It is

My current laptop, an Asus A53, shipped with a 750 GB drive partitioned into two (three if you count the recovery partition). It shipped with Win 7. (I made very sure to get it _before_ Win 8 shipped.). I installed Win 8 on the other partition. I tried to use it for 10 days. I removed Win 8 by reformatting the partition. Win 8 was damn near unusable, on the same hardware, and NOT in a VM, while Win 7 Just Worked.

Win 8 is, in my opinion, the worst OS out of Microsoft since Win ME. And this comes from someone who had kind words, right here in El Reg's fora, about Vista. Vista and even ME had good points. Win 8 has no redeeming features whatsoever. Or at least none that I could find in 10 days of trying. It's a damn good thing that I got it for free (off Dreamspark) or I'd be Very Annoyed.

Re: Uber Nerd Eadon

"Seriously - have you even held hands with a girl?"

Does his mother count?

Re: I only know one person using windows 8

"And how many people do you suppose run both Windows and Mac OS or Linux or something occasionally?" Quite a few. including myself.

i don't do Win 8, though.

Re: This can't be Eadon

I said that it was _almost_ reasonable. And, for you, it was. One of your problems is that you're simply rabidly unreasonable on certain subjects, and your rants have long since become merely tiresome.

Re: What IS surprising...

Ah. back to normal. Did you have a fever or something earlier, Eadon?

This can't be Eadon

It's almost reasonable. There's no frothing and not much ranting. That's not Eadon! Someone has stolen his identity! Send out the search parties and find the real Eadon, and locate this impostor and deal with him properly!

Re: @"nations that are run by sexually repressed religious nut bags."

here's one... <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:President_of_iran_Abolhassan_Banisadr.jpg>

Re: Ammunition?

Errm... you don't need a casing. You really don't. Large artillery pieces don't have casings; they use bagged charges. (In)famously the American 152 mm gun-launcher fitted to the Sheridan and the A2 version of the Patton tank didn't use casings. <http://www.military-today.com/tanks/m551_sheridan.htm> (If you've read a few of David Drake's short stories, you might be familiar with the phrase "Have you ever seen a Sheridan burn?" Scariest story of his that I've ever read, mostly 'cause I've met guys just like the protagonist.)

No, if you make the chamber walls thick enough you don't need a casing. I can even see designs were you have a one-shot, throw-away, weapon containing one charge of black powder, some fuse wire, a battery, and a ceramic bullet. Oh. Wait. The US Government actually made weapons like that, back in WWII, and air-dropped them into the Philippines for use against the Japanese. No, they weren't plastic, then, they were wood and aluminium and fibreglass. Came pre-assembled with one .45 ACP round loaded.

Re: As if a Mac user would run windows 24/7

Sigh. I can think of several Mac users who _do_ use Windows all the time. All of them are victims of a very, very, VERY good salesdroid at one local Best Buy, who convinced them that Macs are better machines than anything from Dell/HP/etc., and who got the 'tech' people at the store (anyone who's seen Geek Squad in action knows why I put in the quotes...) to run Boot Camp and install Windows for them or to install a VM (usually Parallels) and stick Windows on that and set the VM to autolaunch on startup. They literally never see OS X; on the Boot Camp machines Windows boots first and they have no idea how to get to OS X, on the VM machines Parallels is set to grab the whole screen.

So, our enterprising young salesdroid has done the following:

1 sold a flock of iMacs and Mac minis (desktop machines all, no hanging out at the cool kids table at Starbucks for these machines)

2 sold a flock of Windows licenses, full price

3 sold a lot of 'tech' time

I'm sure that he made Salesman of the Year.

I found out about this some time ago, when one of his victims called the company for help, and the guy we sent around found that this sweet little old (85 if she was a day) lady had a honking great 27" iMac running (shudder) Vista. And that's just plain Vista, too, no service packs installed... We pretty soon had other customers who were also victims of the same bright young thing.

Re: But

This is a _good_ thing.

Re: I've just been peeling onions, dammit

That's not a tear.

Re: returning the downvote to you

And, oh, yeah, one more thing: there's a significant difference between not getting in your way if you want to install 3rd-party file systems on the OS and installing them at the source. Microsoft (and Apple, and Google) don't prevent you from adding stuff; if it breaks, well, that's your problem, not theirs. I can have my Windows systems have the ability to read/write Apple's HFS+, and indeed I do. Microsoft doesn't give a damn. Apple doesn't give a damn. I can have my Macs read/write NTFS; once again, neither Microsoft nor Apple cares. In both cases there are both commercial and FOSS utilities to allow this. In both cases the utilities in question are kept up to date, and still work just fine with Win7 and 10.8. (I refuse to go near Win8 so I have no idea as to what happens there, and I'm not on Apple's beta test team for 10.9 so I don't know what happens there, either. However, I suspect that the utilities will continue to work on both.) Meanwhile, it's nearly impossible to find some way to write to EXT4 from Windows and the read/write utilities on OS X are getting elderly.

And all the Tux-oriented downvotes in the world will not change this.EXT* file system support on Windows or OS X without installing a 3rd-party system... 'cause it bloody well can't be done. Downvote away.

Re: returning the downvote to you

I didn't downvote you.

And, as I've said repeatedly, USERS NEED TO INSTALL DRIVERS TO USE EXT* FILE SYSTEMS ON MACS OR WINDOWS SYSTEMS. The vast majority of users will not go to that much trouble.

As for all the Linux boxes out there... ho-rah. All 1-2% of the market. 95%+ can't read/write EXT* file systems without installing the proper drivers... and very few of those 95%+ will bother to do so unless given a compelling reason to do so.

Should you feel that Microsoft MUST install support by default, well, the courts are available for your use. Have at them. Me, I'll watch from the sidelines.

Re: @James O'Shea

Err... according to http://blog.applegrew.com/2011/12/access-ext3ext2-file-system-on-mac-osx-lion-10-7/ and http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57457850-263/how-to-manage-ext2-ext3-disks-in-os-x/ among other places, EXT2 is _NOT_ available by default. And, worse, most EXT* implementations will read but not write EXT3 and EXT4. yes, you can get around this. No, normal users won't go to all that trouble.

There is most definitely a problem with EXT* support: It ain't installed by default, and users have to hunt down 3rd-party systems to do the install. MacFUSE is dead, OSXFUSE hasn't been updated since 2011. Sorry, man, but the current state of EXT* driver support on Mac and Windows is abysmal.

As for the monopoly argument... good luck with that one. Microsoft would, correctly, point out that they can't be expected to support non-existent products. There aren't any products out there which use EXT* file systems the way that existing products use FAT* file systems. Microsoft will also point out that they don't force anyone to install FAT* file systems, and, indeed, that they no longer use FAT* file systems on their own stuff; they've been trying to kill FAT* since at least WinXP, it just refuses to die 'cause it's convenient for _other_ people. No, the way to get FAT* to die is to get other vendors to install some other file system... except that this would involve including an installer for the other system with their product, which would increase the cost of that product, and also that installer probably would force users to restart their machines to be sure that the new file system was properly installed. This is likely to be unpopular.

Unless a sufficiently large number of vendors all chose the _same_ 3rd-party file system (and there ain't nothing which says that it'd be EXT* file systems, a bunch of vendors could easily club together and come up with their own file system and split costs between themselves) the big OS vendors (Microsoft and Apple, and, to a lesser extent, Google) simply not only don't have any reason to support non-FAT* file systems (other than their own native file systems, of course) they don't even know which non-FAT* file systems they should support. Why should they support any flavour of EXT* instead of RFS, for instance? And I'd say that it would be likely that any court would regard having to support _all_ the various file systems available for, say, Linux and BSD as being, well, an unreasonable expense. One of the reasons why many Tuxers like Linux is because there is vast choice available in just about any and every subsection of the OS, including the file systems. Choice is good... except when you have to support all possible choices.

Unfortunately, non-FAT* file system support will almost certainly be limited to a small number of 3rd-parties who provide support to the file systems they favor and that's it. OS vendors will probably merely stay out of the way of these projects, and let them sink or swim on their own. Right now the only EXT* supporter who seems to be swimming is Paragon, and they want cold hard cash for their system.

of course, if anyone knows of a way to enable EXT* file system support in Windows or OS X _without_ installing a 3rd-party system, feel free to point it out.

Re: I think that's why NEXUS have no sd card slot

"As for MACs and Windows PCs - open source drivers should be readily availabe, or at least not too difficult to implement."

The first problem is that FAT drivers are built into Windows and Mac O/Ses, so that any vendor would have to provide the EXT* drivers. Development costs would push up the prices of devices using non-FAT file systems.

The second problem is that FOSS EXT* driver development for Windows and Mac seems to have halted years ago. There were, for example, at least two different drivers for MacFUSE. Not only are those drivers dead (or at least I can't find signs of life, I'd love it if someone could show that I'm wrong on this) but it seems that MacFUSE itself ain't with us no more either. The MacFUSE page (http://code.google.com/p/macfuse/) doesn't seem to have been updated since 2007 except to note that MacFUSE is not compatible with Lion, OS X 10.7. Apple currently is pushing 10.8, and 10.9 is, allegedly, on its way out some time later this year.

It would be nice to have _some_ alternative to Paragon, but there doesn't seem to be anyone making the effort. And until that happens, vendors will NOT be shipping devices with EXT* file systems.

Re: I think that's why NEXUS have no sd card slot

"If I need my phone to use a FAT file system to operate with my Windows PC, then didn't I buy a license to use FAT when I bought my copy of Windows 7?"

You have a license to use FAT _on the system you installed Win7 on_. You don't have a license to use it anywhere else, such as on your phone, unless you somehow managed to install Win7 on your phone. And even then you'd need a separate license for each additional device (SD card, flash drive, etc) which you want to use FAT on.

Re: I think that's why NEXUS have no sd card slot

"Everyone should just move to EXT3/4 or something"... Well, NOT EXT4, 'cause it has, errm, 'limited' compatibility with Windows and Mac OS X. Why is this important? Many people want their phones to be able to connect to their computers... and the vast majority of desktop and laptop computers run Windows or OS X. I am willing to be corrected on this, but so far as I know the _only_ way to read/write EXT4 from a Mac is to buy a commercial product, from, I think, Paragon. And, that's better than Windows, as there appear to be ways to _read_ EXT4 from Windows, but not to _write_ it. If i'm incorrect in this, please point me to where I can get the required software, I would _greatly_ appreciate it.

EXT3 has its own compatibility problems, but those could probably be overcome. I know that Paragon (again!) has a commercial driver set which will allow Macs to read/write EXT2/3/4 but I can't seem to locate any open source driver sets which have been in development past around 2005/6 and which are therefore written for PPC, not Intel, systems, and which will therefore not work on current Macs. Perhaps someone who is deeper into the FOSS culture could enlighten me on the current state of FOSS Mac or Windows EXT2/3/4 driver sets?

The reason vendors use FAT file systems on a large number of different devices (flash drives, cameras, memory cards, etc) is that most O/Ses out there will read/write FAT file systems out of the box. No need to install new drivers. No need to use special apps to connect. Just plug the silly things in and go. Vendors will move to EXT* when they can reliably make money selling devices using EXT* file systems to the general public. You know, the people who don't know and don't care what file system their device uses, so long as when they plug it in, it bloody works.

Re: "innocent blogger"

why do you want to poison the poor innocent zombies?

Re: Build a better mouse trap...with cheese.

I like hyenas. They're cute. And much better behaved than politicians.

"are they going to be updated?"

Don't hold your breath. See, for example, this story http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/12/opinion/leon-ice-raid/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7 and note how many mentions there are of cops using bad, and known to be bad, data,,, and no warrants. And then there's this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting. I can't _wait_ to see what the NYPD does with its Droids.

(memo to self: don't visit New York for a while.)

The cameras are in the tail fins.

Re: Or it could mean that...

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

err... if they're doing so well, why are they closing the Shanghai store? Just askin'.

Re: It must be us old fogeys with no perception of speed or distance

"Do people really assume that automotive engineers are psychopaths intent on killing as many road users as possible or what?"

I've seen Smart Cars on the highway. I used to drive a Lada. I've seen the results of Mitsubishi Evo vs almost anything else with four wheels and Honda Life (a.k.a the four-wheeled motorcycle, or just Honda Death) vs anything on the road down to and including a motorcycle. I _know_ that some (many?) automotive engineers (especially German, Italian, and Japanese ones) are psychopaths intent on killing as many road users as possible.

Re: Was it an annoying yellow rat?

Those are all North Korean.

Re: Apperently...

if the boys from Customs are checking on you on your way _out_, you're in trouble. US Customs doesn't usually check people when they're leaving... unless there's a reason to do so. If Customs is looking at you on your way out, you're not getting on that plane. If Customs _and_ the FBI are looking at you on your way out, you need a lawyer. Quickly.

don't break the small laws

Timmy McVeigh, the bright lad who blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building, got caught because _his vehicle did not have a license plate_. An Oklahoma State policeman spotted Timmy driving down the highway without proper plates, stopped him, and then noticed that Timmy had a pistol under his jacket. The statie dropped Timmy-boy's ass in stir for the moving violation and carrying a concealed firearm without a license. Two or three days later they realised what they'd caught. If Timmy had simply bothered to get even a fake license plate he'd have not have been stopped. If he'd simply not have felt the need to carry a gun, he'd just have got a ticket for the missing license plate. If he hadn't been sitting in stir when the staties finally got around to looking at the wanted posters, he'd have been back home with the rest of his survivalist pals and US.gov would have had to send in the army, or at least the local National Guard, to dig him out. The body count would almost certainly have been quite interesting.

But, no, Timmy-boy just had to show his contempt for the law by driving without license plates.

Re: Apperently...

It _is_ an offence to lie to a Fed. It's a felony all on its lonesome, worth five years in a Federal pen. That's why they tend to move in pairs: one for you to lie to, and one to be a witness to the lie. <http://www.federalcriminallawyer.us/2010/12/17/truth-and-falsity-in-federal-prosecutions-for-making-a-false-statement/>.

Basically. 'cause he lied to them, and they can prove that he lied, they can lock him up for up to five years even if they can't prove anything else.

This is why when Feds come knocking, your first and last words should be "I want my lawyer." Do not confirm or deny anything. Just repeat "I want my lawyer."

Lying to non-Fed law enforcement is not a felony... yet.

Re: Education is how you LOCK THEM IN

Of course. No-one else uses WP now-a-days.

Re: Education is how you LOCK THEM IN

I can't get LO to open WP 12 documents and have them display properly. I've given up trying. And the persons who use WP 12 will not move to another platform, they like WPO. I personally don't give a damn, except that personal experience says that LO will NOT open all other word processing formats. I've got three WP files which won't open in LO sitting on a thumb drive on my desk. And all the downvotes in the world will not change that simple fact.

Of course, maybe I'm just Doing it Wrong. As I asked, perhaps someone can share the secret handshake with me?

Re: Education is how you LOCK THEM IN

Look. Eadon, you merely make yourself look worse when you burble nonsense like this. MS Office can, and does, read and write the OD formats, and has done so for a _long_ time, and does so with trivial effort. i just did a save-as on a DOCX to ODT which opened just fine in Libre Office. If by 'half-hearted hack' you mean 'can open and write OD files without trouble', well...

And, as for Libre Office 'opening and saving in any word processing format you like'... I don't see how to make it open, for example, a Word Perfect file. Perhaps you could enlighten me on this?

There are reasons in plenty for not using MS Office. Use real reasons, don't make up stuff which can be disproved in _seconds_.

Re: My 10.8.2/Win 8 machine impossible...

"In addition, the following....errrr..."bugs" have not been removed.

- The styling of contacts, notes and reminders is still "broken". ie not the same as the OS"

Errr.. what on Earth are you on about? The Leather Queen of Phobus idiocy or something else?

"- The Game centre still....errr...exists."

Not on any of _my_ machines. Drag to Trash, empty Trash, problem gone.

"- Launchpad still...exists"

See Game Center, above.

"- Airdrop still...exists"

Not on my machines. Getting rid of it was slightly more difficult than dumping Game Center & Launchpad, but took a matter of seconds.

"- mission control is transparently still f*ed. It has to be, to look like that."

Errr... no.

"- Full screen is still a mess"

Which is why I never use it.

"- Language preferences still a mess (i have a system half in english and half in german...awesome)"

I have a system with English (US), English (UK), French, and Spanish... 'cause I want it that way. Life in Deepest South Florida, don'tyaknow.

"- "Versions" is a still a mess in all but textedit."

Now, _this_ I agree with.

"Obviously! hates Apple more than Eadon hates MS. Discuss."

Obviouslky! _is_ Eadon. Discuss.

Re: Broder responds to Tesla Data ..

Errm... I certainly can't see anything which looks as though it might be a 'supercharger' anywhere near the two points marked on the map as having 'superchargers'. And that pic appears to have been taken in broad daylight. Was it taken _before_ the devices were installed?

There appear to be lights over to one side of one of the alleged locations of the chargers, and behind the other location. Exactly how much light would be available at night is unclear. One set of lights appear to be high-intensity sodium vapor lamps (at least, that what similar light stands on I-95 down here in Florida carry, I've never set foot in Connecticut and have no idea how they do their highway illumination). If they are, in fact, sodium vapor lamps, then one of the charges is on the edge of a bright, yellowish light, and might indeed be difficult to see depending on the angle of view and its paint job... which I don't know about as the charge doesn't seem to be visible in the pic. Perhaps someone could supply an image of what it looks like?

And, oh, one of the chargers (if it is, in fact, in the location marked, I don't know 'cause it doesn't show up in the pic) appears to be in a position which would, in fact, be quite difficult to see if approached from the left, though it would be easily visible (if it were there...) if approached from the right. From which direction was Mr. Broder approaching?

Re: Just to gratuitously poke a stick at a sleeping fanboi

"I'm off to see if I can enrage a tribe of penguins."

Easily done. Wave a Samsung laptop at them.

Re: Same S---, Different Day

Eadon, is that you?

Re: Get outta here!

Interesting. Fox, eh? And here I was under the impression that it was CBS which was carrying the game. Wait... it _was_ CBS.

ice giants

here's one: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Andrei_Kirilenko_in_2011.jpg>

looks as though Odin needs to get back to work.

Re: DO NOT CALL lists Do Work - especially with a large FINE!

No they don't. I put both my cell phones onto the do not call list. I still get lots of sales calls on them. Indeed, I just got a call from 720-315-7898 (hey, spammers, call them!) trying to sell me some kind of insurance. Yes, they know that the phone is on the DNC list. No, they don't care.

Your little trick is highly unlikely to work with a cell phone.

Re: Figured it was only a matter of time...

Ah. I was unaware that GW and GDW had already crossed paths. This makes things even better.