preemptive strikes like the kind Israel has used before without retaliation.
After all, what would von Clausewitz do?
"U.S. Withdrawal From the ABM Treaty: President Bush’s Remarks and U.S. Diplomatic Notes"
Anyone who doesn't understand how this relates to today's assignment, please see me after class.
Re: "We will write down your words and use them against you in court."
If the burden of proof in a rape case in Sweden is 'beyond a reasonable doubt:
The first complainant.
The first complainant sought JA out at a lecture with her friend, the second complainant. She invited him back to her apartment for consensual sex. After a kerfuffle about broken and missing condoms, the complainant permitted him to stay overnight with her and did not ask him to leave her apartment or her bed.. Neither did she inform him as they lay naked together in the complainant's bed, that he was only entitled to one bite of the apple, so to speak.
The accused is a famous whistle blower, which is why the first and second complainant volunteered to 'work' for him. He was on the run in Sweden because he published 250,000 cables embarrassing the US government. The complainants sought him out for sex and then said he raped them.
He knows that his client will prevail in the court room. But he has advised Assange not to return to Sweden (i.e. leave the Ecuadorian Embassy) without guarantees. From the US, the UK, and a speedy trial in Sweden.
The trial in Stockholm is a slam dunk for Assange. It's the Mossad-like machinations before or after it that have us Julie-followers in a tizzy.
As for the honey pot, I only pointed out that Julie said "I have never said this is a honey-trap" and a few minutes later "I have never said this is not a honey-trap." The interviewer asked: "Q.You don't buy into that idea (honey pot) because your lawyer's suggested that that's the case." Assange replies, "He says that he was misquoted."
What a lawyer says outside the courtroom is as meaningless as your acronyms. His paralegals are still running down tips about the complainants behavior before they were complainants. You should have studied criminal law and not patent law, if you studied law at all.
"We will write down your words and use them against you in court."
If the object of your post was to demonstrate either Assange's or his Swedish lawyer's fumbling, I'm afraid you failed. Assange neither admits or denies the important stuff. The courtroom stuff.
Assange never tells us his state of mind. His lawyer is the one who puts "honey trap' into the record. "Q.You don't buy into that idea because your lawyer's suggested that that's the case."
"JA: He says that he was misquoted. I have never said that this is a honey-trap."
This interview gives nothing away except John Humphrys' partisanship.
Assange says "I have never said this is a honey-trap" and a few minutes later "I have never said this is not a honey-trap." Assange is saving his testimony for the courtroom, not for the prosecution lawyers learn in advance. Let them come to London. There's a time to ignore procedure. And there's no difference between giving a statement in Stockholm and giving one in Knightsbridge.
But there's a difference between answering questions asked by John Humphrys of the BBC and giving a statement to the Stockholm police, which would be part of the trial record.
Sweden wants to interview Assange in Stockholm because he will be more intimidated there. More frightened. More apt to give a convicting answer. Didn't you know that?
If and when Assange eventually stands trial in Stockholm, his lawyer, like Rumpole of the Bailey, will have dug up whatever evidence about the two women, and the Swedish prosecutors. he could find since December 2010. Did you expect he was going to tell you what he's found?
So why don't they go to Sweden with it now? Because it's evident a trap has been set and not yet sprung.
Assange: "Most of what we know is, in fact, from the newspapers because somehow the Swedish prosecution has been, deliberately and illegally, selectively taking bits of its material and giving them to newspapers". And why would the Swedish prosecution do that?
Is something rotten in Sweden, too.
Aw-shucks, Scorch, thanks for taking time out of your schedule to reply
I know you're busy getting ready to go back to school. I forget. What is it now, Upper Sixth? You can see the golden domes of Oxbridge from there. I'm crossing my fingers for you.
Did your mum take you to Abercrombie and Fitch for your back to school stuff? Don't be wearing the naughty stuff to class; save it for the girls. Your teachers will want you to come over for sherry (hic) and show you some old soccer moves. Save the moves for the playing fields. Keep a kondom in your wallet at all times. Better make it two in case you meet the Swedish Bobbsey twins.
DON'T BE DIPPING YOUR WICK IN A HONEY TRAP (it can be very expensive. google Assange, Julian, if you don't believe me)
Thanks for the link. Here's one for you.
Re: "Swedish Meatballs a la Scorchio. Makes two balls. Flush down toilet before serving."
Now that we understand each other, I'll try to explain why Assange was absolutely correct to skip to England and then into the Ecuadorian embassy after all his appeals were exhausted there. "He should have gone back to Sweden," you said. I don't think so. And I doubt you'd have done it, had your positions been transposed.
Why? When you discover the cards are stacked against you, you always run. It's as simple as that. You don't run or stay for anybody else. Not for your wife and children. You run for yourself. You run to show the world what the people who are chasing you are like and how they're handling people interfering with them.
You fire a warning flare as high into the sky as you can to light up this fact for as long as possible. "The Red Coats are coming. The Red Coats are coming." Or words to that affect. Ironically, the 18th century Americans who heard those words begot the 21st century Americans who are now the monsters themselves.
Nietzsche: "Thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!"
The Israelis, the American's, the Chinese. All peas from the same pod.
Admit it, Scorchio, you have no more knowledge than I do about the Swedish sexual scenes that Assange participated in.
You don't know how long their bout lasted, you don't know what positions they struck, whether it was just genital or, if there was oral and anal sex, and if there were oral and anal sex, when during the act it occured.
More to the point, Scorchio, you have no idea whether or not a condom was used. YOU HAVE NO IDEA IF SHE ASKED HIM TO USE ONE.
Scorchio's Swedish Meatballs
They're not the kind you eat, but the kind that eat you. They gnaw on your bone and lick your platter clean, then they go down to the police station and whine and moan how some cheap Australian condom ended up in her hair. One of the Meatballs, as part of the sting operation claims her pj's were clearly marked "Do not enter when sleeping or unconscious".
The statement that Meatball One waited a couple of days to go to the police after comparing notes with Meatball Two probably would have acquitted Assange. Had she gone or even called the police hours after it happened, there would be no Meatball Two.
Then there would be only one accuser in the court room.
There would be no phoney pattern of condom abuse.
It would simply be his word against hers and not his word against both of theirs.
Assange's Swedish lawyer did not want to see his client corruptly charged and wrongly convicted by a malevolent government and told him to get the fuck out of Sweden.
Would you rather be jailed in a foreign country where they spoke a different language, never knowing what to expect, what your jailers had up their sleeve or would you take asylum in a friendly, foreign embassy; yes, confined, but obviously not in as depressing a situation as being penned up.
"Det är kondom, dumbom!
Positivt svar, dudeska.
Paris knows if a condom's going to break just by watching you put it on.
Pie in the sky
Not to worry
Apple are already working on the iRod. Your own personal control rod which you insert and withdraw from the front pocket of your trousers. When worn together with the lead jumper your mum knitted for you last Christmas and maybe a carbon fiber bumbershoot that many of the MPs have started to carry around this year, well, you should be fine.
Then there's the occasional woman asking you, like Mae West, if that's a control rod in your pocket etc. etc.
David Beckham's next underwear advert campaign:
"The Emperor's New Briefs"
'Look, Mum, 'e doesn't have any shorts on.'
'That's David Beckham's willy, Nigel. Want to get some lovely bangers and mash?'
Re: Stay away until $10
Or, to quoth the Raven, "Forevermore."
Don't get Asia wrong...
she didn't mind getting penetrated. But not the next morning when she was picking the scorpions off her gluteus maximus for breakfast.
She wanted the dude to take an AIDS test. But he didn't want to wait 63,000 years for the clinic to open.
Between the light brigades of wind farms soon to be in your neighborhoods (maybe your very street) and the surface mining of oil shale, which can be seen on Earth by the naked eye from Uranus, let me take this opportunity to say:
WELCOME TO MORDOR.
Our welcome wagon will be calling on you shortly. :)
"Chungwha apparently invested NT$100 million (£2.1m) for a 50 per cent stake
Chungwha is, of course, a wholly owned subsidiary of Proview Shenzhen and the project is slated to be called Suk Ma Whang, Poontang.
Look for the spin-off in November after the US's quadrennial democratic vote fraud.
Listing on the NYSE by Crhistmas and a component of the Dow 30 by the next Chinese New Years.
Kung Hei Fat Choy :o)
Re: UNLESS YOU TAKE THE HONEY.
Or in this case DIDDLE the honey.
"Is there actually a market for the truth?"
"In Dublin's fair city,
Where the girls are so pretty,
I first set my eyes on sweet Molly Malone,
As she wheeled her wheel-barrow,
Through streets broad and narrow,
Crying, "Cock Ups and Hussles, alive, alive, oh!"
Yep, there's a market for the truth. Two for a penny.
And if you want to diddle Molly, well, that's extra.
@ Scorchio!! "a man wanted for criminal offences"
Remind me what other criminal offences Assange is wanted for besides jumping bail. Thanks.
Re: Poor Guy
If he owns Park Place and Boardwalk, I think he got some time.
Flogging round the fleet
There's always the possibility that this 18 month old circus is just a highly publicized and very serious digital deterrent, designed to keep other low level government employees from pulling a Manning/Assange.
No, they are not concerned about the 250,000 cables at Wikileaks now. Yes, they are concerned about what's in the pipe line right now. Something top secret and so explosive it could bring down on our heads everything we hold precious about civilization.
I think I know what it is, but it is far too pessimistic to yammer about on a forum. And, believe me, you are much better off not knowing. I've already said too much.
I always thought the values America was founded on
was smacking the Brits upside the head
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